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Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 02:56 AM
We already have the thread about hair, but that one is much more focused on one style and not hair in general.

Hair is one of those things that are often overlooked when it comes to a culture, so I was wondering about other peoples views on their hair. Is it just hair, an additional way to express your creativity, or a way you express your culture?

For me, my hair isn't just hair. It's part an expression of freedom and creativity, and part an expression of pride in my heritage. I love being mixed, that my father's family is predominantly Black. I love that my maternal grandfather was half Indian and maternal grandmother is mostly Jewish. Twisting my hair, braiding it up, pressing it once in a blue moon and letting my Khmer cousins style it in traditionally Khmer styles if they want. I love doing all that stuff. Right now it's in the first wash n go I've worn since Christmas, and I'm loving my fro.

Pull up a chair, and lets talk hair.

kuwisdelu
02-16-2015, 04:15 AM
Hair is definitely important to me culturally. As many probably know, when Native Americans children were forcibly sent to boarding schools, the idea was to "kill the Indian, save the [white] man". The goal was erasure of culture, which included taking our names, taking our language, taking our clothes, and, yes, taking our hair. Hair is significant in many Native cultures, so part of erasing our cultures meant cutting our hair, usually by force.

I don't usually wear my own hair as long as traditional styles, but having longer hair is important to me. It helps remind me of who I am when I'm far from home.

One of my friends who is black has recently stopped straightening her hair, and is really excited about growing it out and embracing her natural hair. It's empowering to reclaim who you are from who society expects you to be.

Even outside of culture, many people use hair as more than an expression of creativity. Many people cut their hair to mark break-ups, new chapters in their lives, and other big changes.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 06:43 AM
One of my friends who is black has recently stopped straightening her hair, and is really excited about growing it out and embracing her natural hair. It's empowering to reclaim who you are from who society expects you to be.

I know how your friend feels, Kuwi. When I first started growing out my natural hair, it was really exciting. It still excites me, because there's a myth that Black hair doesn't grow inside and outside the community. It's not nice, but I like to stretch my hair out fully to show people they're wrong when they say that and respond to Black people who say it's because my mom is white, by pointing out fully Black naturals with hair both looser than and equally long as mine. Wearing my hair long and natural has been empowering for me made me more comfortable about who I am in other ways as well.

Though I've got to say, 90% of what backlash I've received in regards to my hair has been from Black or Hispanic people instead of other groups. And being asked when I'm going to 'do' my hair IE. get it relaxed or pressed, makes me give people a major stink eye. Even my own brother gets that look from me when he asks that and now stipulates that he means braiding and not relaxing.

C.bronco
02-16-2015, 06:59 AM
I am sorry, and I don't mean to derail, but whenever I think of POC, I think Pen Of Choice while rooting through the pens in the mug on my desk, and trying to find the ergonomic one.

Feel free to ignore me. I just had to share. It took me awhile to figure out what PoC meant initially, and that is clearly my shortcoming. You are free to make fun of me at will.

Fruitbat
02-16-2015, 07:39 AM
Okay, Bronco, I will make fun of you!

Um, are you bucking?

Sorry, that's all I got.

Hair. Hmm. I wish I had more of it. I guess that's all.

*slinks away*

C.bronco
02-16-2015, 08:03 AM
Okay, Bronco, I will make fun of you!

Um, are you bucking?

Sorry, that's all I got.

Hair. Hmm. I wish I had more of it. I guess that's all.

*slinks away*I respect that.

Putputt
02-16-2015, 08:23 AM
There isn't really a traditional day-to-day hairstyle in either of my cultures (Chinese and Indonesian), that I know of, but this is a really interesting thread! I didn't even know what "relaxing" meant until I Googled it. :) Lillith, in your profile pic, is that your natural hair? It's really pretty.

As an aside, I've always wanted hair that goes beyond my bewbs, but it never gets long enough before it starts getting all nasty and split-endy and I have to go for a trim.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 08:33 AM
There isn't really a traditional day-to-day hairstyle in either of my cultures (Chinese and Indonesian), that I know of, but this is a really interesting thread! I didn't even know what "relaxing" meant until I Googled it. :) Lillith, in your profile pic, is that your natural hair? It's really pretty.

As an aside, I've always wanted hair that goes beyond my bewbs, but it never gets long enough before it starts getting all nasty and split-endy and I have to go for a trim.

Thanks! Yes‚ that is my natural hair braided in 14 chunky braids and allowed to dry before being taken down. My actual curl pattern is pencil and smaller sized curls.

Putt, have you tried just trimming an inch off and then tucking your hair away in some form or fashion? Or looked into changing your products? Once hair ges a certain length it tends to rub on everything and that partially is the cause of splits, getting the ends off of stuff and keeping them moisturized has been known to help people of almost every hair type combo grow their hair if they want to.

Putputt
02-16-2015, 08:41 AM
Aaand I just had to Google "pencil curls". :D I am a total hair noob. I love the blonde highlights you got too. *considers getting highlights...* NO IT WILL ONLY MAKE MORE HAIR FALL OUT, STOP IT, SELF.

kuwisdelu
02-16-2015, 08:44 AM
There isn't really a traditional day-to-day hairstyle in either of my cultures (Chinese and Indonesian), that I know of, but this is a really interesting thread!

Perhaps not today, but hair certainly played a significant role in Chinese history (http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/features.php?searchterm=027_queue.inc&issue=027).

Putputt
02-16-2015, 08:51 AM
Perhaps not today, but hair certainly played a significant role in Chinese history (http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/features.php?searchterm=027_queue.inc&issue=027).

I could be wrong, but that's mostly for men, right? I don't think I've ever seen or read about women wearing that. But yeah, there is quite a heartbreaking history on the Chinese queue. I think my friends and I were all very mystefied learning about it in elementary school. We'd just assumed that it was, you know, just a hair style.

kuwisdelu
02-16-2015, 08:58 AM
But yeah, there is quite a heartbreaking history on the Chinese queue. I think my friends and I were all very mystefied learning about it in elementary school. We'd just assumed that it was, you know, just a hair style.

That's the thing. Hair is rarely just hair. ;)

Chris P
02-16-2015, 09:00 AM
Interesting topic, Lilith! I wasn't sure what you were getting at when you posted the idea in the Sloppy Joe thread, to be honest. (Oh, and the hair in your profile pic is gorgeous!)

Being ethnically and socioeconomically part of the "mainstream" in this country, I never thought of my hair being a cultural expression, but it certainly is! In college in the late 80s and early 90s, I grew it out about halfway down my back as part of the partyer/college student/hard rock enthusiast look. Several of my friends did the same, and in new social situations I gravitated toward the people with similar hair (as well as clothing, etc.). We all used it for cultural identity. I was going to let it grow all through grad school, but it looked like grad school wasn't going to happen for a while, so I chopped it off to look for a job. Gotta look mainstream, dontcha know :) I cut it on a Saturday, that Monday I got my grad school acceptance letter!

I kept it to the longer end of short until my mid 30s. It was clearly falling out (damn you genetics!) long before, and people told me I should just buzz it all off. I didn't because I was afraid I would look like a skinhead, and that was definitely a culture I didn't want to be identified with. At that time (early 00s) only guys over 45 or so buzzed. Younger ones just looked angry all the time. But now that I'm in my 40s, I think it looks good buzzed, and buzz it every ten days or so. And yeah, it fits the work culture I'm hoping to get a job in, although lots of guys with horseshoes do let theirs grow. It just looks horrible on me.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 09:13 AM
Ol
That's the thing. Hair is rarely just hair. ;)

I agree. How we care for it, what we use on it, and how we style it can be influenced by our cultural backround/ethnicity. Considering how much people spend on their hair, I always raise an eyebrow at people thinking it's just hair.

Chris: Thank you for the compliment! I put a lot of time into my mane, and I enjoy hearing that it shows.

Chris P
02-16-2015, 09:17 AM
When I lived in Uganda, my skin color identified my culture more than my hair did, especially since Ugandan men buzz their heads too. But the funny part was, I had to go to three different village barbers before I could find one who could buzz my head. The others all left it too long. The first one took over an hour because she didn't understand how Caucasian hair lays ("soft hair" they called it) and couldn't get the clippers to cut right. I tried to explain to her to start at the neck and go upward, but she couldn't figure out what I meant. She left it too long because the myth over there is that white skin is delicate so she was afraid to cut it without the clipper guard on. Of course in the cities with lots of expats they do just fine; the village was another matter. But I got so frustrated. I'd see all these Ugandan men running around with shaved heads and couldn't figure why they couldn't do mine the same way.

Arm and leg hair is another story. Ugandans are not hairy people, and when I would be riding my bike in shorts, children would sometimes literally throw themselves on the ground and stroke my leg hair when I stopped. One day in church two teenage girls started tugging on my arm hairs. I just smiled and let them. No harm in their curiosity.

backslashbaby
02-16-2015, 09:37 AM
My actual hair is a dark-brown-auburn mix of Native American and that curly red Celtic sort, both from my mom's side of the family. My maternal grandfather and grandmother were both mixed-blood (different tribes). I got the hair, hand/nails and eye color of my mother and her NA Muscogee/ white Scots-Irish-Lumbee dad. My Lumbee family was 'white', but don't get me started on that, lol. Suffice it to say that I'm also part African-American from the Lumbee parts, white skin or no. (They are a mix of 3 races, for ages now).

So... I do like the traditional native styles best, because my hair looks best that way and I know that it's also cultural even if my white skin gives little clue of that for other people. We (Muscogee) have a few religious/cultural hair things we do for funerals and 'superstitions', too, and those are very important to me.

OTOH, I do have to straighten and oil it to get it to look like that. Mine is actually quite curly and large. I relate to mixed-race Black girls most on my hair and probably always will. I use Black products, because they fit my hair so well. If I could only get generic white or Black hairdressers to believe me when I say that instead of still picking 'white girl' products. It always ends a mess at the salon when they don't listen :D

There are very curly-haired fully white girls who should be the same, but their product suggestions just never work for mine. So I don't know what my hair is, but it's certainly a blend of cultures, lol. Between me and it, it's NA, white and Black. I swear we need a Creole line of hair products and that would simplify a lot.

I can't get away with a large pseudo-afro, though, being white :( I wish I could, just because that's my hairs' natural state and it looks cool to me. I bet I could get away with it in Brazil or somewhere where they have mixes more like mine.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 09:39 AM
When I lived in Uganda, my skin color identified my culture more than my hair did, especially since Ugandan men buzz their heads too. But the funny part was, I had to go to three different village barbers before I could find one who could buzz my head. The others all left it too long. The first one took over an hour because she didn't understand how Caucasian hair lays ("soft hair" they called it) and couldn't get the clippers to cut right. I tried to explain to her to start at the neck and go upward, but she couldn't figure out what I meant. She left it too long because the myth over there is that white skin is delicate so she was afraid to cut it without the clipper guard on. Of course in the cities with lots of expats they do just fine; the village was another matter. But I got so frustrated. I'd see all these Ugandan men running around with shaved heads and couldn't figure why they couldn't do mine the same way.

Arm and leg hair is another story. Ugandans are not hairy people, and when I would be riding my bike in shorts, children would sometimes literally throw themselves on the ground and stroke my leg hair when I stopped. One day in church two teenage girls started tugging on my arm hairs. I just smiled and let them. No harm in their curiosity.

My uncle owns a barber shop, and I have noticed him cut kinky/nappy hair in a slightly different way than looser hair types. He can get any head of hair shaved if someone comes in to see him, he just adjusts how to suit his clients. If I ever go back to a short fro, I would go to him. It sounds to me like a good chunk of your problwm was the white skin being delicate myth, because they couldn't get close enough if they were freaked out about hurting you.

J.S.F.
02-16-2015, 03:29 PM
At my age, I'm surprised that I have any hair left. That's all I really have to offer to this conversation. :D

However, while I think that hair is an important expression of who you are (culture, race, or both) I'm going to toss in a potential derail and offer that if a person who is not a PoC wears a hairstyle that is something like what a PoC's traditional style might be like--and if it's done in good taste (subjective, I know)--then it should not be censured.

I know this is going to open up a can of cultural whoop-ass on me, but I think that if the hairstyle is done out of respect and consultation with a PoC as opposed to doing it in order to make a statement, then should that person who is not a PoC be made to change it? This is an honest question from a white guy who's allegedly privileged.

Putputt
02-16-2015, 03:34 PM
There's like an entire thread on that subject, JSF. Here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302220)it is.

I for one would much rather this thread be focused on hair and its role in different cultures instead of devolving into a "why can't white people wear this or that hairstyle" debate.

Kylabelle
02-16-2015, 03:49 PM
There's like an entire thread on that subject, JSF. Here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302220)it is.

I for one would much rather this thread be focused on hair and its role in different cultures instead of devolving into a "why can't white people wear this or that hairstyle" debate.

I believe that was the OP's intention too, as a way to explore further what is really an intriguing area of human expression.

I've been feeling quite bereft, in fact, that my white background lacks all hints of cultural or ethnic hair treatment. But, I have dredged up one thing from my earlier research into a different topic, that of spiritual roots and indigenous religion. I looked, at a certain stage, for what that might be for Western European heritage.

As regards hair, I learned that in the Earth-based pagan religions, hair was felt to be a connection to spirit, and if one left one's hair long and loose, it served almost as connecting cords to spirit. Binding up one's hair was to cut off that connection. This may be part of the background source for some of the more severe hairstyles that developed among Christian Protestants, Puritans, etc.

Personally, I have always longed for thicker, curlier hair, as I have that thin straight fine hair that becomes filled with static in cold dry weather. Drives me bonkers. The spirits will have to wait because my hair is bound until another season! :D

Ken
02-16-2015, 04:49 PM
... black girl; high school. Went to JHS with her too. One day she decided to stop shaving her legs. Kinda apparent as wore short skirts. Cheerleader. Rocking bod. Very independent too. Did her own thing and was much respected. There was some mumbling and snide remarks about her stubbly gams but outside of that that was that. Goes to show that if you are confident and self-assured you can do your own thing. Cool. Wish I had those traits. Shave mine regularly :o

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 06:56 PM
Aaand I just had to Google "pencil curls". :D I am a total hair noob. I love the blonde highlights you got too. *considers getting highlights...* NO IT WILL ONLY MAKE MORE HAIR FALL OUT, STOP IT, SELF.

Putputt, I mentioned this earlier but would like give it it's own post.

I believe that baring health concerns and genetics, anyone can grow their hair to whichever length they want. It's all about doing what your hair wants you to do. I wash my hair once a week, keep it stretched 80% of the time, wear it out of the way in some manner 75% of the time whether left to shrink or worn stretched, moisturize and seal my hair daily etc. My hair loves it. I think you just need to find out what works for your hair in terms of growing it out.


Back on the cultural aspect type of thing. The Black community spends a lot of money on hair products. But I feel like a lot of Black people have some major misconceptions about our hair. I've had people ask me why my hair is so kinky when my younger sister has looser hair then mine, how I got my hair so long, how I got my hair pattern. And that's all come from the Black community and not outside it. In my opinion, it comes from mimicing white people for so long when it comes to how we style and care for our hair. Kids will wear pony puffs, twists, fros etc. and it's thought of as cute. But that tends to go out the window around puberty, and people seem to forget how to care for their hair once they relax or texturize it. Texturized and relaxed hair I've noticed, tends to be treated as "white" hair (I can't tell you how much I hate the whole white hair myth. My grandmother was predominantly Jewish, her hair was curly and she had enough hair for 3 people. There's no damn thing as "white people hair!"). Which ends up with people speaking palitudes about how "Black hair don't grow." Nuh uh, it grows. Trust and believe it does. It isn't your hair, it's you not taking care of it properly. Relaxers every month is damaging, especially when silly people think you have to double and septuple process already relaxed hair. It's your hair breaking off for lack of protein and moisture, or you ripping a comb through it from root to tip and flatironing it all the time.

Chris P
02-16-2015, 07:21 PM
I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to. The manufacturers are responding to a market need after all, although all manufacturers would like to create their own market need.

My (WASP) daughter and I were shopping for hair products one day. She picked up one and I pointed out the text on the can "for women of color." She grabbed her raspberry-tinted locks and said "Hell-OOO! Color!"

ap123
02-16-2015, 07:38 PM
I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to.

I'm not sure what the difference is, but there definitely is one. My middle guy's hair is mostly straight (one kinky patch in the back that we thought would spread and become the afro my husband had when he had hair, but no, remained that one little patch), but very, very thick. I'm pretty sure you could string a guitar with his hairs. ;) In any case, the shampoos/conditioners that work for his hair are designed for Black hair. It took us too long to figure that out, doesn't matter if it's Suave, Pantene, or Frederic Fekkai, products for "white" hair don't work for him.

It also makes a difference when getting your hair done that the hairdresser have experience with your type of hair texture. My hair is neither straight nor curly, one big frizz bomb. I once let a friend talk me into going to her hairdresser, Chinese man in Chinatown, all Asian customers. Took him hours to blow and straighten my hair. The Dominican ladies up the street can have my hair done in under 15 minutes. :Shrug:

Someone told me recently about a product that's kind of like hair dye without the color, adds shine and weighs it down to minimize frizz--has anyone tried this?

Putputt
02-16-2015, 07:55 PM
Putputt, I mentioned this earlier but would like give it it's own post.

I believe that baring health concerns and genetics, anyone can grow their hair to whichever length they want. It's all about doing what your hair wants you to do. I wash my hair once a week, keep it stretched 80% of the time, wear it out of the way in some manner 75% of the time whether left to shrink or worn stretched, moisturize and seal my hair daily etc. My hair loves it. I think you just need to find out what works for your hair in terms of growing it out.

Hmm, it might be genetics, because my mom's hair has thinned a lot over the years. She gets treatment for it now though, so it's grown more again. I wash my hair every other day. That's the longest I can go without shampooing it before the scalp gets too greasy for me to bear. I only shampoo the scalp though, not the entire length of the hair. I condition the ends and after rinsing, I put coconut oil on the ends. It hasn't really helped with the split ends. :-/ I will try what you said about tying the ends to help with the friction. That does make sense.

I've never heard of the Black hair doesn't grow thing. Weird that there's even that misconception. Of course it grows, how else would it get long??

Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.

ap123
02-16-2015, 08:02 PM
Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.

The product recommended for me? No, it isn't shampoo, it's a product applied by the hairdresser, coats the hair, I think it's supposed to last about 8 weeks.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 09:13 PM
Hmm, it might be genetics, because my mom's hair has thinned a lot over the years. She gets treatment for it now though, so it's grown more again. I wash my hair every other day. That's the longest I can go without shampooing it before the scalp gets too greasy for me to bear. I only shampoo the scalp though, not the entire length of the hair. I condition the ends and after rinsing, I put coconut oil on the ends. It hasn't really helped with the split ends. :-/ I will try what you said about tying the ends to help with the friction. That does make sense.

I've never heard of the Black hair doesn't grow thing. Weird that there's even that misconception. Of course it grows, how else would it get long??

Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.

What are you using for shampoo and conditioner? My hair hates silicones and sulfates so I just don't use them. I've found that sulfate/silicone free shampoos and conditioners are what my hair likes best. Maybe your hair thinks like mine?



Someone told me recently about a product that's kind of like hair dye without the color, adds shine and weighs it down to minimize frizz--has anyone tried this?

Is it prepared or a powder? Because I hear cassia is good for weighing hair down, and it doesn't show color unless your hair is white-blonde.

Rachel77
02-16-2015, 10:09 PM
*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

Lillith1991
02-16-2015, 11:06 PM
*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

Have you ever considered it may be the products you're using that are making it mat? Or maybe it's your strand thickness and density that's an issue? Also, some just have to cleanse and style daily in order to get the results they want. There's nothing wrong with that. I had to when my hair was really short. As it got longer, the weight made some of the tangles that came from it twirling around each other diminish. My Jewish grandmothers hair was similar in the way it demanded to be cared for compared to mine, only difference is mine is kinky-curly and hers wasn't.

Chris P
02-16-2015, 11:22 PM
It also makes a difference when getting your hair done that the hairdresser have experience with your type of hair texture. My hair is neither straight nor curly, one big frizz bomb. I once let a friend talk me into going to her hairdresser, Chinese man in Chinatown, all Asian customers. Took him hours to blow and straighten my hair. The Dominican ladies up the street can have my hair done in under 15 minutes. :Shrug:

Another cute daughter story tangentially related to hair: When she graduated high school, she wanted to go to beauty school. She was all excited that there was a Paul Mitchell school in Memphis. If you have a certificate from there, you can do the $200 haircuts.

"But I won't go there," she later decided. "They don't teach you how to do Black hair."

I was all proud of my colorblind, ready-to-stick-up-for-what's-right little girl and pass up a prestigious education credential.

"I live in Mississippi!" she said. "That's half my business gone!"

Well, okay, my entrepreneurial little girl.

backslashbaby
02-16-2015, 11:39 PM
*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

You might want to try Black products! My hairdressers (Black and white) see my white skin and never suggest what works best, unless they just cover it with silicone and take a flat iron to it. That looks nice for a few hours, but it doesn't help in reality with our humidity here, lol. I use several products, but start with Pantene's shampoo and conditioners for relaxed hair or Black-natural (in the brown bottles).

That ties in to this question:

I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to. The manufacturers are responding to a market need after all, although all manufacturers would like to create their own market need.

My (WASP) daughter and I were shopping for hair products one day. She picked up one and I pointed out the text on the can "for women of color." She grabbed her raspberry-tinted locks and said "Hell-OOO! Color!"

'White' curly hair still doesn't usually have the same texture as Black (or Jewish?) curly hair, so the Black products have a lot more conditioners in them. On 'white' hair, it weights them down too much or they can even look greasy. Curly and greasy is not a good look, so 'white' curly products are just lighter.

If your hair is thick enough and dry (no grease problems) enough to need more oils, the 'white' products take the whole bottle at best :D

There were/are some 'white' products that involve a lot of hold (like hairspray hold) that can look good, but they feel awful to the touch.

With 'Black' products I can have curls (or straight locks) that feel good, too. But your hair has to take in the conditioners or it'll look greasy and silly ;)



Does anyone else with hair like that find that their hair naturally straightens after a day or two, btw? I end up curly (natural)-to-wavy (if twisted) after a wash and then have traditional NDN-looking hair the next days with no flat iron. If I did go with a long fro, it would turn native by the end of the week :ROFL:

Sam Argent
02-16-2015, 11:55 PM
I wear my hair relaxed because I like it long, and in my case, wearing it natural only leaves me with bald patches. Hair breaks off usually because you're not taking care of it, which I am not capable of doing daily with a bad back, wrists, and elbows. It's weird. My hair without relaxer is kinky, but the curls aren't super tight and still mat like a mofo no matter what product I used. This led to a string of hairstyles and beauty shops when I was a kid to find a way to stop my hair from breaking. Braids were my first attempt, and I loved them. Unfortunately, they take a full friggin work shift to put in my hair and having them put in was like a thousand purple nurples on my scalp. Next was the s-curl that while wasn't a lot of maintenance, I became known as the Black Curly Sue at school. Then there was the close cut that I loathed. I know there were other styles, but relaxing my hair came last.

This is why I'm kind of bothered by people who assume that whenever they see straightened hair, it's because that person is ashamed of having a natural hair style. I'm not saying that about anyone in this thread, but it's something that I hear a lot. I've seen the discrimination against natural hair in media and the dumb school dress codes that place unfair hair restrictions on PoC, so I do understand the pride that comes with choosing personal hair styles. It's just feels like something else that other people don't consider health restrictions and think daily hair regiments are the easiest things in the world.

Rachel77
02-17-2015, 12:07 AM
Have you ever considered it may be the products you're using that are making it mat?

Leave-in hair conditioner is really all I use these days. It's always been like this, regardless of what products I've tried.


Or maybe it's your strand thickness and density that's an issue? Also, some just have to cleanse and style daily in order to get the results they want. There's nothing wrong with that. I had to when my hair was really short. As it got longer, the weight made some of the tangles that came from it twirling around each other diminish. My Jewish grandmothers hair was similar in the way it demanded to be cared for compared to mine, only difference is mine is kinky-curly and hers wasn't.

My hair is fairly thick, and the strands themselves are very light, so it's generally cloud-like. I think that's why it mats so easily; it's so light that it's hard to keep the strands from twirling around each other, and once I've slept on it, the tangles get fierce. (It's Bernadette Peters-type hair. It's light enough that it's still very curly even when it's long.)

I've actually found that washing it once a week or so helps with the frizz; I used to wash it every other day, and it got very dry.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 12:14 AM
I wear my hair relaxed because I like it long, and in my case, wearing it natural only leaves me with bald patches. Hair breaks off usually because you're not taking care of it, which I am not capable of doing daily with a bad back, wrists, and elbows. It's weird. My hair without relaxer is kinky, but the curls aren't super tight and still mat like a mofo no matter what product I used. This led to a string of hairstyles and beauty shops when I was a kid to find a way to stop my hair from breaking. Braids were my first attempt, and I loved them. Unfortunately, they take a full friggin work shift to put in my hair and having them put in was like a thousand purple nurples on my scalp. Next was the s-curl that while wasn't a lot of maintenance, I became known as the Black Curly Sue at school. Then there was the close cut that I loathed. I know there were other styles, but relaxing my hair came last.

This is why I'm kind of bothered by people who assume that whenever they see straightened hair, it's because that person is ashamed of having a natural hair style. I'm not saying that about anyone in this thread, but it's something that I hear a lot. I've seen the discrimination against natural hair in media and the dumb school dress codes that place unfair hair restrictions on PoC, so I do understand the pride that comes with choosing personal hair styles. It's just feels like something else that other people don't consider health restrictions and think daily hair regiments are the easiest things in the world.

Yea, I've noticed that too with some of my fellow naturals. Personally I like well cared for hair, and I absolutely love seeing well cared for relaxed hair even though I love my natural hair. But in all fairness, I think some of the negativity comes from people saying they CANT wear it natural when they mean they don't want to. You know the people I'm talking about, they dislike natural hair but moan and complain about awful their relaxed hair looks. They'll make any excuse under the sun for why they could never be natural, but won't do what their relaxed hair needs to thrive. Some naturals just wrongly assume every relaxed person is like that, and quite wrongly. Far as I'm concerned, if the hair looks healthy while relaxed and I don't hear any foolishness from the person, I just assume that it's just how they like their hair.

Hell, I still look at relaxed head vids on youtube even though I've been natural 7 years and give hums of approval when watching someone apply product only to their newgrowth. I just love Black hair in general, don't matter to me if it's relaxed or not.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 12:23 AM
Leave-in hair conditioner is really all I use these days. It's always been like this, regardless of what products I've tried.

My hair is fairly thick, and the strands themselves are very light, so it's generally cloud-like. I think that's why it mats so easily; it's so light that it's hard to keep the strands from twirling around each other, and once I've slept on it, the tangles get fierce. (It's Bernadette Peters-type hair. It's light enough that it's still very curly even when it's long.)

I've actually found that washing it once a week or so helps with the frizz; I used to wash it every other day, and it got very dry.

Oh, my sister has hair that's slightly similar. It's only a little bit tighter than what you described and medium as supposed to thick. Do you like your hair more controled or do you like it a bit more wild?

Rachel77
02-17-2015, 01:25 AM
'White' curly hair still doesn't usually have the same texture as Black (or Jewish?) curly hair, so the Black products have a lot more conditioners in them. On 'white' hair, it weights them down too much or they can even look greasy. Curly and greasy is not a good look, so 'white' curly products are just lighter.


That's been my experience with Black hair care products, unfortunately; they do make my hair look/feel greasy. I don't mind that they weigh my hair down (there are times when I imagine tying little weights onto my hair to keep it from flying around), but they're meant for hair with a different texture.


Oh, my sister has hair that's slightly similar. It's only a little bit tighter than what you described and medium as supposed to thick. Do you like your hair more controled or do you like it a bit more wild?

Definitely controlled! It's why I started ironing it straight; it's much better behaved that way.

I have discovered that manually curling my hair when it's wet -- taking a few locks at a time and twisting them to encourage the curl, and then letting them air dry -- works well for controlled curls. But because I have to brush it out every morning to avoid mats, I have to then sit there on subsequent mornings and twirl little locks back into shape or they'll frizz out. It gets boring very quickly, which is why I've lately taken to ironing my hair straight. It's still boring, but I only have to do it once after my hair's dry.

Looking at this, "because it gets boring very quickly" seems to be a major factor for me with my hair. I've had people with straight hair tell me they wish they had natural curls, and I'm always like, "You have no idea how much time it takes to maintain curly hair."

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 01:37 AM
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 02:27 AM
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

*thinks*

You said it is fine, straight, and smooth. But poofy to me sounds like it is one of those inbetween types, the sort between straight and wavy hair. Maybe leave in conditioner and oil to seal it would help. I can dig up some info if you want, Kuwi?

backslashbaby
02-17-2015, 03:40 AM
You might just have so much of it that it's thick that way (that's how you recognize my mom's side of the family at funerals, lol.) Garnier used to make a tub of paste that was nice for that. I forget what it's called, but it's a bit waxy and you just use a bit to weigh the hair down and do nothing else, basically.

A light oil could work, too, but if yours is naturally straight and fine, it could look like you have product (oil) on it.

Viridian
02-17-2015, 04:26 AM
@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 05:15 AM
@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

Well, I'm not so sure about the showering less part. We tend to wet our hair less, but that's what showering caps are for. I only wash my hair 1x a week but I let the steam work it's magic during my showers the rest of the week. Only difference between a regular day and wash day is that wash day means my head gets soaked.

Rachel77
02-17-2015, 05:49 AM
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Seconding ViridianChick's suggestion to condition it every time you wash it, if you're not already doing that.

When my hair has that poofiness, it's generally because it's overly dry; from what you've said about how you like it post-workout, it sounds like that might be part of your issue, as well. I used to wash it every other day, and even with the conditioner, I was constantly battling poofiness. I'm still battling poofiness in that it inherently likes to float, but switching to washing it once a week helped a lot (it really didn't need to be washed every other day).

Out of curiosity, what do the stylists do when you ask them to thin it out? (For me, that means adding layers, but I don't know what they do with guys.)

C.bronco
02-17-2015, 06:15 AM
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Let me know if you find something. I have fine, straight hair that never frizzed until I moved to this warm, humid climate, and will try anything to get me through April though October.

Viridian
02-17-2015, 06:18 AM
Well, I'm not so sure about the showering less part. We tend to wet our hair less, but that's what showering caps are for. I only wash my hair 1x a week but I let the steam work it's magic during my showers the rest of the week. Only difference between a regular day and wash day is that wash day means my head gets soaked.
I've heard men shower more in general. There's actually a couple studies to back it up, but one is German (http://www.blue-responsibility.net/en/sanitaerloesungen/presse/men_shower_more_often_than_women_a_recent_gfk_stud y_on_the_showering_habits_of_germans_on_behalf_of_ blue_responsibility-271.aspx) and the other is from Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/2viykh/how_often_do_you_shower_per_week_on_average/), so take that as you will.

Anyway, yeah, you're right, the important thing is that women wash their hair less. Hair oil is there for a reason. People with short hair can get away with everyday washing if they want, but it's not ideal for long hair.

C.bronco
02-17-2015, 06:20 AM
I do not see that as an option for me. I will not go more than 24 hours without a shower. My hair would not like it either.

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 06:42 AM
*thinks*

You said it is fine, straight, and smooth. But poofy to me sounds like it is one of those inbetween types, the sort between straight and wavy hair. Maybe leave in conditioner and oil to seal it would help. I can dig up some info if you want, Kuwi?

It has a some waviness from the white part, yeah.


@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

I've been trying to treat it like a woman ever since I grew it out, except for the regular trimming (because letting people cut my hair always makes me nervous).

I condition it whenever I shower (unless I'm on vacation or something and don't have conditioner) and used to go several days to a week without washing it.

I do prefer how it looks after a few days without washing, but usually only if I haven't exercised during those days. I don't want it to look sweaty, after all.

Unfortunately, I recently developed a problem with dandruff, so I've needed to start washing it more frequently.

But in general, all the shampoos and conditioners I get are meant for women.


Out of curiosity, what do the stylists do when you ask them to thin it out? (For me, that means adding layers, but I don't know what they do with guys.)

I ask to trim X amount, layer it, and thin it.

Thinning comes after adding the layers, where they use a special scissors that only cuts some of the hair, and comb out the ones that were cut.

It's usually a bit better after thinning it, so I think it's mostly excess volume, and I probably just need to get myself to a salon more often.

Edit: I usually only go 2-3 times a year...

Ken
02-17-2015, 06:47 AM
... sulfur is your friend.

Viridian
02-17-2015, 06:56 AM
@Kuwi: haha! You sound like you have some goddamn healthy hair. I have no idea, then. Good luck.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 06:58 AM
I do not see that as an option for me. I will not go more than 24 hours without a shower. My hair would not like it either.

Why would not washing your hair mean not showering? There's shower caps and just plain ol'fashioned not getting your hair wet if someone doesn't want to wash their hair.

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 06:58 AM
I know I should probably go to the salon more often.

But how do you women keep up with all these things anyway?

I decided to start shaving my legs recently, and it's a pain to keep up...

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 07:07 AM
It has a some waviness from the white part, yeah.

Hmmm. Deffinitly recomend leave-ins and sealing then. Are the conditioners you use more on the heavier side or the lighter one? Because you may actually just need a couple really good conditioner and a few drops of oil to seal once your hair is rinsed. It could also be how often you wash, but I'm not sure. To me it sounds like you wash 1x-2x weekly, so it seems more like a product issue as supposed to overwashing.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 07:12 AM
I know I should probably go to the salon more often.

But how do you women keep up with all these things anyway?

I decided to start shaving my legs recently, and it's a pain to keep up...

If I ever figure it out I'll let you know. I don't do salons, because I'm so picky about my hair. It has to partially be just being use to it, because to me 3 hours for a week of wear isn't all that long. For some it would seem ridiculous though.

Viridian
02-17-2015, 07:16 AM
I know I should probably go to the salon more often.

But how do you women keep up with all these things anyway?

I decided to start shaving my legs recently, and it's a pain to keep up...
I go to my hairdresser and she says, "Oh, you again. I thought you switched salons." And I'm like IT'S ONLY BEEN A FEW MONTHS OKAY.

Some of us quit shaving in the winter. Long pants and all.

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 07:26 AM
Hmmm. Deffinitly recomend leave-ins and sealing then. Are the conditioners you use more on the heavier side or the lighter one? Because you may actually just need a couple really good conditioner and a few drops of oil to seal once your hair is rinsed. It could also be how often you wash, but I'm not sure. To me it sounds like you wash 1x-2x weekly, so it seems more like a product issue as supposed to overwashing.

I used to wash it about 2x weekly. As I mentioned, I wash it a lot more often now, but I've noticed no difference between before and now in terms of how it falls.


I go to my hairdresser and she says, "Oh, you again. I thought you switched salons." And I'm like IT'S ONLY BEEN A FEW MONTHS OKAY.

Some of us quit shaving in the winter. Long pants and all.

I don't own a single pair of shorts because I think hairy boy legs are ugly. :tongue

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 07:27 AM
Hmmm. Deffinitly recomend leave-ins and sealing then. Are the conditioners you use more on the heavier side or the lighter one? Because you may actually just need a couple really good conditioner and a few drops of oil to seal once your hair is rinsed. It could also be how often you wash, but I'm not sure. To me it sounds like you wash 1x-2x weekly, so it seems more like a product issue as supposed to overwashing.

I'm never really sure what to look for in a conditioner.

The one I'm using now says "nourishing moisture" with aloe vera and avocado.

I think that's good, right? It's also silicone-free.

Putputt
02-17-2015, 07:35 AM
What are you using for shampoo and conditioner? My hair hates silicones and sulfates so I just don't use them. I've found that sulfate/silicone free shampoos and conditioners are what my hair likes best. Maybe your hair thinks like mine?


Um. You're going to scold me, but uh, Pantene. I KNOW I KNOW it's probably terrible. I'll see what else I can find here that are free of sulfates and silicone.

thisprovinciallife
02-17-2015, 07:44 AM
Oooh, a hair thread! I like hair. Has anyone tried Dove's new curly line? I'm a sucker for cute advertisements, but I don't want to waste my money. I haven't looked into whether it's sulfate free.


I know I should probably go to the salon more often.

But how do you women keep up with all these things anyway?

I decided to start shaving my legs recently, and it's a pain to keep up...

I NEVER go to the salon. Once a year, tops. They always charge me like $100 because my hair is a long, thick, hot mess (and I usually leave looking even worse, because they don't know how to style it).

I also shave my legs only *slightly* more than once a year :D

ETA: To answer the OP's question, my hair is a huge part of my cultural identity. I became comfortable with my racial heritage around the same time I learned how to manage my curls (and be proud of them and love them).

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 08:01 AM
I'm never really sure what to look for in a conditioner.

The one I'm using now says "nourishing moisture" with aloe vera and avocado.

I think that's good, right? It's also silicone-free.

It's what I use! I use that and Kiss My Face whenever shampoo, or a cleansing conditioner to wash my hair. Makes a good leave in for me as well, though I'm thinking of trying something designed to be one again. Also makes a good base for deep conditioning btw. I like ayurvedic oils, or coconut to add to it if I need a boost of moisture and slip.

Putputt
02-17-2015, 08:06 AM
Kuwi - leg-shaving is a total frikkin' pain in the ass. I stopped doing that years ago, but luckily my legs are pretty hairless anyway, so nobody's even noticed. Have you tried waxing?

kuwisdelu
02-17-2015, 08:19 AM
It's what I use! I use that and Kiss My Face whenever shampoo, or a cleansing conditioner to wash my hair. Makes a good leave in for me as well, though I'm thinking of trying something designed to be one again. Also makes a good base for deep conditioning btw. I like ayurvedic oils, or coconut to add to it if I need a boost of moisture and slip.

Hmm maybe I should just try leaving some conditioner in my hair then.


Kuwi - leg-shaving is a total frikkin' pain in the ass. I stopped doing that years ago, but luckily my legs are pretty hairless anyway, so nobody's even noticed. Have you tried waxing?

No, waxing sounds a bit scary. I don't even use a real razor, just an electric razor.

Fortunately, my legs and feet are the only parts of my (other than my head) that are hairy.

Lillith1991
02-17-2015, 08:29 AM
Hmm maybe I should just try leaving some conditioner in my hair then.

Deffinitly couldn't hurt. Maybe get a hair oil (silicone free) or something like pure coconut oil to use as a sealer?

backslashbaby
02-18-2015, 01:10 AM
Does it kind of poof like a triangle, Kuwi? In my experience, that really can be just from having a lot of hair. Growing it even longer will help that, too, if that's it.

The product I mentioned is not available any more (Garnier Polishing Wax). You could just use a little on the bottom half of the hair and it kept it from having the excess volume if you didn't try to fluff your hair or anything while you put in on. Maybe it was the hold in it that made it work?

I only use products for hold now on my baby hairs. They are the craziest part of my hair :D I have to use super-hold products to get them to behave. In the sweaty summers, they still boing up and do their own thing :ROFL: I wouldn't mind if all my hair were like that, but it looks silly to have such tight curls only by my forehead!

kuwisdelu
02-18-2015, 01:26 AM
Does it kind of poof like a triangle, Kuwi? In my experience, that really can be just from having a lot of hair. Growing it even longer will help that, too, if that's it.

Yeah. It's probably just from having too much. :tongue

sonywf72
02-18-2015, 01:51 AM
It sounds like you are talking about Cassia or Henna (reddish dye). I did try it for a few months. It loosened the curl pattern in my hair and gave it massive shine but it was very drying and time consuming.

Lillith1991
02-18-2015, 02:44 AM
It sounds like you are talking about Cassia or Henna (reddish dye). I did try it for a few months. It loosened the curl pattern in my hair and gave it massive shine but it was very drying and time consuming.

Did you do a gloss or a full henna, and did you deep condition after? I henna'd for over a year, and I didn't experienc dryness. I deep conditioned after every henna.

C.bronco
02-18-2015, 06:57 AM
My mom likes the John Feida anti frizz spray when she is down south, but her hair is shorter than mine. I usually find a conditioner that works for a short span of time, and then does nothing.

I will keep an eye on this thread for suggestions! It isn't just summer either; it's winter with the dry heat.

backslashbaby
02-18-2015, 07:31 AM
It's the humidity or any moisture that does mine in, so I love the winter, lol. The suggestions I use for myself for frizz are too much for thin hair or hair that isn't frizzycurly, though. I literally use Neutrogena dry body oil on my hair and it works better than any 'heavy-duty' leave in conditioners :)

I have lots of hair, too, and it's courseness varies from coarse to fine. The strands are lots of colors as well (but they blend together en masse). I'm like a calico!

Rachel77
02-18-2015, 10:17 PM
I also shave my legs only *slightly* more than once a year :D

That's about my leg-shaving schedule. I tend to shave in summer, when I want to wear skirts and remember that I haven't shaved in a while. In winter, it's another layer of insulation. :)

Hapax Legomenon
02-24-2015, 03:21 AM
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

I'm wondering if your hair is similar to mine. How long is your hair? My hair is straight when it's short and straight when it's past shoulder length, but in between it goes crazy without intense styling because there's enough hair for there to be a wave to it but not enough weight to weigh it down, and thus it poofs and sticks up at odd angles.

The solution in my case was to either have really long or really short hair. You might decide to style it, but I found it too much of a pain.

kuwisdelu
02-24-2015, 05:14 AM
I'm wondering if your hair is similar to mine. How long is your hair? My hair is straight when it's short and straight when it's past shoulder length, but in between it goes crazy without intense styling because there's enough hair for there to be a wave to it but not enough weight to weigh it down, and thus it poofs and sticks up at odd angles.

Trying to style my hair is pretty futile.

I usually like to wear it medium-length (right at my shoulders).

My hair never sticks out. It just goes out, due to too much volume.

Fruitbat
02-24-2015, 05:17 AM
My husband has too much hair and I don't understand why they can't just transfer some of it to my head. Why wouldn't I be able to carry his hair when I can carry his babies. (the doctor said no way).

Gretad08
02-24-2015, 08:31 AM
Kuwi, try Moroccan oil. My sister owns a salon, so I get to try a ton of products. I have a lot of hair. I'm blonde, and my hair is extremely thick, but fine, if that makes sense. When I use Moroccan oil after a proper blow dry, it just lays better, and has better movement. Plus it smells really good. I recommend getting the good stuff from a salon though. At least a small bottle or a sample to give it a try.

Hapax Legomenon
02-24-2015, 08:39 AM
Kuwi, have you ever had longer hair, though, or would you be willing to try it out? It still may be a matter of weight with your hair. Also, do you blow-dry your hair, or can you try it?

Lillith1991
02-24-2015, 09:26 AM
Kuwi, try Moroccan oil. My sister owns a salon, so I get to try a ton of products. I have a lot of hair. I'm blonde, and my hair is extremely thick, but fine, if that makes sense. When I use Moroccan oil after a proper blow dry, it just lays better, and has better movement. Plus it smells really good. I recommend getting the good stuff from a salon though. At least a small bottle or a sample to give it a try.

And if you're going to get an oil from a salon, please check the ingrediants. I personally perfer oils that are silicone free, something most salon oils aren't.

Sunflowerrei
02-25-2015, 01:24 AM
Have you guys read about whatever Giuliana Skeleton Rancic said about Zendaya's dreads at Oscars? Here's an article (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/zendaya-giuliana-rancic-dreadlocks-dispute-777418) about the whole thing here.

I've been following this thread, but haven't had much to add, and I hadn't heard of Zendaya before this popped up on my homepage this morning, but Zendaya's statement reminded me of the things y'all have been discussing.


"There is already harsh criticism of African American hair in society without the help of ignorant people who choose to judge others based on the curl of their hair. My wearing my hair in locs on an Oscar red carpet was to showcase them in a positive light, to remind people of color that our hair is good enough. To me, locs are a symbol of strength and beauty, almost like a lion's mane."

Putputt
02-25-2015, 07:12 AM
I read something about it on Twitter and went, "Seriously??" Also, lame apology is lame.

Viridian
02-25-2015, 08:49 AM
I've been following this thread, but haven't had much to add, and I hadn't heard of Zendaya before this popped up on my homepage this morning, but Zendaya's statement reminded me of the things y'all have been discussing.
The most I know about Zendaya is she sang that one addictive song (Replay).

Her statement is incredibly mature, though. What a woman.

meowzbark
02-25-2015, 09:42 AM
Kuwi,

My hair is thick, wavy, and prone to frizz; however, straightening my hair seems to cut the 'volume' of my hair by half. I haven't found anything other than straightening that will work with the volume issue my hair has. I tried layers, which made me look like the chick from Dilbert. I tried short hair, which made me look like a poodle. I tried thinning, which made a lot of hair fall to the ground but my hair didn't seem to condense at all.

The major problem with straightening hair is that it will damage your hair fast. I wash + condition, blow dry, and straighten my hair once a week. Going a week between washes seems to repair the damage that the blow drying does to my hair. If I'm feeling lazy (which happens often), I keep my hair in braids between washes.

Also, the longer you wait between hair washes, the more protein can buildup on your ends and the healthier your hair will be. I have to shower every day too, so I keep my hair in a bun so it won't get wet. That and I am way too lazy to re-straighten my hair if the water makes it frizz back up.

I'm overdue for a haircut though. Been almost nine months since my last cut and the current length is tedious to straighten -- about two hours.

BenPanced
02-27-2015, 09:59 PM
The most I know about Zendaya is she sang that one addictive song (Replay).

Her statement is incredibly mature, though. What a woman.
This is probably going to sound horrible but the only thing that shocked me about all of this is a news item revealed Zendaya actually has a last name. Even in this "enlightened" day and age, I am not surprised one iota that somebody is making such ignorant and uninformed comments about somebody else's hair.

backslashbaby
02-28-2015, 12:31 AM
I kind of got the opposite from those stupid comments about Zendaya's hair. I think the E! woman didn't realize Zendaya was Black and was making a hippy joke. It's really stupid nowadays to assume you know someone's racial background without more info than surface looks, so it's still really dumb.

Meanwhile, after looking at all kinds of pictures of her hair, I found my closest celebrity hair twin yet! That is if hers curls or frizzes with humidity (without a shit-ton of product), but I bet it does seeing her curly and less styled pics. I like her curly best :) I wish I knew what she used to have her curls look so great.

Mr Flibble
02-28-2015, 02:40 AM
Kuwi, try Moroccan oil. My sister owns a salon, so I get to try a ton of products. I have a lot of hair. I'm blonde, and my hair is extremely thick, but fine, if that makes sense. When I use Moroccan oil after a proper blow dry, it just lays better, and has better movement. Plus it smells really good. I recommend getting the good stuff from a salon though. At least a small bottle or a sample to give it a try.

Do you mean argan oil?

It is useful for a shit-ton of stuff (good in skin products too, AND it's tasty!) and also -- we visited a place where they make it in Morocco. It was like a collective, and women who are widowed etc and would otherwise not be allowed to work (due to cultural restrictions) help produce it and share in the profits, and so can support their families. So you're helping people too! Well, you are if you get it from them anyway....but our understanding* was this is a common way for those otherwise unable to get an income to...get an income


* They spoke French and Arabic, we speak English and, at best, broken French. But with schoolboy verbs and much sign language...

Lillith1991
02-28-2015, 03:12 AM
I kind of got the opposite from those stupid comments about Zendaya's hair. I think the E! woman didn't realize Zendaya was Black and was making a hippy joke. It's really stupid nowadays to assume you know someone's racial background without more info than surface looks, so it's still really dumb.
t.

I think the E! woman is an idiot if she didn't realize Zendaya was Black or possibly Hispanic, even though the second one would be wrong. Im not much darker than Zendaya is and I'm also mixed, and BOTH Obama and Shemar Moor are mixed and way darker than me or Zendaya. If she mistaked her for anything other than POC of some sort then she obviously doesn't know enough POC, especially mixed White-Black ones.

Gretad08
02-28-2015, 03:16 AM
Do you mean argan oil?

It is useful for a shit-ton of stuff (good in skin products too, AND it's tasty!) and also -- we visited a place where they make it in Morocco. It was like a collective, and women who are widowed etc and would otherwise not be allowed to work (due to cultural restrictions) help produce it and share in the profits, and so can support their families. So you're helping people too! Well, you are if you get it from them anyway....but our understanding* was this is a common way for those otherwise unable to get an income to...get an income


* They spoke French and Arabic, we speak English and, at best, broken French. But with schoolboy verbs and much sign language...

I just checked my bottle. It says Moroccan oil, but the description on the back says Argan oil, made in Israel. So I guess it's the same thing. I LOVE this stuff. It's oil, but doesn't leave your hair greasy, and smells soooo good. My hair is healthier since I started using it. I use a lot of heat on my hair, so I feel like this helps nourish it a bit.

Mr Flibble
02-28-2015, 03:24 AM
I just checked my bottle. It says Moroccan oil, but the description on the back says Argan oil, made in Israel. So I guess it's the same thing. I LOVE this stuff. It's oil, but doesn't leave your hair greasy, and smells soooo good. My hair is healthier since I started using it. I use a lot of heat on my hair, so I feel like this helps nourish it a bit.


No it's (I know this sounds weird) a "dry" oil. Fabulous for so many things -- I'm suffering badly with eczema atm and it really helps. It's really good for your skin

PS as an oil, it tastes really nutty. Scrummy on the breakfasts in Morocco. Nom nom. I think that's a different grade of oil though (could be wrong)

backslashbaby
02-28-2015, 03:32 AM
I think the E! woman is an idiot if she didn't realize Zendaya was Black or possibly Hispanic, even though the second one would be wrong. Im not much darker than Zendaya is and I'm also mixed, and BOTH Obama and Shemar Moor are mixed and way darker than me or Zendaya. If she mistaked her for anything other than POC of some sort then she obviously doesn't know enough POC, especially mixed White-Black ones.

I was thinking she might have thought Latina. Zendaya's hair is so straight in so many pictures that I think she didn't realize that was her hair was quite curly really.and that the hairstyle was no kind of an 'alternative' sort of fashion statement.

The patchouli and weed thing makes me think she was making fun of it as being counter-culture. It can't be counter-culture if she knew she was Black, lol :)

BenPanced
02-28-2015, 09:45 AM
I think the E! woman is an idiot if she didn't realize Zendaya was Black or possibly Hispanic, even though the second one would be wrong. Im not much darker than Zendaya is and I'm also mixed, and BOTH Obama and Shemar Moor are mixed and way darker than me or Zendaya. If she mistaked her for anything other than POC of some sort then she obviously doesn't know enough POC, especially mixed White-Black ones.


I was thinking she might have thought Latina. Zendaya's hair is so straight in so many pictures that I think she didn't realize that was her hair was quite curly really.and that the hairstyle was no kind of an 'alternative' sort of fashion statement.

The patchouli and weed thing makes me think she was making fun of it as being counter-culture. It can't be counter-culture if she knew she was Black, lol :)
She probably thought locs = Rastafarian = weed + patchouli. Because anybody who wears dreadlocks, including white people, are all into de ganja, mon.

Filigree
02-28-2015, 10:11 PM
Argan oil is fabulous for any kind of hair. I have sad old white woman hair, and it's only tamed by Argan oil conditioner.

Viridian
03-01-2015, 01:08 AM
Hey. I'm sure this is a stupid question, but it's bugging me. Someone in another thread said something about how not all black women have kinky hair and it's wrong to assume they do.

They don't? Google has failed me. I know there's a lot of variation when it comes to texture, tightness, and volume, but I didn't realize black women could have naturally straight/wavyhair.

EDIT: or does "kinky" refer to a very specific kind of hair?

Lillith1991
03-01-2015, 03:53 PM
Hey. I'm sure this is a stupid question, but it's bugging me. Someone in another thread said something about how not all black women have kinky hair and it's wrong to assume they do.

They don't? Google has failed me. I know there's a lot of variation when it comes to texture, tightness, and volume, but I didn't realize black women could have naturally straight/wavyhair.

EDIT: or does "kinky" refer to a very specific kind of hair?

Kinky refers to a certain kind of hair, normally extremely tightly curled, waved, or coiled. Think pen spring sized curls, hair that curls individually but doesnt clump together, and really really tight waves that are about 1/10th the size of waves on someone with wavy hair. Sometimes the waves in kinky hair are even tighter. Kinky hair shrinks the most of all hair types.

My hair is kinky-curly, I have a mixture of pencil and pen spring curls. In addition I have some bits of hair that are more the extremely tight waves I described.

As for Black people, because men can have wavey or straight hair too, being able to have straight or wavey hair. Africa is the cradle of humanity, and for tens of thousands of years people have being migrating back to and away from it. The genes for straight hair happens to be slightly more recessive for Africans and the dispora, but it is possible in the way things like blue or green eyes on Black people is. That is to say, rare but not unheard of.

Roxxsmom
04-22-2015, 08:10 AM
This video does a good job (I think) a good job of discussing cultural appropriation of Black culture, including a discussion of hair.

http://www.makers.com/blog/%E2%80%9Chunger-games%E2%80%9D-star-perfectly-explains-cultural-appropriation
(http://www.makers.com/blog/%E2%80%9Chunger-games%E2%80%9D-star-perfectly-explains-cultural-appropriation)

Lillith1991
04-22-2015, 08:41 AM
This video does a good job (I think) a good job of discussing cultural appropriation of Black culture, including a discussion of hair.

http://www.makers.com/blog/%E2%80%9Chunger-games%E2%80%9D-star-perfectly-explains-cultural-appropriation
(http://www.makers.com/blog/%E2%80%9Chunger-games%E2%80%9D-star-perfectly-explains-cultural-appropriation)

Oh my goodness! She is one smart kid. In the thread we had about cornrows I kept trying to get exactly what she was saying across, but it was like people weren't listening because they refused to understand the difference she was talking about.It is 100% a fashion vs culture thing. When I use Indian herbs and oils in my hair, or I henna it. I'm not doing to be fashionable, I'm doing it because it brings me closer to my maternal grandfather's heritage. Same as if I allow my cousins to style my hair in traditional Khmer styles, or when their grandmother taught us traditional dancing. It's a form of respect and connection, and that IS different than just grabbing a part of a culture and deciding it's cool.