Any veterinarians in the house?

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Pondering a story idea and am wondering about something. If a person came to a vet, looking to have a dog euthanized, but upon examination and interview, it's discovered that there's nothing more wrong with the dog than I-don't-want-it-anymore. No physical or behavioral issues, just that the owner wants the dog put down and is adamant against anyone else taking the dog.

Presumably the vet would refuse. Would that be the end of it? Is there an entity to report this too?

I used to run fish tanks, but have never taken an animal to the vet.
 

Dollywagon

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It may depend on which country you are in, but in the UK it used to be down to the discretion of the vet concerned. One vet I worked for would never do it, then another vet came and I took an immediate dislike (mild phrase) when he destroyed a pair of perfectly healthy whippets simply because the owner didn't want them anymore.
 

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There really isn't an organization to report it to, and what happens is up to the individual veterinarian. Some vets would go through with it according to the owner's wishes. Some will instead tell the owner, "Yes, we will do this." and then simply take the animal in and then call a local rescue organization such as the Humane Society to come in and pick up the animal as abandoned. Or the vet may simply tell the owner, "No. We won't do that." and ask them to leave.
 

Dollywagon

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Just as a quick point of interest; if a vet agrees to put down an animal then the owner has to sign a form. If the vet subsequently rehomes the animal and gets found out, then he gets struck off. May sound far fetched, but I know someone it happened to because the dog ran away and went back to its previous home...

and I'll tell you a funny to go with it.
I was an animal nurse and I took home a dog that was supposed to be destroyed. Admittedly it was done in error - one person thought another person had asked the owner if it could be rehomed as an alternative, but neither had.

Anyway a couple of years later, I was in a park and this man...well, I knew as soon as I saw his face. He passed me as I sat on a bench, then doubled back but by this time I was legging it but casually, but then he caught up with me and asked me outright where I'd got the dog from. I told him he'd belonged to my gran and I'd taken him on when she'd died. The funny thing was, the dog took no notice of him whatsoever. None! It was over 30 years ago now, so I guess it's safe to come clean;-)
 
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King Neptune

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and I'll tell you a funny to go with it.
I was an animal nurse and I took home a dog that was supposed to be destroyed. Admittedly it was done in error - one person thought another person had asked the owner if it could be rehomed as an alternative, but neither had.

Anyway a couple of years later, I was in a park and this man...well, I knew as soon as I saw his face. He passed me as I sat on a bench, then doubled back but by this time I was legging it but casually, but then he caught up with me and asked me outright where I'd got the dog from. I told him he'd belonged to my gran and I'd taken him on when she'd died. The funny thing was, the dog took no notice of him whatsoever. None! It was over 30 years ago now, so I guess it's safe to come clean;-)

Smart dog. It probably knew exactly what was going on, and wanted to to do with the prior owner in any way.
 

melindamusil

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At least in the US, most vets have a working relationship with the local animal shelters and rescue groups. If someone one doesn't want the animal anymore, the vet can put them in touch with a rescue/support group to help them rehome the animal. (Of course, that is assuming the owner is willing to let the animal go to a new home...)
 

cornflake

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I'm not a vet or anything (I really wanted to be - until I realized I couldn't deal with stuff like this, heh), but I know there are at least two on AW, so hopefully one will come along with an actual answer for you.

I've heard it varies - there's a small, private rescue around here that had a lovely cat the guy told me had lived with a guy for like 9 years, until the guy moved in with a woman who wanted new furniture and thought the cat might scratch it, so they decided to just kill the cat, but the vet apparently was like 'oh, sure, perfectly reasonable,' and then called the rescue and handed the cat off. I don't know how ethical that is as to lying to a 'client' but seems ethical in the long run, as there apparently are vets who will do it.
 

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In the US this is entirely at the discretion of the veterinarian. In theory they should make whatever decisions is in the best interests of the dog. In practice they do what they feel is most appropriate. This may include doing the convenience euthanasia, refusing to do it, referring, and/or offering other options like rehoming or asking them to defer the decision.

If they take the dog, pretend to euthanize, and do something else that is illegal (theft) because the dog is the owner's property. If the dog remains alive, they must relinquish it or have ownership legally severed by the courts.
 
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Chumplet

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Here in Ontario, pet euthanasia through a vet is VERY expensive. If a vet took my money and turned around to rehome the animal, I'm sure he or she would be in very big trouble.
 

cornflake

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In the US this is entirely at the discretion of the veterinarian. In theory they should make whatever decisions is in the best interests of the dog. In practice they do what they feel is most appropriate. This may include doing the convenience euthanasia, refusing to do it, referring, and/or offering other options like rehoming or asking them to defer the decision.

If they take the dog, pretend to euthanize, and do something else that is illegal (theft) because the dog is the owner's property. If the dog remains alive, they must relinquish it or have ownership legally severed by the courts.

I don't know for sure, but I'd wager the vets who will lie about being willing to do it and then shuffle the animal out the back door would have tried reasoning with the people first as to rehoming or relinquishing and may know there's another vet or a high-kill shelter as the next stop.

I don't know what my vet would do, but I'd kind of hope, if she'd tried other options and feared for its safety, she'd lie like a rug to save a healthy animal from an asshole.
 

WeaselFire

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Presumably the vet would refuse. Would that be the end of it? Is there an entity to report this too?
You presume too much and there are no reports.

A vet may put down an animal for many reasons and, in a shelter that lacks space, a vet will euthanize perfectly healthy animals. Anyone that wants to volunteer at a shelter should first sit through a day with a euthanasia tech.

Plus, if a vet refused, the guy with the unwanted dog would drop it off on the side of the road, take it to a shelter, find another vet or kill it themselves.

Now, what do you need to have happen for your story?

Jeff
 

veinglory

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I don't know what my vet would do, but I'd kind of hope, if she'd tried other options and feared for its safety, she'd lie like a rug to save a healthy animal from an asshole.

All sorts of things happen, but periodically people get caught doing them and it is a huge problem for them. And if the dog ends up being abused, biting people etc... there is liability.

So technically it is not a legal option and they have to work with the owner to get the dog relinquished.
 

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A vet may put down an animal for many reasons and, in a shelter that lacks space, a vet will euthanize perfectly healthy animals. Anyone that wants to volunteer at a shelter should first sit through a day with a euthanasia tech.

Yes. RSPCA does that in the UK.
Cats Protection League only euthanises sick animals (and has a lot of programmes to get people to get their cats neutered and offers free neutering quite often - as indeed does my local vet to people on lower income).



Interesting point earlier in the thread that taking money for the euthanisia and then not doing it is stealing. Wonder what the legal position would be if the vet said "oh no money needed" and didn't put the dog down.... Just one of those "I wonder" moments.
 
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cornflake

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All sorts of things happen, but periodically people get caught doing them and it is a huge problem for them. And if the dog ends up being abused, biting people etc... there is liability.

So technically it is not a legal option and they have to work with the owner to get the dog relinquished.

Might be a cat, or a horse or a gecko, heh. I realize there could be liability - though I don't know what kinds. Assuming we're talking about an animal that itself never caused trouble (just because that'd be a whole other deal I think, depending on who had it and etc.) and it was just that the vet was found to have lied and not done what she'd said and rehomed or taken the animal herself, I don't know if it's like a criminal complaint, a tort level of trouble (if the person chose to go that far) or if it's a license-endangering deal or some combination thereof.

I still hope my vet would do something instead of go along with killing a healthy animal because its person was an asshole.

I also realize there are kill shelters. I would much prefer there weren't. There's a small furry beast in my house came from one. Education about spaying and neutering helps but ... too many people are not responsible or are flat-out evil (I don't think not spaying or neutering is evil - abusing is evil).

Yes. RSPCA does that in the UK.
Cats Protection League only euthanises sick animals (and has a lot of programmes to get people to get their cats neutered and offers free neutering quite often - as indeed does my local vet to people on lower income).

Interesting point earlier in the thread that taking money for the euthanisia and then not doing it is stealing. Wonder what the legal position would be if the vet said "oh no money needed" and didn't put the dog down.... Just one of those "I wonder" moments.

That is a good point; wonder what they'd do.

You reminded me - the high-kill shelter (the city shelter/animal control) here has posters when you walk in saying there are options and help they provide to people who are going to surrender for financial or behavioural reasons. There are a whole bunch of them, addressing a number of concerns, and giving like, hotline numbers and saying to talk to the people at the desk if you were planning to surrender because you can't afford vet care or stuff. I don't know exactly what help they offer or if they have partners or whatever, but there's something.
 
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Bolero

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. Education about spaying and neutering helps but ... too many people are not responsible or are flat-out evil (I don't think not spaying or neutering is evil - abusing is evil).

Yeah - but at least some people are trying to improve this. It will never be perfect but I think it is a lot better than say 100 years ago. (Thought a semi-cheery thought was a good idea at this point :) )
 
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melindamusil

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You reminded me - the high-kill shelter (the city shelter/animal control) here has posters when you walk in saying there are options and help they provide to people who are going to surrender for financial or behavioural reasons. There are a whole bunch of them, addressing a number of concerns, and giving like, hotline numbers and saying to talk to the people at the desk if you were planning to surrender because you can't afford vet care or stuff. I don't know exactly what help they offer or if they have partners or whatever, but there's something.

A sad/funny story...
Our local (kill) shelter also really pushes people to find alternatives to surrendering their animals. Nonetheless, they regularly have people who will drop off animals on their doorstep in the middle of the night. (It's not technically legal but, if they don't know who dropped off the animal, the shelter can't do much about it.)

They outgrew their building long ago, and a few years ago, the city built them a new shelter. The city then gifted the old shelter building to the police K-9 unit. With some light remodeling (donated by a local company), the building is a great asset to the K-9 unit.

Far too often, the K-9 police will get to the building in the morning and discover a box of puppies or kittens on the doorstep, presumably left by someone who didn't get the message that this is not the animal shelter anymore.
 

WeaselFire

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I also realize there are kill shelters. I would much prefer there weren't.
So would they. Bottom line is there are too many animals. Not euthanizing is cruel. So unwanted pets get euthanized all the time. The shelters that call themselves "no-kill" are really just pawning the job off on someone else. When they are full, they simply refuse the animal. Somebody, somewhere gets the ugly job of euthanizing a perfectly healthy and happy box of kittens because there is no room for them anywhere else.

Side note: My spell checker and poor typing skills combine in this thread to change everything to "euthanize unwanted poets." Maybe an omen? :)

Jeff
 

Dollywagon

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To those who suggested if a vet doesn't take payment then it's legal to rehome - doubt it. An owner always has to sign a form for destruction saying that is what they want and authorising the vet to do it. And a vet is really sticking his neck out by going against the wishes of the owner - they are bound by ethics too and risk their jobs doing stuff like that.
But most caring vets will, not try to talk an owner out of it (what's the point they don't want the dog) but will try and encourage re-homing.
As somebody once said to me, the only difference between the 'developed' world, where we have institutions that 'appear' to protect animal welfare, and the undeveloped where strays roam the streets, is that the developed world hides it better. We don't let people see the nasty stuff.
 

cornflake

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We do have institutions that protect animals. We also have ones that don't, and too many animals for the number of people willing to protect them.

However, there are real rescues and shelters that work really hard to find homes, and help animals, and refer to other rescues or fosters when they're full. If someone brings a box of kittens to a rescue that can't take them, it's not like it's certain they'll end up dead.

There are rescues that pull from kill shelters, trying to save those animals, and move them to homes. There are lots and lots and lots of people working to help. I was just looking at a vet's webpage. It's a small practice, with only two vets, that's adopted out nearly 400 cats a few years after having decided to devote some space in their waiting room for rescues to showcase cats that need homes.

I'm not disputing that waaaay too many animals are killed, god knows, or that there isn't too little space, but I don't think it's the same as in places that have very few such organizations devoted to animal rescue.
 

Dollywagon

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My point really was that we hide them. The strays exist like everywhere else, in fact maybe more so, but the public don't have it in their faces.

I think Ireland was one of the top countries in Europe for destroying dogs - I don't know if it's still the same - but I think the figures were around 40,000 a year. I know for certain that there is now some kind of arrangement with the UK and lots of them go there for re-homing (my neighbours have an Irish Bearded Collie)
 

Trebor1415

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I think you are making presumptions about what a vet would find ethical based on your own feelings and not on the reality of how vets would face that situation.

My advice: Ask a vet.
 

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Okay. It's up to the individual vet. I worked for one that wouldn't and would jump through hoops to avoid it and then worked for one that would do it at the drop of a hat.
I'm also presuming that they can refuse to do it, because they can turn a customer away - but again down to individual choice.
 

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Unfortunately, there aren't any agencies to report this sort of thing to, as pets are considered property. What we'd usually do in a case like this is discuss relinquishment with the owner, and then try to find a good home for the animal.

If the owner declines relinquishment, the only other options would be to refuse to euthanize and send the owner on their way...or perform the euthanasia. In situations like this, if a person is set on euthanizing an animal, they'll either find a vet who'll do it or take matters into their own hands (which is the worst possible scenario for the animal).

Lying about euthanizing an animal is a breach of ethics, one that could result in serious consequences from the AVMA if found out and reported.
 

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Thanks guys. This is very interesting and eye opening. Like I said, I've only ever run fish tanks and never needed a vet.

Veterinarians are doctors, but much more than doctors who treat human beings, it seems vets are in the mode of service, because the patient is not the customer.

I think you are making presumptions about what a vet would find ethical based on your own feelings and not on the reality of how vets would face that situation.

My advice: Ask a vet.

One of the great things about the story research sub-forum here on AW is the breadth of experience represented. So many people, and so many of them willing to share what they've run across in their travels.

I asked here to get a range of responses. I can get multiple anecdotes from the willing and wonderful AWers that are much more useful to storytelling. Calling up and interviewing ten local veterinarians would not be a good use of my time.

If ever I need very specific, detailed information, I always go to the expert source.