Borders and Waldenbooks: Cowards

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William Haskins

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BUFFALO, N.Y. - Borders and Waldenbooks stores will not stock the April-May issue of Free Inquiry magazine because it contains cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that provoked deadly protests among Muslims in several countries.

<snip>

"We absolutely respect our customers' right to choose what they wish to read and buy and we support the First Amendment," Bingham said. "And we absolutely support the rights of Free Inquiry to publish the cartoons. We've just chosen not to carry this particular issue in our stores."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/ap_on_re_us/prophet_drawings_1
 

Peggy

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Maybe it's just me, but every time I hear one of these "x store won't sell my magazine/book" stories, I immediately suspect that it was engineered by the publication in question for the publicity. I sure as he** hadn't heard of Free Inquiry before this news item.
 

William Haskins

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seems like the borders representative would have mentioned that if it were the case...

but yes, let's not blame the corporate cowards.
 
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Stew21

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I think it truly just comes down to them being afraid. The media frenzy over the previous riots has them scared and they don't want any part of it. Thing is, by making a big deal of it, they just made it that much more desirable. Great big reminder to the public "this is out there and it is dangerous and controversial."
(as Homer Simpson would say *Doh!*) They just gave the sales to the folks that will carry it, because Borders/Waldens advertised this little bit of cartoon was out there and available, just not by them.
 

badducky

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By golly, that offends me so much that I'm going to burn down the next Borders or Waldenbooks I see!


If you aren't offending somebody, somewhere in the world, you probably aren't doing it right.

Even "The Cosby Show" is offensive to White Supremacists, and they're a bunch of violent, ignorant terror-mongers, too.
 

Forbidden Snowflake

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Well the thing is what happened over here and particularly in Danmark with the cartoons was horrible and if such thing can be avoided in the US, I'd say avoid it.

Even though of course, Freedom of Speech should be the first thing and most important thing everywhere and that would include bringing such things.
 

William Haskins

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Forbidden Snowflake said:
Well the thing is what happened over here and particularly in Danmark with the cartoons was horrible and if such thing can be avoided in the US, I'd say avoid it.

so, we should capitulate to threats (or even worse, potential threats) of violence?

so the message to those who would seek to inhibit free and open discourse is to threaten violence. PC race-baiters can get huck finn removed, fundie christians can get non-christian religious texts or anything that smacks of sacrilege removed, prudes can get anything of a sexual nature removed...

yes, it can be a brave new world where everyone buckles to fear.

what a nation of pussies we've become.
 

William Haskins

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robeiae said:
Are you gonna see Basic Instinct 2?

Rob :)

what do you think?

57157030.jpg
 

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William Haskins said:
seems like the borders representative would have mentioned that if it were the case...

but yes, let's not blame the corporate cowards.
I believe it's a mutually beneficial conspiracy in which the publishers get their publicity, while Borders gets out of carrying potentially objectionable material.

I think the capitulation to the implied threat of violence is dispicable*. By removing the material, it just encourages similar threats. They are wusses to not carry the publication, but in the corporate world, I suppose the possiblity of even non-violent protests threatens the bottom line.

I think it's worse that newspapers have refused to carry any of the cartoons, and some (college, I think) newspaper editors who did publish them have been fired. The cartoons are certainly newsworthy, so they should be covered in the news. What good is a newspaper if it never carries anything that has the potential to upset a portion of the population? Anyone who doesn't like it has the right to (non-violently) protest or write letters to the editor.

* I was going to say "means the terrorists have won", but that seemed too much like a sound bite.
 

Jcomp

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eh. weak move on their part, but worse things are happening in the world.
 

William Haskins

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yeah, why worry about the neighbor kicking the sh1t out of his kid when there are other kids are starving in africa...
 

brokenfingers

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Sorry, but I think this is a total non-issue.

It’s a corporate decision and it’s totally their right to make it – without a bunch of wild-eyed screaming about first amendment rights being infringed upon or threatened.

Who the hell appointed them the guardians of free speech, anyway? They’re a business. That’s it. An entity designed to make money for a group of people. They have made a business decision to not carry a product. Whoopdie-freakin-doo.

And free speech laws were designed so the government could not limit what the common man chooses to say and has no bearing whatsoever on a private entity like Borders and Waldenbooks. If they don’t want to carry that magazine or any product – who gives a sh!t. I don’t have stock in them.

So, excuse me if I don’t get riled up because these bookstores are not helping Free Inquiry make more money pushing controversial pics people want to see.

If the government told them they couldn’t sell it, then Ok – I’d be as outraged as the next guy. But that’s not the case so, like I said, so freakin’ what.

If anybody wants to see these cartoons, there must be at least a million places on the web you can see them – for free. I have absolutely no interest in viewing them at all and couldn’t care less. As far as I’m concerned anyone who wants to see them now is only entertaining their voyeuristic tendencies – akin to watching the smouldering bodies in the carwreck by the side of the road.

So when people shout about how our right to free speech is being threatened because a chain of bookstores decide not to pander makes me laugh.

And who in the hell is capitulating to threats? You? Me? Our government? Our institutions? Sounds to me like it’s just a private entity – and that is their right to do so. Just as it’s your right or mine to put ourselves and our families/employess in jeopardy or not.

The thought that Muslims in the Mideast are cheering in victory over whether Borders sells this magazine makes me laugh. They want western influence out of their countries – period. They want Israel destroyed and American influence removed.

To me this borders on hysterics and hyperbole.

No we haven’t become a nation of pussies – we’ve become a nation of whiners.

This country is overflowing with people who sit safely behind their desks and *****, moan and argue endlessly about trivial bullsh!t;

- who lounge around and get high and drunk and screw and b!tch about the state of the world and debate the semantics of the oh-so-important fine print in the meaning of life contract;

- who sit on their couches and complain about what our politicians are doing but don’t get involved in the process;

- who watch soundbites and rant and rave about things going on overseas and how our government is spending our money – yet want that same government to protect them.

Anybody who’s upset because the Muslim world gets riled up when their religious icon is shown in a disrespectful light should either

a) find a way to wrest control of the masses from the elements in Muslim society that use these things against the west for their own agenda; or


b) find someone who does have a plan to deal with them and work to get them elected, or


c) spend their energy coming up with a plan to deal with Radical Islam, or


d) refrain from portraying Mohammed in a way that seriously upsets them or be prepared to deal with the consequences.

To get mad at the people of Borders and Waldenbooks is a complete waste of energy, to me.
 

SC Harrison

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brokenfingers said:
- who lounge around and get high and drunk and screw and b!tch about the state of the world and debate the semantics of the oh-so-important fine print in the meaning of life contract;

So...this is not the American Dream?

I'm always like three days behind everybody else.
 

William Haskins

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brokenfingers said:
Sorry, but I think this is a total non-issue.

It’s a corporate decision and it’s totally their right to make it – without a bunch of wild-eyed screaming about first amendment rights being infringed upon or threatened.

Who the hell appointed them the guardians of free speech, anyway? They’re a business. That’s it. An entity designed to make money for a group of people. They have made a business decision to not carry a product. Whoopdie-freakin-doo.

And free speech laws were designed so the government could not limit what the common man chooses to say and has no bearing whatsoever on a private entity like Borders and Waldenbooks. If they don’t want to carry that magazine or any product – who gives a sh!t. I don’t have stock in them.

So, excuse me if I don’t get riled up because these bookstores are not helping Free Inquiry make more money pushing controversial pics people want to see.

If the government told them they couldn’t sell it, then Ok – I’d be as outraged as the next guy. But that’s not the case so, like I said, so freakin’ what.

If anybody wants to see these cartoons, there must be at least a million places on the web you can see them – for free. I have absolutely no interest in viewing them at all and couldn’t care less. As far as I’m concerned anyone who wants to see them now is only entertaining their voyeuristic tendencies – akin to watching the smouldering bodies in the carwreck by the side of the road.

So when people shout about how our right to free speech is being threatened because a chain of bookstores decide not to pander makes me laugh.

And who in the hell is capitulating to threats? You? Me? Our government? Our institutions? Sounds to me like it’s just a private entity – and that is their right to do so. Just as it’s your right or mine to put ourselves and our families/employess in jeopardy or not.

The thought that Muslims in the Mideast are cheering in victory over whether Borders sells this magazine makes me laugh. They want western influence out of their countries – period. They want Israel destroyed and American influence removed.

To me this borders on hysterics and hyperbole.

No we haven’t become a nation of pussies – we’ve become a nation of whiners.

This country is overflowing with people who sit safely behind their desks and *****, moan and argue endlessly about trivial bullsh!t;

- who lounge around and get high and drunk and screw and b!tch about the state of the world and debate the semantics of the oh-so-important fine print in the meaning of life contract;

- who sit on their couches and complain about what our politicians are doing but don’t get involved in the process;

- who watch soundbites and rant and rave about things going on overseas and how our government is spending our money – yet want that same government to protect them.

Anybody who’s upset because the Muslim world gets riled up when their religious icon is shown in a disrespectful light should either

a) find a way to wrest control of the masses from the elements in Muslim society that use these things against the west for their own agenda; or


b) find someone who does have a plan to deal with them and work to get them elected, or


c) spend their energy coming up with a plan to deal with Radical Islam, or


d) refrain from portraying Mohammed in a way that seriously upsets them or be prepared to deal with the consequences.

To get mad at the people of Borders and Waldenbooks is a complete waste of energy, to me.

straw man. never mentioned the first amendment.
 

Jcomp

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William Haskins said:
yeah, why worry about the neighbor kicking the sh1t out of his kid when there are other kids are starving in africa...

Or starving kids at the other next door neighbor's house...
 

brokenfingers

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I wasn't pointing any fingers at you, Hask. But was going by the article:
BUFFALO, N.Y. - Borders and Waldenbooks stores will not stock the April-May issue of Free Inquiry magazine because it contains cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that provoked deadly protests among Muslims in several countries.
"We absolutely respect our customers' right to choose what they wish to read and buy and we support the First Amendment," Bingham said. "And we absolutely support the rights of Free Inquiry to publish the cartoons. We've just chosen not to carry this particular issue in our stores."

The way it's worded it implies it's a free speech/first amendment issue.

Plus there are these quotes form other posts that made it seem like a free speech issue:

Yeah, OK. They support free speech as long as someone else is selling it.

Even though of course, Freedom of Speech should be the first thing and most important thing everywhere and that would include bringing such things.

so the message to those who would seek to inhibit free and open discourse is to threaten violence. PC race-baiters can get huck finn removed, fundie christians can get non-christian religious texts or anything that smacks of sacrilege removed, prudes can get anything of a sexual nature removed...
 

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brokenfingers said:
Sorry, but I think this is a total non-issue.

It’s a corporate decision and it’s totally their right to make it – without a bunch of wild-eyed screaming about first amendment rights being infringed upon or threatened.

Yes, I agree. This is similar to the thread about the book being sold on Amazon.

A book store can decide what they do and do not carry for any reason they want. It could be because they don't want to deal with people's reactions, or it could be because they, personally find it objectionable. Either way, it's their call to make. What if this were the "pedophile" book that they were choosing not to carry?

Is there a reason why Borders and Waldenbooks customers need to have access to these cartoons, and cannot seek them out for themselves?
 

William Haskins

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i never said they have to carry anything they don't want to carry. i just said it was cowardly to carry the feb-march issue and the june-july issue, and not carry the april-may issue.

it seems antithetical to the mission of a bookstore.

but hey, as long as the sheep just shrug, let it roll.

maybe one day it'll be your book.
 

Jcomp

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William Haskins said:
i never said they have to carry anything they don't want to carry. i just said it was cowardly to carry the feb-march issue and the june-july issue, and not carry the april-may issue.

it seems antithetical to the mission of a bookstore.

but hey, as long as the sheep just shrug, let it roll.

maybe one day it'll be your book.

and get pub like this? I'll take it.
 

William Haskins

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publicity ain't sh1t if no one will sell your book.

remember that even amazon is in bed with borders and waldenbooks.

book banning, book burning, persecution of artists and general suppression of public discourse never fall in one fell swoop. they're incremental and the radical conclusion of seemingly meaningless steps along the way.
 

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William Haskins said:
BUFFALO, N.Y. - Borders and Waldenbooks stores will not stock the April-May issue of Free Inquiry magazine because it contains cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that provoked deadly protests among Muslims in several countries.

<snip>

"We absolutely respect our customers' right to choose what they wish to read and buy and we support the First Amendment," Bingham said. "And we absolutely support the rights of Free Inquiry to publish the cartoons. We've just chosen not to carry this particular issue in our stores."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/ap_on_re_us/prophet_drawings_1

Um, as a person who actually lives in Buffalo, NY, I should point out that it's a very volatile region and people are already in throat-ripping moods over this Delphi thing, threatening strikes, riots. It's best not to provoke people at present. Just thought you might appreciate the weighing-in of a local:)
 

William Haskins

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i appreciate your perspective (and i understand the power of fear) but it doesn't change how i feel in the slightest.
 
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