PDA

View Full Version : Should I join a gym?



mccardey
02-16-2014, 11:32 AM
What do we think? I'm not overweight at all, but I'm kind of squashy.

On the other hand I'm pretty old, and squashy is fine for old people, isn't it? Or should I join a gym?

*sigh*

I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 11:39 AM
I've never stuck with it when I joined a gym or even an exercise class. I hate it. I hate the ugly basement looking rooms and everything else about it.

But, I do pretty well at home with my hand weights, walking/jogging, dancing, and exercise tapes. In the time it would take me to drive somewhere, I've got it done. And I can do the kind of exercise I want, when I want. Plus, it's cheaper. But that's just me. So I don't mean to discourage, but only to point out the other options.

mccardey
02-16-2014, 11:47 AM
I've never stuck with it when I joined a gym or even an exercise class. I hate it. I hate the ugly basement looking rooms and everything else about it.

But, I do pretty well at home with my hand weights, walking/jogging, dancing, and exercise tapes. In the time it would take me to drive somewhere, I've got it done. And I can do the kind of exercise I want, when I want. Plus, it's cheaper. But that's just me. So I don't mean to discourage, but only to point out the other options.

Oh god - I wasn't gonna go. I was just going to join.

Ugh.

Maybe not.

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 11:51 AM
Oh god - I wasn't gonna go. I was just going to join.

Ugh.

Maybe not.

LOL! Well, walking is nice and so is dancing. :)

mccardey
02-16-2014, 11:55 AM
LOL! Well, walking is nice and so is dancing. :)

I know - that's what bugs me. We've just moved to the country and oddly enough - in the city I used to go for a 2 hour bushwalk five times a week. In the country - specifically, here - there's nowhere to bushwalk that's walkable. It's all cows and stuff. And there's no footpaths either. I'm not complaining, I'm just - ok, I'm complaining.

I love walking. I can walk forever. But I need bush, or footpaths. Or no cows.

I was wondering about treadmill walking. But if I join a gym just to treadmill, they're going to make me do weights or something, and then there'll be tears. Because - squashy. No muscles. Not one.

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 12:04 PM
I have a treadmill at home. It was a few hundred dollars but gym membership adds up too. I think if you can just use what you want with a gym membership, though. But if you cry there might be a punishment! :p

mccardey
02-16-2014, 12:06 PM
Do you use it? I thought I might use one if I could read while I used it...

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 12:08 PM
Do you use it? I thought I might use one if I could read while I used it...

Yes, I use it when it's too hot or cold out but I like to walk and jog outside better. I don't think reading would work too well but I can watch tv if I turn it way up (my treadmill is loud).

mccardey
02-16-2014, 12:09 PM
Yes, I use it when it's too hot or cold out but I like to walk and jog outside better. I don't think reading would work too well but I can watch tv if I turn it way up (my treadmill is loud).

I hate TV. This isn't going to work. I knew it wouldn't work. Stupid squashiness. Stupid cows.

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 12:14 PM
Oh yeah, squashiness is awful. It sneaks up on me so quick now, too. Exercise DVDs, maybe? They have some neat ones. Yoga, bellydancing, etc.

mccardey
02-16-2014, 12:17 PM
Oh yeah, squashiness is awful. It sneaks up on me so quick now, too. Exercise DVDs, maybe? .

That's a good idea. I like that. I'll get dvds. Thank you. And I'll start looking out for a cow-free zone in the neighbourhood for walking in.

I'm not scared of cows, ezackly - I just don't like to bother them.

Fruitbat
02-16-2014, 12:30 PM
Yikes, cows would scare me. I do my hand held weights and exercises throughout the day sometimes. Especially when I'm in a mood where I hate it, nice to break it up into little sections. There are lots of "how to do exercises" things online too. Good luck.

cornflake
02-16-2014, 12:39 PM
Oh god - I wasn't gonna go. I was just going to join.

Ugh.

Maybe not.

:ROFL:

If what you like is walking about, and being outside, is there stuff at the gym you'd like? If not, are there alternatives?

You might check the classes at the gym and see if there's stuff that interests you - and/or try it out. Most will offer a pass for a day or two if you tell them you're thinking of joining.

Otherwise, have you checked around for an informal thing you might like? If there isn't one, maybe you could start one - like a lunchtime walkabout or something. Some other people may have or know of footpaths, or want to meet closer to the city to go walk for an hour and have a coffee.

I mean if you go out and bring your leash and make sad, puppy eyes, someone will probably take you walkies!

Ken
02-16-2014, 04:49 PM
You should move back to the city is what your should do.

Shameful suggestion to be sure.

ps When I checked out your website some months ago you did not look "squashy."
More like a runway model in my estimation.

mirandashell
02-16-2014, 05:02 PM
I bet, somewhere in the wonderful world of the internet, that someone has filmed their local walks and put them on You Tube. So you could be walking on your treadmill but looking at the Highlands of Scotland. Or Kilimanjaro. Or Hong Kong.

Chris P
02-16-2014, 05:46 PM
*raises little toothpick arm to vote in favor of the gym*

Sage
02-16-2014, 05:55 PM
The main problem with the gym, for me, is getting there. It's not far, it's just a mental thing. Once I get to the gym, working out is not a problem, but convincing myself to go is quite another thing.

When I joined this gym, I got a personal trainer. There was one day a week I *had* to go because I was paying for it specifically. The PT gave me a weights workout that I was to repeat two more times that week (with at least 48 hours in between each workout). On the other days I had many classes that I really liked and they were all included in my membership. So for the first 2 years, I was working out all the time because I do well in a class/teacher/homework environment.

But classes changed, my schedule changed, and I got switched to PTs that I didn't like as much so I eventually stopped PT, and over time I went less and less. Nowadays I go about once a week. Worth $30/month? I don't know, but since it costs a lot for that first joining and this is a much better price than their current ones (I got in before they opened and got an amazing deal), I will probably stick with it until I stop going altogether.

But getting to the gym (especially in this snow), that's the hardest part, trust me.

mccardey
02-17-2014, 05:05 AM
You should move back to the city is what your should do.

Shameful suggestion to be sure..

That's adorable. Extreme, but adorable. :Hug2:

SO, just to update you all, I went to the gym today (relax! I went to the gym: I didn't do any gymmery) and a perfectly nice young man with enormous shoulders said he thought I should take a brochure home and think about it. He gets points for clearly having the same kind of approach to gymmery as I do - ie: start by thinking about it. Slowly, mac, slowly. And also for having astounding shoulders.

Imma make me a cup of tea and think about joining a gym and that can be My Commitment to a Healthier Me for the day.

PS: He said it was okay to read on the treadmill, but not on the rowing machine. :ROFL: Like I'd be caught dead on a rowing machine! Still, I like his optimism.

Medievalist
02-17-2014, 05:09 AM
What about an actual bike and books on tape/mp3/cd?

mccardey
02-17-2014, 05:11 AM
What about an actual bike and books on tape/mp3/cd?

I have a bike, Medi. It doesn't seem to work. There are pedals.

Helix
02-17-2014, 05:27 AM
How could you read on a rowing machine anyway?

*puts on Prof Branestawm's multiple pairs of specs*

You'd have to make a book stand fitted to a harness to keep the text a constant distance from your eyes. Plus something to turn the pages. Perhaps that could be attached to your head and operated by an ear wiggle? Can you wiggle your ears?

Sage
02-17-2014, 05:39 AM
a perfectly nice young man with enormous shoulders said he thought I should take a brochure home and think about it.

This gym would have my business in a second. Every gym I've ever been to has been high-pressure.

mccardey
02-17-2014, 07:16 AM
This gym would have my business in a second. Every gym I've ever been to has been high-pressure.

Very big shoulders.

mccardey
02-20-2014, 11:52 AM
I gymmed.

It hurt.

One of you should have told me about the hurting. I thought we were friends. :cry:

Helix
02-20-2014, 11:57 AM
It's beer o'clock.

ShaunHorton
02-20-2014, 12:21 PM
My mom signed me up at the local YMCA and bought me a bunch of exercise clothes for Christmas last year. I never went. Not once. I told her I wouldn't before she spent all the money too.

I have a treadmill, a punching bag, and some hand weights and I think I'm doing fine.

One thing you can do though, get a desk treadmill. Then you can set up your computer, a book, whatever you want to do while you walk. I was reading about a guy who self-published thirty something books last year and that was his secret. He had a desk-treadmill that he just used pretty much all day and he wrote while he walked...

Lidiya
03-06-2014, 08:37 PM
I know some people hate the gym...but I love it. I've done a number of things such as exercise DVDs, pilates, etc etc and nothing has appealed to me except weightlifting. It's the only thing that will actually put muscle on you and tone you.

I have a schedule and a 100% clean diet. There's nothing that I love more than walking into a room full of power racks and dumbbells, and the smell of metal and chalk...mmm.

I adore making protein shakes and planning my food. I love everything about it really. So I just want to say that try going to the gym, get on a good program and do it consistently. Eventually you will adore it. The body needs exercise, just like food and water.

Hoplite
03-06-2014, 08:50 PM
PS: He said it was okay to read on the treadmill, but not on the rowing machine. :ROFL: Like I'd be caught dead on a rowing machine! Still, I like his optimism.

...I like the rowing machine...:(

I hate watching TV on any type of stay-in-place cardio machine (e.g. treadmill). My big feet slapping the ground means I have to blast the speakers to hear anything. I'd suggest getting a book-on-tape to listen to while you do your exercise.


I know some people hate the gym...but I love it. I've done a number of things such as exercise DVDs, pilates, etc etc and nothing has appealed to me except weightlifting. It's the only thing that will actually put muscle on you and tone you.

Yeah, I'm similar in that regard. I'm fine doing other things every now and then just for variety, but I keep going back to weights. The only other thing I regularly do is the rowing machine: it builds/tones muscles (so long as your not going for a leisurely paddle), and provides cardio. Plus it gives you an excuse to make manly grunting noises that the treadmill just can't.

mccardey
03-07-2014, 02:38 AM
...I like the rowing machine...:(

You don't have my arms. Clearly ;)

Lidiya - I'm starting to like the gym - but I'm still only treadmilling. I go up every morning at 6:30 for 45 minutes. It's lovely and quiet and I can read and walk at the same time.

DancingMaenid
03-07-2014, 07:13 AM
I'm too much of a germophobe to appreciate the gym, I think. I used to go occasionally when I was in college and had access to the gym there, but I'd end up freaking out about touching the equipment (even if I wiped it down), and feeling like I'd never be able to get my clothes clean. So, I'm not sure I'm an ideal candidate for the gym, which is a shame because otherwise, it seems like a good idea. I like using equipment, but have zero space for any at home.

Treehouseman
03-08-2014, 04:04 AM
Take it slowly! I found when I went back after having a kid (and 2 years away) I couldn't lift weights or do any more than 5 minutes on the elliptical machine (Its kinder on the old joints than a treadmill or stair-climbing, but the benefits of both.)

What you need to show your body is the movements it needs to make with the lightest weights possible for a week or two, then up the poundage gradually. The target - according to the latest whiz-bang research, is to aim eventually lift the most you can lift for 10 repetitions, 3 sets each. Apparently the high-rep thing doesn't help with squashiness.

But for the first month, easy-easy.

Walter Lime
03-08-2014, 08:26 AM
Personally I find exercise to be essential to writing. When I slack off, my writing suffers. I used to go to gyms to weight lift, but gyms changed a lot over the years and no longer appeal to me. Eight years ago I broke my bank acquiring my own equipment. Don't know the economics of it all, but I rarely miss a workout, and can lift anytime day or night in my own garage. It was worth every penny!

But for those who draw motivation from others, and enjoy socializing along with their exercise, a good gym can be the answer. There can be a lot of support there.

As far as running or walking--weather permitting, nothing beats the great outdoors! If you live out in the country anyway. In the city, or during real cold winters, I imagine a treadmill is best.

Exercise can be simple or complex, depending on goals and personality types. But in the end, just sweat a little every day and you've got it made in the shade. Works for me anyway.

benbradley
03-08-2014, 08:44 AM
The worst part about these gyms, at least in the US, is the big pressure to do a two year or three year contract. Once you've signed, you owe, even if the place closes down next month.

It's usually the low-pressure sales pitches that also have month-to-month deals available, and it's probably less monthly than what the high-pressure sales pitch gyms are for their "deal."

The second-worst part about a gym is making yourself go to it consistently. They won't MAKE you lift weights or do other tortures of your body, but they have those things available, and you should do some reasonable amount of them, both the weight-bearing machines (or freeweights) and the aerobic machines (treadmills and stationary bicycles.

I have an old Lifecycle stationary bike I've been getting on more consistently in recent weeks (a half hour every day), and the control panel is also a good place to put a book for reading. I get to read AND exercise at the same time, maybe even put some music on too, so I got no excuses not to do it.

I gymmed.

It hurt.

One of you should have told me about the hurting. I thought we were friends. :cry:
It's gonna hurt again, but not quite as much. In a few weeks or months (WHEN you keep doing it) it won't hurt at all, and you'll be less squashy.

Don't worry. Be happy.

mccardey
03-10-2014, 08:24 AM
Forty minutes treadmilling today and 35 on that thing that is sort of like ski-ing but without the entirely embarrassing sliding-backwards-downhill thing which is so much a part of my snow-and-mountain experience. (Also its pedals go up and down. Anyone know what that is? Is it a stepper? If I was going to call it something, I'd call it a stepper. Anyone?)

75 minutes all up which is more than an hour. I'm pretty impressed. I think me and the gym will be friends.

Perhaps it's something one has to grow into?

DoodleSnickers
05-25-2014, 07:56 AM
Perhaps I'm a bit late here, but I thought I'd add something to the conversation just in case (and hopefully, anybody else dropping in on this thread asking the same question will see it). I've had several people ask me this question (I'm a certified physical fitness trainer). What it all comes down to is what you want to accomplish.

If you're looking to get lean and lose some fat, or just generally improve your health overall, you don't need a gym. Pushups, running, squats, ab exercises, and a conveniently low tree branch for pull-ups are all things that you can do without a gym.

If you're looking to get very strong, on the other hand, a gym is pretty much the only way to do that outside of a Rocky-style montage.

So again, the question of gym or no gym really comes down on what you are personally trying to achieve.

NateSean
05-28-2014, 08:34 PM
I work in a retail environment that gives me zero time to sit down or be idle. I also walk to work nearly every single day, so I recently made some changes to my diet and I began deliberately exercising as opposed to just moving for the sake of what I do.

When I walk to work, I power walk. I do short sprints to cross the road and I take opportunities to walk uphill as often as I can. Sometimes I get a little fantasy moment playing in my head and I do a sprint as though I were running for my life from the Cornocopia, etc. It's weird, I know, but heck it works.

At work there's always heavy lifting to be done. I also do some squats before I punch in and I sneak over to the health and fitness section to lift the weights that are on display. Eventually I will buy my own weights, but for now, the ones on display will do the trick.

No gym is necessary and I'm the one that gets paid.

emax100
05-31-2014, 01:03 AM
I would say you can start by research tons of exercises you can do with no equipment or with equipment you can buy for pocket change relative to typical gym fees. Road work, squats without barbells, jump squats, ab workouts that can be done on a soft mat, burpees (more than a few elite athletes and fitness stars swear by them),variations on pushups/pullups/chinups, tire flipping if you improve your fitness and can find a large tire, the list goes on.

dantefrizzoli
09-24-2014, 05:23 AM
I believe you can do what you wish, I always tend to see older people at gyms but everybody goes to focus on their own body and health so don't worry too much about what other people are thinking or doing.

mccardey
12-28-2014, 11:52 PM
I think it will be better if you join a gym.

Wow, that's spooky! My gym opens up from its post-Xmas hols today, and in the last ten minutes I got an email reminder that I haven't been there for 12 weeks (ouch!) and a facebook note from a friend who asked how often I go. And now this thread reappears. It's like my gym has super-guilting-powers. I may head out there today, just to head off the shame...

On the plus side, I approach the New Year a kilo lighter than I was this time last year (but a whole lot squashier.)

allias
02-10-2015, 07:46 PM
Gym is to boring. Start snowboarding :)

Underdawg47
02-11-2015, 12:21 AM
I love lifting weights at my gym and afterwards it makes me feel so much better. I have been going to the gym for over 20 years and have always felt intimidated in some way but try to ignore those feelings while I am there. Lifting weights is good for your bone mass especially as you get older. It is about a two mile walk to my gym and I really enjoy walking and thinking about writing during that time. Another thing that motivates me is that there is a McDonalds right next door and I usually give myself a treat afterwards.

TheCuriousOne
02-11-2015, 02:31 AM
I'd say it depends on what you like to do. When I joined the gym, I found out that I preferred the machines to weight bearing stuff. So I wasn't going to use all of it. I liked swimming too, but that wasn't included. There was a timing problem as well. I'd work all day, then go home, and in winter, I didn't want to go back out again. And then when the weather got better, by the time I arrived everyone had finished working too and there would be no parking space for half an hour.

I bought an elliptical trainer on ebay, and found that was cheaper and I could commit better.

But that was a while ago...

I've just started exercising again after life had a lot of ups and downs and craziness, I'm using our Wii and I have started running (which I've always hated, but I've discovered that blasting music in your ears made things much nicer). I'm on a diet as well and I'm losing about a kilo a week. But I also feel better in my body (carbs were not helping - so hard when you live in the country of pasta!) and I keep warm in the evenings (even inside - oh the joys of finding out the hard way that the insulation in your flat is sub-par).

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that first, before joining, you need to work out what you'd like to do. Going to the gym is no better than doing stuff at home (I did yoga tapes for a couple of years and they were really great). See what is easier on you as well. Classes can be fun too. Mum has never been to the gym, she goes power-walking with her neighbours, and I'm 100% sure that her calves are harder than the abs of any of the headless men on romance covers :P

Also, what you might save on the gym, which is not always cheap, can be spent on your own equipment, nice sportswear (a great motivation) or rewards for keeping at it (great motivation as well).

And that's completely personal, but the only B.O. you get to smell when you're at home is your own (which is always sweeter, isn't it!). Edit: and you get less chances of catching athlete's foot from walking bare feet in the changing rooms. Okay, stopping the gruesome stuff now.

Best of luck!

T Robinson
02-11-2015, 05:11 AM
Gym is to boring. Start snowboarding :)

You may not know this, but she lives in Australia. I have never heard any of the members from Australia mention snow.

Mccardey? This thread will never die. What about snow?

ironman
02-12-2015, 05:20 PM
YOu should walk a lot. That works well.

Ken
02-13-2015, 04:57 AM
You may not know this, but she lives in Australia. I have never heard any of the members from Australia mention snow.

... though in dispute, part of Antarctica belongs to Australia:



The Australian Antarctic Territory (AAT) is a part of Antarctica. It was claimed by the United Kingdom and placed under the authority of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1933.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Antarctic_Territory

So snowboarding might still be managed :-)

poetinahat
02-13-2015, 05:19 AM
You may not know this, but she lives in Australia. I have never heard any of the members from Australia mention snow.

Mccardey? This thread will never die. What about snow?

Australia, believe it or not, has several ski resorts, and Olympic medalist skiers and snowboarders.

Helix
02-13-2015, 05:27 AM
Y'all should read about the Kiandra Snow Shoe Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiandra_snow_shoe_club) -- oldest ski club in the world.

mccardey
02-13-2015, 05:41 AM
Guys, please. I'm not snowboarding, skiiing or skating. I'd impale myself. Icily.

Helix
02-13-2015, 05:52 AM
Apart from it being the wrong season, there are always snow shoes.

What?

Snow shoes.

Bless you.

T Robinson
02-13-2015, 06:13 AM
Australia, believe it or not, has several ski resorts, and Olympic medalist skiers and snowboarders.

OK, thanks, I just knew that "I" had never heard anyone mention snow in Australia, figured someone would let me know.

mccardey
02-13-2015, 06:16 AM
Australia, believe it or not, has several ski resorts, and Olympic medalist skiers and snowboarders.

I didn't know that.

ETA: There's a lot about sport I don't know.

poetinahat
02-13-2015, 06:28 AM
Yeah, Alissa Camplin, Lydia Lassila, Torah Bright, and "Aussie" Dale Begg-Smith (a Canadian with Aussie parentage, IIRC).

The biggest ski resorts have higher elevations than Michigan's, but less than New England's. Still, there's skiing in Australia.

The snow can be great, but it's never light like the Rockies powder; the altitude isn't that high. Also, the snow can be fantastic on Tuesday, and gone by the weekend (or vice versa); you don't get the crazy seven-foot base that you'll get in the Rockies. Again, still, it's skiing - in Australia, through the gum trees. So, bonus!

Anyhoo.

Gyms are great if you go to them; every time I've had a membership, I've gone hard for two months or so, then I miss a few days, and next thing you know, I haven't been in a year. WiiFit at home was fun. These days, I run, and I play whatever sport with the kids.

That's my main fitness goal: keep up with the kids as long as I can. I'm also committed to a half-marathon in May, and I'll get there. But being able to play with the kids is the main thing, and it's real. I never really had a meaningful goal at the gym.

kaitie
02-13-2015, 08:42 AM
Have you tried group classes? I've found that's what works for me. Especially if you can find one that you enjoy. I'm pretty lazy about going to the gym just to work out. I'll put it off until they close, or go but just spend 20 minutes on an elliptical, that sort of thing, but if I have a class scheduled, I can't put it off until later, and it's a lot less boring than standing on a treadmill for half an hour. I know around here most gyms offer a lot of different types of workout classes. Once I got over the self-consciousness and realized pretty much everyone else there was like me (squashy and uncoordinated ;)), I didn't even get embarrassed to go.

Matchu
02-19-2015, 12:37 AM
Hi OP,

Either swimming, or working, I think. Or a skipping rope.

10trackers
02-19-2015, 12:53 PM
Putting in my inflation-corrected $0.02:

Late September last year, I was in a temporary wheelchair and I finally got a diagnosis for my chronic pains. It was gonna get worse and I WOULD DIE (not of my illness, but eventually, like a normal person. Added for drama). But yeah, it'd get worse. I would eventually be confined to a wheelchair for reals. Naturally I wailed, "BUT DOCTOR IS THERE NOTHING I CAN DO" and the doctor said, "Get off your ass and join a gym." I am paraphrasing.

I, much like mccardey, crossed my index fingers to ward off the devil whenever someone mentioned exercise of any kind. But I didn't much fancy toppling over into a pile of leaves every time I wheeled into a ditch either (I have poor navigational control over my wheelchair). So I did some research on the internet, found classes I liked (body pump and body combat are super fun) and dragged my 66-year-old mom along kicking and screaming to my gym of choice.

The harsh masters and mistresses at my gym told me that these classes were probably aiming a bit too high for me, since I resembled a vaguely human-shaped blob of fat tissue and water. So with a huge amount of reluctance, I started in on the weights and machines three times a week, once a week under supervision of a slave driver personal trainer.

And I love it. I love feeling myself getting stronger. I love seeing my body change. I love seeing my progress. And most of all, I love being able to move without effort, without pain.

So did I need a gym? Maybe not, but I sure as heck do need rigorous exercise. For me, the gym is the right way to achieve that. I really don't do anything at home but work, write and sit on the couch watching hot guys on DVDs. It helps that my gym is super fun, the trainers are all incredibly friendly and so are the people who work out there. I've never needed to motivate myself to go yet.

It does become fun. Even for notorious exercise haters.

Priene
02-19-2015, 03:22 PM
Apologies if it's been suggested, and I know you have this weird thing in Australia called 'hot weather' which can be a downer, but cycling is great, and modern bikes are much much better than they used to be.

Maze Runner
02-19-2015, 11:59 PM
Do something you like to do. Don't know what that is? Experiment. For me, it was karate and kickboxing. Haven't done either in a couple years, which is why I'm out of shape right now.

Teckmeister
06-28-2018, 08:04 PM
What do we think? I'm not overweight at all, but I'm kind of squashy.

On the other hand I'm pretty old, and squashy is fine for old people, isn't it? Or should I join a gym?

*sigh*

I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

I guess it depends on where you live and what kind of people you hang out with?

Take myself for example. I go jogging every now and then. Maybe 3 or 4 days per week. That's because I live right next to a park. So it's really easy to persuade myself to go for a run.

Also, do you have friends who would go to the gym together? For one brief period, I was exercising more than usual. That's because I made some friends who were into fitness too and we made a commitment to meet up every week for training. So it's easier to get exercising when you have friends to give you a push.

Marissa D
06-28-2018, 08:58 PM
It's a good idea to check the dates on threads--the last comment on this one was more than three years ago.