Romance Problem.

Handmaiden

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I have two characters I want to get together. One's a princess, one's a ruffian antihero type, spends his life exploring the ways of the wild, sleeps rough, trains the citizen army, uncovers and fights evil wherever he finds it. He's very intimidating to look at, is very blunt, and isn't emotional really, but would give his life for her if he had to. She feels the same way about him.

Both he and his sister (the princess's BFF) are currently pushing themselves to the limit trying to deal with the main villain. The princess is feeling useless in comparison but she is taking solace in the fact that she's taking care of an orphaned infant during this time. She becomes more useful later on, when he goes down. Both the King and Queen and many others have been captured and for all she knows they're dead.

The most that's happened between them is she's kissed his cheek. I'm finding it difficult to see a way forward in putting them together because he's so focused and harsh in many ways. Almost too manly for romance if that makes sense. It feels awkward because in dealing with the worst the world has had to offer, he's in may ways become that. Cold an insensitive.
 
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cat_named_easter

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I'm struggling to give suggestions since I don't really know enough about the whole picture but...

1. How about having something bad happen to the sister (kidnap, illness, injury) - this might make him a little more vulnerable/open/sensitive and would give them both a reason to be around each other more.
2. Although you said she's feeling a bit useless, could she have some skill or knowledge that ends up being essential for the guy? Maybe he really needs to rely on her for something quite specific, again giving them a reason to spend more time around each other and become more familiar and involved.
 

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On the surface, this is pushing toward stereotypes; I'm sure there's much more to the characters than you stated here, but it's something you might want to be aware of.

If they're not clicking or you can't get things sparking, you're going to have to make a few character adjustments. Your guy may come across as Too Manly For Romance, but give him a little vulnerability that has a way of coming to the surface when he's around her. Your princess may seem like the Sweet Maternal Young Lady taking care of a baby in the middle of (apparent) chaos, but give her a little grit and spark.

Also, what do they talk about during down time? Banter's a good way to start building a rapport between characters, and rapport's only a step or two away from romance. Maybe she surprises him by being clever, or she knows more than he expects about battle tactics or wars or such (even if she learned it from books, not the hard way like he probably did.) Does he have a vision of life beyond what he's doing now? Does being around her make him wonder if he should have a future in mind? Does being around him make her reconsider her own life and future - does he challenge her preconceptions of the lower classes, etc.?
 

Handmaiden

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Its not like there aren't opportunities to show them all as vulnerable. There's plenty. It's just that when the dust is settled, and they win what do I show him doing? Going out on a date? Kissing and holding hands? Spending time together when the world needs to be rebuilt and society needs his help more than ever? It feels awkward for someone who looks like him and has his personality. He'd feel so guilty knowing there's people who need help out there.

I'm leaning towards just showing a bathtub sex scene than anything else, but that makes it look like it's just a sex thing.

Again it's just when the victory's been won and the war is over that a guy who's entire identity is based on being violent and rough, starts to look kinda awkward when it comes to putting the moves on a princess. But I like that odd couple thing they have going on.
 
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Brightdreamer

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Have you read many books with romantic subplots? How did the authors handle them? It seems to me that you just aren't sure about writing romance, period, in which case some research is in order.

Yes, having them go out for coffee and a play after that whole saving-the-world bother's over with wouldn't work... but will he stand with her as she rebuilds the kingdom, assuming she's still part of the ruling class? If her family's ousted, will he still stand with her in her new, powerless status? Will she give up her position in society to join him in his quest to root out the world's hidden evils? Those are implications of loyalty and commitment that could easy tip into outright love, especially if you present it right.

As for throwing in a sex scene just to move the romance along... sex and romance aren't necessarily the same thing. A hookup at the bar isn't romance, and some people form deep bonds without the physical act of sex. Also, if the tub sex is an out-of-the-blue thing - with no build-up and no consequences - audiences will indeed think you just wanted to throw in a sex scene. Now, if one accidentally walks in on the other in the tub, teasing an attraction in that long, awkward moment before they walk out (or, depending on the character, lingering long enough for some charged banter before being chased out by a flung washrag, or interrupted by a call from a third party)... and some time afterward, they find themselves in close quarters again and the interest first kindled there bursts into uncontrollable fire...
 

ClareGreen

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Being kinda awkward when it comes to putting the moves on is perfectly fine - but he might have worked out, that even when there are people who need help out there, that if he has no-one he can turn to and no down-time then he won't be as effective when it comes to them.

Maybe they could actually be friends, and let things progress from there.
 

John Ayliff

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If the princess has already developed feelings for the guy, you could have her make a move. That shows her as assertive and goes some way to counter the passive princess cliche. He's never going to make the first move because he's so focused and harsh, so she has to.

A lot depends on the social norms of your setting. As a princess, would she be expected to enter into a political arranged marriage? Even if not, and she's free to pick a spouse, would this guy be seen as beneath her station?

How do relationships normally progress? Something like modern-day dating? Intense, ritualised, non-sexual courtly love? Flirting at a dance and then asking her father for her hand in marriage? Would a princess normally have a chaperone when spending time with a man? How does society feel about premarital sex? Are the social norms different between his social class and hers?

Does the princess have other suitors? If so you could have her soundly rejecting one of them, to the surprise of everyone, and then she can say she did it because her heart belongs to the warrior dude.

Based on what you've said about these characters, I think going straight to the bathtub sex scene might be the best solution. I'd maybe have her initiate it, and be more confident than him, not necessarily because she's more *sexually* experienced but because from the sound of it she's more emotionally mature. (But the scene would be different depending on whether it's either of their first time.) I don't think starting with a sex scene would necessarily make the relationship just about sex: it's clear that they already care about each other, and unspoken sexual tension has been building up, so the sudden sexual encounter could easily lead to more emotional intimacy later.
 

Lillith1991

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I think part of the issue is you want to get them together, and beyond mutual devotion haven't really thought of the why's or how's of it. So far we don't know much bout either except he's this tough seeming man, and she's maternal and frustrated at not being able to do more to actively help.

Well, maybe they aren't meant to be together. Maybe he's gay or she's a lesbian, or maybe they're just completely heterosexual, and platonic friends who are devoted to each other. I know with me and some of my friends, I would go to hell and back for them. They've earned my respect and devotion, but I'm not in love with them like with my girlfriend. What I'm trying to say is that the type of devotion you've mentioned doesn't have to be romantic. If you want it to be romantic, you have to build it up. Show it over the course of the story.
 
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Layla Lawlor

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Maybe you could think about showing why they're good together, beyond just being in love. Because there's a lot more to a relationship (at least a functional one) than having sex. Have them have conversations and discover they have things in common. Maybe he could help her take care of the baby, and she finds out that he's actually really good with kids, and happy to participate in child care. Are there forms of entertainment they might have in common? Maybe he brings out a deck of cards or she has a chess set, and they start playing together to take their mind off things for a while. Maybe he opens up and confides in her, or she in him.

Basically, if these people DO become a couple, they're going to need a lot more to base a relationship on than just a rather distant kind of love-from-afar. Giving them some interests in common and letting them spend some time together as people might be a good way towards doing that, and would open the door for more to happen between them if they're spending more time together.
 

Handmaiden

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Have you read many books with romantic subplots? How did the authors handle them? It seems to me that you just aren't sure about writing romance, period, in which case some research is in order.
Yeah I admit, romance isnt my forte.

On the surface, this is pushing toward stereotypes; I'm sure there's much more to the characters than you stated here,
but it's something you might want to be aware of.
Yeah I'm just summarizing events for brevity's sake.

If they're not clicking or you can't get things sparking, you're going to have to make a few character adjustments. Your guy may come across as Too Manly For Romance, but give him a little vulnerability that has a way of coming to the surface when he's around her.
I hear what you're saying it's just that understandably his focus isn't on her. It's on trying to improve the situation. They're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this villain, the princess is even about to resort to brainwashing and hypnotic suggestion.

Your princess may seem like the Sweet Maternal Young Lady taking care of a baby in the middle of (apparent) chaos, but give her a little grit and spark.
She can fight, she's the best archer in the world, but it's not useful against the main enemies.

Also, what do they talk about during down time?
They talk about their parents, and their opposing attitudes to the villain. Redemption vs destruction. He believes it's too dangerous to solve the problem with her proposed "hugs and kisses" and won't allow her to try it. She thinks his journeys have made him incapable of love or mercy. But i the end it reverses, she joins them in fighting and he uses the baby when he sees its not working. But that doesn't work either.
Banter's a good way to start building a rapport between characters, and rapport's only a step or two away from romance. Maybe she surprises him by being clever, or she knows more than he expects about battle tactics or wars or such (even if she learned it from books, not the hard way like he probably did.)
He praised her idea to brainwash the enemy. Saying that it can't really be done when theyre so short on time, but that it might help a little. She becomes very useful once he passes out. They're trying to keep the enemy there in order for his sister to make use of the prep time. Once he can't do it anymore its up to the army, when they cant, its up to the princess and the baby.


Does he have a vision of life beyond what he's doing now?
Honestly he sees the armed forces were woefully unprepared for this war. I mean completely. Only he and his sister, proved to be ahead of the times to the point that when this disaster came, they were able to stop it. But he didn't know that this kind of enemy would invade. It happened very fast. He prepared the armed forces for bandits and trolls etc, not this.

This war has given people an easy way to magicallt become demigods. But no one knows the long term risks. He is under immense pressure from his sister to offer an alternative so they won't just abandon their species and become a transcendant master race.


Does being around her make him wonder if he should have a future in mind?
He's considering if he should sail away to search for his parents, who underwent a great voyage to map the world.

Does being around him make her reconsider her own life and future
She wouldn't mind the infant shes taking care of having a father figure around.

- does he challenge her preconceptions of the lower classes, etc.?
Not really, no. She's a very charitable person.
 

Mr Flibble

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Ok, my first ever book had this

To make it work

What is it about the FMC that softens him up? (if nothing odes , no romance)

What is it in him that she likes? Does she see a humanity that no one else does?


They should complement each other in some way, communicate in a way they don't with anyone else, make each other the best that person can be


If none of these things happen, it's probably not really a romance(but could be useful as a will they won' they side plot)
 

Roxxsmom

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For romance to move forward, especially in a story where the characters have lots of other things on their minds, it needs a catalyst. What this catalyst is? It really depends on the circumstances and people involved. Almost too manly for romance is a bit of a cliche, but even so, plenty of romance writers and fantasy writers have overcome it in their stories.

Catalysts are often things the two people have in common besides the initial physical interest or chemistry. Something that breaks down the wall of logical resistance separating them and brings them together as people/friends/allies in a way that allows that first kiss (or whatever) to happen.

Without knowing anything about your plot or characters besides what you've said, some rough ideas might be:

Mutual fondness for the sister/BFF character.
Something they both care about or love.
Something one does that makes the other think there's more to them than just the superficial things they see. So for him, it might be noticing that the princess actually has a lot of grit and backbone under her princess-ey exterior. For her, it may be noticing that he has a softer side under that ultra-focused manliness.

Also, things like a common frustration or bad experience in their past.

Maybe thinking about your own experiences on that front. Any times where you just clicked with someone. Of course, it's hard to articulate why.

But it's up to you to write those scenes with that tension and frustration buzzing beneath the surface, so it seems natural to the reader when the characters finally take it a step further.

I've read romances and seen movies where the "connection" doesn't seem to have any real basis, or it's based only on the physical (she's the most beautiful gal ever, or he's the bravest, handsomest dude ever) and yeah, that leaves me flat.
 
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Handmaiden

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If the princess has already developed feelings for the guy, you could have her make a move. That shows her as assertive and goes some way to counter the passive princess cliche. He's never going to make the first move because he's so focused and harsh, so she has to.

I thought about that. I'm just not sure it's very realistic. If she would risk rejection from anybody much less him. A princess being romantically rejected is pretty harsh. She's used to being admired. The fact that he doesn't admire her like that is one of the reasons shes drawn to him I think.

A lot depends on the social norms of your setting. As a princess, would she be expected to enter into a political arranged marriage? Even if not, and she's free to pick a spouse, would this guy be seen as beneath her station?

She requires the approval of her father. The problem is that her father wouldn't approve. Not because he's rough looking. It's because the King is afraid of his sister. Afraid that she would seize the crown.

How do relationships normally progress? Something like modern-day dating?
Intense, ritualised, non-sexual courtly love? Flirting at a dance and then asking her father for her hand in marriage?

Well the guy once punched the king in the face... but he would have to, yeah.

Would a princess normally have a chaperone when spending time with a man?

She has guards under normal conditions.
How does society feel about premarital sex? Are the social norms different between his social class and hers?

Premarital sex was socially taboo, but it's not anymore due to the severely depleted population due to high casualties.

Does the princess have other suitors?

That she won't wait forever and isn't exactly hard up for suitors could be something worth bringing in at the end. :)
If so you could have her soundly rejecting one of them, to the surprise of everyone, and then she can say she did it because her heart belongs to the warrior dude.

Would you buy it? The risk that he might still reject? It's a huuuge risk, that. Publicly declaring.
so the sudden sexual encounter could easily lead to more emotional intimacy later.

That would be the easy route, yeah. I'm always looking for something more timeless and endearing though. I mean a sex scene is great and all, but it doesn't leave a lasting emotional impression, does it.

------------------------------

What is it about the FMC that softens him up? (if nothing odes , no romance)

When confronted with the fact that her parents are missing and captured, presumed dead, she still put the kid first, and still tried to reassure him later, even after upset her by delivering the news about her family very bluntly.

What is it in him that she likes?

He spent his entire life trying to make the world a better place. He's a rugged loner who plays by his own rules, is immensely brave and strong willed (and is the closest/only male equivalent to his sister). She couldn't bear to see either of them romance another. Her ultimate fantasy would be all three of them in a bed XD.
Does she see a humanity that no one else does?

That he has to have a deep caring in him to do what he does.
 

Albedo

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If you're having great difficulty finding a reason for the romance, maybe it just doesn't fit in your story.



This has been your heretical Valentine's thought for the day.
 

Lillith1991

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If you're having great difficulty finding a reason for the romance, maybe it just doesn't fit in your story.



This has been your heretical Valentine's thought for the day.

QFT. Not everything requires romance. Romance can enhance a non-Romance story, but it isn't required for a good story to include it. Don't push it if you really can't find a plausible way to get them together, because forced romance sub-plots often ruin the story in my experience.
 

Lillith1991

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He spent his entire life trying to make the world a better place. He's a rugged loner who plays by his own rules, is immensely brave and strong willed (and is the closest/only male equivalent to his sister). She couldn't bear to see either of them romance another. Her ultimate fantasy would be all three of them in a bed XD.

So, the princess is bisexual and possibly polyamorous as well? Why do you want her to end up with him instead of the sister or in some sort of arangment with them both where they share her? I get the appeal of the hero getting the girl/boy if they lean that way, it's comforting. So comforting that it can be a bit of a cliché, the hero/heroine always getting their romantic interest.
 

Handmaiden

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QFT. Not everything requires romance. Romance can enhance a non-Romance story, but it isn't required for a good story to include it. Don't push it if you really can't find a plausible way to get them together, because forced romance sub-plots often ruin the story in my experience.
Thats true, but it'd be unsatisfying I think for her to actually be right, that he is incapable of love. She almost dies, as does he, so I think that's a good time to open them up.

So, the princess is bisexual and possibly polyamorous as well?
His sister's the bigshot hero who's saved their lives half a dozen times, some in very spectacular ways, is the one who finally defeated both main villains, has saved the world twice before, and is known as the defender of their land.

So you gotta understand that when she's in the presence of his sister, she's in the presence of a legend. She appreciates the beauty of other females, but its never turned into sexual desire before. His sister would be the first.

Why do you want her to end up with him instead of the sister or in some sort of arangment with them both where they share her?
The sister's celibate, so she's not on the market. The princess knows the closest she will ever get is the brother. Which is settling technically, but she would be more than happy if she got him.


I get the appeal of the hero getting the girl/boy if they lean that way, it's comforting. So comforting that it can be a bit of a cliché, the hero/heroine always getting their romantic interest.
My story's very thin on romance as it is. The only one is between a husband and wife which was already established from the start.
 
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WriteMinded

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I have two characters I want to get together. One's a princess, one's a ruffian antihero type, spends his life exploring the ways of the wild, sleeps rough, trains the citizen army, uncovers and fights evil wherever he finds it. He's very intimidating to look at, is very blunt, and isn't emotional really, but would give his life for her if he had to. She feels the same way about him.

Both he and his sister (the princess's BFF) are currently pushing themselves to the limit trying to deal with the main villain. The princess is feeling useless in comparison but she is taking solace in the fact that she's taking care of an orphaned infant during this time. She becomes more useful later on, when he goes down. Both the King and Queen and many others have been captured and for all she knows they're dead.

The most that's happened between them is she's kissed his cheek. I'm finding it difficult to see a way forward in putting them together because he's so focused and harsh in many ways. Almost too manly for romance if that makes sense. It feels awkward because in dealing with the worst the world has had to offer, he's in may ways become that. Cold an insensitive.
How about he just grabs her and shows her what a kiss really is?? The way you describe him, he doesn't seem one to hold back, why are you?
 

Handmaiden

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He's convincing doing that, it's afterward in an actual relationship ... I mean I don't see him publically holding her hand or anything.
 

Handmaiden

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I'm just using that as an example.

I need to tread that fine line between making him softer, but still a hardass. I don't want people to think he just needed a female all along to tame him, you know what I mean?
 

Sam Argent

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Thats true, but it'd be unsatisfying I think for her to actually be right, that he is incapable of love. She almost dies, as does he, so I think that's a good time to open them up.

His sister's the bigshot hero who's saved their lives half a dozen times, some in very spectacular ways, is the one who finally defeated both main villains, has saved the world twice before, and is known as the defender of their land.

So you gotta understand that when she's in the presence of his sister, she's in the presence of a legend. She appreciates the beauty of other females, but its never turned into sexual desire before. His sister would be the first.

The sister's celibate, so she's not on the market. The princess knows the closest she will ever get is the brother. Which is settling technically, but she would be more than happy if she got him.


My story's very thin on romance as it is. The only one is between a husband and wife which was already established from the start.

All you're doing is making me root for a romance with the sister too because it sounds like good conflict, and that totally makes me click the buy button. The reason why the sister sounds like a better love interest is because she feels more developed while you're pretty much describing the dude as the quiet hardened warrior type. If you want the romance to work, you're probably gonna have to work on the guy's character or switch him with the sister. Otherwise, the 'maybe it's not a romance' route might be your best bet.
 

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I'm just using that as an example.

I need to tread that fine line between making him softer, but still a hardass. I don't want people to think he just needed a female all along to tame him, you know what I mean?


Well I'm still confused as to what the problem is. :) You don't need him to be softer. You just need him to be a person inside the hardass. Even total hardasses fall in love, and it doesn't stop them being their good hardass self. People don;t have a personality transplant when they fall in love -- they fall in love as themselves and act accordingly

So what WOULD he do if he fell in love? ETA For example, maybe he cleans/mends her armour for her, maybe he's all snuggly in private but still harsh in public, maybe he buys her a great horse, or does that job he knows she hates. I don't know, because I don't know your setting or characters. But there are a million ways to show you love someone without being all gooey every second
 
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Handmaiden

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The reason why the sister sounds like a better love interest is because she feels more developed
I hear what you're saying about the sister, but as you say, her character is more developed and nuanced, so I don't think she needs it. I think he's the one who needs that extra layer of depth that his romantic interaction with the princess could bring out.
So what WOULD he do if he fell in love? ETA For example, maybe he cleans/mends her armour for her, maybe he's all snuggly in private but still harsh in public, maybe he buys her a great horse, or does that job he knows she hates. I don't know, because I don't know your setting or characters. But there are a million ways to show you love someone without being all gooey every second

I got a few ideas now.

She tries to help him with the dirty clean up job.
In return he tries to help her with the infant.
Look into each other's eyes, he turns away.
But later invites her to something special.
Kiss.
Done.

Good to keep it simple I think. Simple and iconic.
 
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I would also note that simply having a romance for the sake of needing a romance can also seem extremely trite, hackneyed and overdone in general. I think it would clearly need a starting point not only in terms of their common goals or the types of battles they fight together but also about the specific traits they find in each other that they admire and what it is that they love about each other in terms of how they deal with adversity and being in danger of losing a battle.

And if this anti hero's life and development is solely built around war, that is going to cause further problems as well. In that case, you would have to address the issue of what would he have left to fight once the battle is over? In England, for example, pirates were often trained soldiers who went to piracy when England declared the end of war with her enemies; there purpose in life was war and the end of it meant piracy was a natural outlet to turn to. If this anti hero's purpose in life revolves around way, it could mean he is more likely to turn to outlets not particularly inviting for romance.