Outliner or Pantser? The SFF edition

Lillith1991 · Mar 17, 2014

While browsing the site I spotted something in Historical Fiction I thought would be useful to us, the "pantser or Outliner" thread. This made me wonder. How many of my fellow SFF writers are pantsers, outliners, or something inbetween? So here it is....Pantser or Outliner SFF edition!

I'm about 50/50 I think, give or take a few percent. I need to have my novel length works outlined or I suffer from massive writers block. But at the same time I don't need to know the number of scenes in a chapter and summarize them. Knowing what needs to happen in a chapter is fine, and the crucial part for me.

By contrast my short stories never require anything other than a small plot diagram of what needs to happen. Ok...reading this I sound like more of an outliner than a pantser. I change my opinion. I'm an outliner, probably in the 60/40 range of things.

What are you?

ACFantasy · Mar 17, 2014

Outliner. Totally outliner. If I don't have an outline, either in my head or (preferably) on paper, my stories tend to end up in ditches. And on fire.

I definitely need a roadmap to make sure my story can get where it's going.

Chris P · Mar 17, 2014

I write in scenes as they come to me. I start off writing any scene from any part of the story, then when I get 15K or so words I start the outline to place the scenes where I want them. The outline (which is usually little more than a numbered list of scenes) helps me find which scenes need to be connected.

I'm about halfway through my first serious attempt at sci-fi, and my system is not working as well since it's harder to stay consistent with the technology. I write a scene where it would be really cool if the technology could do such-and-such, but it hasn't done it before so I need to tweak it in other scenes. But at the same time, I don't know how I could possibly know everything about the technology before I see how it works

rwm4768 · Mar 17, 2014

I'm somewhere in the middle, and how much I fall toward either end of the scale depends on the project.

Osulagh · Mar 17, 2014

I believe everyone is somewhere in between.

If I don't have some sort of roadmap, either marked out or just in my head, of where I'm going I typically get lost.

sunandshadow · Mar 17, 2014

I've tried both and neither method actually works for me. *sigh* Pantsing gets me a puddle of plotless self-indulgent soap-opera which is going nowhere and has no structure that might enable it to get somewhere. Outlining _sometimes_ gets me a complete outline, but more often something too fragmentary to actually write. I think the underlying problem is my brain just doesn't think in terms of plot, so it can't generate plot-type ideas. Character, worldbuilding, theme, got plenty of those ideas, but it's like trying to build a skyscraper without steel.

Rhea · Mar 17, 2014

Outliner. My characters hate me for that, but I can't have them roaming around the imaginary countryside, sniffing daffodils and indulging in sentimentalism and frivolous love affairs while their whole world is about to collapse into anarchy/being consumed by mind-controlling parasites/overrun by belligrent aliens. Yep, outlining is the way for me.

Mr Flibble · Mar 18, 2014

Pantser, almost entirely

I start with a character in a situation and go from there. The world buils as I write

I do sometimes have a vague end point to aim for, but that always changes by the time I'm 3/4 of the way through (mainly cos I thought of something better)

Roxxsmom · Mar 18, 2014

Mr Flibble said:
Pantser, almost entirely

I start with a character in a situation and go from there. The world buils as I write

I do sometimes have a vague end point to aim for, but that always changes by the time I'm 3/4 of the way through (mainly cos I thought of something better)

This pretty much sums my approach up also.

I can't say how successful it is for me, though, as I've yet to sell a story

Liosse de Velishaf · Mar 18, 2014

Depends on the story, but rarely a full outline. generally lots of notes and little on-paper plotting.

TomKnighton · Mar 18, 2014

So far, I'm a pantser. For novels, it's not really working out all that well for me. 57,000+ words into this one, and I'm only just now working out a chain of events that will lead to a resolution.

Not a good thing by any means.

I'm also trying to outline my next book, with some characters based on a short story I'm shopping around right now. It probably needs to be plotted well, since the concept is Firefly meets Oceans 11.

BethS · Mar 18, 2014

I start with a character in a situation and go from there. I don't outline or make character charts. It all grows from that initial seed.

I did try outlining, when I was first starting out, and found that it destroyed any urge to write the actual story, because to my mind, the story had already been told. I need to write the way I read: to find out what happens next.

DeleyanLee · Mar 18, 2014

My present WIP is roughly 90% organic with 10% structure imposed on it at various points in the writing process. I used to write to strict outlines and hated pretty much everything I put to paper, so I know plot structures and needs well enough, I used to teach the subject at another site. So I'm comfortable trusting that knowledge give some stability to whatever my creative mind comes up with as I sit down and just write. Most of the structure I've had to impose is more in rearranging scenes and touch-ups than anything else.

Maggie Maxwell · Mar 18, 2014

I'm not really sure, honestly. If I pants a story, I get a lot of twists I like and never saw coming, but as I go further in, I get lost and can't finish because I wrote myself into a corner, or I waste a lot of time on something that doesn't pan out. If I outline, I don't get any surprises, but I can finish. I'm currently trying to find a balance between the two that works for me.

Bellwood · Mar 18, 2014

Outliner. Outliner^1000. My stories do change while I'm writing them, but then I update the outline.

Wilde_at_heart · Mar 18, 2014

BethS said:
I start with a character in a situation and go from there. I don't outline or make character charts. It all grows from that initial seed.

I did try outlining, when I was first starting out, and found that it destroyed any urge to write the actual story, because to my mind, the story had already been told. I need to write the way I read: to find out what happens next.

I found outlining (when I worked on earlier WIPs) helped me maintain discipline, otherwise I'd lose focus but more recently I've written one exactly like that, with only a vague resolution in mind even now. The process has been a lot slower since when I hit a wall of any sort I stop and have to wait at least several weeks until I can get going with it again, but the couple of times I've read the entire thing through, I can tell it's ironically going to need a lot less revising later on.

Myrealana · Mar 18, 2014

I'm an outliner.

When I get an idea, I jot down background info in my notebook until I think I have enough characters and setting, and then I pull out a pad of sticky notes. I jot down every plot point, character moment, setback, and image I can think of that belongs in the book. Then, I take those sticky notes and place them on a wall in order, arrange them until I have a coherent story, fill in any blanks and transfer all of that to 3x5 cards.

I then sit there with my 3x5 cards and use them to write my first rough draft by just flipping through the cards. That first rough draft is still not much more than an outline. I'll have some description and dialogue, but it will still have a lot of summary bits.

And so on. I'll go through at least two more drafts before I'm ready to show it to anyone.

Marian Perera · Mar 18, 2014

I outline. If I tried to do otherwise, I'd either stall or write something that rambled and meandered, and I'd need draft after draft to get it right.

Outlining, to me, doesn't mean a lack of novelty, because some twists and ideas happen organically and aren't what I originally wrote in the plan. But if not for the plan, I'd never get to the point where I was rolling along, totally in the zone to the point where I was able to find little surprises growing out of the story. I need the outline as the support and scaffolding to get me there.

Little Anonymous Me · Mar 18, 2014

Outline. Outline all the way. If I don't, I spend more time staring at the screen trying to figure out what happens next then I do writing. Case in point:

First novel--virtually no outline. Nine months. 63K. Needs massive editing.

Second novel--detailed outline. Two months. 80k. Minimal editing.

Third novel--detailed outline. 4 months. Finishing at the end of this one, hell or high water. (Extra time is the result of Life[SUP]TM[/SUP] meddling.) Minimal editing needed.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 18, 2014

100% Free form pantser. I don't even know how to outline. I'm not wired that way. I can't chart a story out before hand because I have absolutely no inkling of it before I write it. It just sort of appears as if from thin air as I'm writing it. Ask me at any point what the story is about and I can only tell you about what I've written, not where its heading.

Lillith1991 · Mar 18, 2014

Little Anonymous Me said:
Outline. Outline all the way. If I don't, I spend more time staring at the screen trying to figure out what happens next then I do writing. Case in point:

First novel--virtually no outline. Nine months. 63K. Needs massive editing.

Second novel--detailed outline. Two months. 80k. Minimal editing.

Third novel--detailed outline. 4 months. Finishing at the end of this one, hell or high water. (Extra time is the result of Life[SUP]TM[/SUP] meddling.) Minimal editing needed.

Queen of Swords said:
I outline. If I tried to do otherwise, I'd either stall or write something that rambled and meandered, and I'd need draft after draft to get it right.

Outlining, to me, doesn't mean a lack of novelty, because some twists and ideas happen organically and aren't what I originally wrote in the plan. But if not for the plan, I'd never get to the point where I was rolling along, totally in the zone to the point where I was able to find little surprises growing out of the story. I need the outline as the support and scaffolding to get me there.

These two things sound like what I'm going through with some of my both my fanworks and original stuff. If not outlined enough I tend to stall. If I'm breaking the situation for something more interesting than my original plan I want to know what I'm breaking. Sometimes I think of keeping outlines 2.0 to try and track outline changes.

Myrealana · Mar 18, 2014

Little Anonymous Me said:
Outline. Outline all the way. If I don't, I spend more time staring at the screen trying to figure out what happens next then I do writing. Case in point:

First novel--virtually no outline. Nine months. 63K. Needs massive editing.

Second novel--detailed outline. Two months. 80k. Minimal editing.

Third novel--detailed outline. 4 months. Finishing at the end of this one, hell or high water. (Extra time is the result of Life[SUP]TM[/SUP] meddling.) Minimal editing needed.

Yup.

Tried pantsing.

HATED. IT.

Tried minimal outline - got lost, bored, forgot about subplots. It was horrible.

I've refined my outlining process over time. I'm working on my 3rd book, and I think I've got it down. It doesn't take nearly as long as it sounds. The pre-writing takes a variable length of time, and I don't really measure, since I just jot down things in my spare time, but once I'm ready to brainstorm, my sticky notes and cards process takes less than a day. The first draft comes quickly after that - maybe 3-4 weeks.

CAMueller · Mar 18, 2014

Panster. Big time. I usually start with a character and the beginning, an ending, and a few key points I want to hit in the middle (these may be scenes or just emotions). Then I wing it.

Much like Mr Fibble, my novels come alive on the page and I almost always end up changing the ending because organically something far better has come to mind.

Early on I tried outlining because I had so many friends saying it made them more efficient, etc. I wrote a novella that way, and ...no. It didn't have the same kind of life my "pantsed" projects do.

And, I'll add to any pantsers thinking that outlining will make them faster: I've found the act of writing and editing (a.k.a. experience) makes me faster. My first drafts are cleaner despite my need to "wing it."

amergina · Mar 18, 2014

Yes.

I completely panst a novel. I've also outlined. I've done a combo of the two. I find that each story wants to have its own process, so I just go with what works.

zanzjan · Mar 18, 2014

Pantser, almost always, though a first draft. For anything lengthy or especially complicated, I will often build an outline retroactively as I start revisions, though, because then it's less about the headlong rush and more about finessing the entire composition. But it really does vary by project.

Outliner or Pantser? The SFF edition

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