Does it turn you off when writers talk about no sales?

Yes. It turns me off. It's like airing your dirty laundry. People always look prettier to me when they keep their clothes on.

KTC said:

Yes. It turns me off. It's like airing your dirty laundry. People always look prettier to me when they keep their clothes on.

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That entirely depends on the person...

Turns me off as well! It does not make me want to look into their writing if the writer uses social media to nag about low sales

It feels like private information. I don't really want to hear about the salary you make at your job, how much you have in your bank account, what you still owe on your mortgage, or details about your sex life either.

I don't follow the authors of the books I read on social media, it's easier that way. If I like a book I don't want to learn all about the author because if they are a complete pillock it will only ruin the reading experience for me.

I think it's poor strategy to complain about sales in public, or to self-congratulate about them, either. Neither announcement makes me want to go look at the author's books.

Same category for me as public complaints about reviews. Definitely the sort of thing you need to rant about only to trusted friends, and not too much to them, either. For really raging rants, lock yourself away and have at it until you're worn out and, one hopes, feeling a bit giggly over your antics.

Yeah, I don't think moaning to the public about poor sales accomplishes anything productive. It's sort of like that guy at the party who's complaining he can't find a girlfriend; it's quite boring and tediuos. Now, discussing it in fora like BRBC is productive because I've learned a lot about how publishing works and how certain publishers with records of low sales operate, but more importantly what and to wbat degree I have control over sales. But publicly on Facebook or wherever? Nah.

I hate to say it, but yes. It's one thing on the forums here when you're interacting with others in the industry and everyone's sharing tips and tricks. But on Twitter, in public? It's crass.

Also, a small part of me starts wondering if there's a good reason *why* the book isn't selling. Especially if they have a lot of followers on Twitter and/or a large social media presence.

Though, to be fair, I've heard August has been a tough month for everyone all around.

One of my friends was recently worrying on FB about low sales for her book. I bought a copy. But she's my friend, someone I published in GUD and so someone whose work I appreciate. I probably wouldn't have done the same for a stranger or remote internet connection.

the internet certainly invites oversharing.

Not as much as authors who practically beg people to buy their books or/and pester people for reviews.

It definitely turns me off. On a major social media platform it usually reads like a pity pitch. "I haven't sold a book this month. Someone buy a copy because I'm sitting here with puppy eyes?"

That's my first reaction. My second would be to wonder what they've done to promote their book that month, to which the common answer from such people is "Nothing."

negative advertising - not a good idea.

I don't read self-published fiction, follow self-published writers on blogs, Facebook, or websites, and I don't follow anyone on twitter. I very rarely hear any writer talk about not making sales.

I'm an outlier -- I don't mind at all if I learn that someone has sold no books or few books -- and I sometimes do buy that author's book.

The thing is -- it's no surprise to me. I'm sure someone, somewhere has stats on sales (I mean, I know you can look up some sales for some pubs on a site the name of which I can't think of right now) but I know a ton of people who have published in a lot of different ways and sometimes even the ones you've heard of aren't really selling that many books. So that's purely anecdotal, but it's my experience, so it shapes my view on the matter.

I know lots of people who have done all the right things -- blog tours, sent books to review sites (gotten good reviews), readings, signings, speaking at all the cons, mentions on famous people's blogs, big publisher book tours, magazine ads, offering your book for free on Amazon to stimulate 'sales' etc. and still only sold a disappointingly low number of books (everyone's expectations are different). Although I do have to say that having your book mentioned on the Today show does remarkable things.

But I like to buy books by people I've met online or in person -- so even if I know they haven't sold many, I might still buy their book. Even if I've read a sample and it looks like crap.

Jamesaritchie said:

I don't read self-published fiction, follow self-published writers on blogs, Facebook, or websites, and I don't follow anyone on twitter. I very rarely hear any writer talk about not making sales.

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This is my experience, as well.


If I did hear someone whining about low sales, it would probably not encourage me to buy their book, because for the most part, if their sales are that dismal, it might have something to do with the quality of their product. (Obviously there's not always a correlation.)

I talk about my low sales because I think it's helpful for people to see that self-publishing often has low sales, and not just for books that are obviously terrible. It's very slanted when only people with high sales feel they're allowed to talk about it, as it makes it seem like everyone's a millionaire. I suppose there's an argument for it putting some people off buying, but given my total sales were really low, it's unlikely there's anything I could do to make it worse.

But I do think there's a line between being open about it and using it as a club to beat people. Stuff like, "I've only sold one copy. Why are you people following me if you won't even buy my book?" is offputting to me. Though again, if the author has only sold five copies or something, I doubt they're going to make sales worse however they complain. It might not help, but people weren't lining up to buy, and no one was listening, so it's shouting to the clouds for the most part.

That sort of sales loss is more likely to happen to authors who actually have average sales and a reasonable fanbase, but have convinced themselves otherwise.

Polenth said:

I talk about my low sales because I think it's helpful for people to see that self-publishing often has low sales, and not just for books that are obviously terrible. It's very slanted when only people with high sales feel they're allowed to talk about it, as it makes it seem like everyone's a millionaire.

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True, and it creates some very unrealistic expectations about self publishing. We certainly see people who think it's a road to easy riches here on AW, and if anyone tries to provide some perspective, they're often accused of being "anti self publishing," or just big meeny heads.

But like Karen said upthread, trade publishing, even with big 5 imprints, don't always result in lots of sales either. I learned recently that the average midlist book sells somewhere from 2-4k copies. Since the distribution is, by its nature, right skewed (a very tiny number of authors sell vast numbers of books), that means there will be a large number of authors who sell even fewer books.

I never really thought about it, so I guess it doesn't bother me. I think a lot of people chat with their pals on Twitter the same as they would anywhere else. So to me it just seems like the usual sharing the ups and downs of their lives.

To me it's a terrible idea to talk about in front of your readers, especially on social media. It might be okay to talk about on your blog in the context of discussing the industry as a whole (i.e. sharing your numbers while discussing the ups and downs of self-publishing). Generally I think it should be left to boards like this one, or private conversations with other writers.

But in my previous job (which was also self-employed sales) talking about not having sales was the quickest way to turn off customers, so I'd leave it out of your marketing spots (FB, Twitter, etc.). Obviously readers CAN come here and read your posts if they want but it's not the same as throwing it out on Twitter.

What bugs me more than complaining about zero sales are those authors who talk about 'only' selling 1000 for the month, or 'only' 50 for the day.

Yeah, we get it, you're used to more sales. Considering some authors really are lucky to be selling 10 a month, your grab for sympathy falls short of getting any from a lot of people.

/grumpykins

bearilou said:

What bugs me more than complaining about zero sales are those authors who talk about 'only' selling 1000 for the month, or 'only' 50 for the day.

Yeah, we get it, you're used to more sales. Considering some authors really are lucky to be selling 10 a month, your grab for sympathy falls short of getting any from a lot of people.

/grumpykins

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That's the sort of area where I think you can lose sales. The person with zero sales can't go any lower, but the person who sells over 1000 a month has a lot of people they could alienate. At that level of sales, it'd be better from a marketing perspective to talk up selling 1000 copies in a month, as that might encourage some people to buy.

"Only" 1000 a month? If you keep that up for a year, you've outsold a fairly large number of trade published authors. If an author ever posted that on Twitter, I'd think they were a bit of an idiot. If they complained about only 50 a day, I'd think they were kind of an asshole, since that means about 30% more sales than a 1000 a month, and is considered pretty good for not a runaway bestseller. Seriously, 12,000 and 18,250 sales respectively is way above the midlist. If a trade published author sold that many books a day at 8% off cover price for a standard mass market paperback priced at $7.99, they'd have earned out a $10,000 advance and hit royalties already. For an author in kdp select with a book at 3MB, which is slightly above average, at the 70% royalty rate that's $32,004 a year. Assuming they have no backlist.

I'd be shitting myself if I made that much money from novel writing.

bearilou said:

What bugs me more than complaining about zero sales are those authors who talk about 'only' selling 1000 for the month, or 'only' 50 for the day.

Yeah, we get it, you're used to more sales. Considering some authors really are lucky to be selling 10 a month, your grab for sympathy falls short of getting any from a lot of people.

/grumpykins

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Writers with those kind of sales need to stop talking, find an agent, and get with a commercial publisher. Fast.

Be happy for your friends. Be happy for people who might someday be your friends, too.

I don't think talking about numbers like that is a grab for sympathy, it's simple stats. Adverse reaction to it probably comes across as jealously to most.