Anti-Bullying Video, But Is There Bullying?

If it's the video I'm thinking of, I agree with the anti-bullying tag. The video shows Sarah Grace approaching a group of girls and trying to engage with them, and they laugh at her, make faces, and then get up and walk away from her.

That might not be as overt as insulting her for having Down Syndrome, or knocking her down or whatever, but it's still bullying, in my opinion. And it's consistent with how girls often bully other girls, which is by rumors, avoiding, and the whole "don't be her friend or you'll lose all your other friends" thing.

The little stuff leads to the big stuff. --s6

Didn't look at the video (technical difficulties on my end), but I'm always a bit concerned with conflating bullying with just being nasty. I've always associated bullying with on-going nastiness and with a 'power play'. When I was growing up, there were kids who were nasty to me - but they were that way with a lot of kids they felt were beneath them socially. It was unpleasant, but I didn't feel threatened. They were just 'stuck-ups' (the term at the time). On the other hand, there were a couple of other kids who went out of their way to be nasty to me, who tried to intimidate me, and some who actually got physical. I just think sometimes we dilute the impact of true bullying when we include just kids being nasty.

Yeah, I agree that there's a gray area there. What gets me is all the adults lately who claim they were bullied when someone just said something rude to them or argued with them but it wasn't an ongoing campaign, severe, or anyone who had power over them in any way. Perhaps the meaning of the term is just changing somewhat, but that sounds ridiculous to me. Oops, sorry if that's too far off-topic, OP.

Does not striKe me as bullying which is more assertive and antagonistic than what is described. Seems more like taunting

An ounce of prevention ...

Wait so what counts as bullying these days? I'm sure many children will feel much better knowing they are not really being bullied; they are merely victims of general nastiness and ignorance.

kuwisdelu said:

Wait so what counts as bullying these days? I'm sure many children will feel much better knowing they are not really being bullied; they are merely victims of general nastiness and ignorance.

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Bullying is generally defined as someone using a position of superior strength to harm or intimidate someone who has less strength.

I didn't see bullying in the video, I saw exclusion. Also unpleasant, but I think it IS important to use different terms for different kinds of negative behaviour. As someone who works with kids, I see them practising their social skills and often making a hell of a mess of things. But they learn through mistakes, and I think adults should try to give them room to experiment as much as possible, but also step in when needed to protect the weak. In order to decide when and how to step in, we need to have a clear understanding of different levels of unpleasant behaviour.

For example, true bullying? Should get shut down hard. Absolutely not allowed, and kids who are bullying should be kept away from their victims until they can show they understand what they've done wrong, etc.

Something milder but still unpleasant, like this sort of exclusion? I'd say it should be dealt with using persuasion and gentleness. As an adult, I chose who I'm friends with, and I think kids are learning to make their own choices in that area - they can't learn to make good choices if they're forced to be 'friends' with everyone. Obviously excluding a child with special needs is ugly, but I think it would be better dealt with through persuasion and helping the group of girls develop empathy - the response that will encourage this will be different than the response that would be appropriate for someone who is seeking out a weaker student and deliberately victimizing her.

My educator friends all agree that there's a difference between "teasing" (or tolerable conflict) and bullying.

But, I do think that "teasing" is not a one-size-fits-all action here. With ye average child at school, sure. But when it comes to teasing one because of race or mental disability? I think the continuum looks a wee bit different there.

Captcha said:

Bullying is generally defined as someone using a position of superior strength to harm or intimidate someone who has less strength.

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Maybe I need to be enlightened, but I'm still a bit confused as to how bullying an individual is substantially different from bullying a group of people.

How are able-bodied students not in a position of superior social strength to harm and intimidate students with disabilities and disorders requiring special needs attention?

If the student were black instead of special needs and being excluded because of his or her race, would that still be kids "practising their social skills and often making a hell of a mess of things"?

How cute!

kuwisdelu said:

Maybe I need to be enlightened, but I'm still a bit confused as to how bullying an individual is substantially different from bullying a group of people.

How are able-bodied students not in a position of superior social strength to harm and intimidate students with disabilities and disorders requiring special needs attention?

If the student were black instead of special needs and being excluded because of his or her race, would that still be kids "practising their social skills and often making a hell of a mess of things"?

How cute!

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It's not about whether the victim is an individual or a group. In this case, I'd say that the fact that the girl approached the group voluntarily and then they withdrew makes this not bullying. If the group had approached the girl and then been cruel, I would say it was bullying.

I would say that the vast majority of times I'm contacted by students or parents about bullying, BOTH kids involved think they're being bullied by the other. Both kids have poor social skills, both kids are saying mean things, and they both blame the other kid when their conflict escalates. It's a problem, and adults should try to help them deal with the conflict, but it's not really bullying, because there isn't that imbalance of power.

In other cases, like this one, I'd agree that there's an imbalance of power, but I'm not seeing the attempt to harm or intimidate. This group of girls doesn't want to be friends with the girl with Down Syndrome. They should learn more empathy and compassion, and adults should help them with that. I'm not saying it's cute, any more than I'd find it cute if the exclusion was based on race, or social class, or any other form of prejudice. But I think the consequence for this behaviour should be different than the consequence for something based on aggression.

Let's say we DID classify the behaviour in this video as bullying. How would you address the behaviour? As a concerned adult, what would you do?

Captcha said:

In other cases, like this one, I'd agree that there's an imbalance of power, but I'm not seeing the attempt to harm or intimidate. This group of girls doesn't want to be friends with the girl with Down Syndrome. They should learn more empathy and compassion, and adults should help them with that. I'm not saying it's cute, any more than I'd find it cute if the exclusion was based on race, or social class, or any other form of prejudice. But I think the consequence for this behaviour should be different than the consequence for something based on aggression.

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I'd argue that children students people ignoring harmful behavior and doing nothing about it are at least as much a part of bullying as acts of deliberate cruelty. If it weren't for the former, then the latter would be much rarer and more difficult to get away with. The problem with bullying isn't simply malice, but that so many of us are complicit in it, because we do nothing to stop it, or we join in against our better judgment in order to fit in with the group. I absolutely think that should be part of anti-bullying campaigns.

I don't agree that deliberate aggression or malice or cruelty are a necessary component of bullying at all.

Willful ignorance and indifference to what is harmful and offensive is just as bad.

Let's say we DID classify the behaviour in this video as bullying. How would you address the behaviour? As a concerned adult, what would you do?

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Depends on who is doing it. Not all bullies will respond to the same things.

kuwisdelu said:

I'd argue that children students people ignoring harmful behavior and doing nothing about it are at least as much a part of bullying as acts of deliberate cruelty. If it weren't for the former, then the latter would be much rarer and more difficult to get away with. The problem with bullying isn't simply malice, but that so many of us are complicit in it, because we do nothing to stop it. I absolutely think that should be part of anti-bullying campaigns.

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At first I thought this was a straw man, since I never suggested that the harmful behaviour be ignored... but I guess you're speaking about the children ignoring the harmful behaviour? In which case, I think most anti-bullying campaigns do have a don't-be-a-bystander component. So... we agree?

But saying that bystanders should get involved doesn't really have anything to do with determining whether this was an act of bullying, does it?

As an adult, I assume you believe you should have the freedom to chose who to be friends with, without interference from authority? If you chose not to be friends with someone for a stupid reason, would that make you a bully, or just someone making stupid choices?

Would you agree that children students people should be given the freedom to chose their own friends?

MOD Note:

Folks, enough with assuming what other posters meant. Enough with the passive aggressive insults.

kuwisdelu said:

When the bystanders are in lock-step in ostracizing another person or group of people, I'd say that counts as bullying.

It becomes mob mentality, where everyone is too afraid of what others will think to say "this isn't right".

...

I see you missed the point of the video.

It was not "everyone should be friends with everyone else no matter what".

It was about treating people fairly, as equals, and not judging people based on stereotypes.

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I'm not sure I get where this is actual bullying however. First, the decision to let people work out their own problems, particularly if this is witnessed as an isolated incident by the bystanders, does not make the bystanders associate bullies.

Second, treating people fairly, as equals, is something that very few people do 100% of the time. That's because we're all human. That does not mean that we're all bullies. It's a separate issue. Important, yes, definitely - but still separate.

This is why many people still don't think bullying is a serious problem - because all these other things get tossed into the stew.

Let's try this again.

Captcha said:

At first I thought this was a straw man, since I never suggested that the harmful behaviour be ignored... but I guess you're speaking about the children ignoring the harmful behaviour? In which case, I think most anti-bullying campaigns do have a don't-be-a-bystander component. So... we agree?

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On that point, yes.

But saying that bystanders should get involved doesn't really have anything to do with determining whether this was an act of bullying, does it?

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As I see it, in such a situation, the bystanders are acting together as a bully.

I.e., mob mentality.

As an adult, I assume you believe you should have the freedom to chose who to be friends with, without interference from authority? If you chose not to be friends with someone for a stupid reason, would that make you a bully, or just someone making stupid choices?

Would you agree that children students people should be given the freedom to chose their own friends?

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The video has nothing to do with forcing people to be friends with anyone.

It's about treating people fairly, as equals, and not judging people based on stereotypes.

I believe that counts as an anti-bullying message.

"MattyB" told Good Morning America Thursday the video was inspired by a desire for his sister to be treated fairly.

"Some people at school might pick on her for her needs," he said, "but I don't think anyone should be bullied because of what they have."

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shadowwalker said:

Second, treating people fairly, as equals, is something that very few people do 100% of the time. That's because we're all human. That does not mean that we're all bullies. It's a separate issue. Important, yes, definitely - but still separate.

This is why many people still don't think bullying is a serious problem - because all these other things get tossed into the stew.

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I view racism and sexism as serious problems. I view bigotry as a type of bullying.

That would fall under treating people fairly and as equals.

So I'm not sure why that would contribute to people not viewing bullying as a problem, unless they don't have a problem with stereotypes, racism, sexism, etc.

kuwisdelu said:

It's about treating people fairly, as equals, and not judging people based on stereotypes.

I believe that counts as an anti-bullying message.

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+1

And thanks for restating your position, sir.

kuwisdelu said:

I view racism and sexism as serious problems. I view bigotry as a type of bullying.

That would fall under treating people fairly and as equals.

So I'm not sure why that would contribute to people not viewing bullying as a problem, unless they don't have a problem with stereotypes, racism, sexism, etc.

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Any time one starts throwing in additional components, to the point where it appears that almost any disagreeable action is supposed to be included, then people begin to think of the old mountain/mole hill. Bullying occurs without the necessity of racism, sexism, any-ism - it should be recognized as an important problem in and of itself, so that solutions can be directed at bullying, and not derailed into other equally important but separate issues. The seriousness of actual bullying should also not be diluted by including unpleasant/nasty/hurtful actions that are not constant and/or based on power - ie, just people being human.

shadowwalker said:

Any time one starts throwing in additional components, to the point where it appears that almost any disagreeable action is supposed to be included, then people begin to think of the old mountain/mole hill. Bullying occurs without the necessity of racism, sexism, any-ism - it should be recognized as an important problem in and of itself, so that solutions can be directed at bullying, and not derailed into other equally important but separate issues. The seriousness of actual bullying should also not be diluted by including unpleasant/nasty/hurtful actions that are not constant and/or based on power - ie, just people being human.

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So what do we do about the serious problems of "people being human"? I guess I'm just not particularly comfortable with the idea of picking on a girl with Down's syndrome for being different being dismissed as general "unpleasant/nasty/hurtful actions", especially when there is a clear social power disparity there, IMO.

I think picking on a girl with Down's syndrome for her special needs falls squarely into the bullying category.

Since when is picking on someone for being different not bullying?

shadowwalker said:

Didn't look at the video (technical difficulties on my end), but I'm always a bit concerned with conflating bullying with just being nasty. I've always associated bullying with on-going nastiness and with a 'power play'. When I was growing up, there were kids who were nasty to me - but they were that way with a lot of kids they felt were beneath them socially. It was unpleasant, but I didn't feel threatened. They were just 'stuck-ups' (the term at the time). On the other hand, there were a couple of other kids who went out of their way to be nasty to me, who tried to intimidate me, and some who actually got physical. I just think sometimes we dilute the impact of true bullying when we include just kids being nasty.

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There are other dynamics which include relational agression and ignorance which aren't truly bullying. The term is a catch phrase and it diminishes the understanding of those who seek out and target
others.

shadowwalker said:

Didn't look at the video (technical difficulties on my end), but I'm always a bit concerned with conflating bullying with just being nasty. I've always associated bullying with on-going nastiness and with a 'power play'. When I was growing up, there were kids who were nasty to me - but they were that way with a lot of kids they felt were beneath them socially. It was unpleasant, but I didn't feel threatened. They were just 'stuck-ups' (the term at the time). On the other hand, there were a couple of other kids who went out of their way to be nasty to me, who tried to intimidate me, and some who actually got physical. I just think sometimes we dilute the impact of true bullying when we include just kids being nasty.

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I kind of agree. The difference between bullying and being mean reflects how a school is responsible for handling it. A school should be expected to stop bullying, and protect their students from it, but they can't force students to like each other or be nice to everyone all the time.

Celia Cyanide said:

but they can't force students to like each other or be nice to everyone all the time.

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I don't think anyone expects schools to ask students all to like each other.

But I don't think it's too much for a school to ask students to respect each other.