14 Authors you should never read, says Buzzfeed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
Okay, that's not what the article actually says. And I know, complaining about a stupid, lazy list on Buzzfeed is like complaining about a bad smell at a pig farm. But the subtext, especially with the mix of long-dead literary authors and a handful of contemporary ones, including some odd insertions of authors not well known outside their genre, seems to be "Psst! These are bad people, in case you didn't know!"

Let's look at the list:

#1. Orson Scott Card. Really? After the controversy and the protests over Ender's Game, who is actually unaware of Card's views on homosexuality?

#2. T.S. Eliot. Ditto. I thought pretty much everyone knew he was a raging anti-Semite.

#3. Elizabeth Moon. Seriously? She makes #3 on the list for one ill-worded blog post about Muslims? Elizabeth Moon, who was a darling of feminist SF until the Wiscon controversy? And the author of the article is just plain lying about that last line.

#4. Roald Dahl. An unpleasant person from everything I've ever read about him. I suppose it's possible some fans of Willy Wonka were unaware of him being an anti-Semite, as well.

#5. Louis-Ferdinand Celine. I confess a gap in my literary education, I've never even heard of him. But okay, so far we have a couple of SF authors who's said un-PC things, and some early 20th century authors who were anti-Semitic to some degree.

#6. John C. Wright. Yeah, he rages about a lot more than homosexuals, but he's also pretty much unknown outside of SF, and not even that well known in the genre. One wonders why the author felt he, in particularly, needed to be singled out.

#7. V.S. Naipual. Seriously, there are people unaware that he's a cranky old racist misogynist?

#8. Dr. Seuss. Sigh. Yes, he drew racial caricatures and used the term "Japs" during World War II. As did Warner Brothers and most of the rest of the country.

#9. Edith Wharton. Another rich WASP writer from the early 20th century said some not-nice things about Jews and feminism.

#10. Scott Adams. I guess some people may be unaware he's a crank. He's also a humorist and a troll - it's hard to take pretty much anything he says seriously.

#11. Kingsley Amis. The only thing less surprising than discovering an early 20th century writer was anti-Semitic is discovering he was anti-homosexuality.

#12. Martin Amis. Clearly the author of the article is very worried about people saying un-PC things about Muslim terrorists. Given how he misrepresented Elizabeth Moon, I mistrust his characterization of Martin Amis's sentiments.

#13. Ezra Pound. See: T.S. Eliot.

#14. David Mamet. "David Mamet’s well-documented “conversion” to conservativism isn’t bigotry"... but we'll characterize it as such anyway.


This is a crappy list. Why no mention of John Ringo, Larry Correia, or Brandon Sanderson (none of whom are actually bigots, to my knowledge, but are just as qualified given the criteria here). How about Margaret Mitchell or Hugh Lofting? And seriously, he left Howard Philips Lovecraft off the list?

I used to be much more sympathetic to the idea of shunning authors with reprehensible views and not supporting them by reading them or buying their books. Empty-headed, unnuanced, context-free "enemies lists" like this are one of the reasons I no longer hold with that.
 

Xelebes

Delerium ex Ennui
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
14,205
Reaction score
884
Location
Edmonton, Canada
It leaves off DC Scott who is one of the few writers who was directly responsible for thousands of deaths under his watch but is still praised for his trailblazing.
 
Last edited:

Katrina S. Forest

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
2,053
Reaction score
280
Website
katrinasforest.com
Meh, it's a standard internet list. It's designed to get people riled up and talking about it. (And it's not even being subtle in the tactics, given the addition of Dr. Seuss on the list.)
 

JustSarah

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,980
Reaction score
35
Website
about.me
I don't listen to anything Buzzfeed says.

Oh, and already have Charlie. No plans to give it away either. And shocker, I may buy Matilda. I was just going to say, Roald Dahl has been dead for a very long time.

I still buy H.P. Lovecraft books.
 
Last edited:

TheNighSwan

Banned
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
398
Reaction score
54
Location
France
Louis-Ferdinand Céline is brought up every now and then in France when people need to talk about a controversial author, whether we should read him or not, can we separate his antisemitism from his work, should we honor him or not as a great writer (since he's considered to have completely revolutionized French literature in the 20th century, it's a bit hard to pretend he didn't exist).

This is a bit funny considering he has been dead for more than 50 years, and the controversial part of his writings hasn't been re-printed since WWII.
 

shadowwalker

empty-nester!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,601
Reaction score
598
Location
SE Minnesota
If we only read authors whose personal views mirrored our own, we'd all have read very little. I pay no attention to authors, other than to remember their names if I like their writing. Authors are just like every one else - one aspect of their personalities or beliefs does not define them as individuals.
 

buz

edits all posts at least four times
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
5,147
Reaction score
2,040
So you're actually just stirring shit up by posting misleading titles to things? ;)
And I know, complaining about a stupid, lazy list on Buzzfeed is like complaining about a bad smell at a pig farm. But the subtext, especially with the mix of long-dead literary authors and a handful of contemporary ones, including some odd insertions of authors not well known outside their genre, seems to be "Psst! These are bad people, in case you didn't know!"
I don't...understand...why it matters?

#1. Orson Scott Card. Really? After the controversy and the protests over Ender's Game, who is actually unaware of Card's views on homosexuality?
I wouldn't be aware of them if I didn't fuck around on AW. I was barely aware of the Ender's Game movie existing, let alone the protests surrounding it.

#2. T.S. Eliot. Ditto. I thought pretty much everyone knew he was a raging anti-Semite.
Nope. Don't know anything about him, actually.

#3. Elizabeth Moon. Seriously? She makes #3 on the list for one ill-worded blog post about Muslims? Elizabeth Moon, who was a darling of feminist SF until the Wiscon controversy? And the author of the article is just plain lying about that last line.
I don't think the numbering of the list is at all important. :p I also don't know who this is.

#4. Roald Dahl. An unpleasant person from everything I've ever read about him. I suppose it's possible some fans of Willy Wonka were unaware of him being an anti-Semite, as well.
Ah, yes, this one I have read about, because he was my favorite author as a kid :D And yes, not everyone has heard of his douchebaggery. Why would they?
#5. Louis-Ferdinand Celine. I confess a gap in my literary education, I've never even heard of him. But okay, so far we have a couple of SF authors who's said un-PC things, and some early 20th century authors who were anti-Semitic to some degree.
So why's it okay for you to be unaware of some guy but stupid for other people not to be aware of some other guys?

#6. John C. Wright. Yeah, he rages about a lot more than homosexuals, but he's also pretty much unknown outside of SF, and not even that well known in the genre. One wonders why the author felt he, in particularly, needed to be singled out.
...but almost none of the authors you listed at the bottom are authors I've heard of, either. Which is not to say that I'm a good measure of knowledge among voracious readers, only that probably, the wider world maybe hasn't heard of them...

I don't think it was "let's single this guy out" but rather "I am going to create a Buzzfeed list and include whatever authors I find first."

#7. V.S. Naipual. Seriously, there are people unaware that he's a cranky old racist misogynist?
I don't know who this is. So yes, I'm unaware of that.

Etc.

Most of your response to these listed items seems to be complaining about people knowing or not knowing about such-and-such author, which doesn't seem relevant to me. I'm not sure where your outrage is coming from.

This is a crappy list. Why no mention of John Ringo, Larry Correia, or Brandon Sanderson (none of whom are actually bigots, to my knowledge, but are just as qualified given the criteria here). How about Margaret Mitchell or Hugh Lofting? And seriously, he left Howard Philips Lovecraft off the list?
I've only heard of Brandon Sanderson and Lovecraft. And if you hate the list so much, why are you suggesting additions? ;)

Again, I don't think there was a careful measuring scale of all authors ever and their assholery defined by a well-thought-out metric. It's just content generation.

I used to be much more sympathetic to the idea of shunning authors with reprehensible views and not supporting them by reading them or buying their books. Empty-headed, unnuanced, context-free "enemies lists" like this are one of the reasons I no longer hold with that.
Except...this doesn't say you should shun them. It doesn't say not to read their books. It doesn't say they're enemies. It doesn't say not to support them. It doesn't even say they're bigots; it says they had/have "bigoted views."

It's just a list of authors who have said dickish stuff.

There are things in the world worth getting upset over. This isn't one of them. :)
 
Last edited:

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,270
Reaction score
2,125
Location
down by the bay
The death of the author is dead.

Or, is it just that we shouldn't *buy* their books so they don't make more money... socially responsible spending and whatnot? Because Buzzfeed is a total bastion of social responsibility?
 
Last edited:

asnys

Do Not Fear the Future
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
1,127
Reaction score
105
Location
USA
Website
atomic-skies.blogspot.com
Perhaps, but I find I still have plenty of great authors to read whose views I don't find repugnant.

Shakespeare was an anti-Semite. Dante had homosexuals being roasted by rains of fire in hell. Plato's Socrates was a pedophile. Are you going to stop reading them too?

We shouldn't ignore our predecessors' flaws. I am, for example, a huge fan of H. P. Lovecraft, and sadly virulent racism is one of the foundations of his work. I'm not saying we should pretend it isn't. But the unfortunate fact is that, throughout recorded history, vast majorities of the human race have believed things that we today would find reprehensible, and I have little doubt that our own descendants will find plenty of things to criticize about our attitudes and beliefs. If we refuse to read authors that believed things we today find despicable, then we cut ourselves off from most of historical literature. I don't think we should do that.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
Shakespeare was an anti-Semite. Dante had homosexuals being roasted by rains of fire in hell. Plato's Socrates was a pedophile. Are you going to stop reading them too?

We shouldn't ignore our predecessors' flaws. I am, for example, a huge fan of H. P. Lovecraft, and sadly virulent racism is one of the foundations of his work. I'm not saying we should pretend it isn't. But the unfortunate fact is that, throughout recorded history, vast majorities of the human race have believed things that we today would find reprehensible, and I have little doubt that our own descendants will find plenty of things to criticize about our attitudes and beliefs. If we refuse to read authors that believed things we today find despicable, then we cut ourselves off from most of historical literature. I don't think we should do that.

You get some slack if you're dead, since then you at least don't get my money.

But I don't feel compelled to continue reading a classic if I don't think it's worth wading through all the bigoted shit.

It is difficult to ignore Shakespeare if you're writing in English, but many classics can still be easily avoided without a great loss, and many more books if we're talking about contemporary authors and reading for pleasure.

There is such a wealth of great literature out there, it's entirely possible to cut out the undesirables and not miss them.
 
Last edited:

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
If I gave a rat's ass about anything or anyone who tries to tell me who I should or shouldn't read, I might read that article, but I really don't give a rat's ass, so screw 'em.
 

Viridian

local good boy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
557
Where did you get your title from? It has nothing to do with the article. It's not even an exaggeration of what the article is about; it's a complete misrepresentation. I have no idea why you posted this:

I used to be much more sympathetic to the idea of shunning authors with reprehensible views and not supporting them by reading them or buying their books. Empty-headed, unnuanced, context-free "enemies lists" like this are one of the reasons I no longer hold with that.

It's a list of authors who are/were bigots. It doesn't say anything other than that -- no shunning, no book-burning, no boycotting. Just these authors are bigots. So what are you complaining about? The fact that some random journalist decided to publicize this information at all?

And no, I had no idea most of those authors were bigots. The only one I knew was Orson Scott Card; like Buzhidao, I didn't even recognize half the list. And you complain multiple times about how everyone already knows about the bigotry of these authors, then complain about one author being too obscure, then complain about obvious missing names. Make up your mind.

Yes, Buzzfeed sucks. And probably the information presented there is inaccurate. Those are valid complaints.
 
Last edited:

NRoach

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
664
Reaction score
73
Location
Middle o' Germany
Buzzfeed is terrible because its entire business strategy is writing inflammatory headlines to rake in the ad revenue from people who say "WHAT?!" and righteously click.
It works, sadly.
 

Jhaewyrmend

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
1
One really shouldn't pay attention to what every single person thinks about every single thing because I tell you, you will find not one person who completely thinks like you, so are we just going to banish each other to kingdom come because I like puppies and you don't? That just makes no sense.
 

Lillith1991

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
5,313
Reaction score
569
Location
MA
Website
eclecticlittledork.wordpress.com
Shakespeare was an anti-Semite. Dante had homosexuals being roasted by rains of fire in hell. Plato's Socrates was a pedophile. Are you going to stop reading them too?

How are they relevant to this discussion? All of them are thousands of years to a few hundred dead, their views aren't hurting anyone since they're dead. Also, they're products of their times. Half this list is contemporary like Card, and the other half is already dead. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if Enders Game is the best thing in the world. The fact Card wants to stop me from having the same rights as him and is willing to back up those beliefs doesn't make me want to read his work. There's plenty of things out there for me to read by people who don't have the same views as him, so I'm not missing anything.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,128
Reaction score
10,900
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
This is indeed a pretty random list that doesn't seem to have any set criteria for inclusion. Mixing modern bigots with old-timey anti semites with people who hopped on the social bandwagon during WWII, and a few people who may have stuck their foot in their mouth at some point, yeah, it seems pretty random.

And they left Marion Zimmer Bradley off? She molested kids, FFS. And Samuel Delaney, who spoke up in defense of NAMBLA, and Piers Anthony, who has spoken up in defense of child molesters and actually written books that present such as sympathetic and reasonable? I guess child molestation is not a contentious or political enough human rights issue?

You'd be surprised how many people haven't heard about OS Card's outspoken homophobia, though. I belong to some online groups that are focused exclusively on fantasy and SF. A while back, we were discussing craft books and someone mentioned OSC's book on characterization and viewpoint and said that there are a lot of used copies available if they people didn't want to give him their money, and there was a lot of "Huh?" type reactions to that. It's not that they were aware of his views and decided to ignore them; they'd never heard of them at all.

There are many fans of the genre who don't follow author blogs, follow the happenings at the SFWA, or partake in politically oriented discussion forums.

This list looks and feels like simple clickbait. And yeah, it's pretty dumb to tell people what they *should* or shouldn't read (I've no problem with putting the problematic behavior of authors out there, though). Most of us have lines we draw, but I accept that someone can deplore OSC's views and still get past them if they like his stuff enough (I can't, but that's me--for me, it was that he actively campaigned to strip marriage rights and didn't simply express his views on the matter).
 
Last edited:

shadowwalker

empty-nester!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,601
Reaction score
598
Location
SE Minnesota
There is such a wealth of great literature out there, it's entirely possible to cut out the undesirables and not miss them.

So much great literature that I'll never have time to read all I want to - so why would I waste any of that time finding out about the author's politics/religion/personal life? Hell, I rarely take time to read the "About the Author" page in the book itself...
 

Vito

Recalled to life
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
6,491
Reaction score
524
Location
California
This is what I always do whenever someone tries to tell me what I shouldn't read: :e2moon:
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
So much great literature that I'll never have time to read all I want to - so why would I waste any of that time finding out about the author's politics/religion/personal life? Hell, I rarely take time to read the "About the Author" page in the book itself...

The author's politics/religion/personal life tend to play a large role in the literature I like to read these days.

This year, I'm only reading speculative fiction written by authors of color, primarily women.

Obviously, different readers care about different things.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.