An interesting article about being frank concerning money and writing

Perks said:

This author shares her opinion that if your writing life is "subsidized" by a partner who makes good money or a background that's afforded you plenty of writing time and freedom from financial worry, that it's a disservice to hopefuls to be coy about it.



It's a very interesting perspective. I know that my husband's job security has put me very much at ease in my work and more at ease with all the rejection that comes with it.

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Love the ending. "Okay there's mine...now show me yours."

I was horrified by the one writer's attribution of 'because I didn't have kids' (my paraphrasing). Horrified! Not having kids allowed her to be a true artist???!!!

My children are the one true joy in my life. I couldn't imagine choosing an art over children. My God...that woman had no imagination. It doesn't say who she was, but gah!

But who am I to say anything in the kids/no kids argument. That's very personal and individual. I really enjoyed the blog.

Personally, we both worked full time. Writing was always something done for fun on the side. I had children in all sports and extra-curricular activities imaginable. And I walked the dog for an hour every day. Nobody made scads of money so that I could sit on my ass and write. I'm sure that will never happen. I would never let it appear that my writing is propelling my lifestyle, because it would be a big fat lie. My work ethic in my day job is the thing that gets me through. Writing is just an extra-curricular activity. I am not sponsored. lol. Although, my partner could probably technically sponsor me...I have no interest in being sponsored. I'll continue to steal snippets of time to jot down words. If I had to live on my writing's payout...I'm afraid I couldn't even afford a glass of Perrier to throw at the attic garret in the distance.

I saw that article as well, along with this one (the numbers are self-reported, so the percentiles are obviously not built from rigorous data; but I thought it was interesting nonetheless).

It did make me think. I write about 90 minutes a day because I have a full-time day job and a child (never mind I do like talking to my spouse from time to time ).

But here's my writer's privilege: My day job pays well and has fairly regular hours, rarely requiring me to work on weekends. As far as child care goes - we have family living nearby, and both sets of grandparents help out. Additionally, my spouse does his share of the kid stuff, which also gives me more time. (ETA He also has a full-time job. We'd have to adjust if one of us lost the day job, but financially we would survive.)

Any endeavour which requires a huge time commitment before resulting in income (if it ever does) is going to have to be subsidised one way or another. Yay, I sold a book! - but it took me years to write it, and all that writing wasn't paying a single bill. I won't speak for anyone else, but I sure couldn't have done it alone.

Most people never see daylight. It's all they can do to keep the lights on. It's getting worse, not better, with the great wealth divide in the US only growing wider and wider. I feel deeply for the 20 to 30 set, coming up in a climate that's never been more competitive, never been less forgiving, and so many of them with the weight of hefty student loan payments on their backs. It's no wonder many of them live with their parents well into their twenties. You throw a large city into the mix, with those rents and expenses, and you're talking near undoable. One bedroom apartments in any neighborhood in my city that's not dangerous go for at least $1,500. It's hard to find the mental space to be creative, to think of anything as lofty as creating art when you have to work two jobs to make the rent, and to not allow your loans to go into default. It's getting harder, not easier. How this wouldn't affect the quality and quantity of one's writing, or how it won't have a diminishing effect on the pool of work that will be out there for all of us to enjoy in the foreseeable future, I have no idea.

As for me, I run a business that takes up most of my time and energy. I'm on from early morning till ten o'clock at night, six days a week. When I sneak in here to have a peek or two, I am cheating myself. I don't know what it would be like to not have to work, to have a sponsor or to have come from money. I do wonder what that kind of freedom would have done for my writing. But then again, I wouldn't be the person I am now, so it's hard to imagine. But I would love to have the luxury of protracted focus. I doubt that I'd be a Michael Chabon, regardless, but I'd be better than I am now.

One of the questions I often get at book events relates to finding time to write. I have three young kids, a full-time job, and play several sports.

My privileges, I guess, are (a) having a wife who'll pick up almost ALL the home chores, and be primary for the kids, and (b) I write very quickly.

Last week I missed work, stuck on the couch b/c of a back injury. I wrote 30,000 words of a new novel. Imagine what I could do if I didn't have a day job!

I've had an excessive amount of free time on my hands because I'm not employed and going to school. It seems that no matter how much I apply, there's nothing out there for me. It leaves me with a lot of time in which to write, no money, and an enormous amount of guilt.

I read this the other day. My two takeaways:

1.) Don't quit your day job.
2.) Luck largely determines success when it comes to the creative arts.

Publius said:

1.) Don't quit your day job.

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Excellent advice. People should remember they can only be disappointed by their own expectations.

This is why I'm looking for someone to help me be a house husband.

Publius said:

I read this the other day. My two takeaways:

1.) Don't quit your day job.
2.) Luck largely determines success when it comes to the creative arts.

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I quit my day job. And the harder I work, the luckier I get. Funny that...

I know a few people who toot their own horn - in various ways- when it's not true. It is a bit irritating and/or funny when we know they really live off their spouse, pension, the government, inheritance, or whatever.

But just as pumping up your own achievements is rude, asking someone about it is rude too. It's kinda like saying, "So, did you really achieve anything worthwhile yourself or are you full of shit?" LOL.

It's easy enough to get an idea of what pays well and what doesn't. I doubt anyone with any sense would toss all their other options away and write full time just because one person said they made it big that way (whether it's true or not). Nobody owes the general public full disclosure of their personal business, imo.

Fruitbat said:

It's easy enough to get an idea of what pays well and what doesn't. I doubt anyone with any sense would toss all their other options away and write full time just because one person said they made it big that way (whether it's true or not). Nobody owes the general public full disclosure of their personal business, imo.

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I agree with you about the personal business. But I see people on these boards all the time with wildly unrealistic expectations, and often they become discouraged because that huge success doesn't arrive quickly enough (or at all).

I don't think any writer is obligated to disgorge personal financial information. At the same time, though, I do think people's expectations of how much money they can make (and how fast) can be incredibly skewed (mine was pretty far off), and it's hard to find statistics out there. I can't help but wish more established writers would talk about the reality of it - including, yes, how they paid their bills while they were working their way to the bestseller lists.

KTC said:

I was horrified by the one writer's attribution of 'because I didn't have kids' (my paraphrasing). Horrified! Not having kids allowed her to be a true artist???!!!

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I agree that it came out wrong (or was presented as if it had come out wrong) but at the same time, a lot of would-be authors are fighting to find time to write... and parenting, if you do it right, takes a HELL of a lot of time.

I write 4-6 novels a year while working a fairly demanding full-time job. I can do this because I don't watch TV and I don't have kids. So all the time that other people spend on TV and kids, I have for writing.

So, you know, it might not have been a "children suck all the creativity and energy out of people and leave them empty, broken shells" comment. Maybe more of a "time is finite, and I was able to spend a lot of time on writing because I don't have kids." Does that make it more palatable?

williemeikle said:

the harder I work, the luckier I get. Funny that...

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Same here

Sadly I still need the day job. At least until kids are flown and we relocate somewhere cheap. Until then...nose to the grindstone. Only a few more years...

During the economic collapse I lost my full time job and was on unemployment for just over a year then found a part time job. I couldn't afford to have a car, so I ride my bike and take a bus to work. The part time job turned out to be a blessing in disguise because I adapted and saved all sorts of money not having a car and I have lots of time to write. They have sense offered me a full time position, but I turned them down.

Hm, "show me yours"... OK.

I work 9-5 to support my family as the sole income earner while writing 2,000 words every day and waking up 3 hours before work to do it.

I wish I had the luxury of an alternate source of income to support the pursuit of my dream. People who do should count themselves fortunate. Until I make it with writing I'm going to be working my ass off in the meantime.

Great article.

williemeikle said:

I quit my day job. And the harder I work, the luckier I get. Funny that...

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Well la-dee-freakng-da!

Just kidding.

Glad to hear it.

I knew from the very beginning that I'd need a reliable source of income, and writing just ain't it. It's hard enough writing when you've got free time as a student, but I have yet to sell a single story, despite dedicated effort.

I know that I can produce 1,000 words a day, even with responsibilities. There are plenty of authors who write with full-time jobs. While getting published and being a "professional" is my ultimate goal, I'm happy just to keep doing it.

I've walked a different path with different types of people. For most of my 20s (I'm 29, now) I writing and performing within a tight knit community of people constantly creating something (books, music, etc). So the very stark reality was always there that when a creative's (or an artist is) around, be sure to dig a little deeper in your wallets. It had gotten to the point where it was a joke. But everyone cared for one another. So when you make bank, you share among friends because they've done it for you. When I was living off the money from a failed marriage, I lived a boho life on the LES in my own studio. The year's rent was paid for, and I was a sex worker so I had money to spend (and eventually save to complete college) and time to write. For the first time ever, I had parties in my house. And I was the one paying for people's dinners. And I went to the local bar and read out loud whatever I've been writing. Awesome times. Mind you, a lot of the ones who did have extra money didn't get it from their art (writing included in that). Boyfriends, husbands, sugar daddies, sugar babies - the money and where it came from didn't matter as much as the commitment to making art. And when we had ideas, we collaborated and had fun with it. When we made money, we were generous. If you were not generous, fun, or unwilling to play with others then what can you do?

As a writer among other creative people, there was never a reason to talk about where the money came from. No one pretended; it just wasn't a big deal. I don't why it has to be for everyone else. It was about the art itself, which we would do anyway. Whether we got paid for it was another matter. The business side. We knew the money was there, we just had to make sure our message was clear and we had the means to make things happen. It just would take time. And if that didn't work, you keep collaborating, making new projects, trying new things.

You know, I'm part of the generation that wasn't supposed to do as well as her parents. I'm not, by all intents and purposes. She has more money in her bank account. And a car. And is satisfied. I only have her love and support, plus all that comes with it. And my boyfriend's love too. And I have a chance to write books. I'm so grateful, my heart swells when I think it. It makes what I do so important, because I know I can do well as a writer. I can make money. Plenty of people have done it. Not only that, but I'm talented. And I've vetted my work. I'm f- -g ready to share & sell some books!

I doubt I could handle the anxiety from trying to write enough to earn a living. My day job gives me a high level of income security, which makes it easier to focus on writing in my spare time.

Besides, I love my day job. Even if I could make enough from writing to quit, I doubt I would.

Captcha said:

I agree that it came out wrong (or was presented as if it had come out wrong) but at the same time, a lot of would-be authors are fighting to find time to write... and parenting, if you do it right, takes a HELL of a lot of time.

I write 4-6 novels a year while working a fairly demanding full-time job. I can do this because I don't watch TV and I don't have kids. So all the time that other people spend on TV and kids, I have for writing.

So, you know, it might not have been a "children suck all the creativity and energy out of people and leave them empty, broken shells" comment. Maybe more of a "time is finite, and I was able to spend a lot of time on writing because I don't have kids." Does that make it more palatable?

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Nope. That's pretty much exactly how I took it... How you said.

KTC said:

Nope. That's pretty much exactly how I took it... How you said.

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And you will still horrified by it? It seems like simple reality to me.

I guess reality can be horrifying... but I don't really see why this example of reality is a problem.

lizmonster said:

IBut I see people on these boards all the time with wildly unrealistic expectations, and often they become discouraged because that huge success doesn't arrive quickly enough (or at all).

I can't help but wish more established writers would talk about the reality of it - including, yes, how they paid their bills while they were working their way to the bestseller lists.

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To be honest, once you start digging even a little bit you find plenty of people out there saying, "Keep your day job" and such. I don't think you need any statistics at all. I admit when I got writing seriously, I had those notions of fast sales and sudden, "What am I going to do with all this money?" wealth, but as soon as I started coming to sites like this on, that was blasted pretty much straight out of my head.

Captcha said:

And you will still horrified by it? It seems like simple reality to me.

I guess reality can be horrifying... but I don't really see why this example of reality is a problem.

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I did say it's a very personal and individual choice...so it's only my feeling that it's horrifying. I just can't imagine ANYTHING being something that I would say "I need to do this and dedicate myself fully to it, so...hmmm...no children. They're out." It's just me...I don't expect people who choose NOT to have children to need to justify their decision. For me, writing is just this thing I do. It gives me great joy and it's always pleasurable and fun. But having children...that was LIFE for me. I can't fathom in a million years giving that up for the ultimately pointless hobby/career/passion/etc of writing. My novel children are loved greatly, as is the rest of my writing life...but my flesh and blood children are my world...the one true reason I draw breath. So...to give that up to devote oneself to putting words on paper?! Horrifying is the word I choose. And I don't require a single person on the planet to agree with me, or even understand my decision.