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Plot Device
04-28-2014, 03:14 PM
My story has a fourteen-year-old boy, the son of a wealthy man. They were sailing together on his dad's yacht. The boy was at the helm, he disobeyed a direct order from his father, made a very bad miscalculation and wrecked the yacht on a pile of rocks.

So now the yacht needs to be towed off for salvage.

The father has insurance, but he wants to make his son understand the seriousness of destroying property, and he wants his son to feel SOME sort of financial pain here, and make his son realize the need for him to pay for what he breaks, especially in light of disobeying a direct order.

The yacht costs over a million dollars, so he can't realistically expect his son to mow enough front lawns or wash enough cars to pay for that in one lifetime.

But there's always the insurance deductible. What if the father makes his son pay the deductible? But what would such a deductible be? And would even the deductible be completely out of reach of the boy?

King Neptune
04-28-2014, 05:55 PM
My story has a fourteen-year-old boy, the son of a wealthy man. They were sailing together on his dad's yacht. The boy was at the helm, he disobeyed a direct order from his father, made a very bad miscalculation and wrecked the yacht on a pile of rocks.

So now the yacht needs to be towed off for salvage.

The father has insurance, but he wants to make his son understand the seriousness of destroying property, and he wants his son to feel SOME sort of financial pain here, and make his son realize the need for him to pay for what he breaks, especially in light of disobeying a direct order.

The yacht costs over a million dollars, so he can't realistically expect his son to mow enough front lawns or wash enough cars to pay for that in one lifetime.

But there's always the insurance deductible. What if the father makes his son pay the deductible? But what would such a deductible be? And would even the deductible be completely out of reach of the boy?

Get a free quote:
https://www.boatus-insurance.com/intuitiveApp/start.aspx?gclid=CISzzo6qg74CFUQF7AodgDoApQ

I don't know much about marine policies, but I know enough about insurance to know that there would be a lot of variables, and you probably can get whatever deductible you want. Call a marine insurance agent and ask. They probably would be happy to help. Search "marine insurance agents".

eparadysz
04-28-2014, 07:18 PM
I don't believe the deductible applies in the case of a total loss. They take the boat away and cut you a check for the insured amount. Of course the father can use the deductible amount if seems appropriate, but it probably wouldn't come into play in the claim. (My ex's boat was totaled in Hurricane Sandy. I don't remember what his deductible was, but the boat was worth under $50K, so wouldn't help you much anyway.)

Kregger
04-28-2014, 08:26 PM
Here's from personal experience. Lightning hit my boat and totalled it. I sailed it for five years and Boat US paid me what I paid for the boat. I will be forever indebted to that company.

Let's see, (opens Boat US policy) I see deductibles on water towing per incident and a trailoring deductible.

Here's the kicker. Salvage is different from on water towing. And salvage after the fact is also different from salvage at the time of the incident. It's a big deal on the water. If the boat was in imminent danger of sinking and/or human life was at sake a salvage claim can be laid on the vessel. It's been years since I looked at the numbers, so please do the research, but a towing company that rescues the boat's occupants and keeps the boat from sinking, may claim up to 20% of the value of the boat.
So the answer is more complicated then any non-boater can imagine. As an example, a boater helping out another boater (relatively small boats) can claim salvage if the words (verbal contract) between the captains is not clear to both participants. I would not want to go to court based on what I thought someone else was offering.

Laws on the water are historical in nature. I sailed with a guy on a barefoot cruise that made Capt'n Bligh appear conservative.

The one thing I found out about cruising--I want to be the guy steering the ship.

Aye, Mateys, Capt'n Kregger at your service. Where's that damn parrot?

frimble3
04-28-2014, 10:57 PM
And, OT, but here goes: why, oh, why would a man let a 14 year old kid take his million dollar yacht anywhere near rocks? Especially if the kid still needed 'direct orders'.
We had boats when I was a kid, small, inexpensive power boats, and Dad always did anything requiring skill or experience, ie, near land or obstacles. We got to practice boat handling out on the open water, where there was room to correct mistakes. If he had to give orders, there was lots of time to follow them, or, indeed, ask for clarification.

A man who puts a million-dollar yacht at risk by leaving a kid in charge in the tricky bits has no business blaming the kid.

cornflake
04-28-2014, 11:01 PM
And, OT, but here goes: why, oh, why would a man let a 14 year old kid take his million dollar yacht anywhere near rocks? Especially if the kid still needed 'direct orders'.
We had boats when I was a kid, small, inexpensive power boats, and Dad always did anything requiring skill or experience, ie, near land or obstacles. We got to practice boat handling out on the open water, where there was room to correct mistakes. If he had to give orders, there was lots of time to follow them, or, indeed, ask for clarification.

A man who puts a million-dollar yacht at risk by leaving a kid in charge in the tricky bits has no business blaming the kid.

This.

Also, would insurance even pay out if a 14-year-old was driving? Is there an age to be in charge of a powered vehicle like that? Would a policy not require certain parameters?

If he let his 14-year-old drive his car and the kid wrecked it, I suspect insurance co. would just laugh at him if he tried to collect.

writingismypassion
04-29-2014, 05:25 AM
I worked for an insurance company, and as I recall the age of the driver isn't necessarily a factor as long as permission was given. So if the father gave the son permission to drive, any damage should be covered. As for the deductible, I'm not sure how high it would be for a yacht. The deductible always applies in some way, however. If the yacht is a total loss, you can be sure the deductible amount will be subtracted from the insured amount before the settlement check is processed. For example: million dollar boat - 10,000 deductible (just a random figure) = check for 990,000. Dad makes son pay him 10,000 to make up for check shortage. Realistically, the son probably can't work enough to pay that amount. If the deductible was smaller, maybe he could.

jclarkdawe
04-29-2014, 07:16 AM
A kid who's father has a million dollar boat mowing lawns to pay for the damage? The old man has a professional lawn service.

Unlikely a million dollar boat is not going to have a couple of professional crew. Until proven to the contrary, the professionals don't trust even the owner, never mind junior.

Insurance in this type of situation is complicated, with probably a damage policy with a limit and then another policy on top for total loss. Salvage costs may be contained in the policy or may be separate. Towing will be over a grand, and salvage is going to be a lot higher. Costs of towing is based upon footage, and salvage on value.

I think you want a lot smaller and cheaper boat. Million dollar boats are definitely not the norm, and I don't see any father trusting junior with his baby in any sort of situation where junior can sink it.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Plot Device
04-29-2014, 02:31 PM
My boat is in Long Island Sound.

The boat is likely going to be one of these, possibly a little bigger (non-motorized sailing vessel):

http://www.hinckleyyachts.com/Sailboats/ds42/ds42.php

http://www.alerionexp.com/alerion-express-series/ae-38/

They were near shoals (Long Island Sound is positively riddled with shoals) and they spotted a whale. The boy wanted to get the boat closer to see the whale and that was how he ran it aground --it was really the shoals hidden beneath the water that he wrecked the boat upon.

Plot Device
04-29-2014, 02:35 PM
I tried to hand out rep points just now to everyone who responded. I was able to send the rep points but for some reason I was unable to type an actual message in the texts boxes. So you all got rep points with no message attached.

They were all just a lot of "thanks."

Especially to my very first respondent (King Neptune) who gave me the web site for getting an online insurance quote. :)

King Neptune
04-29-2014, 04:28 PM
My boat is in Long Island Sound.

The boat is likely going to be one of these, possibly a little bigger (non-motorized sailing vessel):

http://www.hinckleyyachts.com/Sailboats/ds42/ds42.php

http://www.alerionexp.com/alerion-express-series/ae-38/

They were near shoals (Long Island Sound is positively riddled with shoals) and they spotted a whale. The boy wanted to get the boat closer to see the whale and that was how he ran it aground --it was really the shoals hidden beneath the water that he wrecked the boat upon.


Those aren't million dollar boats.
http://www.boats.com/boats/search/boats_search.html?No=0&fromLength=36&man=Alerion+Express+38&searchPage=%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Fquick_search.jsp&Ns=PAll_modelYear|1&sm=3&toLength=41&resultsLayout=0

I couldn't find as good a price for the Hinckley, but it's probably less than $250,000.

The whole thing changes with a 38 to 42 foot boat that's worth less than a quarter million.

eparadysz
04-29-2014, 05:39 PM
Also note that those are not "non-motorized" boats. They have inboard diesel engines, as do most newer sailboats that size.

King Neptune
04-29-2014, 06:00 PM
Yeah, if you went with a sail only, then the price for a 40 footer would be somewhere around $100,000 new.

jclarkdawe
04-29-2014, 06:20 PM
Yes, the boats you're showing are $250K or less, with used available at $50k. A lot different market. They'll have a diesel engine, or sometimes an outboard. Unless you're very good as a sailor, you need power for docking, harbor maneuvering, things like that.

Under sail, a major course change (say 25 degrees) involves not only moving the rudder, but adjusting the sails. To a certain extent, you can actually set you course by the sails, which have a lot more power then the rudder.

Most shoals in Long Island Sound are well marked. And there are two types of shoals, mud and rock. Mud isn't much of a problem, but rock is.

Whales and shoals don't go together well. Whales can't dive in shoal water. Personally I'd have the kid see something floating that he thinks should be investigated. At the moment, I'd think about something the kid thinks is a wing.

Sailboats come either as keelboats and centerboard/retractable keel. That's what's going to hit first. Hit with enough force and you can rip it right off. That makes you top heavy because of the weight of the sail and mast, which is no longer balanced by the keel. And sort of wind and your boat will lay right on its side. Water starts filling the boat, although with positive floatation in most boats, probably doesn't sink.

Personally I'd have the mainsail get trashed at this point and the boat towed off without anything more happening. Mainsail is going to run you about $2,000 and within the kid's means. Of course, the kid can now hunt on eBay and think of stitching the sail himself to give you some options.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Plot Device
05-01-2014, 12:36 AM
Thanks Jim. :cool:

Two things


First:

Yes, the boats you're showing are $250K or less, with used available at $50k. A lot different market. They'll have a diesel engine, or sometimes an outboard. Unless you're very good as a sailor, you need power for docking, harbor maneuvering, things like that.

Then you just gotta suggest to me a boat that IS worth a million. ;) And I need it to be operational by just one man (not a crew).


SECOND:


Sailboats come either as keelboats and centerboard/retractable keel. That's what's going to hit first. Hit with enough force and you can rip it right off. That makes you top heavy because of the weight of the sail and mast, which is no longer balanced by the keel. And sort of wind and your boat will lay right on its side. Water starts filling the boat, although with positive floatation in most boats, probably doesn't sink.

It was a destroyed keel. I cracked the keel, boat filled with water, capsized, marine salvage company came. Dad of 14-yr-old is very pissed.

jclarkdawe
05-01-2014, 01:27 AM
Boats at a million or so are designed to show off, and very rarely for real sailing. There are a few that are set up for single handed sailing, like the boats used in the Vendée Globe (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVend%25 C3%25A9e_Globe&ei=-mZhU4XAB8yGyASGxYKQBg&usg=AFQjCNGisDQ6OQzJihxGZsnVjzyBbz2jFA&sig2=2PvLfYEfJbL5KoZ_CUC5zQ&bvm=bv.65636070,d.aWw). Very specialized boats. On boats this size, the mainsail is huge and you really need to know what you're doing or you're going to get into trouble real quick.

Million dollar boats tend to be in the 50 - 100 foot range, and boats right at a million are rare these days. The market seems to be under $500k or $5 - 10 million. A million dollar boat just doesn't impress and show off the owner's wealth in the proper fashion.

You probably want a motor yacht rather then strictly a sailboat. A motor yacht in this size range is marginally able to be done solo, but you're got to be pretty experienced. Trying to dock one of these suckers is like trying to park a bus at the grocery store, except for the fact it has no brakes.

A motor yacht is also more likely to suffer in the way you described. Cracking the keel on a sailboat, as long as the keel stays attached to the boat, doesn't usually lead to sinking, as there is no space for water in the keel.

Here's an ad for a boat selling at 1.7 million Euros -- http://www.ypigroup.com/yacht-blalumar-for-sale-4000022.htm?search_type=sales&search_yacht_types[]=2&search_destination=0&search_guests=0&amount_weekly_budget_min=0&amount_weekly_budget_max=200&search_yacht=0&search_shipyard=&redirect_title=Luxury%20Yachts%20for%20Sale&search_display=6&page=4&search_sort_by=length

For a couple of hundred thousand, I could rig this sucker for solo sailing. But it's a nice boat in that price range, relatively new so not much of a discount over the brand new price. It's about what I would expect to buy for a million dollar yacht, knowing it will not be the biggest and best yacht in the harbor. But it will probably be in the top ten, unless I'm someplace like Nantucket.

But without some serious investments, not something you can handle by yourself.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Plot Device
05-01-2014, 01:45 AM
Boats at a million or so are designed to show off, and very rarely for real sailing. There are a few that are set up for single handed sailing, like the boats used in the Vendée Globe (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVend%25 C3%25A9e_Globe&ei=-mZhU4XAB8yGyASGxYKQBg&usg=AFQjCNGisDQ6OQzJihxGZsnVjzyBbz2jFA&sig2=2PvLfYEfJbL5KoZ_CUC5zQ&bvm=bv.65636070,d.aWw). Very specialized boats. On boats this size, the mainsail is huge and you really need to know what you're doing or you're going to get into trouble real quick.

Million dollar boats tend to be in the 50 - 100 foot range, and boats right at a million are rare these days. The market seems to be under $500k or $5 - 10 million. A million dollar boat just doesn't impress and show off the owner's wealth in the proper fashion.

You probably want a motor yacht rather then strictly a sailboat. A motor yacht in this size range is marginally able to be done solo, but you're got to be pretty experienced. Trying to dock one of these suckers is like trying to park a bus at the grocery store, except for the fact it has no brakes.

A motor yacht is also more likely to suffer in the way you described. Cracking the keel on a sailboat, as long as the keel stays attached to the boat, doesn't usually lead to sinking, as there is no space for water in the keel.

Here's an ad for a boat selling at 1.7 million Euros -- http://www.ypigroup.com/yacht-blalumar-for-sale-4000022.htm?search_type=sales&search_yacht_types[]=2&search_destination=0&search_guests=0&amount_weekly_budget_min=0&amount_weekly_budget_max=200&search_yacht=0&search_shipyard=&redirect_title=Luxury%20Yachts%20for%20Sale&search_display=6&page=4&search_sort_by=length

For a couple of hundred thousand, I could rig this sucker for solo sailing. But it's a nice boat in that price range, relatively new so not much of a discount over the brand new price. It's about what I would expect to buy for a million dollar yacht, knowing it will not be the biggest and best yacht in the harbor. But it will probably be in the top ten, unless I'm someplace like Nantucket.

But without some serious investments, not something you can handle by yourself.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

All good info. :) I just need to lower my price tag then.

King Neptune
05-01-2014, 01:59 AM
See if any of these strike your fancy.

http://www.tradeaboat.co.nz/search/class-sail/year-2013/price-500000-10000000
or
http://www.breweryacht.com/Brokerage/AdvancedSearch.aspx?slim=pp278375&cit=true&sm=3&type=%28Sail
or better
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/category/type/builder/model/United+States/Connecticut
the first few of this are in the price range
Move fast on the Brigantine, or I'll snap it up, as soon as I can free up the money.They just dropped the price from 1.5 mil to 1.1, so maybe they need to get rid of it.