Widespread US Police Surveillance Is Happening In Total Secrecy

This is why Holder needs a domestic terrorism task force. This sort of irresponsible reporting has to be stopped.

Here We Go Again...

Summer begins in a few weeks and along with the crabgrass you can't get out of your lawn here comes the black helicopters and FEMA camps.

Absolute Write Politics and Current Events: Now With 50% more paranoid scaremongering.

Diana Hignutt said:

The thing is that getting permission for electronic surveillance techniques — including tracking metadata and gathering all cellphones connected to a cell tower — is easier than getting a search or wiretap warrant.

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Gives entirely new meaning to "supply and demand."

None of this stuff surprises me. All the people screaming for safety over freedom after 9/11 should be happy, though. It's what they wanted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQKsYXH2LCM

"You are being watched. The government has a secret system —a machine— that spies on you every hour of every day. I know, because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people. People like you. Crimes the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us. But, victim or perpetrator, if your number's up, we'll find you."

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Meh. Personally, I'm of a mind to think that the police need watching. Or at least, accountability. We've talked about it a lot around here, actually.

And how are we supposed to do that if these things are kept secret long after they need to be? If it's not national security, but domestic police investigations, I seriously doubt that they need to be kept under lock and key after cases have been adjudicated. This smells to me, too.

Diana Hignutt said:

Some are truly delighted at the new police state norm...but, here's a hint for such people...police states don't end well for the populace as a general rule...

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Yawn.

Ever wonder why it is those most afraid of "the new police state" have yet to be awakened at 3:00 a.m. by the delicate sound of doors splintering and windows shattering, jackboots pounding up the steps, blinded by the glare of flashlights in the eyes, cuffs clamped on the wrists, bound and gagged, frog-walked then bum-rushed into the back of a black S.W.A.T. vehicle, drugged, thrown into the cargo hold of a C-130 and dropped off like so much freight directly into Gitmo to be personally waterboarded by Evil Dick Cheney and Eviler Michelle Obama with all the other enemies of the state?

I don't. Because it's a total load.

The fact none of these terrible awful no good bad things have ever happened to the Chicken Little Conspiracy Theorists does nothing to assuage their constant state of hair-on-fire certainty that any day now that morning visit is coming.

I wonder if they dread it or crave it?

Cranky said:

Meh. Personally, I'm of a mind to think that the police need watching. Or at least, accountability. We've talked about it a lot around here, actually.

And how are we supposed to do that if these things are kept secret long after they need to be? If it's not national security, but domestic police investigations, I seriously doubt that they need to be kept under lock and key after cases have been adjudicated. This smells to me, too.

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Even if it's national security they have procedures and rules to follow, and 'gathering metadata' goes against the fourth as well.
There's a reason that we have a constitutional protection, and them saying 'we suspect everyone in area code 770 of having links to terrorist networks' is utter horse shit.
Follow the law. Being 'fed' is not a free pass.

nighttimer said:

Yawn.

Ever wonder why it is those most afraid of "the new police state" have yet to be awakened at 3:00 a.m. by the delicate sound of doors splintering and windows shattering, jackboots pounding up the steps, blinded by the glare of flashlights in the eyes, cuffs clamped on the wrists, bound and gagged, frog-walked then bum-rushed into the back of a black S.W.A.T. vehicle, drugged, thrown into the cargo hold of a C-130 and dropped off like so much freight directly into Gitmo to be personally waterboarded by Evil Dick Cheney and Eviler Michelle Obama with all the other enemies of the state?

I don't. Because it's a total load.

The fact none of these terrible awful no good bad things have ever happened to the Chicken Little Conspiracy Theorists does nothing to assuage their constant state of hair-on-fire certainty that any day now that morning visit is coming.

I wonder if they dread it or crave it?

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Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Not one tyrannical government started out that way.

nighttimer said:

Yawn.

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A lot of folks who ended up having their homes broken into and being hauled off at gun point to various camps didn't believe it would happen either.

Everyone who believes that we can't complacently sit back and trust the authorities to behave is not some kind of nut case. It's called understanding human nature and the temptations of power.

They don't dread it, they use it.

Scaring the pee-wadding out of the ignorant by preaching doom at the hands of a shadowy minority is an old, time honored method of control. It worked for Hitler, Pol Pot, the KKK, organized religion, Joe Stalin, Joe McCarthy, or ___________________,( supply any despot or tyrannical rule that comes to mind.) --s6

shakeysix said:

They don't dread it, they use it.

Scaring the pee-wadding out of the ignorant by preaching doom at the hands of a shadowy minority is an old, time honored method of control. It worked for Hitler, Pol Pot, the KKK, organized religion, Joe Stalin, Joe McCarthy, or ___________________,( supply any despot or tyrannical rule that comes to mind.) --s6

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Good point.

"They hate us for our freedoms" has convinced shitloads of people to give those freedoms up willingly.

"Media, you're doing a heck of a job!"

Yeah. It's the media. The liberal media of course. That other media is fair and balanced. --s6

shakeysix said:

Yeah. It's the media. The liberal media of course. That other media is fair and balanced. --s6

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Hahahahaha. Which other media? Faux News is every bit as bad as MSDNC. They all have the same assignment: promote divisiveness so people don't wake up and go after the crooks in Mordor on the Potomac who have long worked together hand in hand to serve their corporate masters.

Considering that Faux news bangs the war drums most loudly, I'm surprised you even came up with that line.

The enemy is not "the other team." There is no "other team." There's only one team, and it's devoted to expanding the power of the oligarchy. That's settled science.

A pox on both their houses.

I think it can be acknowledged that the US government has done horrendous things in the name of security - internment camps and McCarthyism, for two obvious examples. I don't know why people are so willing to believe that it isn't happening now. I find it ironic that the people who paint everyone with legitimate concerns as "crazy conspiracy theorists" who only play on people's fears, refuse to see that the government leaders have done and are doing the same thing, and rather blatantly. Apparently our leaders have really mastered the fine art of propaganda.

shadowwalker, I couldn't agree more. The art of propaganda has come a long long way. The existence of Faux Nooz as a sort of lightning rod makes the others look balanced in contrast, when in my perception they are more as Diana says, pretty far into showmanship and tool function, not so good at genuine journalism.

And honestly? To me, that is old news.

I don't think widespread police surveillance is happening in total secrecy so much as that most people have been skillfully led to ignore what's fairly obvious if one pays attention. Some things are hidden, it is true, but there has been a tremendous amount of public commentary about the legalistic erosion of the Constitution since 9/11 and the various application of powers riding in on that erosion....

Sorry, I am stepping away from the soapbox right now. Over to the next!

"What if it can read our minds?"

"He'll be real mad when he gets to me."

nighttimer said:

Yawn.

Ever wonder why it is those most afraid of "the new police state" have yet to be awakened at 3:00 a.m. by the delicate sound of doors splintering and windows shattering, jackboots pounding up the steps, blinded by the glare of flashlights in the eyes, cuffs clamped on the wrists, bound and gagged, frog-walked then bum-rushed into the back of a black S.W.A.T. vehicle, drugged, thrown into the cargo hold of a C-130 and dropped off like so much freight directly into Gitmo to be personally waterboarded by Evil Dick Cheney and Eviler Michelle Obama with all the other enemies of the state?

I don't. Because it's a total load.

The fact none of these terrible awful no good bad things have ever happened to the Chicken Little Conspiracy Theorists does nothing to assuage their constant state of hair-on-fire certainty that any day now that morning visit is coming.

I wonder if they dread it or crave it?

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It's NOT a total load, NT. We've had people locked up indefinitely post 9-11, never charged, languishing in jail, based on who-knows-what evidence. (Maybe even some rounded up by those crappy wiretaps, eh?) So maybe the heavy handed sarcasm and passive aggressive swipes might not be the best accoutrements to your argument...which, by the way, is -- what, exactly? Conspiracy theorists are nuts who crave attention? Because that's not very respectful, is it?

The Japanese internment camps weren't figments of people's imagination, and neither is Gitmo. Maybe the average citizen doesn't have much to worry about in that regard, but let's not pretend like the government and the police aren't fucking people over on the regular, because we KNOW they have. And the less people care, the more they'll do. Give 'em an inch, and they'll take a mile.

Mad-Eye Moody had it right with his "Constant Vigilance!".

The thing is, it is not necessarily going to happen in a way that decks you in the face and steals your wallet in front of you. These things often happen incrementally, one step at a time with each step being totally justified. We see steps now including people being jailed for internet posts, police becoming increasingly militarized and arresting people while out for a jog in the park or getting bottled water, the NSA coverup, federal land grabs for all sorts of justifications [not talking the Bundy case here but other cases where fed agencies pulled these stunts without provocation] and on and on and if each time the American citizens insist it is no big deal whatsoever and was totally justified, these things can add up and shock people with what they have been tolerating all these years.

shadowwalker said:

I think it can be acknowledged that the US government has done horrendous things in the name of security - internment camps and McCarthyism, for two obvious examples. I don't know why people are so willing to believe that it isn't happening now. I find it ironic that the people who paint everyone with legitimate concerns as "crazy conspiracy theorists" who only play on people's fears, refuse to see that the government leaders have done and are doing the same thing, and rather blatantly. Apparently our leaders have really mastered the fine art of propaganda.

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They refuse to see it because they voted for the ones bringing it about, which points a finger directly at them, and that is something many cannot bring themselves to face.

benluby said:

They refuse to see it because they voted for the ones bringing it about, which points a finger directly at them, and that is something many cannot bring themselves to face.

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To be fair though, in some cases they are choosing between two options that are equally horrific and so they would need to be completely conditioned away from voting from either one of the main two political parties and that would require intensive movements organized at the grassroots level. If you want to see what the two party system can do in terms of having two abysmal candidates, look no further than my home state of Virginia, where Terry McAuliffe and Ken Cuccinelli were competing for governor. The choices were a complete crook out to wreck businesses and property rights and a psycho morality crusader who wanted to regulate people's activities in their own house.

Back to the thread topic, this is another angle on the issue; the federal government sells the technology to local police departments and advises them to keep quiet about its use:

http://news.yahoo.com/us-pushing-local-cops-stay-mum-surveillance-174651771--politics.html

The Obama administration has been quietly advising local police not to disclose details about surveillance technology they are using to sweep up basic cellphone data from entire neighborhoods, The Associated Press has learned.

Citing security reasons, the U.S. has intervened in routine state public records cases and criminal trials regarding use of the technology. This has resulted in police departments withholding materials or heavily censoring documents in rare instances when they disclose any about the purchase and use of such powerful surveillance equipment.

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