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JennaGlatzer
03-11-2006, 03:25 AM
So, as some of you know, Anthony and I are trying to conceive. Recently, I joined a TTC site so I could ask questions about charting and testing and whatnot. There, I stumbled on a discussion about smoking while pregnant.

(Keep in mind that I quit smoking the instant we started TTC, and it's still hard for me-- but I'm not going to mess up!)

Anyway. The discussion evolved sort of like this. I'll make up names of the participants:

Helen- Boy, I don't understand why women smoke while they're pregnant.

Iris- Yeah! They should know better.

Sue- I smoked while I was pregnant and my kid is fine.

Helen- Are you planning to smoke while you're pregnant if you get pregnant again?

Sue- Sure. You can't live your life being afraid of every risk. Then it's no fun.

Colleen- I smoked while I was pregnant too. Don't judge me! I was on drugs and it was really hard to quit drugs and if I had to quit smoking, too, it would have put me over the edge.

Gilda- I don't think that's a great excuse. I was a partier, too, but when I found out I was pregnant, I quit everything. You can do it if you care enough.

Colleen- You suck! You're so judgmental!

Lula- Yeah, Colleen. These people are so mean! Why can't they just be supportive?

Me- Because it's wrong to poison your kid. If you want to make irresponsible choices for yourself, go for it, but it's not right to make an irresponsible choice for a baby who could suffer or even die for it.

Lula- I smoke because it helps me deal with the stress of seeing negative pregnancy tests all the time. It's hard for some people! Why can't you just mind your own business?

Me- Because I don't want to see a baby suffer because you don't want to feel stressed out.

Lula- I smoked while I was pregnant and my kid never gets sick, and my sister didn't smoke while she was pregnant and she has two kids with disabilities.

Me- Don't be dumb. Sure, you can find exceptions, but smoking while pregnant is putting your baby at risk. Our parents' generation may not have known that, but we do. I don't think you deserve to get pregnant if you plan to smoke while you're pregnant.

ALL THREE SMOKERS- You know what? Fu$k you, Jenna! You don't know me! I'll be the greatest mom ever and it's my choice and it's none of your business and I hope you're infertile for the rest of your life!

(I'm not kidding... those are really the things they said.)

GIANT CHORUS OF PEOPLE- Yeah! You're so mean, Jenna! Smoking is an addiction, you know. It's their choice and they're the ones who'll pay the medical bills if it's necessary, and you don't know how hard their lives are, so just leave them alone! I hope you get pregnant soon, smokers!

Me- OK. Got it. Just so you know, I plan on hitting my belly with a hammer once a day when I get pregnant. It relaxes me. Now wish me babydust!

GIANT CHORUS OF PEOPLE- We hope you die, Jenna!

Swear.

I had a couple of people backing up the things I was saying, but most of them were saying to leave these poor girls alone and let them smoke and get pregnant.

So I started thinking that the world is screwed up because we really do live in a giant community of selfish idiots who are being taught that whatever feels good is fine and nothing should be hard, and everything is "good enough," and you should always come first. Those people pass those values onto their children, who grow up to feel entitled and selfish. I'm living in a world where people will fight to defend their right to smoke while pregnant, and other people will jump in to tell me not to judge them!

Thing is, we're not supposed to keep our mouths shut if we see a child being abused at home... but not only am I supposed to keep my mouth shut in this instance, but I'm actually supposed to root for these women to become pregnant.

Iyiyiyiyi.

trumancoyote
03-11-2006, 03:36 AM
I'm sorry they said that to you, Jenna :\

I'll admit: I've wanted you dead at times. But my reasons were warranted.

...

(I kid!)

JoeEkaitis
03-11-2006, 03:49 AM
Oh, it gets better (http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/pregnant.asp).

JAlpha
03-11-2006, 03:51 AM
Hugs Jenna http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHug2.gif


You are right, people suck! Now get back to your mission to create your own universe http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://photobucket.com/albums/c34/JAlpha/th_break20bed.gif (http://photobucket.com/albums/c34/JAlpha/?action=view&current=break20bed.gif)

Perks
03-11-2006, 03:51 AM
Good lord, the stress generated from those encounters is just not what you would need during this time. I hope you find another TTC board whose members are more constructive. And beyond that, I hope you graduate from TTC to First Trimester Fears and Torments this next cycle.

(Try to adjust your diet to the protein-heavy side now. 70 or so grams a day. There is some evidence that it may help stave off morning sickness. I did some study toward becoming a midwife until I found out that writing was much less messy.)

veinglory
03-11-2006, 03:56 AM
Some people never seem to learn how to disagree without getting nasty and personal [sigh]

trumancoyote
03-11-2006, 04:00 AM
**** your mother. We can too.

rhymegirl
03-11-2006, 04:13 AM
Jenna, I have to comment on this.

I say GOOD FOR YOU for speaking your mind! It takes a lot of guts to say what you really think when you're surrounded by people who have an opposing view.

I used to work in a hospital business office years ago. At that time, smoking was allowed in the building. There were smokers and non-smokers. As a non-smoker I often got into heated discussions with the smokers. Every argument I threw at them was disputed. I was out-numbered. Sometimes I just gave up arguing. It made my blood pressure go up, and their stupid logic was just too hard to deal with.

Now you're gonna hear another woman's attitude about pregnancy. I did not smoke or drink or do drugs or in any way endanger my kids when I was pregnant. It's a sacrifice for 9 months that you make for your child. Some of us feel that way even if those women you were dealing with didn't. I don't know about them saying their kids were perfectly fine. I have read that women who smoke while pregnant have low birth weight babies. That's not really a good thing.

There are other ways to relieve stress besides smoking and drinking. That is very sad that they have that attitude that they can't get through nine months of pregnancy without their vices. I've learned that sometimes no matter what you say to people, they are not gonna back down. You can only take comfort in knowing that you have the right idea and there are plenty of us women who agree with you.

Perks
03-11-2006, 04:19 AM
Do you know I have actually heard dim bimbo's quip, "Low birthweight sounds like it'll make it a lot easier to get out!" Hand over the ovaries and back away slowly.

clintl
03-11-2006, 04:24 AM
Sorry to hear you had to got through that, Jenna, but you were 100% in the right.

Good luck!

MacAllister
03-11-2006, 04:28 AM
Oy.

It's really sad when people can't differentiate between actual tolerance and stupidly accepting any old bad behavior.

I'm sorry, Jenna.

JennaGlatzer
03-11-2006, 04:28 AM
Hand over the ovaries and back away slowly.

:roll: Oh, dear Lord!

Hey, thanks for the good wishes. I just found out that if we did conceive on this cycle (wishful thinking), the baby would be due on my birthday! Neat, huh?

trumancoyote
03-11-2006, 04:34 AM
Get off this messageboard and get porkin' already!

TheIT
03-11-2006, 04:36 AM
I was born on my mother's birthday (C-section, so she got to choose the date). She always said I was her best birthday present. I loved it when I was a little girl (since we always had two birthday cakes :Cake: ), and as I got older I loved sharing the day because of the extra closeness.

Good luck in your attempts to have a baby, and don't let the turkeys get you down!

Cabria
03-11-2006, 04:37 AM
Wow Jenna. That was unbelievable to read. And I commend you for speaking your mind to these people. From my background history as a nurse and from carrying to full-term three healthy children, it is the responsibility of the mother to avoid any potential risks to the fetus. Smoking - a ticking time bomb throughout pregnancy. Fetal alcohol syndrome - another horrid condition resulting from irresponsibility. I'm sorry you had to listen to their crap.

Hugs,
Debbie http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHug2.gif
p.s. Good luck to you and Anthony...and enjoy the fun part in trying! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

dahmnait
03-11-2006, 04:42 AM
Do you know I have actually heard dim bimbo's quip, "Low birthweight sounds like it'll make it a lot easier to get out!" Hand over the ovaries and back away slowly.I only thought that once during my whole pregnancy, when I was having to push out my 10lb 9oz monster boy. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
But if I hadn't quit when I got pregnant I could have ended up like my friend. Her daughter was born weighing a little over 5lbs with a heart murmur, and my friend didn't smoke. Why anyone would decrease the chance for thier child to be healthy is beyond me. The smoker who said that she will be a great mom is already off to a really bad start.

Good for you Jenna. It's not easy to quit, nor is it easy to put up with that kind of stupidity. Thier comments to you have the sound of the guilty. They know it's bad and are trying to find people to justify thier positions. Unfortunately, they found what they were looking for.

I agree with Perks when she said, "I hope you graduate from TTC to First Trimester Fears and Torments this next cycle."

writerterri
03-11-2006, 04:59 AM
I knew a lady who smoked during her pregnancy at my church. I watched her in disbelief. A few months later I was taking my turn in the nursery and saw a baby who's head was 2/3rds the size of what a normal babies head should be. The eyes were of normal size, but couln't fit into the sockets of the skull so they protruded on the outside of the skull. The baby was very small and couldn't eat from a bottle. It had a feeding tube going into it's nose. Later the mother came to get her baby and it was the lady who smoked during her pregnancy. I heard her say while she was pregnant that she smoked with her last pregnancy and her 4 year old was fine so she wasn't going to quit this time either.



Sad.


Good thing you quit Jenna. I did the same thing.


7 days after your last period starts, start making deposits, but every other day for 10 days. After your hubby makes the deposit stick your bottom up on a pillow and put your legs in the air for 20 min. Against a wall if you can. It worked for me. Limit alcohol too, no alcohol if you can. Start taking prenatal pills now too. That should make your womb a healthy place to make a baby.

good luck and have fun!


Terri

September skies
03-11-2006, 05:12 AM
I'm proud of you, Jenna. And, so sorry they said the things they did to you. That was just plain evil on their part.
Yes, smoker babies have low birth weights, but that's just the beginning. And, remember also, how awful second-hand smoke can be on young children. If they aren't quitting now, they won't care to step outside or away from a child (to smoke) after they're born.

Good luck, Jenna! Have fun trying to conceive. You'll smile back at it one day, while holding your precious little one, and know that it was all worth it.

Took me 7 years to get pregnant a second time. (including specialists and painful procedures) But finally, after giving up, it happened. And -- she was worth the wait. My perfect angel turned 16 yesterday.

robeiae
03-11-2006, 05:24 AM
Jenna, why did you change my name to Colleen?

Oh, by the way, I know a sure fire way to conceive: both of you stay in bed until you're pregnant. Works every time (also, make him do the dishes during Sportscenter until you're pregnant--that works even better).

Rob :)

madderblue
03-11-2006, 05:51 AM
What worked for me, after two years of not being able to conceive...despite even pillows and thermometers and 'giving up'...

...So I'm charting my basal temp and all, having the doctor say..."okay, yea, well, looks like the day after tomorrow will be your Go Day." And listening to him and oh-so-obeying, and still not getting pregnant two years later...I decided all by myself that maybe I was too late. Since sperm hangs around for a while, better to be a little early than a little late. I moved my Go Day up a little. He said Friday, we starting 'trying' from Wednesday. The first time we did this, got pregnant. Voila!

Vanessa
03-11-2006, 05:51 AM
Jenna, sorry you had to go through that. Those folks sound like a bunch of selfish fools. They are the type that can easily be brushed off because you realize how ignorant they are, but the sad thing is, they will always exist.
Now on a happy note: Go work on that Baby! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

JennaGlatzer
03-11-2006, 05:53 AM
:ROFL: Rob and truman, I like the way you think...

Thanks for the advice, ladies! I think I'm already doing everything you've suggested except the protein thing-- didn't know about that. Anything to stave off morning sickness sounds good to me, though. That's my one major phobia.

I have already bought a bazillion pregnancy tests and ovulation predictor tests from eBay ( :D )... I get to test in 6 days if you-know-who doesn't show up.

Terri, that is so sad. After I made the comment about "people who plan to smoke during pregnancy don't deserve to get pregnant" (that's what really riled them up), one woman said, "Well, then it's a good thing you're not in charge of who gets pregnant!" and I thought to myself, "No, it's a tragedy that I'm not in charge." And I thought of situations just like the one you described. No baby should have to suffer because of a mother's bad habits.

And I really need to remember that there aren't many message boards filled with the kind of intelligent, caring people we have here.

Stew21
03-11-2006, 05:54 AM
I know that board!! I have two young boys and I went to a PG board/birth club for both of them...ugh, its horrible...sorry you had to go through that! ((hugs))

Trish

Dawno
03-11-2006, 06:06 AM
Sue, Colleen, and Lula's moms must have smoked, drank and abused diet pills while they were pregnant with those three - it's the only thing I can think of to explain how they were born with out a shred of common sense.

I smoke now but I never smoked while pregnant and never in the house while the kids were growing up. Now that they're gone, I occasionally smoke in my home office - and I take great pains to limit the amount of second hand smoke that could escape from all my fans, filters and the open patio door - even on very cold nights. And that's because I live with a non-smoker and a cat!

You're gonna be a great mom, Jenna.

Shwebb
03-11-2006, 06:16 AM
Jenna, I went through eight years of infertility before conceiving, and it is heartbreaking to see these people take parenthood for granted. I remember dealing with feelings like "I must not be good enough to be a parent, or I would be one . . . " and then I would remember seeing a program on TV that showed an HIV-positive woman addicted to drugs leave the hospital AMA without her baby. She left a note saying her sister would take it. (Her sister had two or three other children of hers.) The woman wouldn't agree to birth control or anything. I think she saw the baby once after she was born.

I'm proud of you for pushing through your fears and your nicotine addiction, girl.

GO, JenNA! GO, JenNA!

Carole
03-11-2006, 06:19 AM
I am just shocked. OMG what idiots. You know, my sister smoked while pregnant with my niece. She cut back - a lot. I mean, down to one or two cigarettes a day, but my niece was still a very low birthweight baby. She also has had respiratory problems her whole life, and she is 22 now.

Jean Marie
03-11-2006, 06:27 AM
Um, Jenna, a lot of people are dweebs. Present company excluded http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I may not know too much, having gone to Catholic school and all. But I'm pretty sure you're not gonna get pregnant if you're posting here http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

William Haskins
03-11-2006, 06:29 AM
evolution at work, folks.

astonwest
03-11-2006, 06:42 AM
Just wait...it gets even better the farther they move along in their children's lives...

I especially enjoy my SIL, who considers her 8 year old capable of making ALL of his own decisions...

Like William said, evolution at work...

Oh, and Jenna...
4 times a day.
7 days a week.
Can't miss...so I've heard at least...

kikazaru
03-11-2006, 07:16 AM
I'm sorry you had such a negative experience - there are an awful lot of wilfully ignorant people in this world.

My tip for you. Make sure that your husband is not taking hot showers or baths and to switch to boxers til you can make your happy announcement. Heat is detrimental to sperm production.

reph
03-11-2006, 07:22 AM
4 times a day.
7 days a week.
Can't miss...so I've heard at least...
Not so. Sperm count declines if a man ejaculates that often. It also declines if he doesn't ejaculate often enough.

The researcher Marian Diamond went to Nairobi and learned that when women in Nairobi find out they're pregnant, they go on a low-protein diet because they want a small baby for an easier delivery. Arrgh!

Jenna, about morning sickness, eating ginger or drinking ginger ale will combat nausea.

William Haskins
03-11-2006, 07:23 AM
Heat is detrimental to sperm production.

that's strange. works for me every time.

eldragon
03-11-2006, 07:28 AM
Kudos for telling them how it is. Unfortunately, they do not want to hear the truth if it means they have to quit smoking.


I was a Vegas Cocktail Server for over ten years, and once, I served a woman screwdrivers most of the evening. After several hours of throwing them back, she stood up and rubbed her pregnant belly and said "I'm getting the vitamin C. I need tonight!" I was so appalled, not only by the fact that she had drank so much vodka, but that I served it to her. I immediately started giving her plain O.J. She moved to another section, but I told all the other waitresses what the deal was, and she was not getting any more vodka on our watch. Unfortunately, we couldn't follow her home or to the next casino.

But it goes to show how absolutely selfish and stupid some women are when they are carrying a tiny, developing baby inside their body, and choose to shower it with hard liquor and suffocate it with cigarette smoke.

If I ever realized a woman was pregnant, and she ordered beer, I would get two bottles; a non-alcoholic and whatever she ordered. I'd dump the contents of the regular beer and fill the bottle with O'Douls.


Hang in there, Jenna. As a mother of two girls, ages 17 & 8, I can tell you that, at least for me, getting pregnant was the easiest part of being a mother. It's a tough job if you do it right and nobody should attempt to do it otherwise.

kikazaru
03-11-2006, 07:31 AM
that's strange. works for me every time.

Ha! But have you checked to see their lack of motility under a microscope? Poor little things lose all their "swim" in heat.

William Haskins
03-11-2006, 07:34 AM
actually yes. i keep a box of slides by the bed. they look tired, but not altogether unhappy.

rtilryarms
03-11-2006, 07:42 AM
Jeepers. I am so...

...embarassed. This is why you used me? For cheap practice?
Didn't the last, what? 100 hours mean anything to you?

kikazaru
03-11-2006, 07:42 AM
LOL!

Re post 35. That's good. Hobbies are very beneficial for relieving stress - and some more than others! ;)

Perks
03-11-2006, 07:43 AM
If I ever realized a woman was pregnant, and she ordered beer, I would get two bottles; a non-alcoholic and whatever she ordered. I'd dump the contents of the regular beer and fill the bottle with O'Douls.




Risking a flame here, but many women crave beer during pregnancy. Beer is high in B-vitamins. A single beer (just one!!!) sipped with food if desired shouldn't present a problem. And towards the end, exhausted from long bouts of Braxton/Hicks contractions, half a glass of red wine in a warm bath was bliss.

A general rule of thumb - if it's good for the mother, it's good for the baby.

Beer and wine in very strict moderation, can be healthy and soothing during pregnancy. Of course, there is no healthy number of cigs.

AdamH
03-11-2006, 07:51 AM
actually yes. i keep a box of slides by the bed. they look tired, but not altogether unhappy.

Speaking of which, can I have my box of slides back now, William?

tjwriter
03-11-2006, 07:54 AM
So that's why I craved beer! I just satisfied it by stealing a sip from my bro's buddy during card night.

My best cure for morning sickness was to eat small meals frequently so that my stomach was never completely empty. Of course, that didn't affect the response my body gave because I worked in a restaurant. Ugh.

It was my third cycle before we conceived, and the month we conceived was the month that I thought maybe I had issues, and gave up hope for the time-being. Stress and worry about conceiving seem to affect the ability to do so. There are many studies attesting to the fact that stress is very bad for a pregnancy.

So, good luck and be sure to relax and enjoy yourself!

TJ, who often feels like a know-it-all but likes to share information

akelsey333
03-11-2006, 08:08 AM
Keep in mind that I quit smoking the instant we started TTC, and it's still hard for me-- but I'm not going to mess up!)



Jenna, congrats on giving up smoking http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoteClap.gif I know how hard it can be to quit! And best of luck on conceiving ~

mdin
03-11-2006, 08:12 AM
I don't know if you post on the same forum as my wife (ovusoft forum--it's absolutely huge. 3.5 million posts last time I looked at it.), but she's shown me some topics on her forum that make the tiffs over here look like a game of duck duck goose.

The most entertaining ones are regarding immunizations. Or breastfeeding in public. Or naming your kids bizarre things.

Or the best one: circumcision.

madderblue
03-11-2006, 08:29 AM
:ROFL: Rob and truman, I like the way you think...

Thanks for the advice, ladies! I think I'm already doing everything you've suggested except the protein thing-- didn't know about that. Anything to stave off morning sickness sounds good to me, though. That's my one major phobia.

.

And turkey basters...you might want to wait a bit before you try those. I once heard a fairly persuasive argument on the effectiveness of turkey basters...;)

Lantern Jack
03-11-2006, 10:03 AM
Smoking is an incorrigible habit under any circumstances. Fretting about a defenseless, womb-bound tot's virgin lungs seared by vile fumes? What about the 8 year old whose non-smoking parents are made to sit in the smoking section because the Zone of Purification is filled? And said 8 year old turns greener than when he took 25 consecutive turns on the tilt-a-whirl and nearly passes out (yes, I'm referencing myself in this example)? Or the two year old whose parents, both chain-smoking, bend over to secure him in his stroller (pram to you English folk), making sure he's safe and snug, but never minding the thousands of carcinogens they're huffing into his tender air sacks (not me this time)? Smoking, in my most unhumble opinion, is never right under any circumstances, if a person truly has a child's best interests at heart (I'm speaking in general here, not singling anyone out).

"Oh, I choose to smoke outside."

Uh-huh. So, the kid can't see you lighting up through the window? Don't you know, if you hide adult activities from a kid, it just makes them that much more curious? Kids are infinitely more likely to smoke, period, if their parents are smokers, no matter where they do it.

"Well, we've all gotta die of something."

Yes! Bravo! I'd applaud your nihilistic outlook if every single fruitcake who uttered this phrase wasn't a Bible-pounding puritan. Hell, I knew five different pastors, when I lived down in Tennessee, who considered it reprehensible to smoke. They chewed.

And the notion of a non-smoking section is a laugh riot. You think chemicals dissipate once they venture beyond a smoker's personal space?

An oft-repeated example from the greatest anti-smoking doc ever, The Last Cigarette: The nicotine in one cigarette is extracted and injected into the ear of a plump rabbit. Inside of five minutes, brer rabbit's ears turn purple and start to rot off. Inside of 12, he's twitching. In a quarter of an hour, he's gone.

Smoking is a ferociously selfish habit. An editor at my college newspaper, worked for a year in the cramped quarters the college afforded us. Then we moved up to the third floor, to vast, vast spaces, the biggest set of rooms offered a student organization. And it was almost blown because half the staff---these clean, upstanding kids---smoked their asses off, left butts everywhere. The janitorial staff begged them, for three patient months, not to leave their heaps of teetering butts piled everywhere. Fire hazard. Deaf ears these entreaties fell on. They reported us. We almost lost our hard-battled-for offices. And the battlers were the smokers. And they kept on smoking! Even then! Rather than traipse down the three flights necessary to bring them out into somewhat-fresh, and legal, air. Well, I suppose their pathetic, smoker lungs couldn't handle the trip. Still, selfishness.

Again, I worked at a diner for over two years and saw family after family trundle their brood into the smoking section, nurse the 50-cent, free-refill coffee deal for three hours, billowing pack after poisonous pack into these kids' faces, scorching their nostril passageways, withering capillaries, and pretty much condemning these kids to a mini-hell of smoke and fire and cancerous demise.

Yes, many mothers declare war on their womb fruit with their cigarettes and that is wicked, wicked, WICKED! But, for Christ's sake, it doesn't end there. Not until that hideous habit, the whole bloody industry, is stamped out.

Personally, I loath smoking, and, with few exceptions, generally carve a wide berth around people who do it (I hold my breath whenever I walk into an office building, where the chimney stacks tend to congregate). I don't understand it, I don't care for it, and I just, just don't. Like. It.

Shadow_Ferret
03-11-2006, 10:09 AM
I smoked while we tried to conceive our first child. He is a mellow, well-behaved child.

I quit smoking while my wife was pregnant with first child.

Our second child is completely the opposite. A holy terror. Hyperactive.

I should have smoked during that conception too.


A friend of my wife's had just gotten married and was trying to concieve. She said she heard that when you smoke you have a risk of a low birth weight baby. This is a woman who is obscessed with her looks. She said she was going to smoke on purpose during her pregnancy so she'd have a low birthweight baby and not get stretch marks.

paprikapink
03-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Anyway.
So I started thinking that the world is screwed up because we really do live in a giant community of selfish idiots who are being taught that whatever feels good is fine and nothing should be hard, and everything is "good enough," and you should always come first. Those people pass those values onto their children, who grow up to feel entitled and selfish. I'm living in a world where people will fight to defend their right to smoke while pregnant, and other people will jump in to tell me not to judge them!

Iyiyiyiyi.

While it's true that the world does include dopes like the gals you had this exchange with, all these AW folks are here too. And we're bigger and badder.

And... have you ever noticed how sometimes during an argument or disagreement, especially with someone you don't really know, you just stick stick stick to whatever position you started with at the beginning of the argument (or maybe better to say notice how they stick to their position)? And then later, when the argument's over and all parties have dispersed, you can safely do exactly what you were arguing against? Sometimes it even feels like you thought of it yourself and it's just an odd coincidence that it's exactly what that other dweeb was saying.

If, after her exchange with you, Jenna, even one of those ladies has that experience and changes her mind about smoking being okay, and I'll bet at least one will, you've done a great thing.

astonwest
03-11-2006, 04:59 PM
Or the best one: circumcision.
Knowing how much fun everyone in the family had with my brother and his wife and their decision in this matter, I can imagine...

eldragon
03-11-2006, 05:00 PM
Risking a flame here, but many women crave beer during pregnancy. Beer is high in B-vitamins. A single beer (just one!!!) sipped with food if desired shouldn't present a problem. And towards the end, exhausted from long bouts of Braxton/Hicks contractions, half a glass of red wine in a warm bath was bliss.

A general rule of thumb - if it's good for the mother, it's good for the baby.

Beer and wine in very strict moderation, can be healthy and soothing during pregnancy. Of course, there is no healthy number of cigs.

Sure, but I'm talking about relaxing at home with a glass or wine or a beer. I"m talking about ordering them in a busy casino. I didn't serve any food, either.


And if she was having Braxton/Hicks contractions, she probably wouldn't have been sitting at my blackjack table in the late hours of the evening, and she certainly wasn't surrounded by bath water.

eldragon
03-11-2006, 05:04 PM
Just a short note on low birthweight babies: My first pregnancy, I was 25; never smoked a day in my life, and I have never been much of a drinker, either. I carried the baby to term and she weighed 4.3 ounces. She wasn't healthy, either. She stayed in Neonatal for 7 days, was diagnosed with a heart problem she saw specialists for years with, and within 6 months, had meningiitis, tubes in her ears and developed severe asthma, which at age 17, she still has.

My point is that, once, during a pediatrician's visit, I looked at her file and the notes on the side were "mother denies smoking or doing other drugs while pregnant." That still makes me mad.

dahmnait
03-11-2006, 05:19 PM
My point is that, once, during a pediatrician's visit, I looked at her file and the notes on the side were "mother denies smoking or doing other drugs while pregnant." That still makes me mad.I had a similar experience where it was written all over the ER sheet, "Patient denies..." When I complained about it, I found out that is the way the doctors/hospitals have to record it. I just wish they would change the wording to make it sound less like an accusation.

SC Harrison
03-11-2006, 05:38 PM
actually yes. i keep a box of slides by the bed. they look tired, but not altogether unhappy.

Mine have become so accustomed to being exposed to the cold dry air they have taken to wearing tiny little parkas whenever they are called into action. The phrase, "No need to get excited; I'm sure it's just another drill." is common and (almost) always accurate.

rekirts
03-11-2006, 06:36 PM
Beer and wine in very strict moderation, can be healthy and soothing during pregnancy. Of course, there is no healthy number of cigs. Some health experts feel there is no healthy amount of alcohol for a pregnant woman either, and even the ones who don't advocate restricting alcohol completely admit they don't know how much is too much. People react to things differently. It varies from woman to woman. Why would anyone want to take that chance?

kikazaru
03-11-2006, 06:56 PM
Yep I wouldn't chance it either. Although my hospital does stock beer in the maternity floor's fridge. Apparently it helps to bring on lactation. I never availed myself of the opportunity because beer makes me pee. After delivering a child only slightly smaller than a baby hippo, I really, really, didn't want to do that more than necessary.

As a side note, there have been times in history where the majority of the population drank ale - even for breakfast because the water was unsafe. I wonder how prevalent FAS was then. Not to mention the fact that homes were so smokey, that they would put a chain smoker to shame.

dahmnait
03-11-2006, 07:14 PM
As a side note, there have been times in history where the majority of the population drank ale - even for breakfast because the water was unsafe. I wonder how prevalent FAS was then. Not to mention the fact that homes were so smokey, that they would put a chain smoker to shame.Ah yes, but then life expectancy was 30 - 40 years too.

Elincoln
03-11-2006, 07:25 PM
Jenna, I'm so sorry. Those Ditzs don't know the first thing about health and what their children need. Great Mothers--HA!

If their child comes out healthy, I don't want to think about what their mental state will be down the road when mommy gets diagnosed with lung cancer and refuses to give it up because they've been smoking "since before you were born". (Exactly what happened to me and my sisters) They think it's not hurting the kids, but their wrong. Sooner or later it will.

I'm so happy to hear you gave it up, and I realize that it's tough. It will probably get worst until you realize there's two lines instead of one. Don't give up. If you feel the need to grab a cigarette, hop online and gripe to us. We don't mind being whipping boys and girls for a good cause. :whip:

As for conceiving, it took us about two years combined (first attempt ended in miscarriage). It wasn't till we stopped 'trying' and started to relax that the second pregnancy happened, and then it was a shaky ordeal till she came out pre-mature. But after all that, she's now a healthy, beautiful, active, (and very smart, I've been told repeatedly) 3 year old. My sister's friend had been trying for 10 years, using every medical procedure imagined, and even some unorthodox methods. When they finally decided to rest for a few months, she went to the doctor with leg cramps and learned she was four weeks pregnant!

So relax and try to enjoy yourself.

And Reph is right about the ginger for morning sickness. That and lime sorbet.

Gehanna
03-11-2006, 07:55 PM
Rationalization of ignorant action abounds among the mightily stupid who's selfish desires function to fuel their self significance.

Old Hack
03-11-2006, 09:28 PM
Ahhh, Jenna, you did a good thing. Few have the courage to stand up and say what everyone else is thinking. I admire you greatly.

We never had any trouble conceiving: I barely had to do more than walk past David in the hallway to get pregnant. Our trouble came in keeping them inside, where they belonged, for long enough. Out of seven pregnancies we've now got our two lovely boys who fill us both with joy (even when they go on night-long vomit-fests, like Freddy did last night). And both of them were early-ish.

Having had one of my sons die in my arms from being born so premature he could not breathe (he was born at 21 weeks), I don't know how anyone could do anything to endanger the lives of their babies. Watching him struggle for breath for the twenty minutes or so that he was alive remains my most dreadful memory, and one of my most treasured--after all, it was the only time I ever got to spend with him.

A few days before my first son was born, another baby was born on the ward to a mother who smoked. That little baby was born at 35 weeks, and didn't make it: she was tiny, and weak, and simply faded away over a week. My son was born soon after, also at 35 weeks: he weighed 5 1/2 pounds, and put on weight like a little porker once he worked out how to feed (he's now ten, and tall for his age--a gorgeous boy). I can still remember how the mother of that poor little girl wept when her baby died. I don't suppose she ever felt that smoking was worth the price she paid for it, and if you manage to save anyone from that dreadful grief by saying your piece, then you're a hero. No two ways about it.

Stew21
03-11-2006, 09:40 PM
just a word of encouragement: you say you quit smoking ttc. I think that is wonderful. I was a smoker before my pregnancies. I quit for them. And I just want to tell you that you can do it too! (and I had trouble - I'm an addictive personality and I wasn't sure how I would be able to do it, but I did!) When you know that it isn't for yourself - that it is for the health of a child - it is SO worth quitting. (unfortunately about a year ago I started again, but I'm working on that now.)
You can do it - and will for all the right reasons - best of luck ttc!
And again, sorry the ultra-hormonal "baby boards" were not friendlier to you...I gained a couple of wonderful friendships from mine - and quickly got rid of the rest of them - they can be mean, petty, and downright vicious! In fact, one of the the lovely ladies there told me it was ridiculous of me to think I could be a mother, have a full time job (she's SAHM), AND write a novel...what could I possibly be thinking???

Just wanted to tell you You can do it! (and you did the right thing telling them how wrong they are.)

Trish

Kida Adelyne
03-11-2006, 09:40 PM
Good for you Jenna. You'll make a great Mom! :Hug2:

-Ally

roach
03-11-2006, 09:57 PM
Just want to say good for you Jenna! There's not much you can do with someone who suffers from entitlmentism. Just take comfort in the fact that you spoke the truth that others were unwilling to admit and find another, more supportive, place for information.

And good luck! We weren't trying to conceive, had decided it would be another few years before we had children (if ever) when I got pregnant. Of course that was the universe getting me back for making one too many jokes about parenthood. The month I conceived I bought a little button that read "Don't presume I'm a breeder." That, aparently, was enough to tip the scales because despite being on the pill I ended up pregnant. I might still have the button somewhere if you'd like me to send it over. You know, for the cause? :D

Kevin Yarbrough
03-11-2006, 11:43 PM
Good for you Jenna and if you need a deposit I will be more than happy to give you one;) .

I know what you are going through though. With our first child it took us a long time to conceive him. Fertility drugs was the only way and even this was after a long time. My wife and I both stopped smoking and he was born healthy, 9# 4 oz. but has High Functioning Autism. My youngest was an accident and we both stopped smoking, again, and he was healthy but he also has some mental problems akin to Autism but he has not been diagnosed yet.

What I'm saying is that there are so many problems that kids can be born with now a days why would you want to add on to that?

I wish you and your husband luck and just know that if he gets to tired you have many people on this board that will fill in for him until he recoups.:tongue

Maryn
03-12-2006, 01:00 AM
I've thought about this, and thought about it some more, and I'm not going to be popular when I voice some of those thoughts, so I thought about that, too...

First off, as a former smoker, good for you! It's damned hard. It's been many years since I smoked, and I still miss it, at times strongly.

Second, people are morons who put themselves and helpless innocents at risk every freakin' day, and it's not only that they're stupid, they're also selfish and weak. (C'mon, if we look in the mirror hard enough, we can all see traces of that in ourselves. What separates us is that we really, really try not to let that part out.) Telling people they are weak and selfish morons does not make them less so, it makes them angry.

Third, it appears that many of the people in this discussion do not know how to voice their opinions without seeming judgmental about the others whose opinions don't match. I regret to say that I can understand those who bristled at Jenna's words, and not because she's wrong.

Statements like "Don't be dumb" and "I don't think you deserve to get pregnant if you plan to smoke while you're pregnant" are judgmental and sure to escalate the existing discord. The sarcasm of likening smoking while pregnant to hitting one's belly with a hammer is certain to worsen it.

Maybe these charming ladies are incapable of tact and tolerance of weakness in others, but I know Jenna is and I'm disappointed not to see it exercised.

Fourth, I don't know this particular website, but if somebody's paying for server space and requiring registration (even if it's free), I daresay they would not be welcoming of members who say "fu$k you" and "I hope you die" to other members. If there's an owner to contact, I'd do it--with transcripts or links in hand.

Fifth and last, this sounds like a terrible forum. Surely there are others. Find 'em.

Maryn, who wasn't all that popular before posting this...

eldragon
03-12-2006, 01:08 AM
The sarcasm of likening smoking while pregnant to hitting one's belly with a hammer is certain to worsen it.


It's not as abrupt as being hit with a hammer, but suffocating isn't nice, either.

The point is that we have the education now to see what smoking does to people. My parentswere both chain smokers. Especially my dad, who smoked 4 or 5 packs of day for 40 or more years.


He died at age 60 of throat cancer. He had quit smoking 1 1/2 years earlier.

My mother quit when he did, and now, cannot tolerate second hand smoke, to the point of refusing to eat in a restaurant that doesn't have a non smoking section.

I see her point, but its very hypocritical. My entire childhood, I was choking for air. My parents chain smoked in the car with the windows rolled up, with 3 kids in the backseat, on every outing and family vacation we ever had.

There was no "Dad, mom, please roll down the window," back then. It was shut up and breathe that crap.


I often had to pull my shirt over my mouth to try to get some air, to try to filter the smoke. It was terrible.

I am 42 and have never smoked a cigarette in my life. It's surely because I got tired of breathing theirs.

SC Harrison
03-12-2006, 01:23 AM
Statements like "Don't be dumb" and "I don't think you deserve to get pregnant if you plan to smoke while you're pregnant" are judgmental and sure to escalate the existing discord. The sarcasm of likening smoking while pregnant to hitting one's belly with a hammer is certain to worsen it.



It probably will worsen the situation, angering the smoking mothers-to-be to the point where they see red and lose what little good judgment they possess. But...after a few days, when they've cooled off a little, and they're lying in bed trying to get to sleep, that little voice in their head they've been ignoring just might get loud enough to be heard.

Maryn
03-12-2006, 02:25 AM
One would surely hope so. Every baby deserves the healthiest start its mom and dad are able to give it. But I think if it were me I might have phrased my disagreement very differently.

Of course, that's daydream-me, the one who always says the right thing. She'll also quite attractive, wise for her years, and beloved by all.

Maryn, not much like that

JennaGlatzer
03-12-2006, 03:06 AM
Maryn, I :heart: you, and please feel free to express whatever you feel. I was definitely harsh with those women. It would have been an entirely different conversation if I saw even a glimmer of a conscience among the three of them, but there wasn't. I knew I was being harsh, and I was mostly doing so to counteract all the pat-on-the-head "It's okay" messages they were getting. So many people telling them that smoking is an addiction, and some people just can't quit, and they were sure that didn't mean they wouldn't be great moms, etc. It made me furious.

Oh, and it's not that same board, Nav. This one's a medium size paid membership site.

MrAlex'sMommy
03-12-2006, 03:50 AM
Jenna, I just wanted to show my support. My husband and I are going to start ttc #2 in a couple of months, and I joined a group just to get to know some other women who were obsessive with cycles, charting, and all that good stuff. While I was looking at different forums, though, I was shocked to find a lot of sentiments like the ones you posted. It can be frustrating, to say the least. Another one that gets me is the teenage girls who post on the ttc boards with, "I think I'm pregnant. Can anyone tell me if I am? If I am pregnant, I'm getting an abortion."

While it's completely their decision to do so (and I'm not trying to start another row over abortion), it just seems a little tacky to post questions like this on a board where women are actively trying to get pregnant. Of course, it provokes regular board members, who are frustrated over their inability to get pregnant easily.

Well, I wish you the best of luck in getting pregnant. I'm sending some baby dust your way, and when the time comes, some sticky dust. Good luck!! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Susie
03-12-2006, 04:02 AM
Much good fortune, Jenna. You'd make the best mom. Don't let others who aren't thinking right stress you out. :Hug2:

ChunkyC
03-12-2006, 04:05 AM
Some health experts feel there is no healthy amount of alcohol for a pregnant woman either, and even the ones who don't advocate restricting alcohol completely admit they don't know how much is too much. People react to things differently. It varies from woman to woman. Why would anyone want to take that chance?
Indeed. The only way to ensure victory at Russian Roulette is not to play.

Jenna, I don't blame you for getting upset with those ... girls. Maybe you used harsh words, but what were they compared to the damage they were and are doing to their unborn children? If I see someone kicking a dog, I'm not going to worry about overly-confrontational word choices, I'm going to tell the *sshole to stop or I'll kick him in the nuts so hard they'll end up as his earrings.

On that genital note ... good luck making a baby!

Jean Marie
03-12-2006, 04:14 AM
Gee, I'll just echo what Chunky said http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Again, you're not gonna get pregnant, Jenna, if you keep posting. It doesn't work that way. I posted yesterday that even w/ being Catholic, I know these things. Really. Apparently it bears repeating.

JennaGlatzer
03-12-2006, 04:22 AM
Too late this cycle... plus he's at work!

P.S. Kev, that was very kind of you to offer to be Anthony's understudy. :D

Yeshanu
03-12-2006, 04:25 AM
I'm another one of those women who only had to look at her husband to get pregnant, and I've never smoked, so I can't chime in from that angle.

I can tell you that I'm sitting here coughing right now, as I have coughed for six or more weeks every year since I was young, with uncontrolled asthma, the result of breathing in second-hand smoke for nineteen years. I can tell you about the weekly migraines that calmed down as soon as I moved out of a smoke-filled environment.

I was a normal birth-weight baby, and appeared healthy at birth, but I've got life-long health problems because my parents smoked when I was younger.

Both of them quit many years ago, when my dad caught pneumonia and was told to quit or he'd die. I'm very glad to say that the benefits of quitting start in as little as twenty-four hours after your last cigarette, and will continue for as long as you are not smoking.

Best of luck to both of you, Jenna. As someone above me (who has a very wise mom herself ;) ) said, "You'll make a great mother!"

Jean Marie
03-12-2006, 04:33 AM
Ok, so you're off the hook http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif You were scaring me there for a second.

Thank goodness you did quit smoking, Jenna. That's a tough one. I quit 14 years ago-very hard to do. You'll be a wonderful mom http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Just amazing how selfless people are on this board. I mean, look around at all this generosity. Where else would you find folks like Kevin offering to help you get pregnant?

And everyone's always whining about how no one ever offers to help anymore. Well, they've obviously never posted on AW...

Yeshanu
03-12-2006, 04:35 AM
Just amazing how selfless people are on this board. I mean, look around at all this generosity. Where else would you find folks like Kevin offering to help you get pregnant?

And everyone's always whining about how no one ever offers to help anymore. Well, they've obviously never posted on AW... :ROFL:

Will one of you helpful people help me clean the Coke of my monitor?


Again...

rhymegirl
03-12-2006, 04:38 AM
I'm another one of those women who only had to look at her husband to get pregnant...

Me too. After a while I had to get sunglasses.

Jean Marie
03-12-2006, 04:44 AM
Me too. After a while I had to get sunglasses.
Reflective?/Mirrored?

Kevin Yarbrough
03-12-2006, 07:30 AM
:ROFL:

Will one of you helpful people help me clean the Coke of my monitor?


Again...

Do I have to be clothed?

Jenna, I only offered to be the understudy because I have some super sperm and they all know how to swim and have a great since of direction. No stopping at gas stations along the way for those little guys. They also seem to come prepared to move in, pick axe, jack hammer, dynamite, whatever it takes to get in. If you want a boy then I'm the man since that seems to be all my family can make. Let me know if you need help.;)

Jean, yeah I will offer my assistance to a lady in need. If any lady her wants a baby just PM me. I'm a nice guy and got more than enough love to spread around.:tongue

WVWriterGirl
03-12-2006, 11:13 AM
Ok, so I've thought about it, and yep, I'm gonna post it.

I smoked while pregnant. It's not something I'm terribly proud of, or would advocate, or would defend. I did it because of bad advice from a bad doctor ("You have gestational diabetes, make big baby. It ok you smoke. Just switch ultra-light!")

The tyke was born with a heart murmur, fluid-filled lungs, and exceptionally low sugar - he was in a PICU for five days after birth. Thank goodness all is normal now - heart's ok, lungs clear and sugar is regulated - and thank goodness none of it was caused by the smoking (according to doctors and nurses at big REALLY good hospital he was transferred to). They told me, my pediatrician told me, and my regular physician now has told me that we are extremely lucky that the tyke is as healthy as he is.

We managed to dodge the bullet, but I would never recommend that anyone attempt it. What those females (they're certainly not ladies, and in my book don't even merit girls) said were reprehensible - we tried for three years to get pregnant, and I felt guilty every time I had a smoke. The doctor told me that between the stress of quitting and the diabetes, I'd do more harm to him by quitting than by continuing to smoke. I know now he was wrong, and regret listening to that moron.

Good luck, Jenna - the fact that you're willing to take a stand before your tyke is even concieved lets us all know that you'll be a wonderful mommy!

Celia Cyanide
03-13-2006, 07:19 AM
Statements like "Don't be dumb" and "I don't think you deserve to get pregnant if you plan to smoke while you're pregnant" are judgmental and sure to escalate the existing discord. The sarcasm of likening smoking while pregnant to hitting one's belly with a hammer is certain to worsen it.

Maybe these charming ladies are incapable of tact and tolerance of weakness in others, but I know Jenna is and I'm disappointed not to see it exercised.

Maybe I'm being judgemental, but I don't really have any sympathy for someone who is actively trying to have a baby and won't even try to give up smoking. If you really don't want to give it up, then don't get pregnant. It's not like it's mandatory. (and yes, I know that accidents do happen, but we are talking about women who are trying to conceive.) If you think you're stressed out now, wait till the baby is born!

I say this as someone who just quit smoking after 11 years, and I still adore the smell and feel of it.

DamaNegra
03-13-2006, 08:39 AM
Neither my mom nor my dad have ever smoked. My mom concieved me while on birth-controll pills, and I was a healthy baby. Still am.

On the other hand, and uncle and aunt both were big smokers. My aunt got pregnant and miscarried. During her second pregnancy, she was able to give birth, but the baby was very fragile. He's all right now, but he did scare us.

Obviously, there is some point here to be made. I recieve so much second-hand smoke it's be healthier for me to starts smoking, really. Needless to say, my health worsens when I'm in contact with second hand smoke. If that is the effect on a 16 (almost 17) year old, I don't want to know what can happen to an unborn baby.

aruna
03-13-2006, 11:50 AM
It really, really bothers me to see pregnant women smoking, and smokers near to children. This is clearly child abuse. Yet I don't think I'd ever say this aloud to anyone, especially nt strangers, and I admire those who can.

Unfortunately, my son smokes. He's 20, but he has been smoking (secretly at first) since he was about 12. All the kids were doing it at his school. He desperately wants to stop but can't. It hurts me almost physically to see him smoking, and to think of al that poison he's been taking in in those young years. My daughter, at a different, private school, says that she's the only one of all her friends who has never smoked. Of course it's strictly forbidden but that's the whole fun of it.
I smoked for a few months when I was about 17. I had to force myself at first, it was so horrible. but "everyone" was doing it. I stopped immediately after I started practicing Yoga.

rhymegirl
03-13-2006, 03:55 PM
If you think you're stressed out now, wait till the baby is born!

What an excellent point! That's what I said to my husband when I was telling him about this thread. Do these women think taking care of a newborn is gonna be stress-free? Hahahaha! The pregnancy part is the easy part. They better figure out a healthy way to de-stress now. I recommend deep breathing, yoga, moderate exercise, meditation--anything relaxing other than cigarettes or booze.

Maryn
03-13-2006, 06:52 PM
We all agree that pregnant women, in a perfect world, do not smoke. (And later, when and if they start again, they only smoke outside, away from others.)

How much paternalism is appropriate when the negative consequence is a possibility, not a certainty? Like someone said early in this thread, before so many risk factors were identified, pregnant women smoked and drank and took whatever medications they needed, and had healthy babies. Many of those babies are us.

Consider...

Gestational diabetes is worsened by the mother-to-be’s overweight. Is it right to refuse to serve the overweight pregnant woman the large fries she ordered, or the triple-scoop ice cream cone?

What’s to be done about the pregnant woman who helps herself to a cracker spread with soft cheese, then a little pâté, and--gasp!--a glass of wine?

Do we remove cats from the households of pregnant women who can’t prove someone else will change the litterbox for nine months? (Whose house do we drop them off at?)

Handling raw meats and poultry may introduce bacteria which cross the placenta with potentially disastrous results. Whose responsibility is it to prepare these foods for the pregnant woman’s consumption?

Paternalism can be complex, with no clear ‘right’ answers. Issues like these are at the core of the study of Ethics (within the Philosophy field), where books like “The Ethics of Legal Coercion” examine whether freedom should include the right to make bad choices which place others at risk but in no certain harm.

Maryn, not used to playing devil's advocate

NeuroFizz
03-13-2006, 08:38 PM
A major component of cigarette smoke is carbon monoxide (yeah, the thing in auto exhausts). Carbon monoxide (CO) has an affinity for oxygen that is 200 times greater than that of hemoglobin. So, when CO is present in the bloodstream, guess which loads with oxygen most easily--hemoglobin or CO? That's only the first part of the story. Here's the flipside. The higher affinity of CO not only means oxygen will bind easier to it than to hemoglobin, but once bound, it will not come off very easily (it's held more tightly). Hemoglobin is a wonderous molecule that has an affinity shift - so it favors binding oxygen in the lungs and dumping it in the tissues. CO doesn't do this--it holds oxygen tightly, so it can't unload and to go the tissues where it is needed.

So, ask these women if they'd go out and take hits off an auto exhaust while pregnant. If they say no, ask them what's the difference?

Celia Cyanide
03-13-2006, 08:56 PM
How much paternalism is appropriate when the negative consequence is a possibility, not a certainty? Like someone said early in this thread, before so many risk factors were identified, pregnant women smoked and drank and took whatever medications they needed, and had healthy babies. Many of those babies are us.

The negative consequences are not a certainty, yes. But the same could be said for drunk driving. You don't know if you will hit anyone. That doesn't make it okay. The negative consequences might not be certain, but what is certain is that they are 100% preventable.

I do think a pregnant woman who chooses to become pregnant should be responsible for taking care of herself, as far as everything she puts into her body. In your case, WVWritergirl, I can't hold you responsible, because your doctor gave you bad information. It's his responsibility to give his patients information they can trust. But if a woman knows she's not supposed to consume something while pregnant, be it beer, cigarettes, or soft cheeses, she shouldn't do it.

That's why I don't want to have a baby. I don't want to give up brie, or scooby snacks, or concerts where people might be smoking. If you really can't give up these things, don't get pregnant. It's just like anything else. If you want to get a novel published, you have to go through the stress of rewriting and submitting and getting rejected. If you're not willing to do that, then don't. If you really want to be a mom, but you don't want to give up smoking for 9 months, then adopt.

Christine N.
03-13-2006, 09:30 PM
I don't have anything to add, except that I feel for you, Jenna. Took hubby and I ten months to conceive Ryan. I tried Robitussin, charting, propping up my hips - everything. I was at the end of my rope. I finally had an HSG test (kind of cleaned everything out - many concieve within three months of the test) and I bought a Fertility Monitor. Which was expensive, but what I ended up with was priceless :)

Cheryll
03-14-2006, 01:24 AM
A friend of my wife's had just gotten married and was trying to concieve. She said she heard that when you smoke you have a risk of a low birth weight baby. This is a woman who is obscessed with her looks. She said she was going to smoke on purpose during her pregnancy so she'd have a low birthweight baby and not get stretch marks.

Wow. I am at a complete loss for words.

Jenna: Good for you for sticking to your guns and standing up for what you believe in. And all the best to you and the hubster as you try to conceive.

Happy "creating"! ;)

Cheryll

astonwest
03-14-2006, 03:57 AM
Just liken that board to the majority of (not all, of course) writer's boards out there...

A large number of folks that have no clue trying to convince everyone else they know what they're talking about...

DamaNegra
03-14-2006, 04:14 AM
The death sticks should be taxed into oblivion.

As I learned on my economy classes, cigarettes are the best produce to tax. No matter how heavily you tax them, the addiction ensures someone will keep on buying the damned things. Truth is, they are already heavily taxed.

An interesting fact:

- After you quit smoking, it takes at least 10 years for your body to get completely clean from all the toxins you've put into it.

kikazaru
03-14-2006, 04:31 AM
Wait - what's wrong with eating soft cheeses?? I ate a ton of cheese with my daughter (I craved fat like crazy) and I ate cans and cans of red salmon with my son. I HAD to have it. I have since learned that canned tuna and salmon are not good for pregnant women, but I hadn't heard about cheese.

I agree with you Maryn, there is a point where paternalism does interfere with an individual's free will. Smoking and drinking we do know is not a good thing for a developing fetus, eating tuna contains mercury, not taking folic acid can cause spina bifida, not getting enough vitamins is not good, yet taking too much of a certain type can be fatal. Exercising too vigorously can be detrimental etc etc etc. There are so many things that women can do that can interfere with a pregancy just by living their day to day lives - and it's obvious, the women on the other board are clearly not the brightest lights and very well may be harming their fetus - but where does it end?

Serenity
03-14-2006, 04:36 AM
- After you quit smoking, it takes at least 10 years for your body to get completely clean from all the toxins you've put into it.

Dear Lord, don't tell that to my father or he'll never quit...

Christine N.
03-14-2006, 04:38 AM
I think soft cheeses has to do with levels of bacteria. And you know the canned fish has to do with mercury.

aghast
03-14-2006, 05:26 AM
some peopel should never have kids, period

Anya Smith
03-14-2006, 06:48 AM
FIrst of all; Good Luck, Jenna!

I also stopped smoking when I was pregnant, but only when I found out, a little over 5 weeks into the pregnancy. My daughter is a healthy and wonderful girl. To stop smoking was the hardest thing I ever did, so I can only admire you for doing it before.

Those selfish ignorant brats you mentioned are spoiled to the bone. Don't let them rattle you; we're rooting for you.

Puddle Jumper
03-14-2006, 10:52 AM
So I started thinking that the world is screwed up because we really do live in a giant community of selfish idiots who are being taught that whatever feels good is fine and nothing should be hard, and everything is "good enough," and you should always come first. Those people pass those values onto their children, who grow up to feel entitled and selfish. I'm living in a world where people will fight to defend their right to smoke while pregnant, and other people will jump in to tell me not to judge them!
The motto of our society is...

"Me, me, me, I love myself, I have my picture on my shelf."

You're right of course, we live in a very selfish world. And we blame others for the way we are rather than take responsibility. I could blame my parents, teachers, politicians, tv, movies, classmates, co-workers, etc... for all my bad behavior. All the justification in the world doesn't make things right.

I applaud you for choosing not to smoke as you try to conceive and carry a baby. I applaud anyone who sacrifices desires for the best interests of someone else. :)

robeiae
03-14-2006, 06:35 PM
After you quit smoking, it takes at least 10 years for your body to get completely clean from all the toxins you've put into it.
Interesting. I wonder if it works the same way for disco.

Rob :)

astonwest
03-15-2006, 04:52 AM
Interesting. I wonder if it works the same way for disco.So, you'd have like what? 3 years left?

Yeshanu
03-15-2006, 06:15 AM
An interesting fact:

- After you quit smoking, it takes at least 10 years for your body to get completely clean from all the toxins you've put into it.


That may be true, but the benefits start almost immediately. You can't undo the damage you've already done, and the tar and nicotine probably does take a long time to clean out, but don't let that stop anyone from quitting. Your risk of a heart attack drops by half within days, because your blood is no longer taking in Carbon Monoxide instead of oxygen.

Keep the faith, Jenna and everyone else who's trying to quit for good. You can do it!

aruna
03-15-2006, 10:15 AM
For me, Jenna's OP is an example of a rather disturbing development; it's a certain over-the-top liberal attitude that "we can all do what we want and nobody can tell me anything, befause it's MY choice and MY life."
An attitude that dashed concepts such as personal responsibility and consequences out of the window. Look, I'm as liberal as they come - that's how I was raised, my mother believed in "freedom" but there came a tiome when evenshe began to lecture me. She used to say, "freedom is not the same as licence", but I never really understood that until my abuse of freedom got me into the worst fix ever. After that I turned rather conservative!

kikazaru
03-15-2006, 05:09 PM
I disagree Aruna.

These women are self centred, ignorant and they sound rather young to me and are most likely not particularily well educated. In addition, I've noticed that many people do not like to be told they are wrong (on a chat board or real life) so even if they do see the error of their ways they will not admit it and will adhere to their previous statement hammer and tong - no matter what, and their pals will back them.

It hasn't anything to do with being liberal and every thing to do with being angry, stubborn, and not very bright.

aruna
03-15-2006, 05:42 PM
I disagree Aruna.

These women are self centred, ignorant and they sound rather young to me and are most likely not particularily well educated. In addition, I've noticed that many people do not like to be told they are wrong (on a chat board or real life) so even if they do see the error of their ways they will not admit it and will adhere to their previous statement hammer and tong - no matter what, and their pals will back them.

It hasn't anything to do with being liberal and every thing to do with being angry, stubborn, and not very bright.

I don't understand what you disagree with; is it the word liberal?
Perhaps I used the word wrongly; I know that it is loaded in the US and I may not get all the connotations. I didn't mean it politically.
Because I certainly agree with you.
Not liking to be told you are wrong is what I'm trying to get at. Not listening to others. Always me, me, me, and what I WANT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

By mistake, I once wandered on to a forum of women who hated children; that was the point of the forum, to say how much you hated children. (Don't ask how I got there; it was a delphi forum, the advertise with intriguing thread titles). They called babies "vagina turds" or something like that. I said something in defence of children and motherhood and I never experienced such a torrent of hate in my whole life! I was virtually stoned to death!

kikazaru
03-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Heh! I guess I've been frequenting too many politcal forums where being "Liberal = scum of the earth" and "Conservative = all that is right and good." I may be a bit touchy - sorry about that.

"Vagina Turds??" Omg they sound beyond bitter - and beyond help.

Perks
03-15-2006, 05:57 PM
They called babies "vagina turds" or something like that.

Oooh, my kids better not piss me off today. Oh my god, that's funny. Sick, wrong and bitter toward the circle of life - but creatively hilarious. Woo hoo - what a way to start the day...

aruna
03-15-2006, 06:07 PM
Oooh, my kids better not piss me off today. Oh my god, that's funny. Sick, wrong and bitter toward the circle of life - but creatively hilarious. Woo hoo - what a way to start the day...

And yet, those women were 100% convinced that they were right, and that I was the one who was perverse and sick. I swear it!

Sarita
03-15-2006, 07:47 PM
A friend of a friend was having a baby and she swore that her Doctor told her she could drink 12 cans of Pepsi a day. We tried to convince her that he said 12 oz, not 12 cans. But she had it in her head that she could drink as much soda as she pleased and it wouldn't cause any problems for the baby.

Unfortunately, her baby girl was born with all sorts of problems (bone growth, muscular developement and control, now learning disabilities...) I don't know if they were directly related to the soda consumption, but I would imagine her diet played a big part.

It's too bad that people ignore the advice of medical professionals, or just hear what they want and do what seems best for them, not for their child.

mommie4a
03-16-2006, 07:24 AM
Jenna - You said all the right things. That those women couldn't even tolerate or respect an opinion different from theirs is as bad as having the opinion they shared in the first place!

I didn't smoke during my pregnancies (or conception efforts at ages 30, 34 and 37), but I did smoke from age 15 or 16 until 27 or 28. My mother, on the other hand, smoked through two of three pregnancies (me being one of them). At the risk of getting laughs, I'll say that I'm relatively normal, albeit vertically challenged (but we have some short genes in the family anyway).

The way you describe those women reminds of bikers who refuse to wear helmets or drivers/passengers who refuse to wear seatbelts. Just because the law says you have to do it doesn't mean it isn't good for you. I have a close friend who is still a close friend even though when we were driving to her baby shower, she refused to wear her seatbelt while driving on the highway and I told her, in a very calm, caring way, how upset it made me. She didn't put it on then, but she did on the way home.

Last thing, in the conception effort: you know about the hip tilt thing, right?

maestrowork
03-16-2006, 07:25 AM
I would have given these women a finger shaped like a giant cigarette.

Beyondian
03-16-2006, 09:33 AM
Maestrowork has access to fingers shaped like giant cigarettes - now where would you get something like that????? (My mind is still coming up with weird mental images...)

ETA Or is it something I would understand if I read all the previous posts?