Pay to submit to literary/poetry markets?

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Karen Junker

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I just saw an announcement on some social media sites for a new literary review and was pretty excited. Then I read their website and they require writers to pay to submit work to them.

When I asked about this on my FB, a friend said that it's a common practice for literary magazines. Why had I never heard of this before? Why the aversion to it in genre circles and not literary circles?
 

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It seems to me that it's getting more common. If the literary markets do it more than the genres, well literary just seems to go by different rules. It's a much smaller market than commercial fiction and writer pay for stories is not as much a major factor in it all, imo. But most literary pubs don't charge writers to submit, so I don't see any reason to bother with the ones who do.
 
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Some markets require a token fee, often called a reading fee. For example, one of the most well-known markets, The Missouri Review charges a $3 dollar reading fee for online submissions, to pay for things like printing so they can read it, etc. That's somewhat common among literary magazines.


However, that doesn't mean you should submit to any mag that requires you to pay.

If you could link to the magazine's webpage, I'm sure several people here could advise you on whether it's a legitimate literary magazine and not a scam.
 

Karen Junker

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If you could link to the magazine's webpage, I'm sure several people here could advise you on whether it's a legitimate literary magazine and not a scam.

The magazine is just now getting started up -- it's the Tahoma Literary Review. http://tahomaliteraryreview.com/

One of my friends says she knows one of the owners and that she is a well-known poet.
 
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I read through the submissions guidelines.

I did find it a bit concerning that they say they pay this partially from submission fees. I don't think I've ever seen that before. And I don't find it 100% above board that they consider submission fees a form of revenue beyond paying printing and processing costs.

But they seem to be fairly legit, otherwise.


All said and done, I would not personally submit to them.
 
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Lady MacBeth

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To be honest, it is difficult to find a literary magazine nowadays that does not make you pay to submit. The rates range anywhere from $2 to $4. And not all of them pay their contributors.
 

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To be honest, it is difficult to find a literary magazine nowadays that does not make you pay to submit. The rates range anywhere from $2 to $4. And not all of them pay their contributors.

Since I write lots of flash, I submit lots of stories to lots of literary magazines. And no, I have not found that to be true. You don't have to pay to submit to most of the literary magazines, in my experience, and I wouldn't do it.
 
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Since I write lots of flash, I submit lots of stories to lots of literary magazines. And no, I have not found that to be true. You don't have to pay to submit to most of the literary magazines, in my experience, and I wouldn't do it.


I've looked into lots of litmags over the years. Very few of the prestigious ones require reading fees, and when they do, they generally explain exactly why. And it generally doesn't involve synonyms for "profit-sharing" or "new publishing model". Unlike this one.
 

Filigree

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I get comments occasionally along the lines of: 'But, Filigree, if everybody waited two years then none of these new markets would survive at all.'

To which I usually say, 'Fair enough. I'm still going to let someone else be their lab rat/canary in the coal mine.'
 

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I don't think it's common to pay to submit.

Not to good publications, at least.

I'd leave it.
 

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To be honest, it is difficult to find a literary magazine nowadays that does not make you pay to submit. The rates range anywhere from $2 to $4. And not all of them pay their contributors.


There are a tremendous number of literary magazines that don't charge you to submit. They're all over the place.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Money should flow to the writer, never away. A magazine that can't survive without charging the very people who make it a magazine isn't worth submitting to. The readers are supposed to pay, not the writers, and a magazine without enough readers to keep it going is useless.
 

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I get comments occasionally along the lines of: 'But, Filigree, if everybody waited two years then none of these new markets would survive at all.'

To which I usually say, 'Fair enough. I'm still going to let someone else be their lab rat/canary in the coal mine.'
I guess I like being a canary. I love submitting to fledgling markets because to me, its like getting in on the ground floor of an exciting new enterprise and riding the magazine up to success, developing a rapport with the new editors and having that lead to their willingness to print more of your work.
 

JustSarah

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Even if paying to submit were a good idea, isn't the idea of a print zine in general supposedly going the way of dinosaur? Not that I wouldn't love more issues of my favorite zines.
 

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Paying to enter contests isn't uncommon, but I rarely do that either. I'd pass on paying simply to sub something. (Apart from postage costs, to those dwindling markets that don't accept online subs.)
 

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I will only pay to submit something if the venue is worth it.

A national/international (and reputable) writing or art contest hosted by a great venue or organization? Sure. A small press or art co-op that appears to be underfunded outside their fees? Nope. Too much risk that the operation might sacrifice quality in order to bring in more subscription/subsidy/entry fees.

Start-ups are great. I've participated in a few. By now, I know to put down only as much as I can afford to lose - and to be unsentimental about severing my ties if things appear to be going downhill.
 

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I have never paid and never would.
Well... I admit I have paid $25 US to enter Romance Writers of America contests.
 

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I think as with a lot of the arts, the joy is in the doing and its purpose is not really the money. I like that and often send my flash pieces to places that don't pay.

However, I feel insulted when they require a fee, however small, to submit. Especially when they don't pay ro4 stories and/or they make money from the publications. Seems like playing it both ways to me.

I don't mind, though, when they have a separate "donation" button and those who like to (and can afford to) support the arts are invited to do so.

I agree with everything said about Fil's "two year rule." If writing is kinda your "outlet" and you're not so concerned with it if it goes under, go ahead. Just realize it has a very good chance of doing just that and what that means for that story. And as someone else said, yes, sometimes those start-ups do become the elite with time, and then you're in, you've got that credit. So, we all have our particular goals. I think as with many things, it's all in just being aware of what the deal is out there and how it lines up with what you want. When you misunderstand, that's when you get screwed.
 
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alexaherself

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I don't find it 100% above board that they consider submission fees a form of revenue beyond paying printing and processing costs.

But they seem to be fairly legit, otherwise.

All said and done, I would not personally submit to them.

Exactly how I felt.

I don't suggest that it necessarily looks like a "scam", but personally I would leave it alone.
 

stormie

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Since I write lots of flash, I submit lots of stories to lots of literary magazines. And no, I have not found that to be true. You don't have to pay to submit to most of the literary magazines, in my experience, and I wouldn't do it.
Same here. I don't always write flash, but still find most lit mags don't ask you to pay them when you submit a story.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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I agree with everything said about Fil's "two year rule." If writing is kinda your "outlet" and you're not so concerned with it if it goes under, go ahead. Just realize it has a very good chance of doing just that and what that means for that story. And as someone else said, yes, sometimes those start-ups do become the elite with time, and then you're in, you've got that credit. So, we all have our particular goals. I think as with many things, it's all in just being aware of what the deal is out there and how it lines up with what you want. When you misunderstand, that's when you get screwed.

I'm not sure I know what you mean. If you publish in a magazine that goes under, you still were published, right? You've given up first rights, which is what you would have given up no matter where you published or how long the magazine lasted.
 
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