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Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 02:03 AM
I'm writing a four novel series based off of North, South, East, and West. They are quadruplets born to a god and goddess of the earth and sky. Rulers of a race called Statera's which means balance in Latin.

With a shift of balance in our world caused by their father, these four children are destined to bring that balance back.

What I'm trying to do is twist both mythology and biblical together and link them with my own mythological race.

The problem I'm having is what powers I should give them. I was thinking about using energy as a conduit to control earth, wind, water, and fire without actually out right mentioning them controlling it or just vaguely enough where it's not noticeable. I don't want my novel to be reminded of Avatar the last air bender

Second, I'm about to pull apart my novel because I need to set them on a journey to find items that they'll need to retrieve in order to enter into their world and set someone free. But I can't seem to figure out where.

I know my explanation is a bit vague, but if you need more info, just let me know and I'll give you more details.

Thank you!
Mary

morngnstar
11-19-2014, 03:35 AM
Hey. There is definitely a lot you can study that might help you with inspiration. Definitely read Joseph Campbell if you haven't already. George Dumezil is another well-known theorist of comparative mythology.

What pantheons are you thinking about? You should probably be aware that many are related. There are two kinds of relationships, just as in linguistics. There are "cognate" gods, that have their origin in the same god in a prehistoric time, but underwent slightly different revision in different cultures. For example *Dyeus (star means reconstructed, not attested) became Zeus, Jupiter (Deus Pater), Dyaus Pitar in Sanskrit, and Tyr / Tiwaz in Germanic myth. Some of these lost importance and became minor gods, like Tyr who's in historical times less significant than Odin and Thor. Then there are borrowed gods, like Aphrodite, who's related to middle Eastern Ishtar and Astarte. Greek and Canaanite myths have no common origin, but Ishtar was just popular and caught on in Greece and was given a Greek name. Then on the other hand, the ancients often tried to make a connection between gods that modern scholars think is mistaken. One of the deepest rooted examples is the supposed synonymy between Greek and Roman gods, but, for example, Poseidon and Neptune both have different origins and not quite the same attributes. Later, Romans even tried to match their gods to Germanic and Celtic ones. Matching Odin to Mercury strikes me as quite sketchy. You want to decide if versions of the same god from different cultures will appear in your story, and if so will there be any significance to that.

morngnstar
11-19-2014, 03:46 AM
I'd encourage you to look for a metaphorical meaning to you story. What is the significance of being out of balance? Do you see something out of balance in the real world? Make or find a mythological metaphor for that and make it the object of your story's quest. What actions need to be taken in the real world to restore balance? Make the items they seek be representations of those actions. What attitudes are needed to learn those behaviors? Symbolize those with the powers your heroes have innately.

Once you have picked out the meanings you want to convey, scour myth for appropriate symbols to represent them.

Or just read a bunch of myths, and weave them together and retell them. Myths already come with a meaning. You can just let theirs shine through if you're not trying to convey a meaning of your own.

King Neptune
11-19-2014, 03:47 AM
There are traditional properties associated with the directions, but I can't remember them. The Philosophy of Practical Magic by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa surely has them, and there probably are online sources that would help. http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agrippa2.htm
It is online.

Mr Flibble
11-19-2014, 03:52 AM
Forgive me for what is probably a silly question, but I am not well versed in teh Bible (read: I am aware it is a book that has significance to a lot of people. I recognise some of the names..)

How is this a biblical twist? I can't see anything biblical there? I can see a lot of "mythology" though.*

I am notoriously not with the program in this regard.



* quotes are because some of the things I do see might actually be involved in some people's religions. And they like it as much as Christians when the bible is called mythology. :)

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 03:55 AM
@morngnstar I wasn't going to go into too much depth about each pantheon. I don't want to take away the focus of my own mythological race. The idea was just to skim the surface of each to bring them together. Not all of course, that would overwhelm not just the readers, but even me...hehehe

I have to look it up in my outline, but to name a few. Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, and Nordic. Of course, that could change too if I feel it doesn't fit in my story.

SunshineonMe
11-19-2014, 03:55 AM
These are great questions! I don't have a lot to add other than to say your story sounds very interesting!

E.F.B.
11-19-2014, 04:22 AM
Forgive me for what is probably a silly question, but I am not well versed in teh Bible (read: I am aware it is a book that has significance to a lot of people. I recognise some of the names..)

How is this a biblical twist? I can't see anything biblical there? I can see a lot of "mythology" though.*

I am notoriously not with the program in this regard.



* quotes are because some of the things I do see might actually be involved in some people's religions. And they like it as much as Christians when the bible is called mythology. :)

I'm well versed in the Bible and I don't see a biblical twist either. Maybe the "enter into their world and set someone free" part has something to do with it? I don't know. *shrugs*

As for the OP question, I don't have a lot to add except, yes, you need to be careful that the whole earth, wind, fire, and air thing doesn't become reminiscent of Avatar the Last Airbender because that's the first thing I thought of when you listed those things.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 04:23 AM
@Mr Fibble and @ Sunshine Sorry I'm still new and I still can't figure out how to quote just the parts I want to answer.

This new race of people I've created are recycled souls, kind of like a sort of heaven. The four children's father is King Neveah spelled backwards is "Heaven." He is the son of God, his wife is Lilith who is mother earths daughter. Yes, I know in Jewish religion she is known to be the actual first woman made equal to Adam.
But in my novel I made her Gaia's daughter, I brought these two together and made them rulers of a new race called the Statera's. Their sole purpose was to watch over the humans and make sure everyone was at peace. If the other mythological gods interfered they were dealt with immediately. Hence the twisted stories.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 04:32 AM
I know it still seems a bit vague, but I keep getting distracted by my kids. I'll stay online, but please feel free to keep asking me questions. And as soon as I get them settled I'll answer them.

Mr Flibble
11-19-2014, 04:42 AM
@Mr Fibble and @ Sunshine Sorry I'm still new and I still can't figure out how to quote just the parts I want to answer.

Just to the right of the quote button is another -- this is the multiquote. Hit that on all the quotes you want to post, hit reply and bingo, they will all show up as quotes i your post




This new race of people I've created are recycled souls, kind of like a sort of heaven. The four children's father is King Neveah spelled backwards is "Heaven." He is the son of God, his wife is Lilith who is mother earths daughter. Yes, I know in Jewish religion she is known to be the actual first woman made equal to Adam.
But in my novel I made her Gaia's daughter, I brought these two together and made them rulers of a new race called the Statera's. Their sole purpose was to watch over the humans and make sure everyone was at peace. If the other mythological gods interfered they were dealt with immediately. Hence the twisted stories.



The biblical thing makes more sense now :D

Anyway, the question you'll get in this forum is..what powers do you want them to have? Which fit the story? The world you have built? You can do ANYTHING. The only restrictions are your imagination. I can name you 8 books off the top of my head that have elemental magic a la airbender, so don;t worry about that. It's what you do with it that counts. *


* as the actress said to the bishop

PS - you realise that Avatar Airbender wasn't anywhere near original in using the elements as the basis for magic? Only in it how it used them?

EETA I should probably not I am aware that Lilith is a biblical??? person, and I then assume Gaia is? Should I be infering anything from it???? Because they are just names to me

Basically you lost me very early on. But I may not be your audience.

King Neptune
11-19-2014, 05:00 AM
@Mr Fibble and @ Sunshine Sorry I'm still new and I still can't figure out how to quote just the parts I want to answer.

This new race of people I've created are recycled souls, kind of like a sort of heaven. The four children's father is King Neveah spelled backwards is "Heaven." He is the son of God, his wife is Lilith who is mother earths daughter. Yes, I know in Jewish religion she is known to be the actual first woman made equal to Adam.
But in my novel I made her Gaia's daughter, I brought these two together and made them rulers of a new race called the Statera's. Their sole purpose was to watch over the humans and make sure everyone was at peace. If the other mythological gods interfered they were dealt with immediately. Hence the twisted stories.

So you're just stirring the Gods and Goddesses around a little and trying to make a new story. That can work. People have been doing that for the last 6000 years (or longer), and the priests usually made money, at least.

introvertedwife
11-19-2014, 05:06 AM
So you're just stirring the Gods and Goddesses around a little and trying to make a new story. That can work. People have been doing that for the last 4000 years (or longer), and the priests usually made money, at least.

For Lo, the great Lord Frankenstein did yanketh the holy stake from the Creature's body and drove it deep into the Father of All Lie's chest, and thus Dracula did fade from this world. Then Frankie and the Wolfman went for froyo.

morngnstar
11-19-2014, 05:08 AM
You may want to include the Hindu and Central American gods. Otherwise you're only drawing from the area around Europe and the Mediterranean.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 05:22 AM
See there in lies my problem. This new race of mythological beings are supposed to help the humans who in turn keep the earth at peace. Since they are really God's creation. Humans sense of free will tends to get warped into greed and selfishness which caused King Neveah to become angry. He didn't see a reason to keep them alive, so he tried to destroy them. That is where the shift in balance started. His father and Lilith would help the humans after each catastrophe he caused. Soon he became too powerful, when Lilith finally left him she was pregnant with all four of his children.
I had her give up her immortality and powers in order to bind their unborn childrens so they can hid from him. Then with her death a day after their eighteenth birthday's their journey begins to become rulers of the four corners.

I have been using energy for one sibling to control the earth around her with the help of her guide. But I'm stuck right now. I threw in a third character named Forseti he's not a well-known god of the Nordic myth, so it was easier for me to make up his personality. He was only meant to bring conflict to my main two who is Valhalla and Orion, but I realized I backed myself into a corner with him.

Basically I've got too much going on and I don't know where to start. I'm frustrated as hell and for some reason I'm not really feeling my characters anymore, if you know what I mean.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 05:26 AM
You may want to include the Hindu and Central American gods. Otherwise you're only drawing from the area around Europe and the Mediterranean.

Thank you! I'll definitely look that up. I have a map saved of all the hemispheres as a guide to see where I need to look up each mythology base, but you understand what I'm trying to do.:D

King Neptune
11-19-2014, 05:44 AM
For Lo, the great Lord Frankenstein did yanketh the holy stake from the Creature's body and drove it deep into the Father of All Lie's chest, and thus Dracula did fade from this world. Then Frankie and the Wolfman went for froyo.

Have a merry time.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 05:55 AM
So you're just stirring the Gods and Goddesses around a little and trying to make a new story. That can work. People have been doing that for the last 4000 years (or longer), and the priests usually made money, at least.

Just about every story or movie ever made is too. Maybe not as long as what my novel is about, but at least it's interesting because it got you to comment on it. ;)

Brightdreamer
11-19-2014, 06:05 AM
EETA I should probably not I am aware that Lilith is a biblical??? person, and I then assume Gaia is? Should I be infering anything from it???? Because they are just names to me


Gaia's a Greek name for the Mother Goddess - IIRC, she predates the Bible, but makes no appearance in it, save in some symbolic interpretations written by scholars who like to interpret symbolism. (Never read the thing, myself, so don't quote me on that.) Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29)

And, as mentioned upthread, Lilith's name is kicked around in relation to Jewish/Christian texts - as the lore has developed, she was considered the first wife of Adam, but wasn't sufficiently submissive. She then became a mother to demons; she often appears as the Mother of Monsters, the creator of succubi or vampires, or in some other subversive role that Good People naturally find reprehensible. (Her name is also kicked around in some feminist circles as a Girl Power/Defamation of Women thing, and as a symbol for corrupted female goddesses being unfairly demonized... names tend to get kicked around an awful lot when they've been around a while.) Wikipedia Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith)

As to the OP's idea, sounds like it could be interesting, but it's all in the execution. Be sure to do your homework, though - you're playing around with a story many people are very familiar with, so when you do change things up, do it for a purpose and not out of ignorance. (Same goes for using any establish mythology/religion as an inspiration...)

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 06:30 AM
@brightdreamer Yes I have done my homework on both Gaia and Lilith. That's why my novel started off with Lilith's death, she will appear to her kids from time to time throughout their journey and then come back in the end.

I already have a rough outline of what will happen with each child and who their counterparts are. Their powers are still up in the air, but I usually figure things out pretty fast. Eventually their names will change, not the parents just the kids, because I need them to match with each part of the world they will be ruling.

Valhalla was originally supposed to rule the north, but with her personality and her being the first one to come out I want her at the East.

Like I mentioned before, so much to do. I just have to buckle down and start. My tablet is filled with screenshots, bookmarks of websites,.......etc.

I have over 50k words written in my novel right now, still not even closed to finished.
By the way what is OP?

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 06:38 AM
The genre I'm writing this for is both YA and adult. I don't believe in limiting myself to just one. So I'm going to walk that fine line in-between.
I also want a lot of action and romance. Right now I have too much action, I need to balance that out with more romance.

Once!
11-19-2014, 03:02 PM
Some random thoughts ...

Inventing a mythology is part of the fun of writing science fiction and fantasy. But we need to tread a fine line between using acceptable norms and becoming clichéd.

Basing characters on the elements? Well, yes, but we have seen that a lot. It can be done well, but it might also feel like a rip-off. You might want to give it a twist - say to use the four humours instead of earth, wind, water and fire.

I would be a little nervous about making the mythology too neat. Real mythologies tend to be messier and more organic than invented ones. Gods turn themselves into bulls or swans and impregnate human women ... I was never quite sure how that worked, but hey, what do I know? We have God A feuding with God B over the affections of God C.

By contrast, fictional mythologies can be computer gamey logical. We have exactly the right number of gods. Their powers are symmetrical and carefully thought out. And you can't help feeling that someone sat down and designed all of this.

Characters retrieving items in order to do some thing? That screams "video game" to me. It's a trick that computer games designers use time and again. You have to find the X parts of the sacred whatnot of thingy before you can move to the next level. It's a good way to get the player to visit all parts of the map before they move on.

But while it sort of works in a computer game it can get a bit tedious in a book. Chapter one - our hero finds the first part of the fabled sceptre of Dibbery. Chapter two - he finds the second part. Chapter three - he finds the third part ...

You've got some interesting ideas in your story line - I'd just caution about making it too neat and computer-gamey. Get some characters in there interacting with each other.

Mary_MO
11-19-2014, 04:37 PM
I was thinking the same thing at first, so when I wrote the scene I took it out. Now I need to put it back in somewhere because I realized I need a way for them to get their mother out.
Damn, I knew I had a reason why I took it out in the first place. It seemed too gamey to me then when I wrote the scene and I could see it playing out that way in the end.
I'll have to think of something else, right now my mind is pulling it's self apart.

Finally, my characters don't agree with the idea of looking for items. I'm going to go have a talk with them, they've been giving me the silent treatment for days now and I'm pissed.

EMaree
11-19-2014, 05:42 PM
The genre I'm writing this for is both YA and adult. I don't believe in limiting myself to just one. So I'm going to walk that fine line in-between.
I also want a lot of action and romance. Right now I have too much action, I need to balance that out with more romance.

Hm. You've got a lot of different religious influences here, and on top of that you're adding in a fuzzy genre combination and an unclear age bracket?

By all means, have fun in the first draft, but I wonder if you're creating more work for yourself later when you have to categorise and query all of this. Do it if you need to to get through the first draft, but please keep in mind the difficulties this could cause for you later.

BethS
11-19-2014, 05:56 PM
Finally, my characters don't agree with the idea of looking for items. I'm going to go have a talk with them, they've been giving me the silent treatment for days now and I'm pissed.

Listen to them. When your characters won't cooperate with a plan you've laid out for them, it's likely a sign that your gut (which is often where much wisdom about stories and storytelling resides) is trying to tell you something.

First and foremost, you need to tell a story. Good stories are rife with good conflict. Find out from your characters* what they really want; it appears that looking for items isn't it.

(*Chances are, they won't tell you until you give them free rein to work out their own destinies in the story itself.)

Lillith1991
11-19-2014, 06:16 PM
The genre I'm writing this for is both YA and adult. I don't believe in limiting myself to just one. So I'm going to walk that fine line in-between.
I also want a lot of action and romance. Right now I have too much action, I need to balance that out with more romance.

Um. This makes me worry about your story truthfully, it isn't a very smart business move to market the book as "having crossover appeal." More likely is that it will possibly worry agents because you don't know who you're writing for, and will be hard for them to sell if you're going the trade publishing route. It isn't a belief about limiting oneself or not, but a business choice.

I've never been published, but I catergorize my ideas mentally between adult and YA. Could I write a story meant for both markets? Yea, sure, you betcha I could. But I don't expect agents to pick up the story for the reason stated above. If it was me I would make the story one or the other. It is the audience and not the author who dictates if a story appeals to both markets. JK Rowling didn't write HP as having crossover appeal, she wrote it for kids, it was the popularity that eventually gave it such an appeal.

Nightibis
11-20-2014, 12:44 AM
Might I suggest the following powers:

For North, cold powers. We refer to the North for most cold weather events in the Northern hemisphere.

For East, some sort of power based on sunlight, whether it be heat related or some sort of variance of Light. (Since you want to stay away from the four elements.) Or possibly birth, or life, since that is where in most legends the Sun is created anew each day.

For West, the opposite of East. Powers over darkness, Death, creatures of the night. (Same reason, it's where the sun goes to die)

South, Haha...My mind goes straight to an image of Dr. McCoy on Star Trek with his Georgia Drawl and mint Juleps. Weird thought here, what about the power to never lose ones direction? Since from a compass point of view, no matter where they stand they are facing North. Odd one I know. Maybe something to do with the Southern Cross..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux....Read this and see if something catches your eye. It was important to many cultures in the Southern Hemisphere.

The real trick is knowing what powers your story needs. I could see a real boon in having a character that can never be lost, always knows where they are going, and what direction they need to move in, physically, spiritually, and metaphorically. Imagine if they suddenly lost their way?

Hope that helps you get started and good luck.

EMaree
11-20-2014, 01:26 AM
Might I suggest the following powers:

For North, cold powers. We refer to the North for most cold weather events in the Northern hemisphere.

For East, some sort of power based on sunlight, whether it be heat related or some sort of variance of Light. (Since you want to stay away from the four elements.) Or possibly birth, or life, since that is where in most legends the Sun is created anew each day.

For West, the opposite of East. Powers over darkness, Death, creatures of the night. (Same reason, it's where the sun goes to die)

South, Haha...My mind goes straight to an image of Dr. McCoy on Star Trek with his Georgia Drawl and mint Juleps. Weird thought here, what about the power to never lose ones direction? Since from a compass point of view, no matter where they stand they are facing North. Odd one I know. Maybe something to do with the Southern Cross..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux....Read this and see if something catches your eye. It was important to many cultures in the Southern Hemisphere.

The real trick is knowing what powers your story needs. I could see a real boon in having a character that can never be lost, always knows where they are going, and what direction they need to move in, physically, spiritually, and metaphorically. Imagine if they suddenly lost their way?

Hope that helps you get started and good luck.

Oooh, I *love* this idea! I'd suggest for South, rain powers -- tropical, rainforest stuff, very nature and earth-based, with strong links to equatorial culture: Africa's got a massive wealth of myths, and if you mixed that with Japan and Korean mythology, holy snap. That's not even touching on many other places the equator touches, and the potential conflicts between darkness-leaning South West and light-leaning South East sides of the equator.

I absolutely adore this idea. Nightibis, I might need your permission to run off with it one day and try my own version...

Nightibis
11-20-2014, 02:07 AM
Have at it Emaree. Anything I put out here is up for grabs or I wouldn't post it.

Mr Flibble
11-20-2014, 02:15 AM
Way to make a good first impression Nightibis. Nice idea!

BabySealWriter
11-20-2014, 09:28 AM
I was thinking the same thing at first, so when I wrote the scene I took it out. Now I need to put it back in somewhere because I realized I need a way for them to get their mother out.
Damn, I knew I had a reason why I took it out in the first place. It seemed too gamey to me then when I wrote the scene and I could see it playing out that way in the end.
I'll have to think of something else, right now my mind is pulling it's self apart.

Finally, my characters don't agree with the idea of looking for items. I'm going to go have a talk with them, they've been giving me the silent treatment for days now and I'm pissed.


Also, keep in mind, AW is the coolest place in the world to get direct feedback for your writing, ideas, problems, etc. but it is not the end all be all of your WIP. Everyone here will have different ideas on how best to approach an issue. You should digest and store the advice your receive here, at least at the beginning. If you pull your brain apart attempting to add every members critique or idea to your writing, you will never write anything. Write what you want to write. Review what your peers have offered. Clean up what you have written by using what your peers have offered.

Mary_MO
11-20-2014, 02:35 PM
I read some of the concerns about the type of genre I'm writing for, so I've decided I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'll just complete my novel, have my friend whom I've dubbed as my own beta reader since she's the one who has been critiquing my work so far and then do my research on publishers, etc.

There's no use for undo worry when I haven't even finished.

Mary_MO
11-20-2014, 02:50 PM
Might I suggest the following powers:

For North, cold powers. We refer to the North for most cold weather events in the Northern hemisphere.

For East, some sort of power based on sunlight, whether it be heat related or some sort of variance of Light. (Since you want to stay away from the four elements.) Or possibly birth, or life, since that is where in most legends the Sun is created anew each day.

For West, the opposite of East. Powers over darkness, Death, creatures of the night. (Same reason, it's where the sun goes to die)

South, Haha...My mind goes straight to an image of Dr. McCoy on Star Trek with his Georgia Drawl and mint Juleps. Weird thought here, what about the power to never lose ones direction? Since from a compass point of view, no matter where they stand they are facing North. Odd one I know. Maybe something to do with the Southern Cross..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux....Read this and see if something catches your eye. It was important to many cultures in the Southern Hemisphere.

The real trick is knowing what powers your story needs. I could see a real boon in having a character that can never be lost, always knows where they are going, and what direction they need to move in, physically, spiritually, and metaphorically. Imagine if they suddenly lost their way?

Hope that helps you get started and good luck.

I like some the suggestions you've listed. Although I wish I had the power to never lose direction. I'm the worst when it comes to that. :D
Thank you!

Mary_MO
11-21-2014, 12:45 AM
In my story I have Valhalla worried about her siblings since I had them separated soon after their mother's funeral which is where I also introduced them to their guides.

The first novel is about Valhalla and Orion (names will change later) who are destined to be together, but I threw in this third character Foresti(whom I will also change to be a god from the east). Forseti is this sarcastic, egotistical, and arrogant god who is a life long friend of Orion. The problem is my friend and I fell in love with Forseti instead of Orion. Now, I'm just brainstorming here.

Why not let Valhalla and Forseti continue to build their relationship since I was going to get her pregnant with his child anyways and then kill him off. Yeah I know messed up, I've already been told that. I have my sadistic reasonings.:D

I don't want Valhalla to seem like a, for lack of a better word "slut". How long should I have to wait before I have Orion step in to seduce her? Or can I end my novel there and start the next series?
I don't want to wait too long since the rest of them are also learning to master their powers and trying to get along with their counterparts as well.

King Neptune
11-21-2014, 01:31 AM
In my story I have Valhalla worried about her siblings since I had them separated soon after their mother's funeral which is where I also introduced them to their guides.

The first novel is about Valhalla and Orion (names are tentative to change later) who are destined to be together, but I threw in this third character Foresti(whom I will also change to be a god from the east). Forseti is this sarcastic, egotistical, and arrogant god who is a life long friend of Orion. The problem is my friend and I fell in love with Forseti instead of Orion. Now, I'm just brainstorming here.

Why not let Valhalla and Forseti continue to build their relationship since I was going to get her pregnant with his child anyways and then kill him off. Yeah I know messed up, I've already been told that. I have my sadistic reasonings.:D

I don't want Valhalla to seem like a, for lack of a better word "slut". How long should I have to wait before I have Orion step in to seduce her? Or can I end my novel there and start the next series?
I don't want to wait too long since the rest of them are also learning to master their powers and trying to get along with their counterparts as well.

I think that it is a mistake to use such a well known name of a place as the name of a character; to wit, Valhalla. I wondered how a hall, a building could be a slut, until I realized what you had done.

Mary_MO
11-21-2014, 01:44 AM
I think that it is a mistake to use such a well known name of a place as the name of a character; to wit, Valhalla. I wondered how a hall, a building could be a slut, until I realized what you had done.

I meant, that the names of my characters will change eventually to match each hemisphere they will be ruling.

King Neptune
11-21-2014, 04:14 AM
I meant, that the names of my characters will change eventually to match each hemisphere they will be ruling.

What I meant is that I think that using the name of the place where Germanic heroes go after they die in battle as the name of a character is not a good idea, unless the character is to personify heroic death (or something like that). If Valhalla were an obscure thing from Albanian mythology that no one had ever heard of, then it would be different, but Valhalla is very well known.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla

Mary_MO
11-21-2014, 04:31 AM
What I meant is that I think that using the name of the place where Germanic heroes go after they die in battle as the name of a character is not a good idea, unless the character is to personify heroic death (or something like that). If Valhalla were an obscure thing from Albanian mythology that no one had ever heard of, then it would be different, but Valhalla is very well known.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla

I know that, which is why I will be changing them. I have my own personal reasons why I used it in the first place. I knew it would change eventually, nothing is ever set when your writing your first draft. I can always go back and change names around.

auntypsychotic
11-25-2014, 09:18 AM
I know that, which is why I will be changing them. I have my own personal reasons why I used it in the first place. I knew it would change eventually, nothing is ever set when your writing your first draft. I can always go back and change names around.

Hi Mary,

Finally made it here. I don't know your process or what works for you so I will try to go at it from mine. I started by wanting to tell 1 story about 1 character and when I was done it was somewhere in length between flash and short story and I left it at that. I thought I was finished. I was, it wasn't. After a year or two of prodding from friends I went back to it to find that a lot had happened when I wasn't looking. I finished the basic novel a few months ago and am now in editing hell but the novel itself was determined by the first story I wanted to tell.

I suggest that you decide what story you want to write, the basic bones of it anyway. I mean, even if there are 4 major characters which one is the first one to grab you? Who and what made you want to tell a story in the first place? Take that and run with it for a while. Who is she? What is she like? What are her good characteristics and what are her weaknesses?

What do you want her to achieve/become/learn in the course of her life? Once you know where she's going you can figure out how she gets there and that's when the mythology research and specifics of her "powers" come in. Do that for each of your MC's and then you'll know where and how to weave their stories together.

In most mythologies even the gods have their weaknesses be they ego or lust or jealousy. That's why the gods kept needing humans to pull their nuts out of the fire. Unrelieved "goodness" is boring; real, living characters need more than external conflict, they need to make mistakes too.

I do agree that if they don't seem to want to chase after items then you probably shouldn't make them. Maybe they don't know yet what they want to do; maybe there is a story in that. Maybe they don't want to be gods or save the world; maybe they'd just as soon be accountants and third grade teachers. If so, there's a story there too. Maybe they have to discover that they are willing to sacrifice their own wants for the greater good or maybe one of them decides to opt out entirely in which case you can bring in Forseti to take his or her place in the pantheon.

Regardless of how it ultimately works out, once you know what story you want to tell, you can add in the bits of mythology/religion/history that give them the road map to the end. How close do you want to get to the bible, for instance? Guy Gavriel Kay wrote a beautiful fantasy around the crucifixtion in "The Summer Tree" (book 1 of the Fionavar Tapestry series) while weaving in everything from the concept of a literal scapegoat to magic to the pagan summer king. Michael Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" is a wonderful hard sci-fi/techno take on Frankenstein. But the stories started before the gods and the gadgets came in.

RDArmstrong
11-25-2014, 05:33 PM
Well while you have the religions twisted with mythology angle, why not have each power symbolic of the major religions we have today.
Reincarnation, healing, natural elements, divisive/manipulative, allaying fears, compassion.

Beyond that I would even think of tying each character to symbolic of a religion today. Their perspectives, motivations, experience, and morals. Their co-operation depends on aligning what they have in common and using that achieve their goals. Every religion has a positive to it and something that stands out because they suit a niche of people that believe in them, each could somehow form the individual power from that. You could possibly have fun at a few religions that are actually very similar but despise each other (not naming names).

Robert Dawson
11-25-2014, 06:41 PM
Just a thought here - ignore me if it doesn't seem right to you - but "Statera" might not be quite the word you want. It suggests, to my ear, "status" and "statistics," and it means "balance" in the sense of the physical apparatus used for weighing stuff - that is, "scale". Other translations include "worth" or "quality". To me, it does not suggest beings who preserve balance and harmony, but judges or critics: those who weigh and evaluate.

The Latin for "balance" (noun, in the sense of "preserve balance") is aequilibrium, perfectly recognizable to the speaker of any European language but perhaps too technical-sounding for your purpose. "Libra", while technically also meaning measuring apparatus, would have the advantage of being cognate with "equilibrium" and equally recognizable.

Mary_MO
11-25-2014, 09:30 PM
Just a thought here - ignore me if it doesn't seem right to you - but "Statera" might not be quite the word you want. It suggests, to my ear, "status" and "statistics," and it means "balance" in the sense of the physical apparatus used for weighing stuff - that is, "scale". Other translations include "worth" or "quality". To me, it does not suggest beings who preserve balance and harmony, but judges or critics: those who weigh and evaluate.

The Latin for "balance" (noun, in the sense of "preserve balance") is aequilibrium, perfectly recognizable to the speaker of any European language but perhaps too technical-sounding for your purpose. "Libra", while technically also meaning measuring apparatus, would have the advantage of being cognate with "equilibrium" and equally recognizable.

Thank you Robert, I looked it up and even after researching I still can't find what site your referencing this from. Would you be able to link me to one or tell me where I can find this? I found a few that support what your saying about "aequilibruim", but I'm not finding the same for "Libra." I want to make sure I get this right, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

King Neptune
11-25-2014, 11:16 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/equilibrium?s=t

scroll down for etymology

Mary_MO
11-25-2014, 11:31 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/equilibrium?s=t

scroll down for etymology

Thank you!

auntypsychotic
11-26-2014, 01:23 AM
This is something I came up with a while back while doing my own research:
http://www.jrank.org/api/search/v1?css=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jrank.org%2Fjrankweb%2Fres ources%2Fcss%2Fsearch.css&s=0&l=10&ci=870&q=balance+
There is also Ma'at who is the Egyptian goddess of balance and order.

Mary_MO
11-26-2014, 01:31 AM
This is something I came up with a while back while doing my own research:
http://www.jrank.org/api/search/v1?css=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jrank.org%2Fjrankweb%2Fres ources%2Fcss%2Fsearch.css&s=0&l=10&ci=870&q=balance+
There is also Ma'at who is the Egyptian goddess of balance and order.

I've heard of her before, I never thought to look her up. Thank you! I wish I named my daughter that instead of Isis, but I doubt my husband would have gone for it.:D

auntypsychotic
11-26-2014, 02:44 AM
I've heard of her before, I never thought to look her up. Thank you! I wish I named my daughter that instead of Isis, but I doubt my husband would have gone for it.:D

As someone who's names bring endless confusion to pronunciation (first and last) be glad you didn't, she will be. Isis will be interesting enough to explain.

Also, something must be "in the air" the novel I just finished features the elements and the concept of balance. Mythology doesn't specifically figure into it much but it leans toward the Celtic/Norse/Buddhist. I'm a zen pagan though so combo makes sense to me.:tongue;)

Mary_MO
11-26-2014, 02:54 AM
I love things like that, being one who studied all types of religion and mythology. You'd probably be interested in knowing what all my kids names are too.;)

Ever one of them were carefully picked out. Both mine and my husband's names are biblical, so when each of our children were born we decided to go with pagan ones.

Your novel does sound very interesting, I'd like to read it sometime if you'd care share. :)

Robert Dawson
11-27-2014, 12:29 AM
"Libra" as "scales" should be familiar from astronomy (or astrology.)

If you look at secondary meanings, Google Translate will give you a good picture of what the "halo" of "statera" is.

Good luck with the story!

Dryad
11-27-2014, 08:42 AM
I know this was mentioned above, but I've cringed every time I've read Valhalla as a character name here. Just some early feedback for you.

unionrdr
12-02-2014, 03:20 AM
I've self published two books & working on two more. One, a sci-fi series, taught me in the first chapter or two that the characters drive the story. I think this helps develop them as the story goes on. Besides driving the story in the direction it needs to go, if that makes any sense. Keep what you want to happen in the back of your mind, then let the characters get there somehow. Conflict being a part of life should also be part of your character's lives. Just my 2c...

milkweed
12-02-2014, 03:37 AM
there is an anime series that has already done this, when I can remember the name I'll post it here and you can watch the series yourself.