What is going on in Philadelphia? A whole lot of Civil Forfeiture, that's what.

Perks · Aug 29, 2014

So, in many jurisdictions, property linked to criminal activity can be seized by the government. That makes at least in the ballpark of sense. But the city of Philadelphia has grown a money tree, nay - a money grove, from the civil forfeiture process.

The article in Forbes is pretty disturbing.

Under civil forfeiture, property owners do not have to be convicted of a crime, or even charged with one, to permanently lose their property. Instead, the government can forfeit a property if it’s found to “facilitate” a crime, no matter how tenuous the connection.

Here's how much they're doing it in Philadelphia -

The City of Brotherly Love is particularly aggressive in pursuing homes and other real estate. Between 2009 and 2010, Philadelphia forfeited 90 real estate properties. That same year, Allegheny County did not forfeit a single home or piece of real estate. Nor is that year an outlier. Between 2002 and 2012, Philadelphia forfeited 1,172 real estate properties, while the 66 other counties in Pennsylvania forfeited 56 real properties—combined.

The cases are not presided over by a judge or jury, but by a panel of assistant district attorneys and

Incredibly, property owners battling civil forfeiture have fewer rights than those actually accused of committing a crime. Unlike in criminal cases, the government does not need to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” to prevail. Instead, once prosecutors show merely that there was a link between a property and some alleged criminal activity owners must prove their innocence. Moreover, since these cases are in civil court, owners facing forfeiture do not have a right to an attorney.

kuwisdelu · Aug 29, 2014

I was under the impression this happened a lot more places than Philadelphia.

Perks · Aug 29, 2014

Oh, it does. It's just that for some reason, the powers in Philadelphia have gone a bit rabid over it.

MarkEsq · Aug 29, 2014

Perks said:
The cases are not presided over by a judge or jury, but by a panel of assistant district attorneys and

Oh, don't worry - we're completely infallible and interested solely in the application of even-handed justice.

Now, move along...

Perks · Aug 29, 2014

MarkEsq said:
Oh, don't worry - we're completely infallible and interested solely in the application of even-handed justice.

Now, move along...

Ha! What was interesting in the article is that the fund from the forfeitures pays their salary.

And the defendants get no lawyer unless they pay for it themselves - which is a huge expenditure, especially when you haven't been accused of a crime or any wrongdoing at all.

It's crazy.

Ambrosia · Aug 29, 2014

It is crazy. One of those things that shouldn't be legal.

robjvargas · Aug 29, 2014

Well, class, welcome to Government 203, Lessons Learned from the Drug Wars.

Xelebes · Aug 29, 2014

Perks said:
Ha! What was interesting in the article is that the fund from the forfeitures pays their salary.

And the defendants get no lawyer unless they pay for it themselves - which is a huge expenditure, especially when you haven't been accused of a crime or any wrongdoing at all.

Or had your assets forfeited.

DancingMaenid · Aug 29, 2014

I find this worrying because of how big Philadelphia is. In the past, when I've heard of police and local governments going crazy over civil forfeiture, it seemed like a bigger issues in small towns with less oversight.

Either way, I think it's horrible that it's legal to begin with. No one should lose their property unless the government can prove it was connected to an actual crime (or the person has been ordered to pay restitution after being convicted of a crime).

Don · Aug 29, 2014

Hmm, who would have ever imagined Jerry Ford was right?

Gerald R. Ford said:
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

Alessandra Kelley · Aug 29, 2014

Don said:
Hmm, who would have ever imagined Jerry Ford was right?

I must have missed the moment when our government was big enough to give us everything we want. When was that?

Is this strictly relevant, anyway? It seems to be a matter of government overreaching with unjust laws rather than government being big.

robeiae · Aug 29, 2014

Don said:
Hmm, who would have ever imagined Jerry Ford was right?

Paul Harvey, Don.

AncientEagle · Aug 30, 2014

Alessandra Kelley said:
I must have missed the moment when our government was big enough to give us everything we want. When was that?

Is this strictly relevant, anyway? It seems to be a matter of government overreaching with unjust laws rather than government being big.

But you don't understand. Big government is responsible for every wrong except those for which Obama is responsible.

robeiae · Aug 30, 2014

Alessandra Kelley said:
I must have missed the moment when our government was big enough to give us everything we want. When was that?

Is this strictly relevant, anyway? It seems to be a matter of government overreaching with unjust laws rather than government being big.

AncientEagle said:
But you don't understand. Big government is responsible for every wrong except those for which Obama is responsible.

The point is--which is largely philosophical, imo--that the larger the government, the larger the bureaucracies and the body of rules and regulations that provide such entities with power and authority. Under such conditions, systemic abuses of power will increase. But the growth is often justified as necessary in order to curb injustice, unfairness, and the like.

In the distance, I think I hear Alexander Hamilton enjoying a hearty guffaw...

What is going on in Philadelphia? A whole lot of Civil Forfeiture, that's what.

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Ambrosia

Grand Duchess

robjvargas

Xelebes

Delerium ex Ennui

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!

Don

All Living is Local

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

robeiae

Touch and go

AncientEagle

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

robeiae

Touch and go