Removing a liver

MarkEsq

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Not mine, I'm keeping it for now.

But I have a killer who wants to remove the livers of his victims, to create the illusion of organ trafficking. I'd like to know a few details, such as:

-- how bloody would it be?
-- how long would it take?
-- are there any bodily impediments (muscles etc) getting to the organ
-- how much medical knowledge would one need, could it be learned on the internet, could a nurse do it? A vet?!

Thanks!
 

DocMac

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If he just wants to remove it for it to be gone (ie not actually transplant it or keep the donor alive, it's pretty simple. Requires a sharp knife and decent knowledge of anatomy, so yeah a vet could (that's what I am) or someone who did some research on anatomy could do that. But I suspect that if a doctor who performed real transplants looked at how it was removed they would be able to tell that it was not removed in a way that left the organ able to be used because 1) certain blood vessels and attachments need to be cut at specific points and 2) the donor has to be alive while organs are being harvested which generally means a need for anesthesia.

In theory, I guess someone could just remove the entire liver and vessels as quickly as possible and possibly end up with a transplantable organ (I know that your killer isn't transplanting them, but it wouldn't be an effective distraction if it's easy to disprove)

On to the rest, I don't know exactly how it would be done by a human doctor, but when I've needed to get to the liver, I make and incision through the skin, fat and muscles just below the ribs, on the front of the stomach. Then reach up under the ribs to touch the lobes of the liver. Just have to push small intestines and stomach out of the way.

To actually remove the liver, all the attachments and blood vessels are on the far side from what you see from an incision in the stomach (ie toward the persons head and back). The bulk of the cutting would be done be feel. (I've never removed a liver in a live animal, only during autopsy. But the anatomy between a human and dog is nearly identical in this part of the body).

To just cut it out and not attempt to stop the bleeding would only take a couple minutes if the person had a good grasp on the anatomy. And it would be horribly bloody on a live or very recently dead person (throw a gallon of milk on the floor and imagine it was blood)

Sorry for the wordiness. This was probably way more than you needed or wanted :)
 

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Not mine, I'm keeping it for now.

But I have a killer who wants to remove the livers of his victims, to create the illusion of organ trafficking. I'd like to know a few details, such as:

-- how bloody would it be?
-- how long would it take?
-- are there any bodily impediments (muscles etc) getting to the organ
-- how much medical knowledge would one need, could it be learned on the internet, could a nurse do it? A vet?!

Thanks!
As Doc said, if the killer wants the experts to think this is organ trafficking, then the killer needs to take it out precisely as if the organ were going to be used for transplant. Keep it alive, keep it intact, make sure all the connecting vessels are cut in just the right place.

Given the plethora of YouTube videos out there, it's possible a smart person with a good basic medical background could learn to do it well enough to simulate a half-arsed surgeon (and, let's face it, organ traffickers probably aren't Harvard Medical School grade surgeons).

It would be quite bloody, since the liver is very heavily vascularised; it would probably take a few hours; and there's no bone or major muscles in the way -- if you're doing a hack and slash job, just open the peritoneum (e.g. slice down from breastbone to navel), and the liver is the great big thing just under the diaphragm (below the ribs).

Adding: To be honest, he might be better off going for the kidneys; they're more in demand as transplant organs, and they're easier to 'keep alive' to transport to the recipient.
 
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MarkEsq

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DocMac and Unmportant, thanks SO much. That's precisely the kind of info I needed, and I can easily switch to the kidneys. Smaller ziplock bags needed....!

Thanks again guys, and Merry Christmas. :)