Isn't this crushing?

Ravioli · Feb 12, 2015

I just saw a clip that really got me down and made me realize something that is probably at the source of all the violence and hatred in this world. I'm in a total swivet over this because it's so global and omnipresent and permanent.

A friend on Facebook shared a clip of a man angrily running at two other young men who are doing something with his front tire. He attacks and they try to keep a distance, but stay close so they can manage to point out to him: he had a flat, and they were volunteering to change it. As a nice surprise or whatever.

The car owner's reaction wasn't unusual, and that's what got me so bad. We live in a world, or in a mindset, where we expect bad things, bad intentions, bad deeds, way more easily and frequently than we do kindness or innocence. We see someone too close to our stuff and we feel threatened. A man approaches a woman and she immediately assumes she'll have to squirm her way out of sexual harassment. Your boss takes you aside for a talk, and you immediately fear you're being fired or warned. Your crush disappears on Whatsapp and you immediately think he blocked you when he's only deleted the app so he can focus on his exams.

And are there ever inciting incidents that turn our trust in the good in people, into this natural, automatic expectation of the bad? Are there, really? Is growing up and facing reality enough to become so fearful? Or are we inherently this broken?

mirandashell · Feb 12, 2015

Are you feeling particularly upset today?

Ravioli · Feb 12, 2015

Because it isn't true?

mirandashell · Feb 12, 2015

Well no.... not as much as you fear.

Yes, people can be suspicious but that kind of reaction you talk about in your OP is unusual, I think.

And you don't get see all the times that people are nice, or polite, or helpful to others. All the little courtesies and kindnesses that make up a day. They tend not to get on YouTube.

BirdyRobin · Feb 12, 2015

'Not every day may be good, but there is something good in each day'

The other day i saw a clip of a dog stuck on an ice platform with only water around him. Not very much later this man swum towards the dog and helped him board the ship. It may be a tad extreme example, however if you look around you may see enough kindness, it's simply what we pay our attention towards.

Seven-Deuce · Feb 12, 2015

If I saw two kids fiddling around at the tire of my car, I'd probably do the same thing. The thing is that most good people don't hang around the tires of my car for very long, and I'm not willing to presume that they're doing nice things because… really, what nice things are there to do to someone's car in a parking lot? His apprehension I can understand, the level of aggression involved might be something that needs to be toned down.

jjdebenedictis · Feb 12, 2015

Yeah, I was on Twitter a while ago and someone mentioned that when he (involuntarily; it was an internet issue) went offline for a few days, that produced a noticeable lift in his mood, his optimism levels, and his willingness to interact positively with strangers.

The internet is a powerful tool for communication, but there is a tendency for it to focus on the outrages, rather than the everyday niceness that pervades the world. There is a kneejerk tendency for people to fear the worst, and to react to their fear rather than the facts of the situation. That's an evolved response; it's better to mistakenly see a tiger that isn't there than to miss a tiger that is.

I think you have to consciously focus yourself on the good things that form the background noise of your life, like having food and health and people who love you, for example. Practicing gratefulness is a healthy life skill to develop, and it offsets the natural tendency to focus on negatives.

chompers · Feb 12, 2015

I don't think that we're inherently wired that way or because as adults we face reality, but that it's because the world is crumbling apart, sadly.

Ravioli · Feb 12, 2015

So.... if you see people in any way interacting with your personal belongings, you would not immediately be suspicious and this is just me being negative? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

chompers · Feb 12, 2015

No, I am saying that we're not born that way, but that our environment made us that way. The world is getting worse.

So yes, I would be suspicious.

benbradley · Feb 12, 2015

chompers said:
The world is getting worse..

Argh.

Chasing the Horizon · Feb 12, 2015

chompers said:
The world is getting worse.

I really fail to see how this is true. The violent crime rate did bump up a bit in recent years (maybe due to the recession), but it's still vastly below the historic highs of the 1980s and early 1990s. It also appears to be dropping again.

Obviously there's more to the state of the world than crime rates, but the reactions being discussed in this thread seem to directly relate to a fear of crime, to the assumption that people mean harm. And from that perspective you have a whole lot less to fear now than you did 25 years ago.

Helix · Feb 12, 2015

I haven't seen the clip, but a lack of facts has never stopped me from Having An Opinion.

I'm immediately suspicious of Youtube clips purporting to be of people doing good deeds that are mistaken for bad deeds and it's all resolved in front of a convenient camera happy every after etc.

I mean, why would people be fiddling with a tyre if they didn't have a jack and a replacement? Why would someone run angrily at two people without asking what they're up to first? Why would they hang around when a person with obvious anger management issues charges at them?

Less suspicion of people; more suspicion of people with Youtube clips.

Ken · Feb 12, 2015

This just so infuriates me. Why? WHY ?!
G*d I am just so fed up with such stuff !!!

chompers · Feb 12, 2015

Helix said:
I haven't seen the clip, but a lack of facts has never stopped me from Having An Opinion.

I'm immediately suspicious of Youtube clips purporting to be of people doing good deeds that are mistaken for bad deeds and it's all resolved in front of a convenient camera happy every after etc.

I mean, why would people be fiddling with a tyre if they didn't have a jack and a replacement? Why would someone run angrily at two people without asking what they're up to first? Why would they hang around when a person with obvious anger management issues charges at them?

Less suspicion of people; more suspicion of people with Youtube clips.

See, my suspicious mind would think that they were the ones who slashed my tires and tried to play the hero when they got caught. OR they slashed the tires and was going to use it as a way to make money off the poor victim, but it backfired on them and they had to lie to get out of their predicament.

Albedo · Feb 12, 2015

It's not really debatable. Fewer people killed in wars, fewer children dying in childbirth, life expectancies and health increasing everywhere, generally improving democratic rights, increasing connectivity, greater access to information for everyone ... where exactly are we going backwards?

It's actually kind of a shame we're going to end it all by destroying the biosphere, when this is the first time in history we're actively making things better for everyone. C'est la vie. Fermi paradox, etc.

mccardey · Feb 12, 2015

NaeimGiladisLegacy said:
So.... if you see people in any way interacting with your personal belongings, you would not immediately be suspicious <snip>? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Yes, I wouldn't be suspicious. Mind you, I'm not sure where you live or what your neighbourhood is like.

True story: I came back to my car two days ago to find two men doing something to the door. My first assumption was that I was looking at the wrong car - it looked like they were trying to get in, so that made more sense. Then a third bloke called out from the roof of the shop - they were painting the roof and were worried that the paint might just possibly get windblown onto my car, so they were covering it with plastic sheeting. They'd already been to three or four shops nearby to try to find the owner.

I thought they were terribly sweet and they thought I was terribly sweet for thinking they were terribly sweet and we all said "Thank you so much!" to each other. It didn't seem particularly odd.

ETA: If quick suspicion is a sensible and necessary life-tool where you are, it makes sense to deploy it. I'm just saying that there are places where people truly don't.

Albedo · Feb 12, 2015

chompers said:
But the question wasn't about how advanced we've become.

I know. It's a question about perceptions, and whether our responses to those around us are skewed by our perceptions of our own safety in today's world.

And if people's perceptions of the world are out of tune with the reality that things are continually improving, of course there's going to be a lot of misplaced mistrust.

benbradley · Feb 12, 2015

I've tried to say this before.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8841521#post8841521

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300771

DancingMaenid · Feb 12, 2015

I don't think being suspicious is always a bad thing. I haven't seen that clip--it sounds like the car's owner might have reacted a little too strongly. But ideally, I think a balance between suspicion and optimism is good. No, we shouldn't automatically assume that people are out to hurt us, but we do need to be guarded enough to exercise good judgment and take care of ourselves.

If I saw someone doing something to my property, I would be concerned. I wouldn't necessarily assume that the person was a criminal, but I would be concerned about what they were doing, and it would put me on guard. I don't think this makes me cynical. Just cautious.

frimble3 · Feb 12, 2015

NaeimGiladisLegacy said:
I just saw a clip that really got me down and made me realize something that is probably at the source of all the violence and hatred in this world. I'm in a total swivet over this because it's so global and omnipresent and permanent.

A friend on Facebook shared a clip of a man angrily running at two other young men who are doing something with his front tire. He attacks and they try to keep a distance, but stay close so they can manage to point out to him: he had a flat, and they were volunteering to change it. As a nice surprise or whatever.

The car owner's reaction wasn't unusual, and that's what got me so bad. We live in a world, or in a mindset, where we expect bad things, bad intentions, bad deeds, way more easily and frequently than we do kindness or innocence. We see someone too close to our stuff and we feel threatened. A man approaches a woman and she immediately assumes she'll have to squirm her way out of sexual harassment. Your boss takes you aside for a talk, and you immediately fear you're being fired or warned. Your crush disappears on Whatsapp and you immediately think he blocked you when he's only deleted the app so he can focus on his exams.

And are there ever inciting incidents that turn our trust in the good in people, into this natural, automatic expectation of the bad? Are there, really? Is growing up and facing reality enough to become so fearful? Or are we inherently this broken?

I have a mean-spirited, cynical question: who was filming this clip? Who knew that there was going to be exciting running/attacking action?
Friend of the two guys, who wanted to record tire-changing? Maybe to prove to the authorities that they were men of good character, and spontaneously helpful?
Someone who knows that the car owner has a short temper, and will soon returning soon? Maybe the cameraman is looking for something that will go viral?
Or some prankster or social scientist just wanting to get a reaction?
Because you'd think that most people, whether destructive or angry, would moderate their behavior in front of a camera. Even an eentsy little cellphone camera.

jjdebenedictis · Feb 12, 2015

Y'know, I can vote and work outside the home. No one around me is enslaved for life. I take medicine that keeps me alive. The current generation is less racist, less homophobic, and less sexist than any generation before it. My sister-in-law survived a pregnancy that would have killed her without medical intervention.

The world is getting better. It simply is. The biosphere is not, however; Albedo is right about that.

Ravioli · Feb 13, 2015

I'm not talking about bad deeds vs. good deeds and not about the question whether the world is becoming a better place with longer life expectancy and HIV vaccines. It's also not a question of location, and it's not just me. It's about the fact that humans EVERYWHERE have a tendency to be defensive and suspicious.

Dog runs your way? You gonna get mauled.
Youth trespassing? Burglary in the making.
Guys messing with your car? Stealing it.
Dude picking up your bags? Stealing them.
Male stranger getting close to a child? OMG PEDO KIDNAPPING!!
Guy walking around with your phone? Stole it.
Don't get me started on Muslims or black people who are guilty until proven innocent (posthumely..).
And so on.

There is undeniably a tendency to assume the bad, while the dog might just have seen a squirrel, the kid lost his ball on your lawn, the guys were changing your tire, the dude wants to carry your stuff for you, and the male stranger was just having a silly chat with your kid. The guy with your phone picked it up to return it to you after you forgot it at the register.

When I was nine, I got a bill of 5 German Marks from a stranger who told me to buy myself something nice. I was suspicious but then decided he's nice. What can I say, he left and I didn't get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. But many airlines don't even seat men next to unaccompanied minors.

Medical development has nothing to do with it, neither do those tearjerker clips of people fishing kittens from rivers. This is 100% about mankind's tendency to be suspicious of each other.
And it's most certainly not about the us.
The legitimacy of the clip is also irrelevant because fake or real, it illustrates something that IS real.

chompers said:
No, I am saying that we're not born that way, but that our environment made us that way. The world is getting worse.

So yes, I would be suspicious.

Actually, with your comment I did agree. Some of the others just sounded unconvincingly optimistic...

I'm suspicious, too. I just find it sad that it's a lot more intrinsic than some specific traumatic event/s.

mccardey · Feb 13, 2015

NaeimGiladisLegacy said:
It's about the fact that humans EVERYWHERE have a tendency to be defensive and suspicious.

I don't.

GailD · Feb 13, 2015

mccardey said:
ETA: If quick suspicion is a sensible and necessary life-tool where you are, it makes sense to deploy it. I'm just saying that there are places where people truly don't.

How I wish I lived in one of those places. In JHB, if someone you don't know is touching your car - there's a 99% chance they're trying to steal it. If someone is loitering outside your property - there's a 99% chance they're looking for a way to get in. If someone walks toward me making too much eye-contact - I'm instantly braced for a mugging. Why? Because it's happened before.

I've learned the hard way to be defensive/aggressive/highly suspicious about any unusual activity. This constant state of vigilance is wearing me down but, here, it's a survival mechanism. I'm always happy to apologize later, if I was mistaken.

NaeimGiladisLegacy said:
It's about the fact that humans EVERYWHERE have a tendency to be defensive and suspicious.

Possibly, one of the reasons the human race has survived as long as it has. Old habits die hard.

Isn't this crushing?

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