How short is too short

So, what you're asking is whether an agent would request a full for a manuscript that's 60K or less, right?

I would say no. Most agents like manuscripts to be at least 70K for most genres. Subbing to smaller presses you can sometimes get away with 65K.

msza45 said:

Say you read a query you liked for an adult, non-fantasy, and would normally request pages, but the manuscript is only 40, 50, or 60K. Would you still request?

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Maybe 60k, if the query was extraordinary. Definitely nothing shorter than this, and I would wonder why the writer didn't take the time to make the novel a bit longer.

Disclaimer: I'm not an agent or an editor

A quick perusal of the Success Stories on querytracker.net reveals five different agents who offered rep for adult novels in the 50,000-59,000-word range. I'm not going to list who they are (as I suspect that would be violation of AW policy, since it's querytracker's data)--you can look them up at querytracker.

If I were an agent (I'm not), I'd probably wonder if the author had done enough worldbuilding in a 60,000 word novel. Or, alternately, if the 60,000 words were ALL worldbuilding, and no plot. A contemporary romance can probably be done in 60,000 words. We don't need to be told what an "office" is or about this strange "TV" thing the MC watches at night. But fantasy readers tend to expect to be transported to a new world, and I think the concern would be that 60,000 or less wouldn't be enough words to do that AND deliver satisfying characters and a plot.

If you haven't had beta readers go over it already, I may start there... see if they can let you know whether or not it FEELS too short, and if they think it is, what areas could be fleshed out?

I think 40K is the very edge of novella spectrum? That's a tough sell for an agent. But there are publishers you can submit to directly who accept works this short, so there is another possible avenue to consider.

It would really help to know teh exact genre. There are a areas, a very few, where 60k is acceptable. Where, in fact, 40k can be acceptable. Think The Bridges of Madison County, or for the 60k, a couple of Nicholas Sparks works.

But these are very specific areas, and in most genres, 60k is a tough, tough sell, and anything under means a book is extremely unlike to happen.

Perhaps it's perfect as it is. Only add subplots if you're convinced it needs them.

If that's the case you are going to struggle to find a big trade publisher willing to take it on, and therefore agents aren't likely to be interested. But you might well find a smaller publisher who works within this word count.

msza45 said:

The genre is a historical comedy/farce.


I'm really having a hard time figuring out if I have an underdeveloped novel or a novella. I've had a couple beta readers say it could use a little more character development in the subplots, so I'm working on that. But even then, 70k seems like a fantasy at this point, and 60k is going to be a stretch.

Thanks for ya'alls input.

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I am not a believer in adding subplots. I think one is enough, and it should grow organically from the story, rather than being separate in any way.

But, look, if yu want to, you can add 100,000 words to the story without padding at all. The way to make a novel longer is by making it wider. A novel is a tapestry, and to make it significantly longer without padding you have to add a new thread that starts in chapter one, and runs all the way through.

You add an entirely new character. You add a new villain. You add a new complication. You add a new goal. You do this by starting on page one, and essentially telling the story over, weaving in the new thread or threads.

Old Hack said:

Perhaps it's perfect as it is.
.

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There ain't no such thing as perfect as is, or as ever will be.

Sorry! NO idea why I thought it was fantasy! For comedy you might be just fine.

EDIT: I'm writing in totally different genres, but I've seen the same thing with small presses... my original word count (when I started querying) was around 100,000 words, and a lot of the small presses actually wouldn't take anything that long! Especially if you're okay with digital first or digital only, it seems like a lot of indie presses are okay with short novels or novellas.

Jamesaritchie said:

There ain't no such thing as perfect as is, or as ever will be.

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Oh, I don't know, James. Some of my words are so perfect they're positively golden.

Ha!

http://www.literaryrejections.com/word-count/

I think with 60k you're probably ok. I think 40k would probably be a tough sell. Of course, I'm not an agent so...

msza45 said:

Ugh that's depressing!

Have any agents out there represented a new author with a work shorter than 60k?

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M,

here is the thing: agents take work they think they can sell. shorter work is a much harder sell to publishers, who spend almost the same to roll out a 40K book as an 80, but then have a customer base wanting a half-price book, if any at all, because it feels like a "half-book."


that said, JAR also has a valid point; if it was an actual novel.....I'd wonder why you had so little to say that you couldn't hit say 70K. Maybe you have a novella, and will have to decide to hold, expand, or electronically pub it.

It may be too short for an agent to take it on, but it costs time only to query these days. Find those looking for humor or memoir and give them a try.

Boosting already existing subplots may help.

Word counts are guidelines. Write the story the way it demands to be written.

msza45 said:

Yeah, it isn't necessarily that I can't find enough things to say, it's more that I can't find enough funny things to say! I keep trimming the parts that dont work from a comedy standpoint, and as a result can never push much further than the lower 40ks.

Hitchhiker's Guide is 46k, and that has given me some comfort. I've thought about, when I get around to querying, including the word count of that as a comparison, but Im not sure if that would go over well.

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I wouldn't. It just calls attention to the length, and, depending on how it was done, that kind of comparison might come across as you saying you're as good as Douglas Adams which could be a turn off to some agents.

msza45 said:

Hitchhiker's Guide is 46k, and that has given me some comfort. I've thought about, when I get around to querying, including the word count of that as a comparison, but Im not sure if that would go over well.

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Hitchhiker's guide was a radio show first and a long time ago (in publishing terms)

msza45 said:

Yeah, it isn't necessarily that I can't find enough things to say, it's more that I can't find enough funny things to say! I keep trimming the parts that dont work from a comedy standpoint, and as a result can never push much further than the lower 40ks.

Hitchhiker's Guide is 46k, and that has given me some comfort. I've thought about, when I get around to querying, including the word count of that as a comparison, but Im not sure if that would go over well.

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HH is what, 50 years old? I wouldn't take comfort from what was ok when I was an ovum....

That said, do you want or need to cull anything not comedy? Even an actual stand-up routine isn't one joke after another, there's a lot of building in most routines in between. Pay attention, sometimes there's small jokes along the way but the bigger jokes may take five, ten, even fifteen minutes of build before you get the punchline.

Reading the above makes me think of say Christopher Moore. he crosses genres. he writes comedy. There is lots in between that is NOT comedy. And here's a little fact: I know the guy is well-read, and liked, and I liked parts of his books. Other parts made me fucking nuts. Why? Because the comedy was so overdone and self-conscious I could practically SEE him kicking back in his chair, rubbing his chin, and smirking like a self-satisfied ass.

To be fair I have no idea if any of that even remotely describes Moore, but there were times when the comedy felt way out of balance and way too damn much. So......maybe you're over-stripping.

Food for thought, anyway.

Try to aim for comparable titles five years old or less.

I feel for you. My mystery/suspense is not a cozy, and it's sitting at 64K at the moment. I know I need to make it longer, but I don't want to add a subplot or a second POV, mostly because I can't find enough info on the policing/detective/law side of things. I don't want to get my facts wrong, and don't want to skim over them either.

I feel your pain. I'm querying a 65K fantasy and I worry the word count might be working against me. It is not a matter of "not having enough to say" or "not taking the time" to make it longer. In my case, it's an extremely limited setting and cast which means hardly any fantasy-style world building at all. The story just is what it is, which is 65K. And none of my betas thought it felt too short.

We'll see what happens. I'll let you know if I get a request

Looks like it will be tough with that few words and not wanting to consider adding to it. Could it be shortened into a longgggg short story?