Anecdotal information about Nutritional Therapy

Sydneyd

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Hi there!

I'm looking for information regarding nutritional therapy from people who are one, know one, or have been to one. Not so much the info I can get from a quick google or going to about.com, basically I have the following questions:

1. Why did you, or the person you know, choose to go into nutritional therapy (NT) instead of other health and fitness occupations? (OR, without divulging anything personal, why did you seek out the assistance of a NT?)

2. Are there any unique stigmas or stereotypes connected to NT?

3. How widely accepted is the field of NT? Would you say more so among certain groups of people? Locations?

4. Your average work day as an NT.

Thanks for any help, feel free to PM me or answer here if you have answers to these questions or other answers that I haven't thought of asking :D
 

boron

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What exactly do you mean with "nutritional therapy?" Is it like treating diseases that are generally not known to be related to nutrients by nutrients?

Why do you need this info?

Anyway:

1. a I knew few persons who started to read books about "raw food" and they were becoming "convinced" this is the only proper food to eat. The reason was an attempt to "do something right" and find the inner peace after refusing real wisdom available to them at the time.

1.b. Two persons on high political positions, when diagnosed with cancer and uncertain or bad prognosis, started to search the solution in various diets.

2.a. In case of one politician, they made jokes, there were caricatures in newspapers, insults in comments under online news, some understanding...in summary: the "public opinion" is that such things do not work and people who try those diets are stigmatized as childish, insane, irrational, and, if you ask me, I sometimes agree and sometimes do not--it depends...

2.b. Some people who undergo nutritional therapy trigger the stigma themselves by behaving irrationally: it seems they think if they will just start to eat something different and change nothing other in life, all problems will be solved.

3. Nutritional therapy is not well accepted by doctors and is often heavily criticised by oncologists. From what I believe I have observed, nutritional therapy can be popular among people who think a lot, want to achieve something in life but do not have a lot of formal education about nutrition.

Other:
A known type of nutritional therapy is a ketogenic diet to treat epilepsy in children. It is quite well accepted among doctors but its effectiveness is not yet clearly evaluated.

There was one woman from "China" at my place once who was treating some people with diabetes type 1..with something...one person has died. One doctor was treating a person with malaria with something other than official drugs...the person has died and the doctor lost her licence.

I am not a nutritional therapist but I research and write about nutrients effects according to scientific evidence.

Personally, I believe the food can greatly affect someone's life and one can use science, intuition, faith and experience from people he/she trusts to find what's right for him/her.
 
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Sydneyd

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First, thank you for the information! Second, to answer your question I will copy and paste since they say it better (or in any case, using the same words)

Nutritional therapists advise about and treat a wide range of medical conditions by assessing patients' requirements for food, vitamins and minerals while taking general health, well-being and lifestyle into consideration to provide holistic treatments.

So, I assume it is what you were thinking.
 

Drachen Jager

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Nutritional therapy probably doesn't hurt in most cases, so long as people don't use it to replace actual medical treatments.

A young girl from Ontario's parents recently won a court battle which argued for their right to treat her with nutritional therapy instead of hospital care for her highly treatable form of leukemia (over 90% recovery rate after chemotherapy). Within months of "winning" the case she died from leukemia.

As Tim Minchin says, "You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?......... Medicine."
 

boron

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Nutritional therapists advise about and treat a wide range of medical conditions by assessing patients' requirements for food, vitamins and minerals while taking general health, well-being and lifestyle into consideration to provide holistic treatments

Yes, we are talking about the same thing.

OK, so again:
1. Why people consider NT:
- From what' I've seen and heard several times: cancer
- From what I've read on online forums: irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), depression, to lose weight or simply to "live healthier"
2. Stigmas or stereotypes:
- NT providers: They often provide misleading results of studies from PubMed. They often perform meaningless "allergic tests."
- Doctors: "NT does not work."
- Recipients of NT: "You need to follow instructions strictly."
- Observers: "NT is a fraud...or superstition...or ideology"
3. How widely is NT accepted? It is widely accepted among gullible people. But this would need an actual survey.
 

Debbie V

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I've never heard of a NT, but I have been to a registered dietician. My primary care physician sent me. My cholesterol, weight, and triglycerides were up. I was given info on diet, which boiled down to eat more fiber than processed sugars and keep the fat calories under 30% of the total calories. I was also given flax seed oil and B-vitamins. I was told to excercise regularly, which I do when the weather supports a long walk. (I'm in NY and only go out on season.) I lost 40 pounds and put my numbers in order. I gained back 15 pounds after my next pregnancy, but the numbers are good ten years later.

I never noticed a stigma. I also don't make myself crazy about the diet or exercise. I did for the first year or so.
 
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King Neptune

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I've never heard of a NT, but I have been to a registered dietician. My primary care physician sent me. My cholesterol, weight, and triglycerides were up. I was given info on diet, which boiled down to eat more fiber than processed sugars and keep the fat calories under 30% of the total calories. I was also given flax seed oil and B-vitamins. I was told to excercise regularly, which I do when the weather supports a long walk. (I'm in NY and only go out on season.) I lost 40 pounds and put my numbers in order. I gained back 15 pounds after my next pregnancy, but the numbers are good ten years later.

I never noticed a stigma. I also don't make myself crazy about the diet or exercise. I did for the first year or so.

Thanks for the laugh.
 

Sydneyd

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This is great and exactly what I was looking for, front line stuff. I myself have never been to one.

Thanks so much!

I do wonder where the line is, or if there is one, between dietitian and nutritional therapist? Maybe it is a regional thing?
 

boron

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A dietitian or nutritionist is usually a medical doctor who has specialized in nutrition. It is often some other doctor, like a primary doctor or gastroenterologist who tells you to visit a dietitian who then prescribes you the exact diet.

Real dietitians give advice about what exactly and how much to eat if you have, for example, diabetes mellitus, obesity, high cholesterol, various genetic disorders of metabolism, celiac disease, fructose malabsorption, Crohn's disease, so an actual, previously diagnosed problem. They can check your blood levels of cholesterol, vitamins and minerals and should then prescribe you only diets that have been scientifically proven to be effective.

I do not know what experience or education one needs to become a "nutritional therapist;" it can be a doctor but often it is not. People often visit these therapist because they are depressed or simply lonely, or have irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia and other not well defined problems. Therapists then often perform unreliable tests, like hair tests for minerals or various antibodies that tell nothing. Then they can advise you to have "alkaline diet," to avoid gluten from no reason and make you buy some supplements they sell. Customers often appreciate how much time these therapists dedicate to them and "understand" them.

It is often determined by law what a registered dietitian and nutritional therapist may or may not do. A registered dietitian is usually not allowed to prescribe diets outside of the current medical doctrine.
 
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cornflake

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A dietitian or nutritionist is usually a medical doctor who has specialized in nutrition. It is often some other doctor, like a primary doctor or gastroenterologist who tells you to visit a dietitian who then prescribes you the exact diet.

Whoa, where in the world did you get this info? It's beyond not correct. Dietitians and nutritionists are NOT usually medical doctors, good lord.

A dietitian has to have a bachelor's degree and pass an exam and do some hours of training and stuff. A nutritionist can be any fool who decides to call him or herself a nutritionist. That's not to say some aren't educated, but there's no requirement that a person calling themselves nutritionist is educated in any particular way, and many aren't. There are also tons of seminars and stuff put on for nutritionists, run by like, NcDonald's, Coke, etc., that tout the benefits of their product.

Doctors will usually send someone to a registered dietitian. Doctors are NOT dietitians. I mean it's possible someone was a dietitian and then went to med school, but they'd then have been a dietitian a decade before, and ... yeah, that's like, oh, the dr. used to be a cab driver.


Real dietitians give advice about what exactly and how much to eat if you have, for example, diabetes mellitus, obesity, high cholesterol, various genetic disorders of metabolism, celiac disease, fructose malabsorption, Crohn's disease, so an actual, previously diagnosed problem. They can check your blood levels of cholesterol, vitamins and minerals and should then prescribe you only diets that have been scientifically proven to be effective.

This too is odd and kind of ridiculous. There's no diet that's been scientifically proven to be anything. That's not what science does. Science doesn't prove things. Also, they don't prescribe diets. Doctors prescribe medication or therapies.

I do not know what experience or education one needs to become a "nutritional therapist;" it can be a doctor but often it is not. People often visit these therapist because they are depressed or simply lonely, or have irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia and other not well defined problems. Therapists then often perform unreliable tests, like hair tests for minerals or various antibodies that tell nothing. Then they can advise you to have "alkaline diet," to avoid gluten from no reason and make you buy some supplements they sell. Customers often appreciate how much time these therapists dedicate to them and "understand" them.

It is often determined by law what a registered dietitian and nutritional therapist may or may not do. A registered dietitian is usually not allowed to prescribe diets outside of the current medical doctrine.

Where are you getting the bolded? Can you cite something for that please?

Also, as I don't think 'nutritional therapist' is anything but an invented title, like 'life coach,' I REALLY don't think there's any law governing what they can do that doesn't govern what any other random person can do.

Dietitians are governed by whatever agency certifies or registers them.
 

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Oh, I remember when nutritional therapy became a Thing and universities were scrabbling to cobble together NT degrees to milk as a cash cow. The unis I can think of have their NT degrees in the CAM stable (byre, I suppose, if we're keeping the cow theme going), rather than in the medical one.

(One of my universities offered NT as a degree. The only thing they didn't offer was pure and applied amulet making.)
 

boron

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@cornflake

Dietitians and nutritionists are NOT usually medical doctors, good lord. A dietitian has to have a bachelor's degree and pass an exam and do some hours of training and stuff.

I was wrong when saying a registered nutritionist has to be a doctor, which, obviously is not the case in the US. In my country (Slovenia/Europe), it is not enough to have a degree in chemistry or biology and then (after additional training) you would become a nutritionist within the official medical system; you have to be a doctor.

Here, anyone, who is not a doctor and provides nutritional therapy is in the field of "alternative medicine," which does not include "registered nutritionists." OK, this goes under regional differences the OP asked about.

There's no diet that's been scientifically proven to be anything. That's not what science does. Science doesn't prove things. Also, they don't prescribe diets. Doctors prescribe medication or therapies.

The term "diet" in medicine usually means any eating pattern with a list of foods to eat or avoid. They are many diseases for which specific diets have been scientifically proven to be effective, for example, gluten-free diet in celiac disease, fructose-free diet in hereditary fructose intolerance, and so on. Or simply, a low-calorie diet to lose weight, which can help to lower cholesterol or improve diabetes 2 or high blood pressure. Scientists, by performing experiments can prove or disprove things, not always, but they often can.

A doctor can prescribe a diet, for example a low-phosphorus diet for a kidney patient. Diet can be a therapy, or a preventative measure, so it can be prescribed. There's also a term "medically prescribed diet."

Where are you getting the bolded? Can you cite something for that please?

You asked this about my statement that a registered dietitian is usually not allowed to prescribe diets outside of the current medical doctrine.

When I wrote that, I assumed a registered dietitian would be a doctor. In my country, doctors are officially not allowed to give advice about alternative nutritional therapies and when they do, they may lose their licences. There's one discussion in the news here, but it's in my language, Google translate may help (giving nutrition advice outside of official medicine is considered homeopathy here).

Also, as I don't think 'nutritional therapist' is anything but an invented title, like 'life coach,' I REALLY don't think there's any law governing what they can do that doesn't govern what any other random person can do.

A registered dietitian usually needs a licence and I assume he/she can lose it when doing certain things wrong. It is at least this what differs dietitians from self-proclaimed nutritional therapists.

But any diet-related service, even if provided by a "coach" is probably regulated by some law in most countries. In the US, it is US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that determines, for example, which health claims are allowed on food/remedy products. Also, if a customer considers a certain service a fraud, he/she can sue them. So, I don't think a nutritional therapist is the same as any other random person, when it comes to law.
 
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veinglory

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I think you are making some incorrect generalizations. No, food coaches and most nutritional advisers are not at all regulated in the United States. Neither are most kind of practitioners in any area from horse dentistry to financial advising. It is just not how the system here works outside of the traditional great professions (law, medicine, clergy) and voluntary memberships (e.g. choosing to be licensed).
 

boron

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It seems some aspects of being dietitian are regulated by the US state laws:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1297&ChapterID=24
(Illinois General Assembly, Information maintained by the Legislative Reference Bureau)

PROFESSIONS, OCCUPATIONS, AND BUSINESS OPERATIONS
(225 ILCS 30/) Dietitian Nutritionist Practice Act

Sec. 15.5. Unlicensed practice; violation; civil penalty.
(a) Any person who practices, offers to practice, attempts to practice, or holds oneself out as being able to provide dietetics and nutrition services without being licensed under this Act shall, in addition to any other penalty provided by law, pay a civil penalty...
 
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King Neptune

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I think you are making some incorrect generalizations. No, food coaches and most nutritional advisers are not at all regulated in the United States. Neither are most kind of practitioners in any area from horse dentistry to financial advising. It is just not how the system here works outside of the traditional great professions (law, medicine, clergy) and voluntary memberships (e.g. choosing to be licensed).

You should look out, if you try to be a financial adviser, horse dentist, or claim to be a nutritionist in the U.S. All of those are quite regulated, and you would be fined if you practiced without a license. On the other hand, you can call yourself a clergyman any time you want to, and no one will prosecute.
 
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cornflake

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@cornflake

I was wrong when saying a registered nutritionist has to be a doctor, which, obviously is not the case in the US. In my country (Slovenia/Europe), it is not enough to have a degree in chemistry or biology and then (after additional training) you would become a nutritionist within the official medical system; you have to be a doctor.

Here, anyone, who is not a doctor and provides nutritional therapy is in the field of "alternative medicine," which does not include "registered nutritionists." OK, this goes under regional differences the OP asked about.

Ok, I'm speaking only about the U.S. Here, there are registered dietitians, who are licensed, and there's everyone else, who can call themselves nutritionists, nutritional therapists, whatever, and are not licensed or regulated by anyone, certainly including the FDA. None of these people are doctors, or close, except in some rare, random case.

The term "diet" in medicine usually means any eating pattern with a list of foods to eat or avoid. They are many diseases for which specific diets have been scientifically proven to be effective, for example, gluten-free diet in celiac disease, fructose-free diet in hereditary fructose intolerance, and so on. Or simply, a low-calorie diet to lose weight, which can help to lower cholesterol or improve diabetes 2 or high blood pressure. Scientists, by performing experiments can prove or disprove things, not always, but they often can.

No, these aren't proven. That's not what science does. Low-calorie diets aren't proven to cause weight loss, god knows, weight loss sure as heck isn't proven or even likely to lower cholesterol, as cholesterol isn't particularly likely to be affected by diet, etc., etc. Yes, if you have an allergy, avoiding the allergen is usually a good idea, though not always - there's certainly a body of evidence that leans toward exposure to control, reduce, eliminate allergic reactions.

A doctor can prescribe a diet, for example a low-phosphorus diet for a kidney patient. Diet can be a therapy, or a preventative measure, so it can be prescribed. There's also a term "medically prescribed diet."


You asked this about my statement that a registered dietitian is usually not allowed to prescribe diets outside of the current medical doctrine.

When I wrote that, I assumed a registered dietitian would be a doctor. In my country, doctors are officially not allowed to give advice about alternative nutritional therapies and when they do, they may lose their licences. There's one discussion in the news here, but it's in my language, Google translate may help (giving nutrition advice outside of official medicine is considered homeopathy here).

A registered dietitian usually needs a licence and I assume he/she can lose it when doing certain things wrong. It is at least this what differs dietitians from self-proclaimed nutritional therapists.

Yes, a registered dietitian can lose their registration or license or whatever it is for whatever kind of thing violates their professional code, though I don't know what that line is. That's it though; there's no law or anything else.

But any diet-related service, even if provided by a "coach" is probably regulated by some law in most countries. In the US, it is US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that determines, for example, which health claims are allowed on food/remedy products. Also, if a customer considers a certain service a fraud, he/she can sue them. So, I don't think a nutritional therapist is the same as any other random person, when it comes to law.

Food and drugs, yes, supplements, for instance, no. Yeah, you can sue anyone in the U.S., but that's not really to do with this.

Yes, a nutritional therapist is the same as any random person here, same as a life coach or a professional closet organizer.

It seems some aspects of being dietitian are regulated by the US state laws:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1297&ChapterID=24
(Illinois General Assembly, Information maintained by the Legislative Reference Bureau)

PROFESSIONS, OCCUPATIONS, AND BUSINESS OPERATIONS
(225 ILCS 30/) Dietitian Nutritionist Practice Act

That's a state licensing information thing. It's also about dietitians, again, the only ones regulated in any manner, and that's Illinois. :Shrug:
 

boron

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@ cornflake
Ok, I'm speaking only about the U.S. Here, there are registered dietitians, who are licensed, and there's everyone else, who can call themselves nutritionists, nutritional therapists, whatever, and are not licensed or regulated by anyone, certainly including the FDA.

Center of Nutrition Advocacy has a state map of current laws about nutritionists (and other related occupations):
http://www.nutritionadvocacy.org/laws-state
It seems, there are 17 states in which you are not allowed to provide nutrition service without being a registered dietitian.

Low-calorie diets aren't proven to cause weight loss, god knows, weight loss sure as heck isn't proven or even likely to lower cholesterol, as cholesterol isn't particularly likely to be affected by diet, etc., etc.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs/resources/heart/atp3full.pdf
(A systematic review of studies; page V-8)
Evidence statements: Weight reduction of even a few pounds will reduce LDL [cholesterol] levels regardless of the nutrient composition of the weight loss diet (A2), but weight reduction achieved through a calorie-controlled diet low in saturated fatty acids and cholesterol will enhance and sustain LDL cholesterol lowering (A2).

A dietitian also needs to know which foods increase blood sugar in diabetics and why a low-FODMAP diet can help in fructose malabsorption. There are MANY genetic disorders in which a correct diet can save someone's life and all that has been scientifically proven by studies.
 
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cornflake

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@ cornflake


Center of Nutrition Advocacy has a state map of current laws about nutritionists (and other related occupations):
http://www.nutritionadvocacy.org/laws-state
It seems, there are 17 states in which you are not allowed to provide nutrition service without being a registered dietitian.

That's not what that indicates. Look at the actual laws. I did not check all of them. I read three or four states', at random, and all had a long list of exemptions and qualifiers, ranging from people with an associates' degree (a two-year, undergrad degree), in nutrition or related field, who is working with a registered dietitian or for a non-profit, or a school, or a government agency, to retailers selling supplements or nutrition products making claims, to people calling themselves other things, like weight loss counselors, or whatever, for which there's no licensure either.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs/resources/heart/atp3full.pdf
(A systematic review of studies; page V-8)

That lit review is 15 years old, and many of the studies it's talking about are 20 years old or more. In addition, what you quote notes evidence, which is entirely different from proof. As also noted in the link -


If LDL cholesterol is ≥190 mg/dL despite dietary therapy ... Most such patients will have genetic forms of hypercholesterolemia that cannot be adequately treated with dietary therapy alone

Because, as we now are aware, it's not as simple as they used to think.

A dietitian also needs to know which foods increase blood sugar in diabetics and why a low-FODMAP diet can help in fructose malabsorption. There are MANY genetic disorders in which a correct diet can save someone's life and all that has been scientifically proven by studies.

Again, again, again, science does not prove things. That's not what science does.
 
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boron

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@cornflake

The nutritionadvocacy website clearly says on its home page for the red colored states:
"It is illegal to perform individualized nutrition counseling unless licensed or exempt."

The fact is that nutrition counseling in some states is regulated and this is what the discussion was about. The Illinois website mentions penalties. Maybe someone who actually works as a nutritionist in the US can say what this means in practice.

That lit review is 15 years old, and many of the studies it's talking about are 20 years old or more. In addition, what you quote notes evidence, which is entirely different from proof. As also noted in the link -

If LDL cholesterol is ≥190 mg/dL despite dietary therapy ... Most such patients will have genetic forms of hypercholesterolemia that cannot be adequately treated with dietary therapy alone

Your own quote suggests that dietary therapy can work but not necessary "alone."

Dietary counseling can help in many health disorders:

Diabetes mellitus type 1
A person with diabetes 1 needs to know what and how much to eat to maintain normal blood glucose levels and how to plan meals and insulin injections.

Fructose malabsorption
http://sacfs.asn.au/download/SueShepherd_sarticle.pdf
Fructose consumed in certain amount and in certain fructose/glucose ratios can cause bloating and loose stools in individuals with fructose malabsorption (which is fairly common). Avoiding fructose and some other nutrients can help relieve symptoms.

Phenylketonuria
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Phenylketonuria_(PKU)
Individuals with the severe form of this genetic disorder need to avoid an amino acid phenylalanine in order to avoid complications.

Even I am more comfortable with the term evidence than proof. But even if it's "only" evidence, sometimes it can be convincing enough for me to change something about my eating habits or to believe it can help others.

I agree, nutrition is complicated. The article in The Washington Post mentions that cholesterol is not necessary harmful for everyone but it can be for some people and in some nutrient combinations.
 
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cornflake

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@cornflake

The nutritionadvocacy website clearly says on its home page for the red colored states:
"It is illegal to perform individualized nutrition counseling unless licensed or exempt."

The fact is that nutrition counseling in some states is regulated and this is what the discussion was about. The Illinois website mentions penalties. Maybe someone who actually works as a nutritionist in the US can say what this means in practice.

The key words there are: "the nutritionadvocacy website... says," heh. Also, again, notice "or exempt." First, we're talking about 17 states that regulate this. Second, those states all have codas, exemptions, etc.

The majority of states don't even have that. Also again, not nutritionists, in the U.S., dietitians. They're the registered, licensed ones. Nutritionists are the closet organizer ones.


Your own quote suggests that dietary therapy can work but not necessary "alone."

I didn't say it couldn't work. I said it's not proven to work - i.e. it does not necessarily work, especially not for everyone.

Dietary counseling can help in many health disorders:

Diabetes mellitus type 1
A person with diabetes 1 needs to know what and how much to eat to maintain normal blood glucose levels and how to plan meals and insulin injections.

Fructose malabsorption
http://sacfs.asn.au/download/SueShepherd_sarticle.pdf
Fructose consumed in certain amount and in certain fructose/glucose ratios can cause bloating and loose stools in individuals with fructose malabsorption (which is fairly common). Avoiding fructose and some other nutrients can help relieve symptoms.

Phenylketonuria
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Phenylketonuria_(PKU)
Individuals with the severe form of this genetic disorder need to avoid an amino acid phenylalanine in order to avoid complications.

Even I am more comfortable with the term evidence than proof. But even if it's "only" evidence, sometimes it can be convincing enough for me to change something about my eating habits or to believe it can help others.

I agree, nutrition is complicated. The article in The Washington Post mentions that cholesterol is not necessary harmful for everyone but it can be for some people and in some nutrient combinations.

No one said dietary counseling couldn't help people. I said there's not scientific proof (of anything), that in the U.S., at least, diets aren't prescription, or proven, dietitians and nutritionists aren't the same thing, aren't doctors, and etc., above.

Same as the Post article - that's my point. You kept insisting there was proof of things and proven diets.

Just btw, I only know from knowing some people with diabetes, but my understanding has been that people with diabetes 2 need to watch their diets carefully, people with 1 really don't. They eat whatever, basically, and compensate with insulin, as the disorder isn't diet-related. I mean as long as they've got good control, no matter. Other way round for 2.
 

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You should look out, if you try to be a financial adviser, horse dentist, or claim to be a nutritionist in the U.S. All of those are quite regulated, and you would be fined if you practiced without a license. On the other hand, you can call yourself a clergyman any time you want to, and no one will prosecute.

Actually they aren't. I listed that because I know it for sure. Financial adviser is an open title, only certain "letters after the name" are related to licenses you have to hold. And as much as veterinarians try to claim otherwise, anyone can float horse teeth for money unless the local jurisdiction has banned it, and most haven't.
 

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I would add that in my experience individual nutritional advice is given rampantly by trainers and coaches of all types without much fear of prosecution.
 

King Neptune

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Actually they aren't. I listed that because I know it for sure. Financial adviser is an open title, only certain "letters after the name" are related to licenses you have to hold. And as much as veterinarians try to claim otherwise, anyone can float horse teeth for money unless the local jurisdiction has banned it, and most haven't.

Horse dentistry is part of veterinary medicine, but you may be right about the exact title "financial adviser". I was thinking of "investment adviser", which is a heavily regulated position now.
 

Sydneyd

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Thought I should mention I am reading this and gleaning my information. Thank you guys for helping me out!