Oklahoma Botches Execution

rugcat

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In Oklahoma, two death row inmates scheduled for execution filed an appeal protesting the secrecy about where the lethal drugs were obtained. Lawyers claimed without knowledge of where the drugs came from it was impossible to determine whether they were properly vetted and would produce the desired result without undue pain and suffering.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court agreed and issued a stay of execution pending resolution of the legal question. One Oklahoma lawmaker immediately called for the impeachment of all five justices, and the governor announced she would defy the Supreme Court decision and would go ahead with the executions no matter what they said.

In order to avoid a constitutional crisis the court reversed itself and allow the executions to go forward.

Unfortunately, the first execution was terribly botched. The subject remained conscious and stated that something was wrong. After some time, the doctor ascertained that the line into a vein was faulty and the warden ordered the line removed and the prisoner taken into the hospital. On the way there he suffered a massive heart attack and died. The second scheduled execution was then postponed.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/oklahoma-executions.html?_r=0&referrer=
 
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raburrell

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Since I already godwinned my own facebook post on the subject...

Experimenting with ways to execute prisoners is nothing short of Nazi territory. This was barbaric and disgusting.
 

veinglory

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I think it is mainly not being able to get medical professionals to take part. FWIW the technique would work fine if used by people who knew what they were doing.
 

Pyekett

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I cannot say I fault the physicians who refuse to be involved. That isn't somewhere I'd care to be, but the outcome (as veinglory noted) does not surprise me.
 

raburrell

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Even when a lethal injection goes 'right', the drugs involved mainly give the appearance of a painless death for those viewing it, and likely do not mask the pain caused by the first two for the condemned. Something like 3% of all executions are botched anyway, whether a doctor is involved or not. (And yes, I completely understand why the medical community isn't interested in being part of executions).

This is still a new low IMO.
 

cmhbob

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If we're going to continue to execute people, nitrogen asphyxiation is the way to go. No special tools needed. No special training. No extreme expenses.

That said, if we haven't executed an innocent person in modern times (and I'm not sure we haven't), we're going to. Given the number of people who have been wrongfully convicted (and released from death row), we need to abolish the death penalty.

If we wrongfully imprison someone for 20 years, we can at least let them out and throw money at them. If we wrongfully execute someone, what do we do then?
 

Pyekett

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Yeah. I do not disagree with you, either, raburrell.

It's a sublime illustration of the meaning of "appalling."
 

CrastersBabies

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Since I already godwinned my own facebook post on the subject...

Experimenting with ways to execute prisoners is nothing short of Nazi territory. This was barbaric and disgusting.

I couldn't agree more. Oklahoma, wtf?
 

Haggis

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Geebus H! There's a military term that works real well here. FUBAR.

If anyone wonders how a conservative (which I am) can oppose the death penalty, they can start here. And I've got lots more to talk to them about if that's not enough.
 

rugcat

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One of the things that disturbs me about this story is the fact that the governor simply decided to ignore the order of the state Supreme Court.

This wasn't a matter of grave conscience or a deeply held belief. Either of those would be understandable if still problematical. But this wasn't a reversal, it was simply a stay of execution.

This is a case where the justices decided there was a valid legal argument that needed to be settled before putting people to death. The governor, by going ahead, basically said I disagree and I'm going to ignore the court order so that I can put these people to death tonight – not tomorrow, not next week, but right now, tonight.

It's so important to me that they die immediately that I'm going to ignore my own state's Supreme Court ruling.
 

Haggis

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What disturbs me worse, if true, is that the state Supreme Court apparently backed off to avoid the Constitutional Crisis.

It's not like those guys were going anywhere. WTF?
 

cornflake

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I think it is mainly not being able to get medical professionals to take part. FWIW the technique would work fine if used by people who knew what they were doing.

Are you insulting the particular doctors involved? Seems like they could simply get another.
 

emax100

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Geebus H! There's a military term that works real well here. FUBAR.

If anyone wonders how a conservative (which I am) can oppose the death penalty, they can start here. And I've got lots more to talk to them about if that's not enough.


Here is an interesting video showing from a conservative, or at least fiscal conservative, viewpoint on why the death penalty is problematic, in addition to the problem of whether or not you make a mistake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oibQNI0PBkA&list=UUzIjg5vIfBGcdyLWu6lhXxw

Penn and Teller also skewer it real nicely here too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGAMh6RuTRs

On the flip side, when you have shit like this:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/btk/index_1.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/jessica_lunsford/1_index.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/shanda_sharer/1.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/suzanne_basso/index.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/theresa_cross/index.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/likens/1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jesse_Dirkhising

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oba_Chandler


And then you understand see why popular support for the death penalty is not going away anytime soon. If the above people were subject to the type of death penalty experiments outlined in this thread, well I am not sure I would give two fucks.
 
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nighttimer

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Compassion and Mercy For Those That Have Neither?

It certainly appears like Mr. Lockett suffered a rather painful and horrible end.

So did Stephanie Neiman.


PERRY - Three men accused of killing one of four people kidnapped during an aborted robbery attempt were charged Monday with 14 felony counts apiece.

Bond was denied for the three, who face charges of first-degree murder, rape, forcible sodomy, kidnapping, assault and battery, burglary and robbery.

Clayton Derrell Lockett, 23, and Alfonzo Laron Veasey Lockett, 17, both of Ponca City, and Shawn C. Mathis, 26, of Enid, also were charged with conspiracy to commit the crimes. The Locketts are cousins.

George Lockett Sr., Alfonzo Lockett's father, said his son and his nephew told him that Clayton Lockett shot and killed Stephanie Michelle Neiman, 18, who graduated last month from Perry High School. They also told him that Clayton Lockett forced the two others to take part in the crimes, Lockett told The Oklahoman .

George Lockett said Clayton Lockett told him "Alfonzo had no involvement in it and that he did everything."

George Lockett, who said he allowed Clayton Lockett to live with him after the nephew's release from prison in September, said Alfonzo Lockett made a bad decision in leaving with his older cousin.

Authorities said the crime spree started when Clayton Lockett drove the younger Lockett and Mathis to the Perry home of Bobby Lee Bornt, 23. Bornt owed Clayton Lockett money.

Bornt was tied up and beaten, authorities said. His 9-month-old son was in the house.

During the assault, Neiman and an 18-year-old friend stopped by Bornt's house, authorities said.

"It was bad timing," Perry police Lt. David Farrow said.

Neiman's female friend told authorities she was pulled into the house and hit in the face with a shotgun. With a gun at her head, she was forced to call Neiman inside, police were told.

Neiman also was hit with the shotgun and suffered a cut near her left eye, police were told.

"That was when the stuff really started getting out of hand," George Lockett said.

The young women were bound with duct tape. Neiman's friend was raped by all three men, authorities said.

Bornt and his son and the two women then were driven to rural Kay County, police said. Clayton Lockett told the captives he was going to kill them all, the surviving victims said.

Clayton Lockett told Neiman to get out of her pickup, and he shot her twice when she failed to give him her keys and the alarm code for the pickup, police were told.

Mathis told police he dug a grave for Neiman and buried her with Alfonzo Lockett's help.

The rape victim and Bornt told police they and Bornt's son then were brought back to Bornt's home.

The three men left in Bornt's pickup. The car Clayton Lockett drove to Perry apparently was stolen and was impounded by police when officers spotted it parked outside Bornt's duplex.

Jasper Lockett, 16, said his brother Alfonzo told him that Clayton Lockett threatened to kill him and Mathis if they went to police.

Police said Mathis and Alfonzo Lockett admitted they took part in the assault on Bornt and helped tie up the two women and drive them to rural Kay County.

Alfonzo Lockett showed authorities where Neiman was buried. Her mouth still was bound with duct tape, according to court records.
Mr. Clayton Lockett was not a nice man. In fact, it might be fair to say he's a bit of an evil demon. The other gentleman scheduled for the hot shot, Charles Warner is actually even more so.

Death row inmate Charles Frederick Warner was convicted Monday night of raping and murdering his live-in girlfriend's 11-month-old baby in 1997.


This was the second time an Oklahoma County District Court jury has handed down a guilty verdict against Warner for first-degree murder and first-degree rape in the Aug. 22, 1997, death of Adriana Waller.

After his first trial, Warner was sentenced to die by lethal injection for the slaying. He also received a 999-year prison sentence for the rape conviction. Later, he won an appeal.

This time, jurors recommended a 75-year sentence on the rape conviction

Warner, who turned 36 Friday, also is charged in Oklahoma County in a separate case with abusing and raping a 5-year-old girl. He is accused of beating the girl with an extension cord and belt. Those charges are pending.

Medical testimony in his second trial, which began June 16, revealed that Adriana was violently shaken and her skull was fractured in two places.

Her jaw and three of her ribs were broken. Her lungs and her spleen were bruised and her liver was lacerated, according to testimony. The baby's brain was swollen and hemorrhaging was discovered in her eyes and around her brain.

Assistant District Attorneys Lou Keel and Robert Swartz said Warner was with the baby when she was injured.

The baby's mother, Shonda Waller, was at the grocery store, they said.

Assistant Public Defenders Tamra Spradlin and Gina Walker tried to prove Warner did not kill the baby.

They tried to show jurors that police and prosecutors had manipulated the evidence and the witnesses told inconsistent and embellished testimony.

Defense attorneys accused the prosecutors of building a case on faulty assumptions.

In closing arguments, Swartz said, "The defendant says: It wasn't me. The evidence says it was. This was not an accident.

Spradlin told jurors in her closing argument: "He is not guilty. He did not kill Adriana Waller and he did not commit any anal rape of this baby.

Spradlin said Warner drove a truck and didn't drink, smoke or take drugs.

The defense attorney said he was a father who took care of his 2-year-old biological daughter and put alphabet letters on the refrigerator for his children.

Keel told jurors the defendant admitted to police he injured the baby.

"'You already got me,'" Keel said Warner told police in a videotape interview Aug. 22, 1997. "Those were his words the same day. Those were the words that came out of this defendant's mouth.
Before I wring my hands in concern or squirt a single tear for Clayton Lockett and Charles Warner over their possibly suffering a grisly, painful and lingering death, I'm going to ask two questions and only two: What did they do to get themselves strapped to a gurney and do they deserve to die for it?


  • Stephanie Neiman, 19: terrorized, beaten, raped, shot and buried alive in a grave with her mouth still covered with duct tape.
  • Adriana Walker, 11 months old: shaken, skull fractured in two places, jaw and ribs broken, lungs and spleen bruised and lungs lacerated, brain swollen, hemorrhaging found in her eyes and around the brain, anally raped.
I am going to go out on a limb here and declare Mr. Walker and Mr. Lockett deserve everything they got and worse. If there were a way to kill them twice, they should be.

Such a harsh judgment may muddy up my reputation as a good liberal, but I'll take the hit.

There are prisoners more deserving of compassion and mercy than scum like this.


THE STATEMENT OF SUSIE AND STEVE NEIMAN
God blessed us with our precious daughter, Stephanie for 19 years. Stephanie loved children.

She worked in Vacation Bible School and always helped with our Church nativity scenes. She was the joy of our life. We are thankful this day has finally arrived and justice will finally be served.

Susie and Steve Neiman, 4-29-14
 
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Albedo

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And then you understand see why popular support for the death penalty is not going away anytime soon. If the above people were subject to the type of death penalty experiments outlined in this thread, well I am not sure I would give two fucks.

It's not like every other country in the Western world hasn't had heinous murders. And yet every other country in the Western world has abolished the death penalty. I'm not sure it is purely the caliber of the crimes that keeps American support for capital punishment anomalously high compared to culturally similar countries.

As to the question of doctors participating in executions, primum non nocere. Seems pretty goddamn unambiguous to me.
 

emax100

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It's not like every other country in the Western world hasn't had heinous murders. And yet every other country in the Western world has abolished the death penalty. I'm not sure it is purely the caliber of the crimes that keeps American support for capital punishment anomalously high compared to culturally similar countries.

As to the question of doctors participating in executions, primum non nocere. Seems pretty goddamn unambiguous to me.
True, it is also the American interpretation on how to deal with these types of crimes. Americans have had a unique belief on how to deal with the very worst of society since before we even became a nation. It is true that a lot of it is Puritan type mentalities and while it would be nice to see Americans in places like Texas and Oklahoma and Florida move past this, old habits die hard when it comes to the types of people that are most commonly considered for the death penalty.
 

kuwisdelu

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1. If we have to have a death penalty (which I don't think we do), I'm actually okay with experimenting with new drugs to perform it, provided they're administered with fully 100% no-jokes-about-it informed consent.

2. This clearly wasn't, and I condemn it.

3. Compassion has nothing to do with it. We need to care how our government treats its prisoners. I don't care how horrible the crime. Cruel and unusual punishment is not okay and it's unconstitutional, period. Fucking around with executions with sloppy and ill-handled experiments is cruel and unusual.
 
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ShaunHorton

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If we're going to continue to execute people, nitrogen asphyxiation is the way to go. No special tools needed. No special training. No extreme expenses.

This. If a new chemical cocktail hasn't been tested and known to do the job quickly and humanely, it's not like there aren't other cheap and workable alternatives.
 

emax100

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1. If we have to have a death penalty (which I don't think we do), I'm actually okay with experimenting with new drugs to perform it, provided they're administered with fully 100% no-jokes-about-it informed consent.

2. This clearly wasn't, and I condemn it.

3. Compassion has nothing to do with it. We need to care how our government treats its prisoners. I don't care how horrible the crime. Cruel and unusual punishment is not okay and it's unconstitutional, period. Fucking around with executions with sloppy and ill-handled experiments is cruel and unusual.

I agree with you 100 % that messing with executions like this is cruel and unusual punishment and should be immediately outlawed on a Constitutional basis. It is just that a. There's some elements of society where there's only so much I can do to get myself to care when it does happen to them. Granted, I probably should care more then I periodically am able to because a truly free and civilized society must afford fundamental rights to those accused of even the most debased crimes. b. It will be very hard to wean Texans, Oklahomans and Floridans off this way of thinking when they have these elements of society to deal with and a deeply conditioned mentality for dealing with them.
 

rugcat

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nighttimer; said:
There are prisoners more deserving of compassion and mercy than scum like this.
Surely there are, but they get executed just the same.

This really isn't about these particular individuals or how awful they are. It's about how the death penalty is employed, and how a state can apparently go ahead with executions no matter what the courts say.

I personally have no ethical qualms about the death penalty. I believe certain people do indeed deserve to die. The reason I'm against the death penalty is that it is unfairly and arbitrarily applied, and has documented cases of innocent people being executed.

But again, that's irrelevant in this case. You should take a good look at the incredible screwup that the prison caused, and the unbelievable hubris of a governor overruling the state Supreme Court.

I think you might feel a bit differently if the execution was put on temporary hold because new evidence showed the possibility of innocence, and the governor of the state ignored the stay of execution and demanded the prisoner go to death immediately.

We are a society of law, and if we can simply ignore the law because a particular person's crime is excessively heinous, that's really not a good thing.
 

kuwisdelu

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It is just that a. There's some elements of society where there's only so much I can do to get myself to care when it does happen to them.

It's not really that I think such people don't deserve death.

It's that I don't think any of us have the right to deal it out.
 

emax100

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Surely there are, but they get executed just the same.

This really isn't about these particular individuals or how awful they are. It's about how the death penalty is employed, and how a state can apparently go ahead with executions no matter what the courts say.

I personally have no ethical qualms about the death penalty. I believe certain people do indeed deserve to die. The reason I'm against the death penalty is that it is unfairly and arbitrarily applied, and has documented cases of innocent people being executed.

But again, that's irrelevant in this case. You should take a good look at the incredible screwup that the prison caused, and the unbelievable hubris of a governor overruling the state Supreme Court.

I think you might feel a bit differently if the execution was put on temporary hold because new evidence showed the possibility of innocence, and the governor of the state ignored the stay of execution and demanded the prisoner go to death immediately.

We are a society of law, and if we can simply ignore the law because a particular person's crime is excessively heinous, that's really not a good thing.

Something else I was wondering given that you have recognized on some level why some feel there is a need for the death penalty: if states like Texas, Oklahoma and Florida have the death penalty and most, if not all, other states have a sort of life without parole option, then would that negate the need for federal hate crime legislation or would that still be necessary? I thought, for example, that Texas came under national heat for not having hate crime laws on top of the death penalty after the murder of James Byrd Jr even though two of that man's killers got the death penalty and the third (who testified that he tried to stop the other two) got life without possibility of parole.
 

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Since this was not intended, fate appears to have taken a hand.
 

cornflake

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It certainly appears like Mr. Lockett suffered a rather painful and horrible end.

So did Stephanie Neiman.


Mr. Clayton Lockett was not a nice man. In fact, it might be fair to say he's a bit of an evil demon. The other gentleman scheduled for the hot shot, Charles Warner is actually even more so.

Before I wring my hands in concern or squirt a single tear for Clayton Lockett and Charles Warner over their possibly suffering a grisly, painful and lingering death, I'm going to ask two questions and only two: What did they do to get themselves strapped to a gurney and do they deserve to die for it?


  • Stephanie Neiman, 19: terrorized, beaten, raped, shot and buried alive in a grave with her mouth still covered with duct tape.
  • Adriana Walker, 11 months old: shaken, skull fractured in two places, jaw and ribs broken, lungs and spleen bruised and lungs lacerated, brain swollen, hemorrhaging found in her eyes and around the brain, anally raped.
I am going to go out on a limb here and declare Mr. Walker and Mr. Lockett deserve everything they got and worse. If there were a way to kill them twice, they should be.

Such a harsh judgment may muddy up my reputation as a good liberal, but I'll take the hit.

There are prisoners more deserving of compassion and mercy than scum like this.

They committed crimes in pretty much the only 'civilized, first-world' country on this planet that executes people as a matter of course.

No.
 

nighttimer

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Surely there are, but they get executed just the same.

This really isn't about these particular individuals or how awful they are. It's about how the death penalty is employed, and how a state can apparently go ahead with executions no matter what the courts say.

I share your concern for the Oklahoma governor's deliberate circumvention of the rule of law, rugcat. That's fucked up, but what these two did was more fucked up.

rugcat said:
I personally have no ethical qualms about the death penalty. I believe certain people do indeed deserve to die. The reason I'm against the death penalty is that it is unfairly and arbitrarily applied, and has documented cases of innocent people being executed.

That is my biggest ethical qualm about the death penalty. That someone not guilty of the crime they are being executed for is the ultimate nightmare scenario and a reason why it takes so long and laborious a process to put someone to death in the U.S. No one should be executed until their guilt is established beyond a reasonable doubt.

rugcat said:
But again, that's irrelevant in this case. You should take a good look at the incredible screwup that the prison caused, and the unbelievable hubris of a governor overruling the state Supreme Court.

I think you might feel a bit differently if the execution was put on temporary hold because new evidence showed the possibility of innocence, and the governor of the state ignored the stay of execution and demanded the prisoner go to death immediately.

I believe in the cases of Lockett and Warner that threshold has been achieved.

rugcat said:
We are a society of law, and if we can simply ignore the law because a particular person's crime is excessively heinous, that's really not a good thing.

No, it's not. But allowing these two to continue to draw breath is much worse.

They committed crimes in pretty much the only 'civilized, first-world' country on this planet that executes people as a matter of course.

No.

Yes.

It's not a poll. It's not a referendum.

When there are no more criminals like Lockett and Warner raping and torturing and murdering terrified teenagers and helpless infants there will be no more need to execute them.

That day is not today and they both lived, lusted and laughed far, far longer than their victims.

Good-bye to both of them and good riddance.