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AllenC
02-11-2014, 10:37 PM
I need help for girl fun/adventure.

It's three chapters ( 11k words aprox ).

Story:

Girls meet in a plane, become friends, change destination to another country.
They go shopping ( and shop lifting ), then to Amsterdam where they have trouble with police, and rock the nigh in the disco.

I wish for opinion, validation of the girl-talk and POV. and line by line if possible.

PM me if you are interested.

AllenC
02-15-2014, 07:15 PM
Nobody? :( It's a fun reading. I promise.

mirandashell
02-15-2014, 07:23 PM
We need a bit more info, I think.

What genre, what age, where is it set?

Also are we doing it for fun or do we get anything out of it? Beta reading, when done properly, is hard work. So we expect our efforts to be given due respect.

So.... are you an experienced writer? Or is this your first novel? Are you offering a first draft or is it clean and typo free? Is the story finished or are we joining you mid-write?

I'm not trying to jump on you but you've only just joined so we don't really know you. And I'm sure you wouldn't hand out your time and skills without knowing what you are getting into.

AllenC
02-15-2014, 09:58 PM
Oh Miranda, thank you. I didn't realize of my faults. Let me answer your questions:

1. I try to establish a relationship with my betas, and I reciprocate to fellow writers.
2. I am an experienced writer, although English is not my native tongue.
3. It's my first novel book-wise, but I've wrote series for eMagazines before.
4. It's a final-candidate draft, already copyedited

My doubts are about female-female friendship and dialogs realism. Since I am male, no matter how good my mind is to get into characters' I consider it's always good to validate.

I hope someone is up to the challenge.



My novel is in the pre-market stage; it's full written but I am trying to make sure all the parts work well.

mirandashell
02-15-2014, 10:57 PM
What genre is it, Allen?

It always help to have a beta that is familiar with the genre. Even if you just want help with the realism of the female characters, there are differences between genres. For instance, you don't get the same kind of characters in a dark and grisly horror as you would in a light and fluffy chick lit.

AllenC
02-15-2014, 11:11 PM
Of course Miranda; as for the girls, they are in their early thirties. The genre is fantasy & romance. But it's circumstantial, aside a "fantasy element" that's her handicap, the story could perfectly fit MS fiction genre. This part in concrete is more about realistic adventures & humor, in a rediscovering life sense. It's on first person; this part specifically is about the MC coming back from an South Africa, where she get subjected to a surgery that cured her handicap, so life is all new for her, since before the handicap she lived in almost isolation. She took the chances on a surgery that could have ended in her death. She did it because a guy who loved her the way she was.

I would love to share the whole story, but I am waiting for the last four chapters (out of 22) to be copyedited.

I hope that satisfies your inquiry, and awakes your curiosity.
:D

Thank you for answering; I've gone a long way to reach this far, and I appreciate the feedback.

mirandashell
02-15-2014, 11:18 PM
Unfortunately it's not my kind of thing so I really wouldn't be helpful to you.

But hopefully with the new info, someone will be willing to help.

AllenC
02-15-2014, 11:26 PM
No problem Miranda; I appreciate you pointed out the lack of information.

Kathl33n
02-16-2014, 01:20 AM
So, are you looking for someone to read the whole story, or just the three chapters?

AllenC
02-16-2014, 06:36 PM
Hello Kathl33n!

Right now I wish for these three chapters being beta read, but if you like it I can sure give you the whole deal once the last 4 chapters get copy edited. It's very important for me the thumbs up for the girl-talk. I want to be sure what I wrote is realistic and that its quality suits the mind of a woman.
Anyway, since the chapters are girl-adventure-in-foreign-countries and girl-talk about men and life, you can read them with not much need of backstory.

So Kathl33n, what is not to be questioned for someone who questions it all?

troutkitty
02-17-2014, 01:42 AM
Of course Miranda; as for the girls, they are in their early thirties. The genre is fantasy & romance. But it's circumstantial, aside a "fantasy element" that's her handicap, the story could perfectly fit MS fiction genre. This part in concrete is more about realistic adventures & humor, in a rediscovering life sense. It's on first person; this part specifically is about the MC coming back from an South Africa, where she get subjected to a surgery that cured her handicap, so life is all new for her, since before the handicap she lived in almost isolation. She took the chances on a surgery that could have ended in her death. She did it because a guy who loved her the way she was.

I would love to share the whole story, but I am waiting for the last four chapters (out of 22) to be copyedited.

I hope that satisfies your inquiry, and awakes your curiosity.
:D

Thank you for answering; I've gone a long way to reach this far, and I appreciate the feedback.

I could give you a feminine opinion that says you shouldn't call women in their thirties girls. You certainly wouldn't call men in their thirties boys.

Kathl33n
02-17-2014, 02:57 AM
I could give you a feminine opinion that says you shouldn't call women in their thirties girls. You certainly wouldn't call men in their thirties boys.

I completely disagree.

There are plenty of references to "women" in their thirties and beyond who are perfectly fine being called girls.

In fact, the Golden Girls was a TV show about retired "girls" well past their thirties.

There are several Romance book titles who reference "ladies" as girls. Victoria Dahl has a book called "Good Girls Don't," as well as "Bad Boys Do."

http://www.victoriadahl.com/books-Contemporary.php#GoodGirls

Also, there were a group of "girls" who got together at a bead shop downtown in two areas where I have lived and they both have what's called "Girls Night Out." I can tell you there wasn't anyone there who was of school age, except one college girl. And she called herself "a college girl."

More:

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
The Girl Who Played With Fire
The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest

Kiss the Girls - James Patterson

I could go on...

AllenC
02-17-2014, 03:09 AM
Wow! What a point.

So, the girls appelative would be more about attitude and situation than about age, right?

mirandashell
02-17-2014, 03:09 AM
I could give you a feminine opinion that says you shouldn't call women in their thirties girls. You certainly wouldn't call men in their thirties boys.

There's also the fact that Allen has English as a second language so maybe you could cut him some slack.

AllenC
02-17-2014, 03:22 AM
Thank you Miranda;

Anyway this is a matter where everybody could be right at the same time. I mean there's age as a fact ( as the passage of time ) and there's coquetry.
It's obviously a subjective thing, but the younger-sounding the word the more attractive. Isn't it? After all, we all have a bored inner youth striving to get out, don't we?

People around me may not speak English, but the situation persist. There's the equivalent to "Don't Ma'am me" here too. And most of single women on their thirties would rather to be referred as girl than a woman here too. Well, in fact it depends -very much- on who ask ;)
Don't tell me it's not like that there too!

Kathl33n
02-17-2014, 03:32 AM
Wow! What a point.

So, the girls appelative would be more about attitude and situation than about age, right?

I am 42 and I don't find being called a "girl" offensive in the slightest bit. There are words that will always strike some differently than others. You'll never please everyone. What you could focus more on is how your characters feel about being called girls.

mirandashell
02-17-2014, 04:09 PM
In Britain, it depends on the situation. Girls if it's women that you know or if it's in an informal situation. Ladies if you are being more polite. Women if you are being technical.

AllenC
02-17-2014, 07:47 PM
I have a question; what's the feminine equivalent for "the guys" which seems to be the word in lack here.

chompers
02-17-2014, 08:09 PM
the gals

AllenC
02-17-2014, 08:29 PM
the gals

I've heard it, but it's not much used, is it?
In fact I had gal as a synonym of girl, and guy is not a synonym of boy.

what's the usage context for gal?

Putputt
02-17-2014, 08:52 PM
I have a question; what's the feminine equivalent for "the guys" which seems to be the word in lack here.

I usually say, "Hey guys" or "you guys" when talking to my friends, whether male or female.

With regards to "girl" vs "woman", I don't mind being called either one, but sometimes it is more appropriate to use "woman" rather than "girl". An example would be when you are talking about a subject that involves both men and women. I wouldn't refer to the men as "men" and then the women as "girls", as I would find that weird and condescending.

AllenC
02-17-2014, 09:08 PM
I usually say, "Hey guys" or "you guys" when talking to my friends, whether male or female.

With regards to "girl" vs "woman", I don't mind being called either one, but sometimes it is more appropriate to use "woman" rather than "girl". An example would be when you are talking about a subject that involves both men and women. I wouldn't refer to the men as "men" and then the women as "girls", as I would find that weird and condescending.

I agree on that. Just to refresh what are we looking for here I will put an example:

In my understanding, which I recognize may not be as good as I wish. Male stuff is often referred as "guy's thing", as Female stuff is often pointed as "girl's stuff"

That's a little bit the problem, I never heard of "gal's thing".

So, women, talks about themselves as "the girls" when they band together. While men says "the guys".

Confusing, right?

mirandashell
02-17-2014, 09:13 PM
In my experience, gal is more about your accent than the meaning of the word

Kathl33n
02-18-2014, 03:16 AM
Ladies/Gentleman
Guys/Girls or Gals (but not many people in my area say "Gals")
Boys/Girls
Men/Women

... and then if you ever watched Mel's Diner and you're as old as I am, Mel often referred to females as "broads." I've heard very few people use the word "broad," but it always came across as derogatory.

troutkitty
02-20-2014, 06:03 AM
There's also the fact that Allen has English as a second language so maybe you could cut him some slack.

Where exactly was I yelling at the person? I stated my opinion, which he explicitly asked for. Words have power, and by using "girls" when you mean to say women, you are reducing adult women to children.

It may not be meant as an insult, but it is still insulting. If a person is standing on a foot, the point is to remove the foot. Saying "don't be insulted; I didn't mean to step on your foot. You are too sensitive" does not fix the problem. Remove the foot and be more mindful the next time.

LA*78
02-20-2014, 06:32 AM
I would say 'guys' or 'girls' regardless of age. "Girls' night out" is an example. I would only use 'women' or 'ladies' if I was speaking quite formally.

troutkitty
02-20-2014, 07:51 AM
I would say 'guys' or 'girls' regardless of age. "Girls' night out" is an example. I would only use 'women' or 'ladies' if I was speaking quite formally.

And I have absolutely no problem with women choosing the words they want to refer to themselves as. It's just like the N word or the bundle of sticks word if you are black or gay.

Language has context. Ignoring the context is where people get hurt.