Roman Naming Conventions

WriteMinded · Aug 23, 2014

I want a character to be called Turibius.

The character introduces himself as Turibius Caelius Drusus. I'm thinking that I've got it backwards and it should be: Drusus (family name) Caelius (wtf) Turibius (given name).

What do you say?

Thanks!

Marian Perera · Aug 23, 2014

Just going by what I've read in Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome, there's the first name, the Praenomen, like Marcus or Gaius.

Then there's the Nomen, or family name, like Julius or Antonius, and finally the Cognomen, which was a surname and also had some sort of meaning, e.g. Caesar meant "a fine head of hair". Drusus is in the cognomen list in her book (like Marcus Livius Drusus).

That's all I've got, though.

ElaineA · Aug 23, 2014

My understanding jives with QoS. For my book, I'm using a real figure. The name inscribed on his seal ring is L. Crass Tert. So, Lucius (prenomen) Crassius (family name) Tertius (the 3rd). But this isn't to say that's how he would introduce himself. *not helpful*

King Neptune · Aug 23, 2014

This article appeas to have it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

benbenberi · Aug 23, 2014

What's the context for your character -- time period, ethnic background, etc.? The naming conventions were more rigid, and the range of acceptable names narrower, for native-born Romans (esp. upper class ones) of the Republican period than for provincials of the late Empire, esp. those whose families were of non-Roman origin.

Buffysquirrel · Aug 23, 2014

Not all Romans had cognomens.

WriteMinded · Aug 23, 2014

Sorry I disappeared. I had a disaster. One of my monitors died while I was having lunch. I had to scramble around and convince the computer to show me some stuff on my secondary screen. Agggh.

Queen of Swords said:
Just going by what I've read in Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome, there's the first name, the Praenomen, like Marcus or Gaius.

Then there's the Nomen, or family name, like Julius or Antonius, and finally the Cognomen, which was a surname and also had some sort of meaning, e.g. Caesar meant "a fine head of hair". Drusus is in the cognomen list in her book (like Marcus Livius Drusus).

That's all I've got, though.

Yeah, Cognomens were like nicknames and, unless I got it wrong, whole families sometimes took on the attachment and kept it as part of the family or clan name.

ElaineA said:
My understanding jives with QoS. For my book, I'm using a real figure. The name inscribed on his seal ring is L. Crass Tert. So, Lucius (prenomen) Crassius (family name) Tertius (the 3rd). But this isn't to say that's how he would introduce himself. *not helpful*

I see, so you are using the same order that we use today. I got the idea that they wrote their names with family name first, other stuff in the middle and praenomen last. Confusing and I wonder if someone ever reads my book, would they be confused if the guy says "My name is Drusus Caelius Turibius." And then everybody calls him Turibius.

King Neptune said:
This article appeas to have it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

Hey, I read that and still don't know which order to present the name.

benbenberi said:
What's the context for your character -- time period, ethnic background, etc.? The naming conventions were more rigid, and the range of acceptable names narrower, for native-born Romans (esp. upper class ones) of the Republican period than for provincials of the late Empire, esp. those whose families were of non-Roman origin.

The guy was born in Astorga (Hispania). He is Roman and Celt, 5th Century, transplanted to Britain. A bit of a stick and deeply religious and was named after a man who will become the Bishop of Astorga. None of which really matters. What matters is: How would he introduce himself to a bunch of wild Irishmen?

Guess I'm just going to stick with Turibius Caelius Drusus.

Elly_Green · Aug 23, 2014

The link given above is the best resource available. Depending on time period and citizen class of your character, the name would be different.

The only people to call someone by their praenomen: Marcus, Lucius, Gaius, etc. would be immediate family and really close friends, assuming your character is upper class. If your character is a middle-class citizen, foreign-born citizen, or freed slave, then this changes.

If you want your upper class character to be called Turibius by most in the story, then you'll want Turibius to be the characters nomen. So, he could be Gnaeus Turibius Drusus... though, Drusus, depending on your time frame is a very dangerous name in Rome during the time of the Empire. Dangerous enough to have the need to hide your name to be spared from the death trials.

Caelius is pretty safe, though, for a name.

My suggestion, not knowing any of your story's details, is this: pick one of the common praenomen off the link, then add Turibius Caelius to the end. Have anyone outside of family call him by Turibius Caelius and his family call him the praenomen.

All of this advice comes from a high school Latin teacher in the know. Use at your own risk.

Elly_Green · Aug 23, 2014

The guy was born in Astorga (Hispania). He is Roman and Celt, 5th Century, transplanted to Britain. A bit of a stick and deeply religious and was named after a man who will become the Bishop of Astorga. None of which really matters. What matters is: How would he introduce himself to a bunch of wild Irishmen?

Well, if that's all... if he's going to be talking to non-Romans, focus on the praenomen, Turibius, not the rest. The Celts wouldn't have understood. All the Celts of that region/time need to know is his first name and any connection they might view as less than Roman and more like them. Take a hint from the Arthur legend.

Artorius became Arthur... made him seem more "native" and thus more trustworthy.

ElaineA · Aug 23, 2014

WriteMinded said:
I see, so you are using the same order that we use today. I got the idea that they wrote their names with family name first, other stuff in the middle and praenomen last. Confusing and I wonder if someone ever reads my book, would they be confused if the guy says "My name is Drusus Caelius Turibius." And then everybody calls him Turibius.

Just to clarify, it's not so much that it's what I'm using. The seal ring is a real artifact, found in a town buried by the eruption of Vesuvius. This is how the real guy sealed his documents in 79 AD.

WriteMinded · Aug 23, 2014

Elly_Green said:
The link given above is the best resource available. Depending on time period and citizen class of your character, the name would be different.

The only people to call someone by their praenomen: Marcus, Lucius, Gaius, etc. would be immediate family and really close friends, assuming your character is upper class. If your character is a middle-class citizen, foreign-born citizen, or freed slave, then this changes.

If you want your upper class character to be called Turibius by most in the story, then you'll want Turibius to be the characters nomen. So, he could be Gnaeus Turibius Drusus... though, Drusus, depending on your time frame is a very dangerous name in Rome during the time of the Empire. Dangerous enough to have the need to hide your name to be spared from the death trials.

Caelius is pretty safe, though, for a name.

My suggestion, not knowing any of your story's details, is this: pick one of the common praenomen off the link, then add Turibius Caelius to the end. Have anyone outside of family call him by Turibius Caelius and his family call him the praenomen.

All of this advice comes from a high school Latin teacher in the know. Use at your own risk.

Didn't know that about Drusus. Well, haha, Turibius ran to Britain just after the Romans left (reasons unknown) so maybe he wouldn't be bandying his name around.

But, uh, I wanted to use the Bishop of Astorga's name, Turibius. Any reason I shouldn't? He has no POV and the only people he talks to in the book are my Irish guys.

King Neptune · Aug 24, 2014

WriteMinded said:
Hey, I read that and still don't know which order to present the name.

If you read the article, then you should have figured out that the normal order was Premomen, Nomen, Cognomen, as in Caius Julius Caesar.

WriteMinded · Aug 24, 2014

Thanks to everyone for your help.

King Neptune said:
If you read the article, then you should have figured out that the normal order was Premomen, Nomen, Cognomen, as in Caius Julius Caesar.

The article listed the names in that order, true. Gaius Julius Caesar - good point. And since it was good enough for Caesar, that is the way I will present my ficitonal character's name.

I was have looked at Roman headstones (online), or rather the translations of same, and saw this:

"**"To the good spirits of the departed and Flavius Fuscinus, veteran, former ordinarius,¹ he lived for fifty-five years."
AND
** "To the good spirits of the departed and Flavius Romanus, actarius,² he lived for thirty-five years, (killed) in service whilst standing up to the enemy."

...The possibility exists that the two men mentioned on the stone were related, as they shared the same genus or clan-name of Flavius, and indeed, shared the same tombstone. This supposition cannot be proven though..."

Their clan names are referenced first, praenomens second. Ergo, my confusion and the reason I posted here.

Nualláin · Aug 24, 2014

WriteMinded said:
I was have looked at Roman headstones (online), or rather the translations of same, and saw this:

"**"To the good spirits of the departed and Flavius Fuscinus, veteran, former ordinarius,¹ he lived for fifty-five years."
AND
** "To the good spirits of the departed and Flavius Romanus, actarius,² he lived for thirty-five years, (killed) in service whilst standing up to the enemy."

...The possibility exists that the two men mentioned on the stone were related, as they shared the same genus or clan-name of Flavius, and indeed, shared the same tombstone. This supposition cannot be proven though..."

Their clan names are referenced first, praenomens second. Ergo, my confusion and the reason I posted here.

Fuscinus and Romanus are not praenomina. They are both fairly common cognomina. The former means "the man who is dark (ie, of skin)", or "swarthy", or perhaps "hoarse (ie, of voice)", and the second, as I'm sure you can infer, means "the Roman (man)".

edit: Noting your time period, I should add that the Republican naming patterns had largely altered by the late Empire. Praenomina had fallen completely out of use in most areas, and either the cognomen alone or the nomen plus the cognomen were the way a Roman citizen was identified.

WriteMinded · Aug 25, 2014

Thanks. I've figured out what to call my Roman-blooded, Astorgan-born, Brit.

Roman Naming Conventions

WriteMinded

Derailed

Marian Perera

starting over

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

King Neptune

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW

Buffysquirrel

WriteMinded

Derailed

Elly_Green

Daydreamer or Living Nightmare

Elly_Green

Daydreamer or Living Nightmare

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

WriteMinded

Derailed

King Neptune

WriteMinded

Derailed

Nualláin

WriteMinded

Derailed