Would you do these things to reduce piracy?

Marian Perera · Aug 27, 2014

1. Place a donate button on your website or blog, perhaps with a message like, "If you've downloaded one of my books just to check it out, and if you liked it, please consider paying me so I can write more. Thank you!"

2. Try to establish or maintain a personal emotional connection to people who illegally download books, so that they would be more likely to either pay you or not download the books? I'm not sure exactly how this could be done - perhaps by not trying to shame them or condemn piracy, for a start. Or maybe posting occasionally on discussion boards meant for file sharing? Or maybe an article on your website or blog about this?

I'm just curious because this morning I read a blog post where, in the comments section, someone posted to say that he/she illegally downloaded books all the time to read samples. Like sample = buy book. Then this commenter suggested the two methods I've referenced above as ways to reduce piracy.

I'm not keen on donation buttons. I've considered them for my blog, but they always make me feel like I'm standing there with hat in hand. As for the second option, the thought of doing more social media makes me tired. Naturally, one of the comments was that this is a part of the marketing we all have to do as authors... sigh.

What do you guys think?

Bufty · Aug 27, 2014

Strikes me as a weird blog comment from someone who 'pirates'. I didn't follow the link.

I'm not sure piracy can be stopped by prodding anyone's conscience or appealing to their moral side. Piracy is thieving and, to me, those who pirate goods do so to avoid paying for them.

Amadan · Aug 27, 2014

Forget about piracy. There is nothing you can do about it, and no profit in dwelling on it or trying to fight it.

There are several types of pirates:

1. The "DOWNLOAD ALL THE THINGS!" pirate. They just torrent it because it's there. They probably never even read your book, much less are they ever going to pay for it.

2. The sampler. Either because this is how they investigate books, or because they like to sample before they buy, or because they're poor, they engage in occasional "piracy," but probably will end up shelling out money for those authors they actually like - if not this book, then the next one.

3. The cheapskate. They pirate because they want things for free. The most irritating type, entitled and shameless, but they're also not going to pay up just because you wag a finger at them.

Filigree · Aug 27, 2014

What Amadan said.

The bulk downloader and the cheapskate are not going to buy, no matter how much premium content you offer for paid versions. The sampler might.

I have enough social media stuff to do right now. I'd rather weight my limited time online toward interacting with the groups I have right now - because they're good people, because I learn stuff, and because there's a small but consistent click-through to my buy sites.

I know folks on YouTube who fund their vlog careers through donations. It works for them, but I don't see it working that well for me as a writer. Not yet.

CrastersBabies · Aug 27, 2014

I'm thinking about people I know who pirate everything or who pirate because they won't/can't pay. I wonder what would deter them. It might make an interesting online study.

Perhaps if you put a poll up (where I think posters could answer anonymously) and offer some possible deterrents.

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan, I think for ebooks and not music there are also the DRM IS EEEEVIL!!! pirates who are illegally downloading versions of a book they might even already own but don't want the DRM on it, or think they are making some sort of statement by downloading the book. These people you might be able to appeal to with a donation link but then again you could also loudly advertise that you do not put DRM on your books (and actually don't put DRM on your books). If you're with a big publisher, then maybe the donation link would help? But otherwise it seems kind of silly.

As for "maintaining an emotional connection to people who illegally download books". I mean... I don't really get the point. I mean I guess if you're the kind of person who rants on your blog about how evil piracy is all the time that would be not doing that, but... I don't really get the point? Pirates gonna pirate.

Then again I guess I have a hard time of finding piracy completely evil because great things in two things I love (jazz and anime) would be very different and probably not nearly as good without it.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
Forget about piracy. There is nothing you can do about it, and no profit in dwelling on it or trying to fight it.

.

Quite often, there is something you can do, and pirates can be, and frequently are, busted because a writer pursues them.

As far as I'm concerned, there's one kind of pirate. The thief. I do pursue piracy.

Ask Harlan Ellison about it.

KTC · Aug 27, 2014

I just ignore it. As authors, we will not get money for every one of our books that are read. I take a stand that I would never steal this way, but others...well, they're on their own...they can do what they want to do. My responsibility is my own moral ethics code, not theirs. I wouldn't put a donate button on my blog. And I certainly wouldn't try to make an appeal to pirates. I might make an appeal to their sense of fashion, where the puffy shirt is concerned...but that's my limit.

Wilde_at_heart · Aug 27, 2014

CrastersBabies said:
I'm thinking about people I know who pirate everything or who pirate because they won't/can't pay. I wonder what would deter them. It might make an interesting online study. Perhaps if you put a poll up (where I think posters could answer anonymously) and offer some possible deterrents.

Beyond them eventually having to rely on income that can be easily stolen, who knows.

As Amadan pointed out, a cohort feels simply 'entitled' and they're likely that way with everything in life.

CrastersBabies · Aug 27, 2014

Wilde_at_heart said:
Beyond them eventually having to rely on income that can be easily stolen, who knows.

As Amadan pointed out, a cohort feels simply 'entitled' and they're likely that way with everything in life.

I think we all have our moments of entitlement. (I say this as I'm plotting to buy Milk Duds at the grocery store and putting them in my purse before I go to the theater where I'd have to pay $5 a box.) I can think of deterrents for myself. For example, if I knew a movie theater was struggling because nobody was buying concessions and were bringing their own in. AND, they might be closing the doors soon. And I really really like that theater. I would probably start paying $5 a box for candy to keep the theater around.

In terms of books, I always buy, but if I was a rotten dirty downloading bad guy, I might be swayed if I knew that the writer was hurting financially and might stop writing altogether. I don't know. Just speaking for myself. And my rhetorical self. And maybe some others I know.

I do think the strongest deterrent right now is punishment, but not sure how that's going in the book industry. I know that pirating movies/television shows is a lot harder than it was 5 years ago.

Amadan · Aug 27, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
Amadan, I think for ebooks and not music there are also the DRM IS EEEEVIL!!! pirates who are illegally downloading versions of a book they might even already own but don't want the DRM on it, or think they are making some sort of statement by downloading the book.

Don't know why they'd do that when stripping the DRM is easy, but I wouldn't even call that pirating if they actually paid for the book already.

Jamesaritchie said:
Quite often, there is something you can do, and pirates can be, and frequently are, busted because a writer pursues them.

Extremely unlikely, unless by "busted" you mean "took down a filesharing server" (which may give you a feeling of moral victory, but is pretty meaningless considering how easy it is to set up a new one). I suppose a publisher might have succeeded in nailing a downloader or two, but for the most part, once your books go on torrent, they're there and you're not going to stop or catch the people who download them.

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
Don't know why they'd do that when stripping the DRM is easy, but I wouldn't even call that pirating if they actually paid for the book already.

It doesn't cause the author, publisher, or retail any loss of money but it may still be piracy, and is probably still illegal because you're subverting protections put on by the seller.

Amadan · Aug 27, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
It doesn't cause the author, publisher, or retail any loss of money but it may still be piracy, and is probably still illegal because you're subverting protections put on by the seller.

Depends what you mean - stripping DRM from the ebook you bought, or downloading a non-DRMed copy from a torrent after buying a legal DRM version?

The former is not illegal, at least not in the U.S. The latter, technically, is, but I think you'd have a very hard time recovering damages for it in court, since the net result is identical to the first case.

(This assumes, in both cases, that the downloader is not then distributing it.)

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
Depends what you mean - stripping DRM from the ebook you bought, or downloading a non-DRMed copy from a torrent after buying a legal DRM version?

The former is not illegal, at least not in the U.S. The latter, technically, is, but I think you'd have a very hard time recovering damages for it in court, since the net result is identical to the first case.

(This assumes, in both cases, that the downloader is not then distributing it.)

I'm pretty sure the first is still illegal in the US if you're not doing it for reasons like accessibility for disabled folks because of non-circumvention clauses in the digital millennium act.

Amadan · Aug 27, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
I'm pretty sure the first is still illegal in the US if you're not doing it for reasons like accessibility for disabled folks because of non-circumvention clauses in the digital millennium act.

The non-circumvention clause applies only to stripping protections for purposes of violating copyright. Which is an admittedly murky qualifier, but I know it was established in at least one court case that stripping DRM from your personal copy, such as to back up files or transfer to another device you own, is not illegal.

Buffysquirrel · Aug 27, 2014

DRM is pointless. It doesn't stop piracy and it does inconvenience buyers.

Roxxsmom · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
Forget about piracy. There is nothing you can do about it, and no profit in dwelling on it or trying to fight it.

There are several types of pirates:

1. The "DOWNLOAD ALL THE THINGS!" pirate. They just torrent it because it's there. They probably never even read your book, much less are they ever going to pay for it.

2. The sampler. Either because this is how they investigate books, or because they like to sample before they buy, or because they're poor, they engage in occasional "piracy," but probably will end up shelling out money for those authors they actually like - if not this book, then the next one.

3. The cheapskate. They pirate because they want things for free. The most irritating type, entitled and shameless, but they're also not going to pay up just because you wag a finger at them.

Lots of cheapskates out there. Too bad they never heard of this amazing invention (dating as far back as the 15th century) called the public library. Samplers puzzle me too, since most book buying sites now allow people to download free samples, or "look inside," at least, to browse.

But yeah, I don't know that much can be done individually about these people. One down side of the web is that it's made stealing much easier and less personal to do. People who would never walk into a store and shoplift a book have no qualms about downloading one illegally.

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
The non-circumvention clause applies only to stripping protections for purposes of violating copyright. Which is an admittedly murky qualifier, but I know it was established in at least one court case that stripping DRM from your personal copy, such as to back up files or transfer to another device you own, is not illegal.

Can I get a link?

Amadan · Aug 27, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
Can I get a link?

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/07/court-breaking-drm-for-a-fair-use-is-legal/

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Amadan said:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/07/court-breaking-drm-for-a-fair-use-is-legal/

Good news for me! A lot of indie authors I know have been selling discounted/free works on Amazon that I want to read on my nook...

BenPanced · Aug 27, 2014

Terrific. Another thread about piracy.

:chair

Melanii · Aug 27, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
Lots of cheapskates out there. Too bad they never heard of this amazing invention (dating as far back as the 15th century) called the public library. Samplers puzzle me too, since most book buying sites now allow people to download free samples, or "look inside," at least, to browse.

Strangely, I get really sad when I book I found on Goodreads is not at the library and I have to find another way to read it.

I'm kind of a poor person. Sure I have support from my significant other, but even he's having trouble. I rely on the library, and giveaways, for books I'm interested or love.

It's terrible, I know.

Buffysquirrel · Aug 27, 2014

I freely admit to cheapskateness. A lot of my books come from secondhand bookshops, charity shops, and freebies from the web. But I don't steal.

Hapax Legomenon · Aug 27, 2014

Are writers honestly losing sleep over the amount of money they may have lost due to piracy?

Captcha · Aug 27, 2014

Miss Strawberrii said:
Strangely, I get really sad when I book I found on Goodreads is not at the library and I have to find another way to read it.

I'm kind of a poor person. Sure I have support from my significant other, but even he's having trouble. I rely on the library, and giveaways, for books I'm interested or love.

It's terrible, I know.

Does your library take requests? Most do, and it's a GREAT way to support the authors you enjoy - your request (unless they can meet it through an interlibrary loan) will actually prompt them to buy a copy, PLUS they'll then put the copy on their shelves to expose that author to other readers.

And it often only takes a few days for them to get the book to you. (Or less time if they circulate e-books)

Making requests at the library is AWESOME!

Would you do these things to reduce piracy?

Marian Perera

starting over

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Amadan

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

Hapax Legomenon

Jamesaritchie

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Wilde_at_heart

υπείκωphobe

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

Amadan

Hapax Legomenon

Amadan

Hapax Legomenon

Amadan

Buffysquirrel

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Hapax Legomenon

Amadan

Hapax Legomenon

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Melanii

Talking Fruit

Buffysquirrel

Hapax Legomenon

Captcha

Would you do these things to reduce piracy?

starting over

Where have the last ten years gone?

Mildly Disturbing

Burninator!

Stand in the Place Where You Live

&#965;&#960;&#949;&#943;&#954;&#969;phobe

Burninator!

Beastly Fido

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Talking Fruit

υπείκωphobe