eBook format - what to do with links and references to page #'s

mcsolas · Feb 17, 2014

5. Can I use tables inside HTML?
Tables are not supported by Amazon KDP and will not display properly on the Amazon Kindle. If you have tables inside your HTML, Microsoft Word or PDF documents, the conversion process may result in malformed content.

I am starting to look more closely at how to format my book for ebook format. Outside of trying to figure out what to do with my tables, I am also looking at the hyperlinks I created using the cross references in the book.

I am realizing that unless I get the pages to break exactly the same, which I am not sure of because if I linearize the tables, I have a feeling some of the single page recipes would appear on 2 pages. This would mean that any reference to "see how to cook rice on page 11" might actually be referring to page 12. Etc.

So I am guessing that I am going to be going through the whole book searching for any reference to the word "page" and just leaving it as a hyperlink such as: "see how to cook rice".

Just wondering if anyone else has run into similar issues when converting their work into a Kindle compatible format.

*edit: I am also reading that they suggest converting the tables into gifs. I am not sure if this is a good idea for me since the book is already nearing the 50mb limit that they say they allow for conversion into this format. I could probably make it work but I am not sure this is really a solution I would like to pursue.

JournoWriter · Feb 17, 2014

Page numbers can vary based on font size and device, so you probably don't want to use them in in-text citations or links. I read on my iPhone, for example, which has a completely different page set-up than a regular Kindle.

mcsolas · Feb 17, 2014

Yes, I am realizing that I am going to be editing my book pretty thoroughly before making another attempt at converting for Kindle and eBook format in general.

I had another thought about this though after posting.. what about the Index?

Would you just say: Rice is mentioned: here, here, here and here...

Or would you just remove it altogether?

Torgo · Feb 17, 2014

mcsolas said:
From this page:
I am starting to look more closely at how to format my book for ebook format. Outside of trying to figure out what to do with my tables, I am also looking at the hyperlinks I created using the cross references in the book.

I am realizing that unless I get the pages to break exactly the same, which I am not sure of because if I linearize the tables, I have a feeling some of the single page recipes would appear on 2 pages. This would mean that any reference to "see how to cook rice on page 11" might actually be referring to page 12. Etc.

So I am guessing that I am going to be going through the whole book searching for any reference to the word "page" and just leaving it as a hyperlink such as: "see how to cook rice".

Just wondering if anyone else has run into similar issues when converting their work into a Kindle compatible format.

*edit: I am also reading that they suggest converting the tables into gifs. I am not sure if this is a good idea for me since the book is already nearing the 50mb limit that they say they allow for conversion into this format. I could probably make it work but I am not sure this is really a solution I would like to pursue.

You can do hyperlinks in EPUB and you can also have them link back to the original page - this is independent of pagination. I don't know how exactly to do it in terms of code, but you may wish to look for code for footnotes - links to the end of the book and back are the way this has been done up until now. (In EPUB 3 you can do popup footnotes, which is much nicer.)

Torgo · Feb 17, 2014

mcsolas said:
Yes, I am realizing that I am going to be editing my book pretty thoroughly before making another attempt at converting for Kindle and eBook format in general.

I had another thought about this though after posting.. what about the Index?

Would you just say: Rice is mentioned: here, here, here and here...

Or would you just remove it altogether?

You could do an index, but most EPUB readers have a search function built in, so you could probably skip it. I tend to use search if I want to find something.

In a recipe book though you could certainly do a secondary contents page for common ingredients and link with hyperlinks as above - beef recipes, past recipes etc - and also look at grouping for cooking techniques if you like (mainly done in the oven, skillet, grill etc.) I'd find that useful.

girlyswot · Feb 17, 2014

Hyperlinks, definitely. It could be brilliant, actually. But it's going to need some proper layout design and coding to make it work well. Unless you're a coder and formatter yourself, I suspect this is one of those cases where it really could be worth paying someone to get this right. For a novel, ebook formatting is pretty easy, but what you're dealing with needs a lot more expertise, otherwise it could end up a mess. Worst case scenario: formatting looks great on whatever devices you test but screws up badly on every other device = a lot of dissatisfied readers.

ETA: It worries me that you are even thinking in terms of page numbers. Do you read ebooks yourself? If not, download the free kindle app and check some out, just to get a sense of how the table of contents works, how you can move between sections and so on.

Torgo · Feb 17, 2014

girlyswot said:
Worst case scenario: formatting looks great on whatever devices you test but screws up badly on every other device = a lot of dissatisfied readers.

The best course is to take vanilla Kindle as your baseline, I think. For a recipe book the simplest solution would be separate chapters for each recipe and a handy network of hyperlinks, and keep fancy formatting to a minimum. You could probably author it yourself in a bare-bones way if you have the structure and links down pat.

You could release a lovely iBooks Author version simultaneously. I've been impressed with iBA and you can certainly get things to look a lot nicer, if only for iPads.

girlyswot · Feb 17, 2014

Right, but with the kinds of images, tables and other layout issues that the OP is talking about, it's going to need handcoding. None of the conversion tools will handle that.

Torgo · Feb 17, 2014

girlyswot said:
Right, but with the kinds of images, tables and other layout issues that the OP is talking about, it's going to need handcoding. None of the conversion tools will handle that.

Yep, paid-for or learned. iBA will do it in a more intuitive way, but that's a small market.

mcsolas · Feb 18, 2014

Torgo said:
You could do an index, but most EPUB readers have a search function built in, so you could probably skip it. I tend to use search if I want to find something.

In a recipe book though you could certainly do a secondary contents page for common ingredients and link with hyperlinks as above - beef recipes, past recipes etc - and also look at grouping for cooking techniques if you like (mainly done in the oven, skillet, grill etc.) I'd find that useful.

Good points! I did a "H1" and "H2" tag throughout the layout of the book. When publishing, since it was in color, I limited the front index to just the H1 tags to avoid adding 2-3 or more pages of front reference material, but I actually kind of liked it. In the future think I am going to just go with that format in both print and digital versions since that is where people I think will more likely use it (vs the back index which I included only because most of the books in this genre I saw had one).

After reading this I see that doing a H1/H2 tag list would probably be the ideal way to go. I might edit it slightly but the automatically generated version would get me off to a good start. Then from there, also remove the back index as you said, in most cases there is a search feature in relation to readers, I had not thought about that at all.

The best course is to take vanilla Kindle as your baseline, I think. For a recipe book the simplest solution would be separate chapters for each recipe and a handy network of hyperlinks, and keep fancy formatting to a minimum.

Yes that would be good. Its a bummer though because in the kindle preview app I just tried references the Kindle Fire and the tables load.. I might adjust the css to make the spacing better but more or less fine. It would be nice to leave them in ( mostly I am just using a 2 column tables) but I am also thinking about just linearizing them all for the sake of things, since the # of total pages is not more costly in a digital environment. I just had these beautiful page layouts I had done.. but I guess that whole concept is getting thrown out the window right now

Also, I am not thinking in terms of page #'s, they were simply already 'there' from the cross references in the book, that is all. The topic of this post is about how to elegantly depreciate them...

I have really learned a lot in this thread about how I am going to approach modifying this book and also in general, how I will structure future projects. although the changes aren't too complex.. its going to take some work to get to the finished product. at least now I have a much better idea of where I am heading with this:

create a more sophisticated TOC
remove the back index
depreciate any page # reference's (including in the TOC)
do lots of work reformatting images
decide what to do about my tables
publish my first ebook
thank everyone for their help

eBook format - what to do with links and references to page #'s

mcsolas

Aspiring writer

JournoWriter

Just the facts, please

mcsolas

Aspiring writer

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

girlyswot

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

girlyswot

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

mcsolas

Aspiring writer