Teen Shot for Walking across Lawn

AnneMarble · Mar 21, 2006

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006130301,00.html

Aargh! This guy shot the kid for walking across his lawn. Apparently neighbors say it was a "meticulously kept" lawn, and he often got upset about neighbors walking across his lawn.

The shooter also said he had been harrassed by the kid and his parents for years. It would be interesting to hear more about this story as it is revealed. Were they really harrassing him, or did he just fly off the handle at anything?

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 21, 2006

Well that was just not very forward thinking. Yes, he got the teen to stop walking across the grass, but now he's got an even bigger mess what with the body and the blood and the subsequent trampling of the lawn by the police and the media and such.

I find it much easier to just scream, "Get off my f---ing lawn you *******!"

jenngreenleaf · Mar 21, 2006

It's so sad.

AnneMarble said:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006130301,00.html

Aargh! This guy shot the kid for walking across his lawn. Apparently neighbors say it was a "meticulously kept" lawn, and he often got upset about neighbors walking across his lawn.

The shooter also said he had been harrassed by the kid and his parents for years. It would be interesting to hear more about this story as it is revealed. Were they really harrassing him, or did he just fly off the handle at anything?

Isn't it amazing what people will do when pushed to the brink? I think we've all seen neighbors who would have like to have done something like this . . . it's terrible!

This would make an interesting plot . . .

Maryn · Mar 21, 2006

I am guessing that there's a whole lot to this story that we're not seeing--none of which excuses murdering a 15-year-old kid for being on your lawn, of course.

Neighbors who fail to recognize boundaries and mistreat your property over a five-year period may push a man whose mental balance is iffy into the red zone.

Maryn, whose neighbor's kids have been treated to a stroke-tempting shriekfest when they painted designs and wrote their names on our cedar fence, house, and driveway with oil-based housepaint (the parents didn't care--"Kids will be kids!")

SC Harrison · Mar 21, 2006

AnneMarble said:
Were they really harrassing him, or did he just fly off the handle at anything?

Odd people are often targeted by "normal" people for harassment. These same normal people don't understand why a person would be offended by something they think is meaningless, like walking across their property.

This is total supposition (backed up by what I see every day), but it sounds like the parents of this kid chose to disregard the man's desire (albeit odd) to preserve his personal property. He had probably complained to them about their son trespassing in the beginning, but instead of telling their son to stay off his property, they probably defended his right to do whatever he wanted.

I'm going to take the low road on this one and chalk it up to "evolution in action".

Celia Cyanide · Mar 21, 2006

I think someone who would do something like this is likely paranoid, and could very well think he is being harassed, when he's not. But that's just my take. I have no idea.

In others news, it appears they caught the Jordie Ripper!

maestrowork · Mar 21, 2006

He won't have his pristine lawn for long, I predict.

underthecity · Mar 21, 2006

I've been watching this on the news (local here) and I have to admit I feel really bad for the guy. He had been harrassed by the kid for several years, and complained to the police once. He kept a neat lawn, and this kid was pushing his buttons. Finally he couldn't stand it any longer and shot him to death. Yes, it is tragic, and the man went way too far. He immediately called 911 and told over the phone what he did.

As a result, this 66 year old man, who was trying to quietly enjoy his retirement years, will likely spend the rest of his life in jail for doing something he never meant to do. He wasn't a murderer or psychopath. Just a regular guy.

allen

SC Harrison · Mar 21, 2006

underthecity said:
He had been harrassed by the kid for several years, and complained to the police once.

He probably complained to the kid's parents first, and got little or no help. Which is a tacit approval of his behavior, whether they will admit it or not.

Not to turn this into a diatribe against parents, but, when I was growing up, adults were to be given a minimum level of respect by young people. They didn't have to "prove" their worth first, and if another adult told my parents about something they had observed me doing wrong, my a$$ got tore up just as vigorously as if my parents had seen it themselves.

Things are different now. When other adults have confrontations with children, even teachers, parents go to great lengths to defend the acts of their kids, even when they are blatantly wrong. The only way for young people to learn (or even understand) personal responsibility, is for there to be consequences for their actions. Frankly, I'm not seeing it (much) anymore. This problem will not fix itself; indeed, each generation will produce higher instances of irresponsible behavior, leading to what?

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 21, 2006

I agree. I'm not defending someone for killing another, but it's the parents' fault in this case for not instilling basic beliefs such as respect for your elders, respect for other people's property, and common courtesy.

Celia Cyanide · Mar 21, 2006

underthecity said:
I've been watching this on the news (local here) and I have to admit I feel really bad for the guy. He had been harrassed by the kid for several years, and complained to the police once.

Do you know for certain that he was being harassed by this kid, or is that just what he says? He might just think that.

underthecity said:
As a result, this 66 year old man, who was trying to quietly enjoy his retirement years, will likely spend the rest of his life in jail for doing something he never meant to do. He wasn't a murderer or psychopath. Just a regular guy.

I don't know about that. I don't really know, but he could be a paranoid psychopath. And I can't really feel bad for him at all, because he was upset about something that doesn't really matter. If he hadn't put so much emphasis on something as incosequential as having a perfect lawn, this probably wouldn't have happened. It doesn't matter that much. He just made it matter.

NeuroFizz · Mar 21, 2006

Each state has rules about using lethal force for individual protection and protection of property, but I suspect this one goes way over that line. This may be one of those extremely unfortunate events where a lot of little wrongs add up to a huge wrong. And everyone involved loses.

maestrowork · Mar 21, 2006

We are all responsible for our own actions, and if we can't let something go and do something of that nature, we'll have to face the consequences. The kid paid for his actions. And now the old man has to pay for his. There are always choices and options, and when the guy picks up a gun and shoot someone else, saying "but I'm a victim" just won't cut it.

SC Harrison · Mar 21, 2006

Celia Cyanide said:
If he hadn't put so much emphasis on something as incosequential as having a perfect lawn, this probably wouldn't have happened. It doesn't matter that much. He just made it matter.

See, that's the crux of the problem. I'm not singling you out Celia—I have this argument with my kids frequently.

Respect is not just about saying "sir" and "ma'am", it's about the way we value the desires and beliefs of others. I try to operate from the viewpoint "If it's important to you, then it's important to me." I know this sounds naive, and it doesn't mean that I am constantly discovering new important things thanks to other people; it just means I respect the value system of others, even if I don't understand or agree with it.

If this man placed an unnaturally high value on the sanctity and appearance of his property, that should be respected, even if it seems out of place. By intentionally trespassing on his property, this kid was doing more than just taking a short-cut; he was attacking the man's personal value system, in an effort to provoke some kind of response. He got his response.

roach · Mar 21, 2006

SC Harrison said:
Things are different now. When other adults have confrontations with children, even teachers, parents go to great lengths to defend the acts of their kids, even when they are blatantly wrong. The only way for young people to learn (or even understand) personal responsibility, is for there to be consequences for their actions. Frankly, I'm not seeing it (much) anymore. This problem will not fix itself; indeed, each generation will produce higher instances of irresponsible behavior, leading to what?

"Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers." -- Socrates

Jcomp · Mar 21, 2006

Regardless of whether this kid was "harassing" him or not by walking on the lawn, there are a lot of ways to make your point about having someone respect your property that fall short of shooting a teenager to death. If the parents were indeed so irresponsible as to let their child run amok, trampling lawns so feloniously & whatnot, maybe you shoot them instead. But even that's wildly unacceptable.

If the kid was harassing the guy, that's his bad, no question. The parents should not be complicit in such behavior. But that's no excuse to grab a gun and shoot anybody. And I'm not some "bleeding heart" who thinks someone shouldn't defend themselves, I can think of a number of solid reasons to kill, maim, maul or otherwise severely injure someone. Walking across a lawn, no matter how pristine, doesn't qualify. He could've shot the kid in the leg or arm. Or took a sh*t on the offending neighbor's lawn. Egged their house. Kidnapped their dog. That's just the immature, "fly off the handle" reactions, none of which would likely be fatal.
I know lots of "regular guys," and none of 'em has shot anybody over something so trivial.

Lantern Jack · Mar 21, 2006

The folks across the way (he's an ex-Navy Seal and a firefighter, she's a homemaker) own this blonde lab named Casey who regards our lawn as her lavatory. She also invades our property and snarls at us if we're out of the house at the same time. I'm never one for violence, particularly violence against animals, but if I were this fellow in the papers, and this dog was on my lawn...KABLAMMO!!!

blacbird · Mar 21, 2006

By any account I've seen, this guy was hardly "defending himself." And I'm with Celia; this event is a per se definition of a bad mental illness. The obsession with the grass itself probably is.

caw.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 21, 2006

I had a neighbor who came out of his house one day with a shotgun and blasted the sh!t out of a squirrel on his feeder. In the middle of the city.

I've also had people take pot shots at me and my friends with rock salt when we was trespassin through their "country estates."

robeiae · Mar 21, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I've also had people take pot shots at me and my friends with rock salt when we was trespassin through their "country estates."

It wasn't rock salt, it was ground taco shells.

SC Harrison · Mar 21, 2006

Jcomp said:
If the kid was harassing the guy, that's his bad, no question. The parents should not be complicit in such behavior. But that's no excuse to grab a gun and shoot anybody.

Of course it isn't. Lawn mower man committed murder, or at least manslaughter. He will (and should) be incarcerated for a lengthy period, where he will then be able to violently protect his half of the cell.

My point is this: had the boy's parents respected the wishes of their neighbor, their support (of him) may have curbed the behavior of their son. He would at least have been misbehaving without the perceived approval of his parents, which may have made a big difference in the way lawn mower man felt about the issue.

Lantern Jack · Mar 21, 2006

blacbird said:
By any account I've seen, this guy was hardly "defending himself." And I'm with Celia; this event is a per se definition of a bad mental illness. The obsession with the grass itself probably is.

caw.

Doesn't matter. According to a police chief I know, the "insanity plea" almost never works. Ever seen the fantastic doc, Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer, on the trial and last days of Aileen Wuornos? Anybody who watches that film, there is no doubt left in their minds: This woman is completely out of it. However, she wasn't spared the death penalty. Juries want to see justice. There's a whole revenge motivation thing going on, my police chief friend said, and contrary to popular opinion, the insanity plea is rarely successful. You see, there are whole degrees of insanity: Mentally ill but still able to differentiate between right and wrong; completely schizophrenic, mind wholly rent and divorced from reality. The latter is pretty much the only type likely to win on an insanity plea, but even then, it's the longest of shots.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 21, 2006

It really wasn't that long of shot. Maybe three or four yards from the porch to where the kid was standing.

Sorry.

Lantern Jack · Mar 21, 2006

Jcomp said:
Regardless of whether this kid was "harassing" him or not by walking on the lawn, there are a lot of ways to make your point about having someone respect your property that fall short of shooting a teenager to death. If the parents were indeed so irresponsible as to let their child run amok, trampling lawns so feloniously & whatnot, maybe you shoot them instead. But even that's wildly unacceptable.

If the kid was harassing the guy, that's his bad, no question. The parents should not be complicit in such behavior. But that's no excuse to grab a gun and shoot anybody. And I'm not some "bleeding heart" who thinks someone shouldn't defend themselves, I can think of a number of solid reasons to kill, maim, maul or otherwise severely injure someone. Walking across a lawn, no matter how pristine, doesn't qualify. He could've shot the kid in the leg or arm. Or took a sh*t on the offending neighbor's lawn. Egged their house. Kidnapped their dog. That's just the immature, "fly off the handle" reactions, none of which would likely be fatal.
I know lots of "regular guys," and none of 'em has shot anybody over something so trivial.

The way I remember we dealt with offending neighbors (or particularly tedious preachers) when I was living in Tennessee: we rolled their houses. We went out to the Piggly Wiggly and bought 200 rolls of toilet paper and literally rolled them around every single inch of this person's house and lawn, weaving it through every tree branch, through every trellis rung. And if we really didn't like them, we'd lube up the handles on their car doors with Vaseline.

Ah, sweet revenge :box:

Celia Cyanide · Mar 21, 2006

Lantern Jack said:
Doesn't matter. According to a police chief I know, the "insanity plea" almost never works.

My point was not about the insanity plea, Lantern, but about the fact that the only evidence presented in the article that the boy was actually harassing the man was that the man said so. Either way, the man is in trouble. But I would argue that a lawn is a very silly thing to kill a human being over, and anyone who would do that might have a very broad definition of the word "harassment." It's possible the kid was harassing him, but let's not ignore the possibility that than man was delusional.

Teen Shot for Walking across Lawn

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Court Jester

Here to network and learn.

At Sea

Dances With Hamsters

Joker Groupie

Fear the Death Ray

Finestkind

Dances With Hamsters

Court Jester

Joker Groupie

The grad students did it

Fear the Death Ray

Dances With Hamsters

annoyed and annoying

My kitten knows kung-fu!

Court Jester

Touch and go

Dances With Hamsters

My kitten knows kung-fu!

Court Jester

My kitten knows kung-fu!

Joker Groupie