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ilovetoreadnwrite
04-10-2014, 03:56 AM
Hi everyone! Pretty new here, so I'd appreciate any help given :$

So anyway, I'm writing a story where during the climax part of it, the main girl gets stabbed in the abdomen while trying to protect her husband. The blade is about 6-7 inches long, possibly double-edged (I'm reconsidering the serrations on the blade; they make it more painful to be stabbed, but I've also heard they bring inner organs out of the body when the knife is pulled out), and it goes fully into her body, right up to the hilt (at least for the first time). For the knife, it could be any one of these (http://www.smashinglists.com/10-deadliest-combat-knives-daggers/). I was thinking of the Gerber Mark II on the second page (since it seems very deadly), but there's the serrations-ripping-organs-out to think about. So to answer these questions, assume the knife used is the fixation bowie. Of course, the main girl wouldn't know anything about the blade - except that it's long, double-edged, and looks dangerous. But I'm trying to determine what knife to use so it can be compatible with the damage done.
She gets stabbed 5 (or a few more) times in the abdomen area, and the villain twists the knife when they stab her; and the knife is not left inside her body, so she bleeds out. The girl is 23 years old, really skinny, a bit underweight, but otherwise healthy. And here's a basic overview of the scenario:

Her husband was fighting villain A, and villain B was coming to stab him in the back when he wasn't looking. So the girl shields his back with her body - villain B stabs the girl instead, and twists the blade - and then runs away with the knife still in her (because that was the only knife villain B had, so they'd be unarmed without it). But villain B catches up to her and knocks her down, and twists the knife out of her, and keeps stabbing her (if it sounds too violent, please tell me whether I need to tone it down a bit). Eventually the husband finishes fighting villain A, turns around, and sees his wife getting attacked by villain B. At the exact moment, his wife's friend pushes villain B away and starts fighting with her, so the husband rushes to his wife. She's unconscious and isn't breathing, so he blows air into her lungs. She awakens, and talks to him for a minute or two - though she's in lots of pain and only says a few words - but goes unconscious after that. The medics reach her about five minutes after that, so she does get medical help pretty fast.

The thing is, I want an injury inflicted on her to result in a lot of external blood loss from the wounds, but no organs coming out of her body or anything. and no blood coming from her mouth. And I don't want her stabbed in a limb or something; abdomen or chest (but chest wounds risk lung damage, and that results in coughing up blood, which I don't want). She should be on the brink of death, but I want her to survive, without any real permanent damage.

My questions are all practically around the logistics of the scenario (is it realistic that this happens in the story):

1) Is it realistic for her to survive this? Given that it's a long blade (and I want it to be dangerous, and not just a three inch knife or something), and she gets stabbed repeatedly. And the knife gets twisted at least once in her body, leaving room for more blood to come out. She receives reasonable treatment before the medics arrive (which takes five to ten minutes), but loses lots of blood. Can she still survive without permanent damage? If not, what factor could I change so that she does survive without permanent damage (length of the blade to an extent, number of times stabbed, etc.)? I still want her stabbed multiple times in the abdomen, and the wound should look lethal...

2) Where in the abdomen can she get stabbed that could lead to a lot of external blood loss, but no organs will come out of the wound, and she won't cough up blood? I've looked it up a fair bit, and I found that lung or heart wounds lead to blood coming out of your mouth, so I'm avoiding that. And intestine wounds lead to the intestines sticking out of your body - something else I want to avoid. So I was thinking about having her get stabbed near the stomach - so it injures her stomach, but not so severely that she vomits - and the knife cuts her inferior vena cava and/or abdominal aorta (this brings on the massive blood loss). Is it reasonable to assume that getting stabbed repeatedly near the stomach will not bring the results that I want to avoid (organs coming out, coughing blood), but can still draw out a lot of blood?

3) Assume that she initially gets stabbed near the stomach (so that's like, underneath the rib cage and well above the belly button), and the knife is thrust into her body in a slightly upwards direction, so that it goes in up to the hilt. What are the organs and veins it could puncture on its way in and out? And does blood start coming out when the knife gets twisted, even though the blade is still inside the body?

4) What would happen when she runs away from the villain, with the knife still lodged in her abdomen? Would the movement cause the knife to move around in her body and cut her more, or would it just stay inside? Because I've read that you're not supposed to move when you're stabbed, and that if you do, it just makes the wounds worse. So I was just wondering what happens if you do try to run with a knife stuck in you...

5) Can she still talk for a few minutes if she's incapacitated to this extent? Because I want her to be able to talk to her husband for a bit before she fully goes unconscious.

6) So the husband's a second year med student. When he finds her, he does CPR on her when she isn't breathing, and - due to a lack of resources - applies pressure on her wound by pressing his hand onto her abdomen, where the stab wounds are. He holds her in his arms so her head isn't hanging back and she's almost in a sitting position (the typical boy holding girl in his arms position, I suppose...). Is this realistic for a medical student to do when taking care of an injured person? Like, I've researched around, and found that you have to cover up the injury with cloth or something. But there was nothing at hand in this scenario; and if that's the case, apparently just using your hand to apply pressure is enough...?

7) Would it be possible for her to go into coma from all the blood loss? I was thinking of writing that even though the surgery heals her wounds, her initial blood loss sent her into coma. And she would wake up in a couple of days. I wanted to write that because while she lies unconscious in the hospital, her husband sits by her side and confesses to her he loves her, and begs her to wake up. So, does that sound realistic, or should I just ignore the coma factor and just have her unconscious for a long time, and he can talk to her while she's sedated from the surgery or something?

8) Is it reasonable to assume that she will be in the hospital for three weeks? And then at home, but bed-rested for a couple more? How long should she be bed-rested before recovering enough to go back to her normal life? Cuz I want her to be back to normal in two months, since her best friend's wedding will be then. But if that's not realistic, then I can push the wedding to six months after the attack, giving her plenty of recovery time.

I know this sounds like a very brutal thing to happen to a 23-year-old girl (who is very kind and sensitive and innocent), but the purpose of this scene is to show how selfless the girl is, and how she would walk into danger's path to protect someone she loves so much. And the attack is based on revenge, which is why it is so vicious and targeted towards inflicting pain. But please let me know if I need to tone it down a bit to ensure that the main girl survives.

I've looked this stuff up a lot, and tried to write a scenario based on what I found out, so I want to know if this is realistic. Sorry about the mass amount of words; I've provided as much detail as I could about the scenario, so I can get accurate feedback. Please let me know if any info is missing. And I would really appreciate any helpful feedback I can get :)


P.S. Please do not write hurtful or deliberately unhelpful comments. I don't mean this in an offensive way; I've seen many questions about such things get negative feedback simply for having curiosity, or making jokes about the questions being asked. I would like to know this for the story I'm writing, so answers would be appreciated!

Nivarion
04-10-2014, 04:26 AM
In most of those situations you asked about, survival rates are abysmal. If the knife took the spleen, inferior vena cava, aorta, liver, colon or got the Diaphragm a couple of times, she could die if attacked on on an ER operating table with a team of surgeons prepped in the next room.

The twisting with a knife of that size is likely to hit at least one of those.

To live I would shorten the knife (The knives used in the 9/11 attacks were less than an inch) that protects the big blood vessels and colon. The stabs would be predominantly on the right side, mainly in the liver and the muscle there to be survivable but critical, bloody and painful.

If she passed out from blood loss (hypovolemia) she would most likely wake up when given a transfusion. If she went into a coma, it would be most likely from infection from having intestines cut. (bad bad bad situation)

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-10-2014, 04:53 AM
Thank you for the feedback!

So the modifications made:
The knife can have a blade five inches long.
The knife is twisted in her body only on the first time she gets stabbed.
And yes, the stabs being on the right side is a good idea, and it works out with the scenario too, since she runs to shield her husband, and gets cut while doing so, so it isn't a perfectly aimed hit.
So she would be hit in the liver, and the stabs into the right side draw out a lot of blood?
Does this sound more reasonable?

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 01:07 AM
hi guys; kinda new here....

so im writing a story where my main character gets shot in the upper abdomen area (although I'm still debating on where she should get shot). point is, she's a student teacher, and she gets shot in mid december. I need her up and out of the hospital by the time january kicks in, so she can go back to her job/training at school. so where would you recommend that she gets shot?
at first I've considered her getting shot above the chest, but that risks damage to the lungs and heart, which takes a long time to recover. plus i've researched this a lot, and i found that bullets just go right through the body - which causes significant damage. so is there a place she can get shot, where the bullet won't travel right through, and there'll be a lot of blood coming out (more external bleeding than internal), but she can make a recovery in two weeks (or a month, if two weeks is impossible)?

NeuroGlide
04-11-2014, 01:25 AM
hi guys; kinda new here....

so im writing a story where my main character gets shot in the upper abdomen area (although I'm still debating on where she should get shot). point is, she's a student teacher, and she gets shot in mid december. I need her up and out of the hospital by the time january kicks in, so she can go back to her job/training at school. so where would you recommend that she gets shot?
at first I've considered her getting shot above the chest, but that risks damage to the lungs and heart, which takes a long time to recover. plus i've researched this a lot, and i found that bullets just go right through the body - which causes significant damage. so is there a place she can get shot, where the bullet won't travel right through, and there'll be a lot of blood coming out (more external bleeding than internal), but she can make a recovery in two weeks (or a month, if two weeks is impossible)?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: A graze or flesh wound, where it just breaks the skin, or is just in the muscle would be mostly healed at a month, but she'ld still feel it every time she moved. Might be summer break before that goes away. The gun is a big factor. Handgun?

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 01:33 AM
Shot? What caliber? What range?

Stabbed? By a short blade, long blade, dagger? Two-edged, single-edged, smooth edge, serrated? Blade left in the body; pulled straight back out; stab, twist, pull?

The specifications of the weapon are of crucial importance to the experience.

Shot: the bullet entering the body will not be hot enough to cauterize [as mentioned above], but it will be hot enough to prevent carrying bacteria into the wound on the bullet itself, although it's equally important how clean the skin is at the time of getting shot, since 'surface' bacteria can wreak havoc in open wounds. However, the kinetic energy of the bullet will cause the path of the bullet to cause more damage than the actual bullet itself and suck debris into the wound.

Stabbed [something of my expertise, but don't ask]: a blade is much worse than a bullet. Even the biggest caliber bullet won't make a large entry wound when compared to getting stabbed with a knife. Perhaps the smallest stab wound would be with an ice-pick, screwdriver or spike dagger. However, these items are often long enough to reach vital organs. If you stab and leave the blade for the paramedics, chances are the flat of the blade will seal the arteries slightly [not enough to prevent bleeding, of course, but flow will be impeded]. If you pull straight back, there will be a difference between an artery being sliced or ripped. Most damage comes from stab>twist>pull techniques, especially with serrated/hooked blades.
Bacterial infection is always a problem with stab wounds - the blade will almost never be sterile, so you'll carry bacteria into the wound. This is also why a bullet removal by a back alley doctor can be a problem - a non-sterile scalpel will be much more dangerous than the bullet that's to be removed...



so i'm writing a story, where my main character gets attacked. she's twenty-three, really skinny, but otherwise healthy. first thing, she gets shot in the abdomen [but i'm still debating on where it should be] while escaping the villains, so it'll be from quite a long distance. for that scenario, i want her to lose consciousness about a minute after she gets shot (she and her friends escape the villains, her friend catches her as she stumbles, hand comes away red, MC passes out), and of course, for there to be a lot of external bleeding. but i also need her to make a recovery within 2 weeks to 1 month (she works as a student teacher, and she gets shot over the winter break, but she has to come back to work in january). so where should she get shot, by what caliber gun, and how many times?

secondly, in another incident that takes place after six months, she gets stabbed by the villain. it's a revenge attack, so it's pretty brutal. the knife (5-6 inches, double edged, possibly serrated) is thrust upwards, so it goes fully into her body, right up to the hilt. she falls to the ground, then the villain twists it out of her, and keeps stabbing her repeatedly (she's weakened by the first blow, so she offers no resistance, except writhing in pain). the knife is not left inside her body, and the stab>twist>pull technique was used.
i was first going for the area just above the stomach (because that risks the vena cava and abdominal aorta, bringing a lot of blood), but i was told that if that were the case, she has almost no chance of surviving. so i was suggested she get stabbed in the right upper side of the abdomen, so it hits the liver (massive blood loss), and she could still survive the attack.
does that sound realistic? getting stabbed repeatedly (about 5-7 times) in the liver area, but surviving, and leaving the hospital in about a month?
i just need her to get stabbed in the abdomen region, sustain fatal injuries, have a lot of external blood loss (so when she is discovered, there's a pool of blood around her and her shirt is stained with it), but still survive. oh, and i don't want any organs protruding from her body, and i don't want any blood coming from her mouth.
i know i can use the idea of fiction and defy all odds and have the girl survive, but i just want to make sure the attack itself is realistic enough to survive.

open to any suggestions; thank you very much :)

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 02:23 AM
Short answer: No.

Long answer: A graze or flesh wound, where it just breaks the skin, or is just in the muscle would be mostly healed at a month, but she'ld still feel it every time she moved. Might be summer break before that goes away. The gun is a big factor. Handgun?

i honestly don't know anything about gun types and stuff.... and if it's that severe, i suppose i can just have her stabbed once in the side or something. but the thing is, in another incident six months later, she gets stabbed repeatedly. so i didn't know if i should use the same type of attack twice in the story.
but if it comes down to that, i guess i can just write that she gets stabbed, and it doesn't have to hit anything vital; just a place where a fair amount of blood will come out. would the left side of the abdomen be a good spot for that, or more to the centre?

Cath
04-11-2014, 02:27 AM
ilovetoreadandwrite, I've moved all of your posts into this thread. Please stop reopening old threads to ask the same question. You won't get any more answers, and you'll just push your new thread off the front page of the forum.

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 02:33 AM
so in my story, my main character gets stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen (i'm thinking on the right-centre side, where the liver is. it cuts her liver and possibly her diaphragm too, because the knife is thrust upwards). the knife is twisted in her body, and it's not left in, so she bleeds out. she falls unconscious after her husband finds her, and the medics arrive at the scene about 5-10 minutes after she gets stabbed. the husband's a second year med student, but he's in shock and heartbroken, so i don't know how involved he would be in terms of healing her (he does hold her in a sitting position, and uses his hand to apply pressure to her wounds, but i'm not sure what he could do after the medics arrive). so what would the procedure be like for a case like this? like, what are the words exchanged in the vehicle as she is transported to the hospital? and can the MC's husband, and his brother, sit in the vehicle with her, or is it just the MC who'll be in the ambulance, and the unharmed ones need separate transportation to get to the hospital? if they can be in the ambulance with her, do they sit near her or will she be out of their sight?
sorry, too many questions, but i need to construct a realistic scene where she gets transported to the hospital.

and once they reach the hospital, what will the procedure look like there? and again, what kind of words get exchanged about the patient's condition? and how much of this will the MC's husband hear?

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 02:39 AM
ilovetoreadandwrite, I've moved all of your posts into this thread. Please stop reopening old threads to ask the same question. You won't get any more answers, and you'll just push your new thread off the front page of the forum.

ooh, alright. sorry about that :$ thanks for the heads-up, cath! won't happen again. and sorry once again!

NeuroGlide
04-11-2014, 03:45 AM
i honestly don't know anything about gun types and stuff.... and if it's that severe, i suppose i can just have her stabbed once in the side or something. but the thing is, in another incident six months later, she gets stabbed repeatedly. so i didn't know if i should use the same type of attack twice in the story.
but if it comes down to that, i guess i can just write that she gets stabbed, and it doesn't have to hit anything vital; just a place where a fair amount of blood will come out. would the left side of the abdomen be a good spot for that, or more to the centre?

Handgun: A gun you can carry in one hand such as a pistol or revolver. Submachine guns, rifles & shotguns are not handgun.

1. Who is doing the shooting (the actual shooter) and what location (alley, building, etc, ...) and I'll try to develop something plausible.

2. Stabbings are usually more fatal than gun shot wounds. They produce larger wound cavities and result in heavier bleeding.

3. Why doesn't she move? Worst. Neighborhood. Ever. :(

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 04:52 AM
Handgun: A gun you can carry in one hand such as a pistol or revolver. Submachine guns, rifles & shotguns are not handgun.

1. Who is doing the shooting (the actual shooter) and what location (alley, building, etc, ...) and I'll try to develop something plausible.

2. Stabbings are usually more fatal than gun shot wounds. They produce larger wound cavities and result in heavier bleeding.

3. Why doesn't she move? Worst. Neighborhood. Ever. :(


Okay, so she's on her way back home from work (walking to the bus stop), and sees a woman get kidnapped - they take her into a creek area. She rushes to help her, and calls 911 (and her best friend's brother, cuz he's a martial arts teacher). anywho, so she gets the woman out, but while they're all running away, she gets shot in the side. one of the kidnappers fires at them as they run away, and a bullet hits her.

And the second attack is based on revenge. the kidnappers get caught because the MC rescued the woman, and so they want to take revenge on her. so the second time, they take her friend as a hostage to lure her, and she gets attacked. so where she lives is irrelevant to her being attacked.

funny you asked about moving; between the attacks, she actually does move. she gets married, lives with her in-laws, then the couple move into their own house too. but, like i said, that has no relevance to the attacks, cuz the first one was by accident, and the second one was plotted revenge.

NeuroGlide
04-11-2014, 07:12 AM
Okay, so she's on her way back home from work (walking to the bus stop), and sees a woman get kidnapped - they take her into a creek area. She rushes to help her, and calls 911 (and her best friend's brother, cuz he's a martial arts teacher). anywho, so she gets the woman out, but while they're all running away, she gets shot in the side. one of the kidnappers fires at them as they run away, and a bullet hits her.

She hung up on 911? 'Cuse me.

:Bashes head against table.:

:Again:

:Again:

:Again:

Ok, she tries to call her BF's bro, but is interrupted when 911 calls her back and tells her to stay on the ****ing line! They need her to flag the first responding unit down and point out where the kidnappers went. Noting the vehicle they get into, also useful. Not getting a high-velocity piercing, a major plus.

First unit arrives, she pointing out direction, giving description of perps and victim when one of the kidnappers step back around a corner. He shoots her to shut her up.

Good things in her favor: The police means he's keeping as much distance as possible. Not only is the shot more difficult, but the bullet will loose energy as it travels, lessening the injury. The flashing lights also distract. Out of necessity (she's side on to him) he's shooting at a smaller target.

Bad news: Crooks like to be as well armed as the cops. Nine mil or forty five, a serious bullet. I have to hit her in the fleshiest place possible. Unfortunately, you said she was skinny (damn it woman, it wouldn't kill you to eat a cheeseburger once and a while). Struck in the breast.


And the second attack is based on revenge. the kidnappers get caught because the MC rescued the woman, and so they want to take revenge on her. so the second time, they take her friend as a hostage to lure her, and she gets attacked. so where she lives is irrelevant to her being attacked.

Ok, how do they find her?

ilovetoreadnwrite
04-11-2014, 07:35 AM
She hung up on 911? 'Cuse me.

:Bashes head against table.:

:Again:

:Again:

:Again:

Ok, she tries to call her BF's bro, but is interrupted when 911 calls her back and tells her to stay on the ****ing line! They need her to flag the first responding unit down and point out where the kidnappers went. Noting the vehicle they get into, also useful. Not getting a high-velocity piercing, a major plus.

First unit arrives, she pointing out direction, giving description of perps and victim when one of the kidnappers step back around a corner. He shoots her to shut her up.

Good things in her favor: The police means he's keeping as much distance as possible. Not only is the shot more difficult, but the bullet will loose energy as it travels, lessening the injury. The flashing lights also distract. Out of necessity (she's side on to him) he's shooting at a smaller target.

Bad news: Crooks like to be as well armed as the cops. Nine mil or forty five, a serious bullet. I have to hit her in the fleshiest place possible. Unfortunately, you said she was skinny (damn it woman, it wouldn't kill you to eat a cheeseburger once and a while). Struck in the breast.



Ok, how do they find her?


no, she didn't hang up on 911. i messed up the order; she calls her friend first, then 911. but i figured that's a silly move, cuz first call should be to 911. but i kinda need her best friend and crew to be on the scene too. gonna change that to this:
her and her best friend walking together, and they see the woman get kidnapped. MC calls 911, while best friend calls her brother, to notify him about it. he arrives very quickly, cuz they're pretty close to their place.
and the kidnapping scene - i was thinking of writing it like, the woman walking down the street, kidnapper grabs her, covers her mouth, and takes her down into this dense grassy area (kinda goes downhill) that leads to the creek. the two girls see this, and they both make the phone call (my initial plan was for the girl to walk into the grassy area to find them, and then silently calls her BF and leaves the phone on, so that they can hear her talk to the kidnappers, and bring help; but then i thought that might not make sense, plus i need it to be a quick grab-the-victim-and-run-out-of-there situation). and while 911 is on its way, the girls could try and rescue the woman, and the MC gets shot just as the police arrive on the scene.

I'm sorry; I'm missing a lot of logistics on this scene, I know. I haven't FULLY planned it out yet, to be honest...
I like your idea. That help comes and she points them towards the kidnappers, but she gets shot. I guess that leaves her best friend out of the scene, but the police can always inform her (she calls to see why MC isn't home yet; cops pick up and inform her of the incident). I guess I can work around that. Does that sound more logical?
And, she's vegetarian and a picky eater, so there's a lot she doesn't eat. unfortunately for her, she can't get fat even if she tries. and she kinda has rather small chests, so would that be a great deal fleshier than her waist or something?

And, how they find her for the second attack is kind of a long story. it's a spy on their part, who pretends to be good friends with a person the MC is closely connected with. and they track her information down. and in fact, this close connection of the MC is the person they end up taking as a hostage.

BTW, thank you so much for your feedback. Clearly, I have no knowledge in these things, so it definitely helps to hear from someone who would know more :)

NeuroGlide
04-12-2014, 06:54 AM
A better plan for the second attack is the perils of Facebook. She's blogging about her wedding and such and their able to narrow down her location from that. And the court system is slower than that, they won't have gone to trial so their motive is witness elimination. And the attack is done by friends. Their being in jail is their alibi.