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jallenecs
04-28-2014, 05:51 PM
If a church burns down, is the ground it stood on still considered to be hallowed? What if what's built in its place isn't another church? What if it's a monument to the dead who were killed in the fire, is the ground still hallowed?

Helix
04-28-2014, 05:56 PM
What denomination? That might affect the answer.

jallenecs
04-28-2014, 06:02 PM
What denomination? That might affect the answer.

Church of England.

King Neptune
04-28-2014, 06:15 PM
I believe that the ground would be considered to be consecrated, as the church was. There is a ritual for deconsecrating churches, and I believe that would be done for the site before it would be sold.

jallenecs
04-28-2014, 06:17 PM
I believe that the ground would be considered to be consecrated, as the church was. There is a ritual for deconsecrating churches, and I believe that would be done for the site before it would be sold.

Okay, thanks!

ironmikezero
04-28-2014, 10:21 PM
Aside from denomination, the civil jurisdiction will matter as well. Think in terms of zoning, approved usage, and tax status. Change any of that and you've got secular as well as spiritual issues on the table.

RhodaD'Ettore
04-28-2014, 10:27 PM
Good points made about secular. For the "hallow ground" ... it is consecrated by being blessed by (im catholic) a priest. So, IMO, the ground could never be "unblessed".... unless you wanted it that way... you might be able to get some devil worshippers to hold rituals which would then desecrate it. That is some weird stuff I would do lol

veinglory
04-28-2014, 10:33 PM
Indeed. If the site was going to stand empty or used in a non-sacred way--it would be deconsecrated.

King Neptune
04-28-2014, 11:49 PM
Whether land use regulations would come into play would depend on where and when. In Massachusetts the courts have determined tha religious uses can and usually do trump local regulations. In other places religious uses are not granted more rights.

Mr Flibble
04-29-2014, 01:20 AM
The thing is, it's not just CofE here, there's secular laws to consider as well.


I don't know if it helps but the CofE has this to say


Q. What is consecrated land? Is the owner of consecrated land restricted in what can be done with it? Can land be de-consecrated?
A. Consecrated land is land which has been consecrated for use for sacred purposes. It is subject to the jurisdiction of the Chancellor of the diocese in which it is situated. This means, in particular, that an application for a faculty (permission) to do anything to or on consecrated land must be made to the Chancellor through the diocesan registrar, the solicitor appointed to act for the relevant diocese and its bishop. The legal effects of consecration may be removed from land only by a statutory procedure, normally that prescribed by the Pastoral Measure 1983.

This (http://www.lambchambers.co.uk/news-learning/articles/consecrated-burial-grounds-obstacle-developers-re-radcliffe-infirmary-burial) gives an idea of what goes on in a case for desconsecrating a burial ground for instance.

Note also this (http://www.churchofengland.org/media/55335/appendices.doc):
Note: The law does not provide for 'deconsecration' e.g. when a church is declared closed the Pastoral Measure refers to removing the 'legal effects of consecration': the spiritual effects of consecration cannot be removed by legal process.)


So it needs to be done legally rather than spiritually (or as well as), and whether you get permission prolly depend son how much the church wants to keep it.

But it is often done -- there's a load of old chapels/churches that have been...repurposed around here.

Basically in the first instance, contact the Bishop's office.

King Neptune
04-29-2014, 02:32 AM
The thing is, it's not just CofE here, there's secular laws to consider as well.


I don't know if it helps but the CofE has this to say



This (http://www.lambchambers.co.uk/news-learning/articles/consecrated-burial-grounds-obstacle-developers-re-radcliffe-infirmary-burial) gives an idea of what goes on in a case for desconsecrating a burial ground for instance.

Note also this (http://www.churchofengland.org/media/55335/appendices.doc):


So it needs to be done legally rather than spiritually (or as well as), and whether you get permission prolly depend son how much the church wants to keep it.

But it is often done -- there's a load of old chapels/churches that have been...repurposed around here.

Basically in the first instance, contact the Bishop's office.

The laws vary widely from state to state.

Mr Flibble
04-29-2014, 02:39 AM
The laws vary widely from state to state.

If you're in the states

But how widespread is Church of England in the States? For all I know maybe it's the dominant religion...but it kinda seems more related to England. What with the Queen being the Defender of the Faith and all (ie the supreme commander of the Church of England) which I imagine might cause a bit of a conflict in USA members of the church?

So anyway, I answered with British wassnames. They seemed more relevant

Bolero
04-29-2014, 05:03 PM
Having read the autobiography of a woman priest (apparently the inspiration for the Vicar of Dibley) who trained in C of E and later moved to the US, there is a difference. Anglican in the USA is effectively run by congregations, not by an overall organisation like the C of E. She was hired by the church and congregation themselves, not appointed to a "living" by the Bishop. (Or whoever does appointments in C of E, not fully up on all the details - don't know how much involvement the Parochial Church Council and church wardens get in an appointment to a parish.)