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Mariana
03-01-2014, 02:04 AM
Hi to everyone!!!

Let's consider that a doctor want's to kill a healthy person (34 years old) and he want's to look like a death from natural causes (heart attack I guess). What would he do?? What substances, medicine or drug could be useful for such cause?? I'm not looking something like poisoning witch requires days to provoke death, I need something instant, I mean... like an instant death by injection. And, what about the toxictoxicological analysis?? My alternative is the heroine overdose but I don't know if it sounds realistic, because he doesn't have a history of addiction.

Thank you all for your answers.

Telergic
03-01-2014, 02:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

Ricin is detectable in an autopsy if it's being looked for, but I don't know if it would be found after a routine death that was not otherwise suspicious. There are some other very small dose toxins in the world, probably some better than Ricin, too, but you may as well invent one rather than use a real one, given that they exist. No sense in giving out free murder advice....

Heroin OD is plausible without addiction if the drug is cut with poison. Some users live normal lives for extended periods, and their friends and families don't know the truth, so anyone could well be a user. But I imagine such a death might prompt a toxicological analysis more so than others? Dunno.

onesecondglance
03-01-2014, 02:15 AM
Harold Shipman did it using diamorphine; Beverley Allitt used insulin. Shipman got away with it for years before being caught.

Torgo
03-01-2014, 02:17 AM
Heroin OD is plausible without addiction if the drug is cut with poison. Some users live normal lives for extended periods, and their friends and families don't know the truth, so anyone could well be a user. But I imagine such a death might prompt a toxicological analysis more so than others? Dunno.

Pretty sure a medical examiner would scratch their head over a heroin OD victim who didn't show any other sign of long-term addiction. There's so much you'd need to set up to make it look legit; a good short-cut for investigators would be to, say, analyse hair for traces.

That said, Harold Shipman killed dozens like this - elderly people, though, and he got to sign the death certificates, so he escaped detection for years.

ironmikezero
03-01-2014, 02:26 AM
I used a similar character in HOA HELL, not a doctor, but someone with a good grasp of human physiology... A professional assassin staged homicides to look like either suicides or deaths from natural causes by injecting 20cc of air into the inner carotid arteries via the back of the throat. Decedents were first rendered defenseless by the application of a stun gun (not a taser - barbs leave tiny wounds). The injection sites were almost undetectable. In the usual post mortem exam COD was typically attributed to a massive stroke. The air embolism dissipates fairly quickly, leaving little to no trace. Consequently, nothing alerts on the tox screening.

Use your imagination... You may surprise yourself with your potential creativity - and scare yourself at the same time.

Lauram6123
03-01-2014, 03:04 AM
There was a woman in Cleveland who murdered not one, but two husbands by poisoning them with antifreeze. If she would have stopped with the first one, she never would have gotten caught, because hubby one's death was chalked up to natural causes/flu.

NeuroGlide
03-01-2014, 04:02 AM
Hi to everyone!!!

Let's consider that a doctor want's to kill a healthy person (34 years old) and he want's to look like a death from natural causes (heart attack I guess). What would he do?? What substances, medicine or drug could be useful for such cause?? I'm not looking something like poisoning witch requires days to provoke death, I need something instant, I mean... like an instant death by injection. And, what about the toxictoxicological analysis?? My alternative is the heroine overdose but I don't know if it sounds realistic, because he doesn't have a history of addiction.

Thank you all for your answers.

One of the most toxic substances known is nicotine. A tiny amount, less than a drop, injected directly into the heart with a cardiac needle would be near instant (heart would stop, but brain would go on for almost a minute). If the target were a smoker, it might avoid detection if the coroner weren't looking for it. The question is if the test just detects the presence or amounts.

Telergic
03-01-2014, 04:11 AM
A lot depends, I suppose, on whether the death is suspicious. If not, there might not be any toxicology tests done anyway.

SadieStoltzfus
03-01-2014, 04:19 AM
There are a number of tricks to killing a person in this way. Forcing an embolism by injecting a person with a lot of air can cause a heart attack or a stroke and will appear at first blush to be natural causes. Another option is an injection of insulin which can cause shock. Digitalis can also cause a heart attack and is difficult to track because it metabolizes quickly.

Lil
03-01-2014, 05:14 AM
Is anyone going to call for an autopsy? If the doctor says the cause of death was X, why would anyone question it? I've always been fond of the injection of air, but it doesn't come with a guarantee. Of course, since you're writing the story, it can work instantly.

MDSchafer
03-01-2014, 07:38 AM
A simple solution is heroin cut with fentanyl both of those substances reduce your respiratory rate, and probably have the ability to kill you with the needle still in your arm. It would be fairly easy to fake a "hidden" drug addiction.


Is anyone going to call for an autopsy? If the doctor says the cause of death was X, why would anyone question it? I've always been fond of the injection of air, but it doesn't come with a guarantee. Of course, since you're writing the story, it can work instantly.

Both family members and medical examiners can call for an autopsy. Doctors are routinely questioned about cause of death, there is a whole section of lawyers who make their living by questioning doctors and nurses.

WeaselFire
03-02-2014, 11:19 PM
Attended deaths, where a doctor is present, rarely call for an autopsy unless the cause is accidental and then a medical examiner needs to rule on the death (still may not be an autopsy). Adrenalin (epinephrine) and insulin are naturally occurring in the body and normally would not be looked for. Especially if the patient suffered from something where either would be normally injected.

No murder is perfect. You just need to write the situation where the cause is overlooked.

Jeff

7luckyclovers
03-07-2014, 04:01 AM
I would think if an otherwise healthy 34 yo dropped dead, there would be an autopsy. It's different to kill pts. that are chronically sick, or that have been in a terrible accident, or the elderly.

Cicutoxin (Hemlock), Belladonna, Arsenic. Potassium if injected into the IV too quickly can cause fatal hyperkalemia. Epinephrine would do the trick too.