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Julie Reilly
06-26-2014, 05:53 PM
Any Army types here? Does any know how a captain would order his squad back into a helicopter, rather than saying "Oy, you lot - get back in the helicopter!"

WeaselFire
06-26-2014, 06:04 PM
What is the situation? Normally, it would be "Get back in the helicopter (helo, chopper, whatever...)."

Jeff

mirandashell
06-26-2014, 06:05 PM
And whose Army?

T Robinson
06-26-2014, 06:33 PM
If they follow chain of command, he would tell the Lt or Sgt to take care of it. IMO

onesecondglance
06-26-2014, 06:34 PM
"Get in da choppah!"

(said with a heavy Austrian accent)

fdesrochers
06-26-2014, 07:37 PM
Depends entirely on the scenario. A Captain is likely leading much more than a squad; typically a platoon or company.

Airmobile operations are typically well planned at either end. You assemble your chalks, wait for the helos to arrive, embark and then wait for the next flight(s) to come get the remainder. Embarkation drills are typically limited verbally, simply because of the noise; lots of hand signals.

At the other end, it is reflection of how things went. After landing, conducting the operation, it is dependent on whether you're leaving under contact or not.

Julie Reilly
06-26-2014, 07:59 PM
If they follow chain of command, he would tell the Lt or Sgt to take care of it. IMO

You're talking to a total novice so I need spoonfeeding.

How would he talk to the sgt and how would the sgt then instruct the troops?

It is American army set about 50 years in the future so I can be a little creative, but it still needs to sound realistic.

espresso5
06-26-2014, 08:09 PM
What kind of unit is it? Captains can lead anywhere from a small to team to a battalion sized unit (before all the chair-born rangers jump down my throat-yes it can happen due to attrition or having a talented Captain).
What level of operation is it? A ten man team doing a quick in and out or a company level operation as part of a larger operation?
What kind of chopper is it? A Black Hawk that can hold a few guys or a Chinook that can hold 30+?

T Robinson
06-26-2014, 08:11 PM
The recent military folks will tell you, but you need to give them an idea of the situation. If it is routine, it might just be, "Load up." But I think a Captain is overkill for one helicopter. It might be a Lt or even just a Sgt. A Captain would be over more people than would fit on one (usually, to my understanding).

And if it is a hot LZ (landing zone), they will just get on without orders so they can get out of there.

Julie Reilly
06-26-2014, 08:41 PM
Okay - it's a remote farm out in the sticks which is home to some very unauthorised people. The helicopter is a big one - carrying about 40 troops.

There is a gun fight but the people are hopelessly outgunned. The unauthorised people get wiped out but the captain isn't convinced they've got them all and the guy who knows isn't telling, so he leaves his lieutenant and a soldier to guard the place and perform a thorough search while he goes back to truth serum the guy who he thinks has the info he needs about whether there are more people.

I'm at the point where he's told the lieutenant and the private to stay behind and he's ordering the rest of the soldiers back onto the helicopter.

Trebor1415
06-26-2014, 09:50 PM
I'm at the point where he's told the lieutenant and the private to stay behind and he's ordering the rest of the soldiers back onto the helicopter.


First off, he wouldn't leave just two people behind to guard the place, and especially not a Lt. and a private.

Two people can't possibly guard a perimeter. And, even if they could, I can't think of any reason for a combination of a Lt. and a single private. (Also, two people can't do a thorough search, or even provide security for themselves to keep from getting ambushed by someone they missed while searching)

A Lt. would be a Platoon Leader in charge of about 40 (give or take) people. If there was some reason to leave a single soldier behind he'd be left with a Sgt, not an officer.

If they came in with a Company sized element commanded by a Capt. were talking about them landing about 80 to 150 people. (Depending on the type of Company, it's authorized manpower, it's actual manpower, and whether the whole Company goes on the mission).

If you assume they land at least 30 or 40 soldiers, minimum, and want to leave someone behind to guard the place, most likely they'd order a single squad to stay behind. A squad is made up of 8 - 12 men at full strength and would be commanded by a Sgt.

A single squad, or most of a squad, would really be the minimum they'd want to detach. If they had a larger force going in they might leave even more behind to guard, depending on the situation.

As to how to order the men back on the helicopter (s) the Capt. would tell the Platoon Leaders that they were moving out and the Platoon Leaders would tell the Sgts, who would order the men to board the vehicles.

It would be something like, "Ok, we're moving out. Leave one squad to secure the perimeter and get everyone ready to board the choppers."

Julie Reilly
06-26-2014, 10:00 PM
Hmm - in that case how can I have a teenage boy and a teenage girl armed with guns to take out a squad of 8-12 soldiers also armed with guns and with full body armour? Granted they have the element of surprise as the squad does not know they are there and they have a really good hiding place.

Thank you, BTW - I'm clearly going to have to totally rethink this part of it. The kids have to escape - somehow.

Should also add the farm is surrounded by a high perimeter fence and heavily padlocked gates - it is to keep the unauthorised people's enemies OUT rather than keep the people in, so the kids have the key to the padlock. It's also in the middle of a forest - VERY remote.

mirandashell
06-26-2014, 10:01 PM
Grenades?

BDSEmpire
06-26-2014, 11:59 PM
Have them create a distraction and then run like hell while the soldiers are checking things out. Otherwise I'd expect two teens to be killed when facing actual soldiers.

Trebor1415
06-27-2014, 12:24 AM
Hmm - in that case how can I have a teenage boy and a teenage girl armed with guns to take out a squad of 8-12 soldiers also armed with guns and with full body armour? Granted they have the element of surprise as the squad does not know they are there and they have a really good hiding place.

Thank you, BTW - I'm clearly going to have to totally rethink this part of it. The kids have to escape - somehow.

Should also add the farm is surrounded by a high perimeter fence and heavily padlocked gates - it is to keep the unauthorised people's enemies OUT rather than keep the people in, so the kids have the key to the padlock. It's also in the middle of a forest - VERY remote.

Two kids might be able to escape from the soldiers, but taking out the soldiers, no way.

As to how the kids escape, depends on how you write the situation. Maybe they were elsewhere in the area doing chores or something when the raid happened and saw the helicopters and knew to run and not come back.

Or, if they aren't related, maybe they were making out in the woods or something.

Or maybe they hid, really well, and were able to sneak out while the soldiers were checking a different area.

Oh, one thing I forgot. Google up "Osprey tilt rotor." The Marines use that now and I predict that kind of tilt rotor tech may largely replace military helicopters by 50 years from now. Of nothing else, a tilt rotor would seem more "futuristic" for a near future story than a plain old helicopter.

Day Agent
06-27-2014, 01:54 AM
A disguised, yet undiscovered machine-gun emplacement? If they'd get the drop on them, a pillbox would be able to take a bit of a pounding while the teenagers fumble their way through shooting up a platoon.

wendymarlowe
06-27-2014, 03:23 AM
"Get in da choppah!"

(said with a heavy Austrian accent)

This is EXACTLY what I was going to say :-D

WeaselFire
06-27-2014, 04:49 AM
The kids have to escape - somehow.
They don't fire. Escape is a silent and stealthy process. Drainage ditches and other cover are common means of escape.

Or they could be rescued by the winged night demons and their invisibility powers...

I have no idea what genre you're writing. :)

Jeff

debirlfan
06-27-2014, 05:24 AM
If whoever is in charge of the farm is smart, there's going to be an escape route. Very possibly a tunnel that ends somewhere outside the fence. If they're that worried about keeping people from sneaking in through the tunnel, then either there's a locked door or it's booby trapped - but the kids know how to bypass the trap.

Julie Reilly
06-27-2014, 10:34 AM
They are hiding in a cellar, the entrance to which is hidden in the false back of a cupboard and heavily bolted from the inside. I did think about a tunnel, but I've got people escaping through a tunnel in another book, and I didn't want to duplicate it.

Obviously don't want any deus ex machina type escape - they have to do it themselves.

There could be a hidden gate elsewhere in the perimeter fence, if I can get them out of the cellar while the soldiers are not in the building.

I really wanted them to kill one - I had a gory scene all visualised. Maybe they can kill one if they take him by surprise and he's in their way.

Trebor 1415 - Thanks for the heads-up on the Osprey tilt rotor - I'll look that up.

RamblingRector
06-27-2014, 11:35 AM
Another thing which may or may not be a factor in your writing: in such a scenario the guys on the ground don't make the final decision about when to enter the helicopter or which door(s) to use.

Since from a helicopter cockpit the view is forward only (and downward to a certain extent) in large transport helicopters the two pilots rely on the Loadmaster, who roams around the cabin and with whom they are in constant contact via the aircraft's interphone. The loadie (as these chaps are vulgarly termed, at least in the RAF) signals the troops wishing to board, indicating when it's safe to approach the aircraft, and then tells the pilots when to take off (usually, in a stressful situation, before niceties such as closing the doors — he's on a long safety harness so that he could be retrieved if he did fall out, which given the pitch and roll of the aircraft when taking off in such a scenario is a possibility, although I have never seen it happen).

There's a little information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loadmaster

Incidentally, I'm only familiar with the British situation, where transport helicopters are exclusively flown by the RAF and not by the British Army — but I've noticed that in America there is a certain tendency to do things differently, so depending on where your book is set that may or may not be true. However, I've a feeling that the USAF do fly Chinooks, for instance. (The info in the above link does seem to imply that Loadmasters are deployed by the USAF too).

Cheers,

Brian

[Later edit]
P.S. I forgot to mention that depending on how many troops are involved in your operation, a single Chinook (for example) might not be enough. As far as I can remember the carrying capacity was just over thirty troops.....

Hendo
06-27-2014, 06:21 PM
"Get in da choppah!"

(said with a heavy Austrian accent)

Win.

Steve Collins
06-27-2014, 09:02 PM
"Head back to the LZ for Exfil" (exfiltration) is how i'd say it.

fdesrochers
06-28-2014, 12:42 AM
Set 50 years on the future, you can get fairly creative with your transport options; tilt-rotor, VTOL, hover technology, etc. That said, the rate of technological advancements means that the typical soldier will likely have a suite of optics and detection technology, drones, UAVs and the like. Heck, depending on the operation, they likely have a heavy drone or plane on stand-by, maybe even circling above them. This is happening real-time today, so no reason it wouldn't occur later, short of a major change in tactics based on technology.

As far as your scenario goes, sure, granted two people in an ambush scenario could kill a couple to multitude of soldiers. That is the nature of asymmetrical warfare. Set up enough explosives/IEDs and have them walk into a kill zone with enough firepower trained into it, a pair of people could cause some havoc. I daresay it's impact would be limited to the outset of the battle. Soldiers train in reaction drills to help overcome the shock. How long it takes them to train in on the source of the fire and start countering is dependent on a number of factors.

From the sounds of it, you may be encroaching on Red Dawn territory (either the original film or the remake). From an escapist perspective, sure it was fun to watch the Patrick Swayze version as a teenager. As an adult Infantry officer, I have to suspend a great amount of reality at the door, enough that the movie and the cliche ideas therein are largely lost on me.

Julie Reilly
06-28-2014, 05:27 PM
I wouldn't know about Red Dawn. The army part of it is a very small part.

debirlfan
06-30-2014, 06:00 AM
If you want them to kill someone... Let's say the kids wait till dark before making a run for the secret gate in the fence. By then, the remaining troops will have searched the area and figure there's no one there - and probably have let their guard down a bit. On the way to the gate, the kids run into a lone soldier - someone who's snuck off a bit for a smoke, or is taking a leak. They have to kill him (quickly and quietly) before he can raise the alarm.

Julie Reilly
06-30-2014, 06:06 PM
Thanks for your help, everyone. I have rewritten the army scene so far. Would anyone be willing to take a quick look at it, and make any changes necessary to make it realistic. It's not very long - I can email it.

Also, it is a script, not a novel, so it's just basic dialogue and action - only 582 words, although if you were willing, I might need more help with bits and bobs as I go through.

Julie Reilly
06-30-2014, 07:52 PM
Sorry - didn't mean to scare people off by saying it was "only" 582 pages - I meant 582 WORDS.

Have edited accordingly.

fdesrochers
06-30-2014, 09:20 PM
LOL, so long as it is on 600-ish words, I'd be willing to have a look at it.

Julie Reilly
06-30-2014, 11:08 PM
That would be great - thank you. Can you PM me your email address?