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writersliving
03-06-2006, 02:09 AM
what I have to say is for(women only) specaily for those who are though what I am. I have twins and the father decided because he thought it was only going to be one girl and he don't have alot of money that he can't pay for two. and he's feels that he should see his daughters anyway, (but in my opion) if he can't pay why should he see his daughters. I not a rich person neither. I didn't exept twins, but now I have them and yes it's harder, but until he pays. I'm going keep them away. what do you think?

eldragon
03-06-2006, 02:18 AM
I know an 18 year old girl who had triplets with an 18 year old boy. They are identical triplets, and for those of you who don't realize how rare that is .....her egg split 3 times. It's rare.


The boy (father) went onto college and law school. The girl (mother) went onto college and stayed living in her parents house while they helped raise the girls.

The boy and girl never considered marriage, they hadn't really been dating.


But the girl (mom) let the boy and his family see the girls whenever he could.

Now that he's an attorney, he's paying alright, but the best thing is that they know him and love him as their dad.


I understand that support is a necessary component of child raising, but keeping children from a parent for lack of child support will come back to bite you in the butt everytime.


Unless he doesn't want to see them at all.

Either way, go through the DA's office, and if he works a regular job, they'll decide what he owes and make him pay.

Otherwise, bite the bullet for your kids sake and let him see them when he can, with limitations, of course.

Cathy C
03-06-2006, 02:24 AM
Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- both legally and ethically. Parenthood shouldn't be "pay to play" any more than publishing should. Yes, it s*cks when a spouse refuses to pay support. But it's a requirement that is adequately dealt with by the courts. If you're going to teach your children fair play, that means you have to play fair even when the other person DOESN'T. Please don't sour your children to their other parent by saying bad things, either. Simply call your attorney (or call the court clerk) while the children are out, and ask for a motion to have the spouse's wages garnished. It's simple--it's fast and you'll get your money directly from the court every month, or your ex- will wind up in jail. No fuss, no muss.

But no, you cannot refuse visitation because of failure to pay. I don't think there's a single state that allows you to. If you refuse, YOU'LL be the one in court, explaining yourself, and then who is soured in the minds of the kids?

writersliving
03-06-2006, 02:28 AM
I don't know if anyone agree, but in my opion I rather be a single parent than have to deal with the no good fathers. which I am already in that situation. I don't want to go though court battles and fighting someone who really dosen't care about his daughters. and he decide he dosen't want to pay. It not right but I'ds rather have my children just have a mother. then to ever let them know that daddy dosn't really love them or just love one. what do you think?

writersliving
03-06-2006, 02:40 AM
:hi: you can't just play merry go round with child and that's all . I'm not the only one who had it. I don't with either of you. I know a child not a pond. but I'm just teaching the man he can do anything and he can get what he wan'ts. that unfair too. sorry but that's my opion and either he pays or no child. so we both be wrong. no only me

Perks
03-06-2006, 02:48 AM
Then why did you bother to ask for opinions here? You were almost guaranteed to get a few people who didn't agree with you. Of course you will do what you will do. Everyone always does.

ChaosTitan
03-06-2006, 02:51 AM
You beat me to the question, Perks.

Child support is not a rental fee, and visitation should not be withheld as some sort of vengeance tactic. Writersliving, I doubt there are many folks on this forum who would agree with your decision.

P.H.Delarran
03-06-2006, 02:53 AM
do it legally, and he'll pay. trust me. it's good that he wants to be in their lives..some just walk away. legally, you don't get to decide that, whether or not you feel justified. just file for child support and the courts will determine what he pays.

Perks
03-06-2006, 02:59 AM
Well the thing is, there are fathers who don't care; there are fathers who don't pay; there are fathers who can't pay if they'd like to eat and not get carted off by the bill collectors; there are fathers that love their children very much and there is every possible combination of the above criteria to define each circumstance.

A true callous deadbeat is a repulsive creature, but you can't get blood from a stone. It's also unlikely you'll get any useful or workable opinions on a writer's message board, but I guess it's as good a place as any to vent when you're pissed.

reph
03-06-2006, 03:02 AM
I know an 18 year old girl who had triplets with an 18 year old boy. They are identical triplets, and for those of you who don't realize how rare that is .....her egg split 3 times.
Triplets result from two splits.

writersliving, if the father of your twins gets a lawyer to help him, you won't be able to cut him off from visits. What you're doing now is abusing power.

rtilryarms
03-06-2006, 03:03 AM
And you should not restrict responses to women only. You need to know that this involves many others.
Fathers, brothers, uncles, gandparents. They all have a tremendous amount of insight on this. Probably thousands of times more than the two who are dead set in the battle against each other.
Oh, did i mention the kids? They grow up. I can give you guidance that no counselor, lawyer, judge, general master or writer can give.

If you really want what is best for you kids. Talk to them. Their opinion is the only one in the entire world that counts.






You beat me to the question, Perks.

Child support is not a rental fee, and visitation should not be withheld as some sort of vengeance tactic. Writersliving, I doubt there are many folks on this forum who would agree with your decision.

poetinahat
03-06-2006, 03:07 AM
:hi: you can't just play merry go round with child and that's all . I'm not the only one who had it. I don't with either of you. I know a child not a pond. but I'm just teaching the man he can do anything and he can get what he wan'ts. that unfair too. sorry but that's my opion and either he pays or no child. so we both be wrong. no only me
So, this is about you and the father?

Try thinking of the kids just once.

poetinahat
03-06-2006, 03:08 AM
And -- how do I say this nicely? -- please try to learn grammar and punctuation. Your posts on this thread border on illegible.

Stew21
03-06-2006, 03:14 AM
Our opinions don't matter. Talk to an attorney, find out what your options are. I have seen lots of situations all with different dynamics, different combinations of can pay, can't pay, won't pay, doesn't want to see them, does want to, mom won't let them see him, etc. The only ones who really get hurt are the kids.
See an attorney. Find out your rights and his rights (so you aren't stepping on them and getting yourself in trouble), if you need him to pay so you can get your rent paid and daughters fed, there are ways of doing that. If you need other assistance because you aren't getting paid by him, there are state programs for that. Look into them.
Every situation is different. My opinion one way or the other doesn't mean squat to your situation or your kids'.
Best of luck to you.

writerterri
03-06-2006, 03:14 AM
I'm going with the guy above me, also you should let the girls see their father and take him to court for the child support. I know your angry at him, but think of the girls and be a civil as possible with their father. In the end your girls will thank you.

Terri

rtilryarms
03-06-2006, 03:23 AM
Please take all this input as a bunch of friends at a bar. We know you were angry at the first post.
You can see this draws emotion. The reason is that EVERYONE goes through this sometime in their lives. I have been through it from multiple avenues. Fortunately not as a Dad or a Mother.

I sincerely hope you take in some of this input and don't get mad at us. We feel for you but many have watched this scenario before.

tiny
03-06-2006, 03:30 AM
Once a child comes into the equation, it's all about them. By not letting these girls see their father you hurt only them. Out of spite, you are denying your children a father rather than biting the bullet and going through the court system.

eldragon
03-06-2006, 03:33 AM
you can't just play merry go round with child and that's all . I'm not the only one who had it. I don't with either of you. I know a child not a pond. but I'm just teaching the man he can do anything and he can get what he wan'ts. that unfair too. sorry but that's my opion and either he pays or no child. so we both be wrong. no only me

Are you still talking about twins?


Your post is unclear.

eldragon
03-06-2006, 03:34 AM
I think you started this thread already.

eldragon
03-06-2006, 03:36 AM
Didn't you start a thread that said you wanted kids? Did you have the twins yet?



02-15-2006, 06:31 PM #1 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=496341&postcount=1) writersliving (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=804) vbmenu_register("postmenu_496341", true);
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http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif would you rather. being single or having kids!
why do so many people think that because your single that you are so lucky. okay in a way single with nobody to care for. but sometimes it can feel lonely sometimes I'd rather being a mother with kids even though it I know it will be harder. but theirs always somebody who need you for something. I know it's strange I'm single with nobody to take care of but me and want kids. But I'm just wondering what you think?

tiny
03-06-2006, 03:42 AM
You know, I just had to add, a father is not a luxury. He's an important part of the equation. I hate it when women (and yes, I am a chick) figure they can just cut the man out without damage. He's not cancer. He's not an unneeded variable after the original deed. He's supposed to be there, even in the smallest of ways.

I remember my mother telling about how her father sent gifts for every birthday, every christmas. My grandmother was in the room when she told me the story. What I didn't learn until later was that my grandmother had used what little money she had to buy those gifts. Even when she had nothing for them, she put his name on the packages under the tree.

It meant so much to my mom to think he cared when she was a girl. And as an adult, she was able to deal with the fact that he didn't.

It was about the children. As it should be.

eldragon
03-06-2006, 03:43 AM
I remember my mother telling about how her father sent gifts for every birthday, every christmas. My grandmother was in the room when she told me the story. What I didn't learn until later was that my grandmother had used what little money she had to buy those gifts. Even when she had nothing for them, she put his name on the packages under the tree


Your grandmother was a bonafide saint.

MadScientistMatt
03-06-2006, 03:45 AM
Do the settlement terms give the father visitation rights, or not?

poetinahat
03-06-2006, 03:48 AM
Why two different threads? And why do you only show up here when you want to ask people's opinions about your own life, then tell us all, "I don't care what you think"?

Who are you kidding? You have no interest in what anyone else thinks. Least of all the kids.

reph
03-06-2006, 03:51 AM
Do the settlement terms give the father visitation rights, or not?
Matt, why assume the relationship ever reached the level of formality at which there'd be explicit settlement terms?

Cathy C
03-06-2006, 04:14 AM
Good point, reph. In that case, a paternity suit is called for (again in the court). If he's the father, despite the obvious hint of him wanting to see the kids, then child support will be ordered. He'll pay or lose a lot of privileges in the system. Many states now have in place losing vital things like driver's licenses, permits to operate a business, etc., if he's delinquent on support.

TwentyFour
03-06-2006, 04:20 AM
I have been there Writersliving! I also cut off ties with the entire family of the man and his parents till I felt able to see them. I then thought I would "Lighten up" on them and they could see the kids if I didn't see them (with my parents) since he and his parents and I never got along! That worked for me! He seen my son twice, now he pays around 200 in support, and his family has left me and my son alone. Being that they only wanted to use my kid as a pawn in a game they wanted to play, they seen they could no longer play it with me! I know 200 isn't alot for most people, but he has a low paying job and an older child he pays support to, so I do understand that and do not wish to take half his paycheck for my son. He is only paying for help to our son, not paying to see his son. He hasn't seen my son in over a year, nor got him any christmas or birthday gifts, neither has his parents who live a few houses away from me. If you are bitter and play games, they can play them too and get you for it in court.

It has taken him seven years to start paying his support, I did without, or on welfare, or on public assistance for quite awhile till my son's disability came through. Now that he is getting ready for reconstructive surgery at 9 and a half he knows which parents does for him and which doesn't. He knows when he gets support if it isn't buying him his favorite foods or some new outfit, he will get something he wants no matter. He recently got some support and he got a new bedding of Spongebob with matching sheets, pillowcases, and spongebob shaped pillows to throw on the bed. He was thrilled and knew his support from his father paid for it. I was 17 when I had him, my ex was 20. It may take time to get over the anger but it will happen if you do it without thinking of your ex while doing it. Think of you kids, what would they want? And if you badmouth your ex to your child, it makes your kid feel guilty for loving that parent.

My son's grandparents came over one day and were badmouthing my ex's ex. My son overheard this and he knows I do not bad mouth them. He walked up to them and looked at my parents and said "Are they talking about MY MOM?!" LOL! They know not to say anything now because my son knows who takes care of him and who is on his side.

aadams73
03-06-2006, 04:22 AM
My Husband was a good father and paid all his child support even when he knew his ex was taking the money and spending it on herself.

Sometimes some members of my own sex can be real c***s about stuff like this. Seriously.

Cathy C
03-06-2006, 04:28 AM
But you're not the Virgin Mary. The kids DO have a father, and he has the same rights to see them as you do. He was part of the process and, whether or not you believe it, there's a chance that HE loves the kids just as much as YOU love them. Lots of men have sued for, and gotten, FULL custody rights when the mother is being unreasonable. And then you'd have nothing.

But if you TRULY want to be a single mom, and want him to have no part in the kids' lives, then be brave--take a deep breath and file for termination of his parental rights. He'll probably fight it, since it sounds like he wants to see them. But if you want no part of him anymore, and think he'd be a detriment to the kids, then it's the right thing to do. But understand that your kids might not feel the same, once they're of an age to have their own opinions.

Carole
03-06-2006, 04:28 AM
Situations vary and dads don't always pay. Ex-jerk never did, even though we were in court numerous times and he was in the Navy. It's not always as simple as taking the dad to court and having him pay. There are loopholes and BOY did he find them! One after another until I was on welfare for a while. The child advocacy took over at that point and even THEY were unable to make him pay.

BUT

Visitation with their dad was never an issue. Regardless of whether or not he paid, they always saw their dad. No court had to make me do that. That was just simply feeling it was the right thing to do. They love their dad (Lord knows why, but they do). It would have hurt them to keep them from him. They tell me now that if I had kept them from him they would have ended up resenting ME for it and the same is true for their situation now. He has the boys now, weird turn of events, but even though he and I dispise one another, it styill doesn't change who sees who when. The kids MUST come first. NOT the parents squabbles and who is going to teach who a lesson.

SC Harrison
03-06-2006, 04:31 AM
You know, I just had to add, a father is not a luxury. He's an important part of the equation. I hate it when women (and yes, I am a chick) figure they can just cut the man out without damage. He's not cancer. He's not an unneeded variable after the original deed. He's supposed to be there, even in the smallest of ways.



I agree totally. The father is just as important as the mother is, in my opinion, and extended absence of either one is not good for the kids. While the behavior of a parent may reach the stage that would be deemed "unfit", the father (in my experience) is more often the target of subjective judgment calls than the mother.

Shortly after we were separated I was arrested for DWI. Just being stupid—whining about my marital problems with some friends in a bar, then tried to drive home. Blue light special. Anyway, my estranged wife refused to let me see the kids for several days, continually dropping innuendos about how she couldn't trust me with the kids, I might drive drunk with them, I better straighten out my life or I'd never get to see them, etc. Several months later I was "spotted" by one of her friends driving around with a "hussy" in my car, so for the next few weeks our schedules "conflicted", and I wasn't able to spend any time with my kids.

You know what? None of us are/were ready to be parents. It's harder than anything you could ever attempt, and it's impossible to do it by the book. I think I lost my book the third day, and I've been winging it ever since. Parents make mistakes all of the time, but as long as they love their kids and keep working at it, they'll get it right more often than not.

Carole
03-06-2006, 04:32 AM
Heh..mine got full custody a while back even though he never paid child support. He got it because he was better able to provide for the boys. (figger THAT one out, will ya?) Strange things happen when 4 different states have their hands in a child custody battle. Strange, and not always good.

Sheryl Nantus
03-06-2006, 04:35 AM
well, as a child who was raised by a divorced mother I *can* tell you that if you badmouth the father to the kids that you'll regret it.

my mother *never* said anything bad to us about our father despite his late support payments and infrequent visits - until we were old enough to ask our own questions and find out the truth she remained silent as well as supporting our contact with his parents, our grandparents to the nth degree.

when we did find out the extent of his neglect we made our own decisions as to how to proceed, but it wasn't with a tainted childhood filled with rants about what a jerk he was.

get some counselling, take the bum to court, next time get married before you have the kids and garnish his wages while keeping a smile on your face around the kids.

SC Harrison
03-06-2006, 04:43 AM
My Husband was a good father and paid all his child support even when he knew his ex was taking the money and spending it on herself.



Even after my two boys chose to move in with me at ages 17 and 13, I still kept paying my ex child support because I knew she spent all of it (plus her money) on the boys and my daughter.

TwentyFour
03-06-2006, 04:52 AM
LOL @ Hussy! My ex moved next door to me and had his Barmaid Hussy (who wasn't a thing like Jessica Simpson in Dukes of Hazzard, R.S. was THE Town Hussy!) and I still didn't fight with them, because I knew I didn't want him, and he and I both had moved on. If he couldn't see me when he seen my son, then he didn't want to see my son. That showed everyone what/who he really was. He has since moved out of state and is paying his support payments but he knows when he comes in to see his parents he is able to see his son. He has told me since my son was a baby that if I marry someone knew then I could get them to adopt our son and he would sign the papers (his parents say I am lying about this bc they don't want to believe he is such a deadbeat) and my son says he isn't sure about doing this. I asked my son if he would like it when my fiance and I marry to be adopted, to be honest, I don't want to do that! My son would lose child support and his father should have to pay him this money! My child knows his father won't visit much and when his father does come he makes empty promises. You know the kind "I'll buy you this or that!" But then nothing shows up and he would ask me where is it when will it get here. He soon realized his father lied to him and didn't mean to send him anything. I think children are smarter than they are given credit, when I tell my son I am getting him a gift, he gets it! He now knows this and if your ex is this way, your children will see it soon enough!

TwentyFour
03-06-2006, 04:58 AM
I wondered why there are two threads too? I gave good advice on the other one...

writersliving
03-06-2006, 05:04 AM
so all you people go on let the baby fathers do anything they want. but in my life and my children life. my kids father won't, but see that's me. you women just let men take advange of you, but I'm not if you want to be stupid and let the man see your baby if he don't pay. your promblem and only yours,
that you women stupid and gullable

tiny
03-06-2006, 05:06 AM
You're the one who got pregnant, babe. Chose his gene pool to swim in. Who's really the stupid one?

MacAllister
03-06-2006, 05:07 AM
I've merged these two threads.

robeiae
03-06-2006, 05:13 AM
Perhaps the question of intelligence should also be raised when considering who one chooses as a father.

Rob :)

roach
03-06-2006, 05:28 AM
If you have already made up your mind why would you come onto a forum to ask for advice?

It's not being gullible or a floor mat to let a father, even a deadbeat one, see his children, it's called being a decent human being. Children need to see adults acting as adults in order to mature. Show them meanness, even if not directed at them, and they'll learn to be mean. Show them decency and ... well you see where I'm going with this and others have already done a better job at making this argument.

I'm just going to add my own example to the mix. I've posted before how my MIL and I don't get along. But when I had Charlotte I made a decision that I would in no way interfere with my child having a relationship with her grandmother. At times that has meant that I have to send my husband off to his mother's with child in tow as I stay home. Sometimes it means I have to bite my tongue when we're all together. Perhaps, once you've calmed down, you can find a similar arrangement. If the father wants to visit have him come over when you are out and leave the twins with your mother, or even just stay in a different part of the house. But don't turn your children into pawns over a power struggle, it'll just end badly.

reph
03-06-2006, 05:59 AM
you women just let men take advange of you, but I'm not if you want to be stupid and let the man see your baby if he don't pay. your promblem and only yours,
that you women stupid and gullable
Excuse me? I'm not the one who brought children into the world without making sure they had a father who would live with them and do his part in raising them. Since you've already done that, it might occur to you that other people's moral judgments may be more trustworthy than yours.

ChaosTitan
03-06-2006, 06:28 AM
I'm still waiting for an answer to Eldragon's earlier post here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=518759&postcount=20). I'm sorry, writersliving, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. Three weeks ago you were single with no kids. Either you have just recently met this "deadbeat" and become pregnant with twins, or one of your thread statements is false.

Carole
03-06-2006, 06:36 AM
you women just let men take advange of you, but I'm not if you want to be stupid and let the man see your baby if he don't pay. your promblem and only yours,
that you women stupid and gullable
Thinking that you probably meant gullible because I don't really know what gullAble means, you think we are being fooled somehow? You do realize that by not allowing the father to see the kids you would be using them as weapons, right? What a shame. I do doubt, though, that any court in the nation would allow a mother to get away with it.

As far as being stupid............................

Nope. Not gonna touch it after all.

TwentyFour
03-06-2006, 06:40 AM
so all you people go on let the baby fathers do anything they want. but in my life and my children life. my kids father won't, but see that's me. you women just let men take advange of you, but I'm not if you want to be stupid and let the man see your baby if he don't pay. your promblem and only yours,
that you women stupid and gullable


That is just over the top, you don't even write like a writer! I think the moderators need to have a talk with you and possibly warn you on the name calling! I think us other women have taken a "grown up" approach to it, but little miss "Betty Broderick" here is using the psychotic method of be mean to the ex and harass him into paying more money! It won't happen lady! Grow up for your childs sake and stop coming on here making threads asking for advice when you only want to know ways to harass this poor soul who made the mistake of having children with you. Take a lesson from Betty Broderick and don't start this smear campaign otherwise the courts will deem you unfit and take your children! Maybe he left you for a reason and maybe he knows you won't buy your children anything with the money, WE DONT KNOW THIS? You asked for advice about him seeing your children, you asked so we would say "Yes! Don't let the scum see them!" Well now you know that grownups who been through it know that you just don't act like a Scarlett O'Hara and get away with it....

Frankly my dear, I just don't give a damn...!"

TwentyFour
03-06-2006, 06:41 AM
....was that too rough? Better yet, if you approve give me a reputation point! LOL

MacAllister
03-06-2006, 06:52 AM
It was a bit rough--however, the OP is also saying some pretty rough things.

Actually, I'm inclined to just close this thread. It's rather pointless to start deliberately inflammatory threads and then just insult everyone who disagrees with you.

Writersliving, consider this a formal warning.

rtilryarms
03-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Actually I tend to agree.

If the OP is not looking for, or taking, advice then I think none of this is any of our business. Except the OP wanted it so.

Now she does not.


It was a bit rough--however, the OP is also saying some pretty rough things.

Actually, I'm inclined to just close this thread. It's rather pointless to start deliberately inflammatory threads and then just insult everyone who disagrees with you.

Writersliving, consider this a formal warning.