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apgambrell
05-04-2014, 07:38 PM
I was wondering if police officers have to go to continuing education courses as a part of their job. I know teachers have to go for in-service days through the year and I wonder if the police have to do so as well to keep current on new developments in law enforcement etc.

If so, how frequently?

King Neptune
05-04-2014, 09:36 PM
There such requirements in some places.
https://www.google.com/#q=police+continuing+education+requirements
only 85,000,000 results

apgambrell
05-04-2014, 09:54 PM
So it wouldn't be weird for my main female lead to be called away from such a training to go investigate a murder? This happens in the beginning of my book and I want to make sure it is accurate.

cmhbob
05-04-2014, 10:11 PM
Is she the only homicide investigator in the department? If so, then no, it wouldn't be weird. But if there are several detectives, she'd be off the duty roster, especially if she had to travel any significant distance for her training.

apgambrell
05-04-2014, 10:28 PM
The department is small (only two detectives and a handful of patrol officers).

frimble3
05-05-2014, 12:12 AM
And this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto-airport-s-bomb-sniffing-dog-absent-for-air-india-flight-1.692591 is why everybody shouldn't go for training at the same time.

cmhbob
05-05-2014, 12:45 AM
Thinking as an administrator:
Do I really want to waste the money I've put into the training session? What's it going to cost to get her back early? If she's flying, then there's really no point in bringing her back early. It'd cost extra money to change the ticket, plus time to the airport, and time to pick her up, etc.

If she's more than a couple of hours away, I'd have to think most departments would muddle through on their own, and maybe bring in the Sheriff's Department, especially if they have their own detectives. Remember that in most states, the county Sheriff is the senior law enforcement officer in the county, and has jurisdiction everywhere in the county.

Mr Flibble
05-05-2014, 01:30 AM
If she's more than a couple of hours away, I'd have to think most departments would muddle through on their own

From an admin point of view that probably makes sense

From the POV of the victim's family that's quietly horrifying.

King Neptune
05-05-2014, 03:04 AM
And this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto-airport-s-bomb-sniffing-dog-absent-for-air-india-flight-1.692591 is why everybody shouldn't go for training at the same time.

My criminal side loves it when a whole city department goes off for training at the same time. :)

frimble3
05-05-2014, 03:21 AM
My criminal side loves it when a whole city department goes foff for training at the same time. :)
Not 'city department'. It was nation-wide. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=5f1cc7d5-145c-4f56-bc60-9db08dc78d49
:Wha:

King Neptune
05-05-2014, 03:49 AM
Not 'city department'. It was nation-wide. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=5f1cc7d5-145c-4f56-bc60-9db08dc78d49
:Wha:

Yes, and that is fine, if you are planting bombs, but if your are robbing banks, then a city without police would be convenient, wouldn't it?

frimble3
05-05-2014, 06:04 AM
Yes, and that is fine, if you are planting bombs, but if your are robbing banks, then a city without police would be convenient, wouldn't it?
Especially if the bank robbers know in advance when the training course is going to be held.
It occurs to me that it wouldn't be just bank robbers: imagine the chaos if the local teenagers get wind of the coming lawlessness. Of course, they're all texting each other, they'd only need an hour to organize big trash-the-house parties.
I can see the bank robbers, with their careful plans for robbing all the banks in town at once, get caught up in a little crime wave, in which the breakdown of local law'n'order leads to total chaos, with car thieves, drunk drivers, embezzlers and juvenile delinquents all interfering with their plans.

apgambrell
05-05-2014, 06:36 AM
Thinking as an administrator:
Do I really want to waste the money I've put into the training session? What's it going to cost to get her back early? If she's flying, then there's really no point in bringing her back early. It'd cost extra money to change the ticket, plus time to the airport, and time to pick her up, etc.

If she's more than a couple of hours away, I'd have to think most departments would muddle through on their own, and maybe bring in the Sheriff's Department, especially if they have their own detectives. Remember that in most states, the county Sheriff is the senior law enforcement officer in the county, and has jurisdiction everywhere in the county.

No, she's just an hour away and she drove herself to the training. She's not traveling very far.

King Neptune
05-05-2014, 03:46 PM
Especially if the bank robbers know in advance when the training course is going to be held.
It occurs to me that it wouldn't be just bank robbers: imagine the chaos if the local teenagers get wind of the coming lawlessness. Of course, they're all texting each other, they'd only need an hour to organize big trash-the-house parties.
I can see the bank robbers, with their careful plans for robbing all the banks in town at once, get caught up in a little crime wave, in which the breakdown of local law'n'order leads to total chaos, with car thieves, drunk drivers, embezzlers and juvenile delinquents all interfering with their plans.

But it would be better than being chased from before you even get out of the bank. It would even be a good idea to set up some courses as a way to clear the way, and that could be done.

Hendo
05-05-2014, 05:56 PM
Yes and no. Some departments have education requirements for promotions such as a Master's degree in Criminal Justice. But that is something done in their own time. I think you'd be better off with actual job related training because while usually not mandatory, it's extremely common. If you look up the course catalog(I think they're online) at a NJ police academy you'll see hundreds of different courses that are designed for police officers. I'm not talking about math and science classes but there are tons of things an officer can choose from. Some courses are pretty standard and almost everyone takes them eventually ie: Alcotest device usage. Then there are courses like defensive driving, street tactics, interviewing, crime scene investigation etc etc. If it's something an officer does, odds are there is a course about it that they can take. Some cost money, some are free and most are only a day or two long with some stretching to a week. To quote an officer I used to work with, "You're never done training."

Hendo
05-05-2014, 06:05 PM
My criminal side loves it when a whole city department goes off for training at the same time. :)

Something like this would never happen. Training is set up so that towns are still covered. I can't think of any class that would be so pressing that an entire department needed to go at the same time. If someone picks up a phone, an officer is always going to show up when called upon. There is also a great deal of overlap when it comes to law enforcement in the form of mutual aid. If the officers in one department are all tied up they'll get assistance from a neighboring department.

King Neptune
05-05-2014, 06:08 PM
Something like this would never happen. Training is set up so that towns are still covered. I can't think of any class that would be so pressing that an entire department needed to go at the same time. If someone picks up a phone, an officer is always going to show up when called upon. There is also a great deal of overlap when it comes to law enforcement in the form of mutual aid. If the officers in one department are all tied up they'll get assistance from a neighboring department.

We can set up a union meeting for the same day. Maybe leave two officers to cover a population of fifty thousand. Then get them out of action with an automobile accident (staged).

cmhbob
05-05-2014, 09:56 PM
If someone picks up a phone, an officer is always going to show up when called upon. There is also a great deal of overlap when it comes to law enforcement in the form of mutual aid. If the officers in one department are all tied up they'll get assistance from a neighboring department.
That's a nice theory, but the reality is much more rough. How long can you wait for an officer? In my town here in Green Country, a city of about 34,000, there are usually about 8 city officers on duty at any one time, plus a canine unit. Get 2 domestic calls, and suddenly you're down to 4 officers. Get a traffic stop with drugs, and you're down to 2. There are only about half a dozen sheriff's deputies to patrol the country as well. Yeah, you'll bet an officer. At some point. Probably. At one time, my home county in SE Ohio had 2 deputies per shift. 2. To cover a county of 64,000 people and 640 square miles.

Hendo
05-06-2014, 08:22 PM
We can set up a union meeting for the same day. Maybe leave two officers to cover a population of fifty thousand. Then get them out of action with an automobile accident (staged).

We had PBA meetings once a month. But they were in town and while the officers might all be there it doesn't mean they're all off duty. Big MV accident that needs multiple guys? "Nope. Sorry, I'm sitting here in my uniform but I really want to vote on our new overtime policy!" Guys go to the meetings and leave if/when needed for a call. For larger multi jurisdiction union meetings that are 20 miles away? Who is going to use a vacation or personal day to go to one of those? Not to mention our brass would never approve everyone going to it if it meant leaving the town without coverage. Ok though... on the off shot that everyone from a shift takes off to go to the meeting... then they'd have other officers fill that shift. There's always someone willing to work overtime and if not then guys get ordered in. And truth be told... and this is all personal opinion but if there is any department policing a CITY of 50,000 that's going to let their entire police force leave to attend a meeting of any type at the same time.... well... the brass in that dpt is on crack. :)


That's a nice theory, but the reality is much more rough. How long can you wait for an officer? In my town here in Green Country, a city of about 34,000, there are usually about 8 city officers on duty at any one time, plus a canine unit. Get 2 domestic calls, and suddenly you're down to 4 officers. Get a traffic stop with drugs, and you're down to 2. There are only about half a dozen sheriff's deputies to patrol the country as well. Yeah, you'll bet an officer. At some point. Probably. At one time, my home county in SE Ohio had 2 deputies per shift. 2. To cover a county of 64,000 people and 640 square miles.

Eh that's how it is in my state. You guys don't use mutual aid? Or just no local departments? I have friends who joke about being in neighboring towns more than their own. And yes, people may wait at times. But with prioritization and mutual aid someone will eventually show. However I will admit... 2 deputies per 640sq miles and 64k people is a bit ridiculous. I think my entire state would suffer from an anxiety attack at the thought of such little police coverage. *and just to note, this is different than pulling an entire department off duty for a meeting*

cmhbob
05-07-2014, 02:03 AM
Hendo, I assume they have mutual aid agreements down here, but I'm no longer in LE.

Keep in mind this is Oklahoma. Long distances between small towns. There are something like almost 500 agencies in the state, but some of those are likely 2-3 officer shops. In this county, we've got maybe 15 towns or cities, and only about 1/4 of those have their own departments. There's an OHP troop, and Cherokee Nation Marshals, but everyone has their own jurisdiction to cover too.

It was a similar deal in Ohio. This was in the late 80s, and there was just no money. There were only 3 local agencies, plus the Highway Patrol, but even they were limited to 2-4 troopers covering the county. They finally passed a specially-designated sales tax that went just to Sheriff's Office operations, and had a bunch of deputies in the late 90s, but when recession hit after the turn of the century, the SO had money problems just like everyone else.

Hendo
05-07-2014, 04:50 AM
Gotcha. A different world and it's understandable. I'm in NJ where everything is on top of itself and probably 90%+ of the towns have their own departments. Then on top of that are the troopers, limited county police and county sheriff departments. But even in OK, still going to get an officer eventually tho unless they blow off calls. I'd imagine for an active shooter or something big people would break off from lesser stuff lol
I remember when I dispatched we were busy and sent a guy to look at a street sign for the resident complainer. It wasn't immediate so him thinking we never went, complained to the town and then the Chief had to appear before the council and explain what happened. Yea... I know it's a real eye roller.