And the girls did it in the name of Slenderman.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...ths-to-kill-friend-b99282655z1-261534171.html
Two 12 yr. olds plot to murder classmate.
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What a terrible and bizarre thing for two kids to do.
It is not often fiction gets pulled into crime situation like this. I hope the Creepypasta owners and contributing authors don't suffer too much backlash. It is very clear it is a site for short stories, not some kind of cult.
It is not often fiction gets pulled into crime situation like this. I hope the Creepypasta owners and contributing authors don't suffer too much backlash. It is very clear it is a site for short stories, not some kind of cult.
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Wisconsin is going to try them as adults. Personally, as horrendous a crime as this may seem, I think they all ( including the girl who was stabbed) need a lot of counseling and therapy. They're obviously unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
I agree, Shadow-ferret. If they hadn't fixated on that story, they would have fixated on something else. They don't know the difference between fantasy and reality. That's a serious mental issue.
Shadow_Ferret, I agree. This business of trying kids as adults often strikes me as a way to acknowledge that something horrendous has been done, but it rarely seems like a wise response, and in this instance it's truly insufficient.
I also am having the most bizarre but insistent feeling that this event would make, or could make, an amazingly wonderful plot seed for a novel. I don't like it that this keeps occurring to me, but it does.
It's so freaking spooky that these girls conjured a sufficient belief in an imaginary evil dude that they took such an action. Very very freaky to behold.
I feel sad for everyone involved in this one.
I also am having the most bizarre but insistent feeling that this event would make, or could make, an amazingly wonderful plot seed for a novel. I don't like it that this keeps occurring to me, but it does.
It's so freaking spooky that these girls conjured a sufficient belief in an imaginary evil dude that they took such an action. Very very freaky to behold.
I feel sad for everyone involved in this one.
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It's even creepier to me because isn't Slender a creation from some people on a forum several years back who were trying to just invent a new monster? It sounds awful to say this, but if it had been a long-running legend about Bigfoot or something like that, I could almost find it more understandable, but to do something like this for a monster that you can literally trace the origins to online and see the actual conversations in which it was created? That just strikes me as so beyond a lack of understanding about real and make believe.
I do think trying them as adults is not the way to go in this one.
I do think trying them as adults is not the way to go in this one.
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Yes, slenderman is like a horror version of a jackalope. It is known to have been deliberately invented but people enjoy playing along with the idea he is real.
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It reminds me a bit of the Parker-Hume case--two young girls with some kind of folie a deux?
http://murderpedia.org/female.H/h/hulme-juliet.htm
http://murderpedia.org/female.H/h/hulme-juliet.htm
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I am so glad the victim survived. I hope she has a wonderful support system at home and all the professional help she needs.
If she heals all the way, physically and mentally, she will always win the "Well, if you think that's bad, listen to what happened to me..." party game.
My god, this is a horrible story.
If she heals all the way, physically and mentally, she will always win the "Well, if you think that's bad, listen to what happened to me..." party game.
My god, this is a horrible story.
This reminds me of a blog I read - more horrifying than any horror story - about raising a psychopathic child.
It's...ugly, but a child is still a person. They have all the growing faculties of a human adult - though, obviously undeveloped.
That includes, tragically, the potential to go horribly, horribly wrong.
It's...ugly, but a child is still a person. They have all the growing faculties of a human adult - though, obviously undeveloped.
That includes, tragically, the potential to go horribly, horribly wrong.
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That's...
Disturbing. Horrifying. Insane.
Yeah, I don't see trying them as adults. They're 12. They thought they should kill someone to earn points with a fictional character. There is nothing about this case that says to me "these are people who knew what they were doing."
My kids (11,19) are very into this "slendermen" thing. Everything I've heard of the character makes me think of "The Gentlemen" from one of the scariest episodes of "Buffy The Vampie Slayer" that ever aired. But they are both, even the 11-year-old, very clear on the concept that this is an internet invention and neither a real thing nor even "real" folklore.
I can't even concieve of what could make a child believe it was real, and even if I could understand thinking Slendermen were real, to plot and carry out such an attack in hopes of pleasing him is... I have no words. I'm simply baffled by the very idea.
Disturbing. Horrifying. Insane.
Yeah, I don't see trying them as adults. They're 12. They thought they should kill someone to earn points with a fictional character. There is nothing about this case that says to me "these are people who knew what they were doing."
My kids (11,19) are very into this "slendermen" thing. Everything I've heard of the character makes me think of "The Gentlemen" from one of the scariest episodes of "Buffy The Vampie Slayer" that ever aired. But they are both, even the 11-year-old, very clear on the concept that this is an internet invention and neither a real thing nor even "real" folklore.
I can't even concieve of what could make a child believe it was real, and even if I could understand thinking Slendermen were real, to plot and carry out such an attack in hopes of pleasing him is... I have no words. I'm simply baffled by the very idea.
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I have a friend who went through Creepypasta and found just about nothing about Slenderman.
I suspect the reference of being no more than an excuse and an attempt to shift blame.
I suspect the reference of being no more than an excuse and an attempt to shift blame.
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When I worked with children in a residential setting, I worked with some sociopaths. They have no empathy at all, and the best we could do was try to teach them how to fake it so they could get along in society. That isn't really all that effective. Not when you stop a child from throwing bricks at the heads of small children, and his only explanation of why he was doing that is "I wanted to see what would happen."
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I wonder about the veracity of the Slenderman thing. As to the pairing, most serious murderous pairs have a leader and follower, and one of these girls seems to have been much more into the planning and execution of this.
Often, charging juveniles as adults is a practical decision. When tried as juveniles, the potential punishments and other possibilities can be seriously limited. Some places allow incarceration in any facility only to age 21, some allow only placement in specific 'juvenile hall' type places, etc.
Charging someone as an adult can simply open up possibilities, like long-term incarceration, other facilities, etc., even if the state doesn't end up using them.
Often, charging juveniles as adults is a practical decision. When tried as juveniles, the potential punishments and other possibilities can be seriously limited. Some places allow incarceration in any facility only to age 21, some allow only placement in specific 'juvenile hall' type places, etc.
Charging someone as an adult can simply open up possibilities, like long-term incarceration, other facilities, etc., even if the state doesn't end up using them.
I wonder about this too. I've read a few Slenderman stories and nothing comes close to the story they give about being a proxy for him. He's a monster that stalks people and makes them disappear. That's really it. There are stories of him driving people insane, but nothing about him using people to kill others.
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Also, since it hasn't been brought up before. This isn't a childs crime, this is an adult type of crime with adult type of consequences. Many places try minors as adults in attempted murder and murder cases, because young children who deliberate kill or try to kill adults and other kids were getting off lightly due to their status as minors. Some of these kids that got off lightly never killed or attempted to kill again, and some went on to repeat the very adult crime of killing someone or attempting to kill them.
I know it seems unfair, I know it seems cruel. It shouldn't be needed, but it is because the system seriously hampers the type of punishment you can give a killer/ would be killer when trying them as minors. If deliberate muder was murder periode it would be different, but it's not. And neither is attempted murder treated the same when looked at from all angles, when comparing the age of would be killers. All trying them as an adult does is open up new legal punishments.
I know it seems unfair, I know it seems cruel. It shouldn't be needed, but it is because the system seriously hampers the type of punishment you can give a killer/ would be killer when trying them as minors. If deliberate muder was murder periode it would be different, but it's not. And neither is attempted murder treated the same when looked at from all angles, when comparing the age of would be killers. All trying them as an adult does is open up new legal punishments.
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It's interesting to me how they can decide to try them as adults so quickly, just because the Texas system is different. Might surprise you to know, there's an extra procedural step before getting there.
Here, we have to hold a contested certification hearing, in which the prosecutors have to prove (1) that the child committed the crime (probable cause, not beyond a reasonable doubt), and (2) that the child presents a danger to the community, has a history worthy of them being tried as an adult, and some other factors.
In my three years as a juvie prosecutor, I've handled just one certification. A kid who committed murder and ended up getting 25 years.
12 year olds? Not in Texas, the law doesn't allow them to be tried as adults, no one under the age of 14.
Here, we have to hold a contested certification hearing, in which the prosecutors have to prove (1) that the child committed the crime (probable cause, not beyond a reasonable doubt), and (2) that the child presents a danger to the community, has a history worthy of them being tried as an adult, and some other factors.
In my three years as a juvie prosecutor, I've handled just one certification. A kid who committed murder and ended up getting 25 years.
12 year olds? Not in Texas, the law doesn't allow them to be tried as adults, no one under the age of 14.
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That's the first thing I thought about, too. Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures was based on that case. Seriously creepy movie.
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Perks and I saw her at Bouchercon last year, huge lines for her books. But all we could think about was, 'Man, she killed someone. She's a murderer. Oh, man.'
Maybe that is the problem right there; maybe it was safer to simply keep some kids warehoused and fed on a regular basis and cared for in a fundamental way a while isolated from mainstream society. It may be that the need to have all kids be integrated with the rest of their community no matter how beyond repair they are is a fundamental part of the problem. That kid really does sound like a candidate for someone who commits another mass shooting while yet again we scratch our heads and wonder what could have been done to prevent it.
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I don't know what the previous poster's org did, or with what populations or purpose, but there is decently successful theraputic work that can engage empathy.
What population, etc., are variables that matter, obviously, but if adults with significant criminal histories can be turned around, seems reasonably likely it'd be at least possible for some children, if lack of empathy is the major deficit.
No idea what's wrong with these two, besides something.
What population, etc., are variables that matter, obviously, but if adults with significant criminal histories can be turned around, seems reasonably likely it'd be at least possible for some children, if lack of empathy is the major deficit.
No idea what's wrong with these two, besides something.
Hmm. That's very interesting, and if in fact there is not the subculture around this character that was referred to in the articles I saw, then indeed something else is going on. Pretty strange nonetheless.
ETA: Apparently Slenderman is a character who shows up in various locations, not just Creepypasta, according to this Reuters article:
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Yeah, I was thinking of that case, as well.
I've seen comments on various sites along the lines of "This is why you need to monitor your kids' internet usage!" But frankly, that seems to miss the point. They didn't decide to try to kill this girl just because they read horror stories online. And what reasonable parent is going to believe that their kid is a potential killer just because they enjoy reading Creepypasta? That's not a warning sign.
Maybe there was some lack of supervision over these girls, and maybe their parents ignored some warning signs. It's hard to know right now. You'd think there'd be some warning signs. But I've seen people react to this like the girls should have been supervised like 5-year-olds. Reading stories online and going to the park with friends are not insanely risky behaviors or things that, on their own, should cause alarm.
I'm glad the victim is in stable condition.
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