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View Full Version : JKR "wish fulfillment"/Ron and Hermione may have needed relationship counselling



Netz
02-02-2014, 03:04 PM
... admits J.K. Rowling (http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/showbiz/article/rowling-admits-ron-romance-doubts/118184/) in an interview with Wonderland, a lifestyle magazine.

I find it interesting that, even after her last book was published in 2007, J.K. Rowling is still thinking about how she might have written the books differently now. And I was also interested to read she stuck with her plot as originally conceived (I guess when you've created such a vast universe as the HP one you'll tend to be a plotter, not a pantser!).

gothicangel
02-02-2014, 03:37 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/harry-should-have-married-hermione-says-j-k-rowling-9102110.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/harry-should-have-married-hermione-says-j-k-rowling-9102110.html)

I haven't read the books or seen the films (well, I tried reading the first book, but didn't get past chapter 1), so I'm not going to comment. We've discussed author wish fulfilment before, and thought it was interesting that Rowling has brought it up now:



In a rare interview given to Wonderland magazine, she said: "I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfilment.Ē
ďThatís how it was conceived, really. For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione ended up with Ron.Ē

Thoughts?

gothicangel
02-02-2014, 03:52 PM
Two other threads about wish-fulfilment:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250414&page=2 (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250414&page=2)

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261670 (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261670)

*Just realized the first thread was mine (written in a moment of frustration, and have since discovered there is better HF out there), but I think thread 2 is a much better discussion.

kuwisdelu
02-02-2014, 03:54 PM
I wonder if maybe all fiction is either a fulfillment of either our greatest wishes or deepest fears.

gothicangel
02-02-2014, 04:00 PM
I wonder if maybe all fiction is either a fulfillment of either our greatest wishes or deepest fears.

I love that. In my case my fiction must be my deepest fears. :tongue

ap123
02-02-2014, 04:07 PM
I wonder if maybe all fiction is either a fulfillment of either our greatest wishes or deepest fears.

Or some combination. :D

BradCarsten
02-02-2014, 04:14 PM
Characters become so real that you eventually know how they will react in any given situation, and in this case, from what I understand JKR planned from the beginning for Hermione to end up with Ron and stuck with that, even when it no longer felt right. I would probably have to agree with her- those two would kill each other if they were real, but I do think it was a nice change for the hero not to end up with the girl.

Jett.
02-02-2014, 04:17 PM
[...] but I do think it was a nice change for the hero not to end up with the girl.

Agreed, though, it is nothing new that the girl ends up being someone's love interest...

Turhan
02-02-2014, 05:04 PM
I wonder if maybe all fiction is either a fulfillment of either our greatest wishes or deepest fears.

I'm working on my first novel, what I'd call 'High Fantasy' even so, there are definitely elements of both my greatest wishes and my deepest fears.

Persei
02-02-2014, 05:12 PM
I don't want to say I knew it all along...

But I kind of did.

Humor aside, I agree with what ave said. Sometimes you plan out stuff for a certain character and later on the story it just slaps you on the face with unexpected character development and what you planned no longer makes sense. Looks like JK followed her plan anyways...

gothicangel
02-02-2014, 05:33 PM
Characters become so real that you eventually know how they will react in any given situation, and in this case, from what I understand JKR planned from the beginning for Hermione to end up with Ron and stuck with that, even when it no longer felt right. I would probably have to agree with her- those two would kill each other if they were real, but I do think it was a nice change for the hero not to end up with the girl.

Even though I've never read the books, I always thought it was a smart move by JK to subvert the trope.

buirechain
02-02-2014, 05:44 PM
I feel like it would have been a much bigger problem if the two main characters had ended up together for wish fulfillment. Having the two side-kicks do it, especially when you're expecting from early on for Harry to end up with Hermione works well.

And, I'll add, while they're not too much alike, I never got the vibe that they couldn't work out, that they wouldn't be reasonably attracted to each other. We could debate whether or not their romance will last, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't think the relationship wasn't idea for a few years. Having that subtext almost makes it more real.

jjdebenedictis
02-02-2014, 06:14 PM
I only wish she regretted Harry/Ginny as much as I did.

Ron/Hermione felt awkward at the end, but she telegraphed that relationship from the first book, so it would have been a little weird if she didn't follow through.

Cathy C
02-02-2014, 06:24 PM
I only wish she regretted Harry/Ginny as much as I did.

Ron/Hermione felt awkward at the end, but she telegraphed that relationship from the first book, so it would have been a little weird if she didn't follow through.

Really? I pegged Harry and Ginny together at the beginning of book 2. Absolutely expected it and would have been disappointed with a Harry/Hermione pairing.

CoffeeBeans
02-02-2014, 06:29 PM
I am very interested in the full article when it comes out. I love the idea that she's still thinking about the way things settled with her characters.

As a very devoted plotter, I totally get Rowling's feeling that she had to stick to the plan despite how the books evolved. As much as I love my plotting and planning, I try to modify as the writing changes, but it's not so easy...

To be fair, if there hadn't been that epilogue, she could just say they split up after a few years and remained good friends...

Taylor Harbin
02-02-2014, 06:36 PM
I wonder if the angles in Heaven ever talk about Adam and Eve like this...

StormChord
02-02-2014, 06:36 PM
Sorry, Mrs. Rowling, but that ship has sailed. :LilLove:

HSLane
02-02-2014, 06:39 PM
As someone who never really "got" Ron/Hermione, I'm not surprised about this - they never seemed like they'd be a good couple. I know that opposites attract, but from personal experience, the more important thing is that the people compliment each others personalities. Ron/Hermione never really struck me as realistic for those reasons.

Rhoda Nightingale
02-02-2014, 06:44 PM
The blogosphere is blowing up over this. At first I thought it was a hoax that someone had put up just to stir the pot, but I guess that's not the case.

Only bothered by one thing: the "logic" that says Hermione not being with Ron dictates she must instead be with Harry. The actors have better onscreen chemistry if you do that, but I don't get that subtext from the books themselves. I assumed from either the second or third book (I read them pretty quick, can't remember) that Hermione and Ron would end up together, but I don't really see why it matters.

HSLane
02-02-2014, 06:46 PM
This doesn't really surprise me. Without going into the shipping wars, high school sweethearts have a high divorce rate; counseling seems like the realistic thing to do.

Rina Evans
02-02-2014, 06:59 PM
This doesn't really surprise me. Without going into the shipping wars, high school sweethearts have a high divorce rate; counseling seems like the realistic thing to do.

Yup. Plus, I think they would argue about a lot of things. Ron was kind of racist in an uniformed way, and that's great (http://emmagrant01.tumblr.com/post/46072225420/ron-is-racist-and-thats-great) (read the link). I started shipping them past Prisoner of Azkaban, so I'm not saying it as someone anti-ship, but there really are a lot of reasons why they might be on rocky ground. They clash a lot.

Cyia
02-02-2014, 07:18 PM
When she put Harry with Ginny, she was creating a visual recollection of James and Lily to torment Snape.

By putting Harry with Hermione, in a way, she'd be undoing the regret of not finding love with the best friend, which was Snape's biggest regret.

Zoombie
02-02-2014, 07:43 PM
I expect they're divorced by now.

...shit happens.

Nina Kaytel
02-02-2014, 07:48 PM
I never cared to much about the romantic pairings in HP. Harry/Ginny were started in the second book so I always figured it would go that way. I figured Ron would try with Hermione. I had a lot of problems with the seventh book and Ron/Herminoe didn't even make the list. I was more interested in he-who-must-not-be-named and Snape.

JoBird
02-02-2014, 07:55 PM
Ron and Hermione as a couple never worked for me. They just weren't a good match, and the relationship didn't ring true. I'm glad Rowling decided to explain what she was thinking.

Kitty Crocodile
02-02-2014, 08:01 PM
I agree. I can see how it would have been difficult for JKR to not go with Ron/Hermione, but I'm glad that she acknowledged it wasn't perhaps the right decision. I would have preferred to see Hermione with someone smart like her who could be a more equal partner than either Harry or Ron ever could.

And sorry if this is painfully obvious, but does JKR mean wish fulfillment in the sense that 'my decision to pair Hermione with Ron was the right decision ten[+ x] years ago and still is the best possible conclusion and guarantee of their happiness'? Because my other interpretation goes along the lines of 'I identify with Hermione Granger and I can only dream of having a partner like Ron Weasley!'. That's probably not what she means... :P

jjdebenedictis
02-02-2014, 08:08 PM
Really? I pegged Harry and Ginny together at the beginning of book 2. Absolutely expected it and would have been disappointed with a Harry/Hermione pairing.No, you're right that she telegraphed that one from early on too.

It's just that Ginny became so unlikeable in--I think it was book 6? When she shamed Ron at the top of her lungs in the common room for not wanting to date around. I couldn't understand what was supposed to be so attractive about her at that point in time that Harry should start falling for her. She's was a pretty cool kid prior to that.

Sage
02-02-2014, 08:19 PM
I think there's a lot of influence from the movies here. Hermoine and Harry's relationship is emphasized there, while Ron is shuffled off to the side.


When she put Harry with Ginny, she was creating a visual recollection of James and Lily to torment Snape.

By putting Harry with Hermione, in a way, she'd be undoing the regret of not finding love with the best friend, which was Snape's biggest regret.
I love this interpretation :)

Sneaky Devil
02-02-2014, 08:37 PM
It's just that Ginny became so unlikeable in--I think it was book 6? When she shamed Ron at the top of her lungs in the common room for not wanting to date around. I couldn't understand what was supposed to be so attractive about her at that point in time that Harry should start falling for her. She's was a pretty cool kid prior to that.

In her defense, I woulda done the same thing to my brother if he was running off at the mouth about who I was dating. Sometimes brother and sisters are just like that. :Shrug:

Netz
02-02-2014, 08:40 PM
I love this interpretation :)

Me too. :)

williemeikle
02-02-2014, 08:43 PM
I wonder if the angles in Heaven ever talk about Adam and Eve like this...

Which ones, the acute or the obtuse?

Hanson
02-02-2014, 09:03 PM
Which ones, the acute or the obtuse?
lol. the cute ones of course. the others are just too...obtuse...


Re 'Arry. Arry himself is the Pure One, the Christ figure. They NEVER get the girl. or rather, the girl never gets them. (except for a brief bit of feet washing or whatever.

Sage
02-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Threads from YA and Novels merged. I'm sending this to AW Roundtable too.

DanielaTorre
02-02-2014, 10:29 PM
It just goes to show how much pressure Rowling was under to get those books out. Had she gotten a chance to let those books rest for a while before submitting them, she would have taken a different, perhaps even more satisfying direction with her characters. Which sucks, because they are her babies.

Also, the pressure to publish is also apparent as the books got longer in the series. Frankly, most of them are unnecessarily long and could have used trimming. Which brings me back to my first thought. The direction in which her characters where headed in previous books couldn't be edited because they were already published. Having been too late changing her mind, she just kept going in that direction. One result being, I suppose, Ron and Hermoine.

Frankly, Harry and Hermoine had many tender scenes together, which would have been more satisfying. Oh well, that ship has sailed. :e2steer: That's why fan fiction exists, I suppose.

Rhoda Nightingale
02-02-2014, 10:43 PM
In her defense, I woulda done the same thing to my brother if he was running off at the mouth about who I was dating. Sometimes brother and sisters are just like that. :Shrug:

Agreed. I started liking her more in that scene. Yeah, you tell that slut-shaming brother of yours what's what. (I should probably add that I started to strongly dislike Ron in the fourth book.)

Cyia
02-02-2014, 11:05 PM
Also, the pressure to publish is also apparent as the books got longer in the series. Frankly, most of them are unnecessarily long and could have used trimming.


I think the author's said the same, herself, especially in regards to book 5. I seem to remember her saying it could have easily lost 150 pages without losing a bit of story. But at the time, those books were scheduled for printing MONTHS in advance, and required something like 1/4 of ALL of the paper being used for publishing. (maybe just fiction publishing, but I think it was all.)

OJCade
02-02-2014, 11:07 PM
Ha! I could never stand Hermione/Ron (always thought she was far too good for him). I'd hoped she'd end up with Harry, and (sad to say) was kind of crushingly disappointed that she didn't.

Being a study geek with uncontrollable hair I might have overidentified with poor Hermione.

*grumbles* right all along *grumbles*

Sneaky Devil
02-02-2014, 11:30 PM
Agreed. I started liking her more in that scene. Yeah, you tell that slut-shaming brother of yours what's what. (I should probably add that I started to strongly dislike Ron in the fourth book.)

My thoughts exactly. He was a bit of prat in the fourth book, as well as the seventh.

jjdebenedictis
02-03-2014, 12:31 AM
Agreed. I started liking her more in that scene. Yeah, you tell that slut-shaming brother of yours what's what. (I should probably add that I started to strongly dislike Ron in the fourth book.)Oh, I agree he was out of line. It's just I consider slut-shaming and--I don't know what to call it--virgin shaming? To be equally bad. A person should not be peer-pressured into becoming romantic/sexual if they aren't ready to be or if they don't want to be. It's a personal decision, either way. No one should be ridiculed or excoriated for their choice.

DoNoKharms
02-03-2014, 12:47 AM
I don't know, this kind of bums me out. You could certainly argue that Harry and Hermione would make a better couple in the long-run, but is that necessarily the most important criteria when looking at literature? Who has the least counseling sessions? Putting Ron and Hermione together was a much bolder choice, both from the sense of defying tropes but also from a broader social message. Harry and Hermione are both elites, the top tier of talent and prestige in the wizarding kingdom. The Weasleys were the rest of us, those not quite-as-talented or as brilliant or as destined, but nevertheless good-hearted and loyal. Sure, it might not have been a storybook romance, and it might have had plenty of warts, but having Hermione and Ron get together suggested a nice destabilizaton of "princes with princesses". Saying Harry and Hermione should've been together removes one of the series bolder anti-classist elements, and instead reinforces the "stay with your kind" divisionism that runs uncomfortably throughout the entire series (see: the unredeemable treatment of Slytherin in book 7).

Rhoda Nightingale
02-03-2014, 01:16 AM
Oh, I agree he was out of line. It's just I consider slut-shaming and--I don't know what to call it--virgin shaming? To be equally bad. A person should not be peer-pressured into becoming romantic/sexual if they aren't ready to be or if they don't want to be. It's a personal decision, either way. No one should be ridiculed or excoriated for their choice.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. Still it seems more like she's responding in kind than giving him grief for no reason. Ew. That sounds a lot like "he started it," doesn't it? Now I'm remembering why I'm glad my brother (god bless 'im) lives halfway across the country.

rugcat
02-03-2014, 01:29 AM
We've all had the experience of a book going somewhere other than what we had originally envisioned. Mostly, we go with it.

Rowling had a strong vision about where the series was headed -- and part of that vision was that Ron and Hermione would end up together. I think part of it was simply to avoid what would be a cliche of sorts -- Harry and Hermione ending up together.

But all books, much less series, develop in unexpected ways as they move along. And by the point in the time line where Ron and Hermione were ready, their characters had developed to the point where it no longer made any sense. Which is why, to many readers, including myself, their relationship seemed forced and artificial -- serving the plot, perhaps, but not true to the characters.

And I think Rowling sees that very clearly, which is why she now "regrets" it.

Sneaky Devil
02-03-2014, 01:39 AM
I don't know, this kind of bums me out. You could certainly argue that Harry and Hermione would make a better couple in the long-run, but is that necessarily the most important criteria when looking at literature? Who has the least counseling sessions? Putting Ron and Hermione together was a much bolder choice, both from the sense of defying tropes but also from a broader social message. Harry and Hermione are both elites, the top tier of talent and prestige in the wizarding kingdom. The Weasleys were the rest of us, those not quite-as-talented or as brilliant or as destined, but nevertheless good-hearted and loyal. Sure, it might not have been a storybook romance, and it might have had plenty of warts, but having Hermione and Ron get together suggested a nice destabilizaton of "princes with princesses". Saying Harry and Hermione should've been together removes one of the series bolder anti-classist elements, and instead reinforces the "stay with your kind" divisionism that runs uncomfortably throughout the entire series (see: the unredeemable treatment of Slytherin in book 7).
:Thumbs: Yes, this!

Persei
02-03-2014, 01:42 AM
Idk, just because Ron wasn't the right guy for Hermione doesn't mean Harry is the next obvious choice. I think if Rowling was to rewrite the novels I'm pretty sure she would pick someone else rather than Harry for Hermione's love interest.

slcboston
02-03-2014, 02:11 AM
I think, too there's a difference here between books and films. I'm actually re-reading the HP series to my daughter at the moment, and at no point have I ever gotten the "relationship" vibe from Harry and Hermione. They're friends. Good friends, but that's it.

Now, in the films, the two actors had chemistry, but that's a different thing from narrative chemistry.

And Ron's not always the nicest bloke (as my daughter pointed out last night). Frankly, I think Hermione still liking him, and forgiving him, redeems him from some of his lower moments.

Jamesaritchie
02-03-2014, 02:16 AM
You know, in this case, I don't care a whit what she did, or why she did it. I consider these to be one of the top three series I've ever read, brilliant books, and very, very good writing, and I loved the movies to death.

I do find it fascinating how often readers can't just take them as novels like any others, and let it go at that.

PhoenixFlames
02-03-2014, 02:35 AM
I agree with Jobird. It isn't a good match at all.

Rhoda Nightingale
02-03-2014, 02:36 AM
Is anyone else tripping over the phrase "wish fulfillment?" What wish is she fulfilling, exactly, by putting Ron and Hermione together? The wish to not deviate from her original story outline, or what?

Roxxsmom
02-03-2014, 02:49 AM
I only wish she regretted Harry/Ginny as much as I did.

Ron/Hermione felt awkward at the end, but she telegraphed that relationship from the first book, so it would have been a little weird if she didn't follow through.

I always thought Harry and Ginny would have trouble down the road. Ron and Hermione, at least, had the glue of their shared adventures and of knowing what it felt like to be helpmeet to the chosen one. Ginny was an outsider, and she'd rarely been allowed to share in their adventures or participate in saving the day, and had never been included in their secrets. I can see the family get togethers now. Ron, Hermione and Harry sitting around the table, talking about old times, and Ginny will be all, "Um, okay, I'll just do the dishes and put the kids to bed," and seething quietly over how no one took her abilities as a wizard seriously, because she was the younger sister who needed to be protected (even though Ron was always the one who couldn't have pulled a successful spell out of his stools).


Idk, just because Ron wasn't the right guy for Hermione doesn't mean Harry is the next obvious choice. I think if Rowling was to rewrite the novels I'm pretty sure she would pick someone else rather than Harry for Hermione's love interest.

I'm rooting for George. Poor guy had to be pretty lonely after his brother died, and I'd guess the loss would have matured him some. And Rowling mentioned in something or other I read that she had warmed to the notion that maybe Neville and Luna ended up together after all.

Of course, all three could have married people they met after they were done with school, the way most people in the real world do. How many high school relationships end in successful marriages? Granted, the wizarding world is tight knit, but even so, there are bound to be people from other parts of the world they could all meet. Not like long distance relationships would be a hindrance in Rowling's world.

G. Applejack
02-03-2014, 02:54 AM
(Found on Tumblr)

What’s that sound I hear? An ancient sound. The sound of Harry Potter shippers awakened and ready to do war again.

kuwisdelu
02-03-2014, 03:09 AM
I'm rooting for George. Poor guy had to be pretty lonely after his brother died, and I'd guess the loss would have matured him some.

That makes some sense.

I was just thinking Hermione strikes me as a girl who'd fit well with an older guy.

WendyN
02-03-2014, 03:09 AM
I always thought Harry and Ginny would have trouble down the road. Ron and Hermione, at least, had the glue of their shared adventures and of knowing what it felt like to be helpmeet to the chosen one. Ginny was an outsider, and she'd rarely been allowed to share in their adventures or participate in saving the day, and had never been included in their secrets. I can see the family get togethers now. Ron, Hermione and Harry sitting around the table, talking about old times, and Ginny will be all, "Um, okay, I'll just do the dishes and put the kids to bed," and seething quietly over how no one took her abilities as a wizard seriously, because she was the younger sister who needed to be protected (even though Ron was always the one who couldn't have pulled a successful spell out of his stools).
Yup. This. And with Ginny's fiery personality, I could foresee a lot of conflict and resentment w/ that. I think that if she was ultimately going to be paired w/ Harry, she should have been allowed a larger role in Deathly Hallows. If anyone should have been left behind 'for their own protection,' it should have been Ron.

As an aside, I've always kind of liked the Hermione/Krum pairing. They're both accomplished, though in different aspects of the wizarding world, so Krum could handle being married to the future minister of magic (or whatever she chose to accomplish) w/o feeling insecure about it.

_Sian_
02-03-2014, 03:45 AM
(Found on Tumblr)

Whatís that sound I hear? An ancient sound. The sound of Harry Potter shippers awakened and ready to do war again.

This. This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw this.

*peeks at tumblr, A03 and fanfiction.com*

*backs away slowly*

:popcorn:

Cyia
02-03-2014, 03:55 AM
I think that if she was ultimately going to be paired w/ Harry, she should have been allowed a larger role in Deathly Hallows.


I always wondered why she wasn't one of the people replacing Harry in the 7 Potters scene. If anyone could have pulled off impersonating his flying moves on the Firebolt, it would have been Ginny.

(Of course, I've also always thought that scene was pointless, considering Dobby could have snapped his fingers and moved Harry straight from the house to anywhere else he wanted to go.)

Emermouse
02-03-2014, 03:58 AM
Nice job, Rowling, as if the Harmoniums aren't insane enough.

Frankly I liked Ron/Hermione; I thought they were cute together. Me, I was pulling for Harry/Luna. Anyone else on this board into that ship?

Rhoda Nightingale
02-03-2014, 04:04 AM
Nice job, Rowling, as if the Harmoniums aren't insane enough.

Frankly I liked Ron/Hermione; I thought they were cute together. Me, I was pulling for Harry/Luna. Anyone else on this board into that ship?

*raises hand* Yep, right over here. I loved Ginny as a character, by the way, and never had a problem with her being Harry's GF at the end. But yeah, I got a bit of that vibe from Luna, especially when he takes her to the Christmas party. She's just so daffy and sweet, and seemed to "get" him in ways that the other characters didn't. They both see the Thestrals, they both understand what it's like to have no one believe them, they've both lost parents, etc.

Stacia Kane
02-03-2014, 04:09 AM
And, I'll add, while they're not too much alike, I never got the vibe that they couldn't work out, that they wouldn't be reasonably attracted to each other. We could debate whether or not their romance will last, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't think the relationship wasn't idea for a few years. Having that subtext almost makes it more real.


Agreed. I always thought they complimented each other nicely, actually; he made her less serious, and she made him more so.



Really? I pegged Harry and Ginny together at the beginning of book 2. Absolutely expected it and would have been disappointed with a Harry/Hermione pairing.

Me too!



This doesn't really surprise me. Without going into the shipping wars, high school sweethearts have a high divorce rate; counseling seems like the realistic thing to do.

See, I think it depends on the culture, though. I mean, I agree in general, but I know a lot of Mormons; they marry quite young, and divorce is pretty rare. (I'm not saying that's because their marriages are all wonderful, I'm just using it as a broad example of culture.)

I always got the sense that marrying young was a lot more common in the wizarding world; Harry's parents were high school sweethearts, as were the Weasleys, and most of the other adult couples I can recall. I think when most of the people around you marry young and stay married, you tend to do the same.



I don't know, this kind of bums me out. You could certainly argue that Harry and Hermione would make a better couple in the long-run, but is that necessarily the most important criteria when looking at literature? Who has the least counseling sessions? Putting Ron and Hermione together was a much bolder choice, both from the sense of defying tropes but also from a broader social message. Harry and Hermione are both elites, the top tier of talent and prestige in the wizarding kingdom. The Weasleys were the rest of us, those not quite-as-talented or as brilliant or as destined, but nevertheless good-hearted and loyal. Sure, it might not have been a storybook romance, and it might have had plenty of warts, but having Hermione and Ron get together suggested a nice destabilizaton of "princes with princesses". Saying Harry and Hermione should've been together removes one of the series bolder anti-classist elements, and instead reinforces the "stay with your kind" divisionism that runs uncomfortably throughout the entire series (see: the unredeemable treatment of Slytherin in book 7).

Completely agree, and a nice analysis. I really liked that Harry and Hermoine didn't end up together, not just because I liked that there was a major platonic female/male friendship that was shown as being just as intense and serious as a romantic relationship, but because having Harry end up with Hermione would have been so...typical.

And I agree that in the movies, perhaps, Harry and Hermione had better chemistry, but in the books there was a lot of--I hesitate to use the phrase, but--textual evidence that Ron and Hermione had more. Ron and Hermione had more fun together than Harry and Hermione; they seemed to understand each other better. They talked easily (there's a bit in, I think, COS, where Harry thinks about how when he has just Hermione to hang out with there's lots of silences).

And I'm not sure when she would have changed the story, but it's kind of clear from the beginning, and certainly from GOF on, that Ron was the first to think of Hermione as a Girl, and vice-versa. Honestly, if Harry had ended up with Hermione, no matter how happy Ron might have ended up elsewhere it kind of would have felt like Harry stole the girl his best friend liked, which would have been kind of lousy.

kuwisdelu
02-03-2014, 04:11 AM
Me, I was pulling for Harry/Luna. Anyone else on this board into that ship?

That makes sense to me, too.

But then, I'd have killed off Harry for real, and redeemed Ron's annoyingness by giving him the role of Samwise Gamgee in the end to Harry's Frodo.

Yeah, I'm evil like that.

rwm4768
02-03-2014, 04:13 AM
I always wondered why she wasn't one of the people replacing Harry in the 7 Potters scene. If anyone could have pulled off impersonating his flying moves on the Firebolt, it would have been Ginny.

(Of course, I've also always thought that scene was pointless, considering Dobby could have snapped his fingers and moved Harry straight from the house to anywhere else he wanted to go.)

Ginny wasn't one of the seven because she wasn't of age yet. Her mother never would have allowed it.

Dobby couldn't have snapped Harry to anywhere because the magic used would have alerted the Ministry through the trace, as it did in the second book.

kuwisdelu
02-03-2014, 04:15 AM
Honestly, if Harry had ended up with Hermione, no matter how happy Ron might have ended up elsewhere it kind of would have felt like Harry stole the girl his best friend liked, which would have been kind of lousy.

Or we coulda just had a threesome ending.

I like those.

And epilogues annoy me.

G. Applejack
02-03-2014, 04:20 AM
Nice job, Rowling, as if the Harmoniums aren't insane enough.

Frankly I liked Ron/Hermione; I thought they were cute together. Me, I was pulling for Harry/Luna. Anyone else on this board into that ship?

^ THIS. So much. Especially after the movies.

I almost wish JKR kept his opinion to herself (sorry). The series is written. It's done, and I'm not sure what a revisit like this does other than make everyone angst over what could have been.



That makes sense to me, too.

But then, I'd have killed off Harry for real, and redeemed Ron's annoyingness by giving him the role of Samwise Gamgee in the end to Harry's Frodo.

Yeah, I'm evil like that.


LOVE that idea.

Funny thing I also read one time. You notice how, when people ask "Who is your favorite character in Harry Potter?" hardly anyone ever says "Harry Potter"?

jeffo20
02-03-2014, 05:37 AM
does JKR mean wish fulfillment in the sense that 'my decision to pair Hermione with Ron was the right decision ten[+ x] years ago and still is the best possible conclusion and guarantee of their happiness'? Because my other interpretation goes along the lines of 'I identify with Hermione Granger and I can only dream of having a partner like Ron Weasley!'. That's probably not what she means... :PMy interpretation is she made the decision way back when, and she stuck with it because she wanted it that way, even if it didn't seem right in light of later developments. I doubt it was "I'm Hermione, and Ron is my [my man here]."

bearilou
02-03-2014, 06:28 AM
I still don't understand why she didn't leave the epilogue off and leave it open ended. :/

jjdebenedictis
02-03-2014, 06:41 AM
Funny thing I also read one time. You notice how, when people ask "Who is your favorite character in Harry Potter?" hardly anyone ever says "Harry Potter"?Heroes are boring. Gimme a nicely conflicted, unclear-of-motive character like Snape anytime.

*sigh* Harry Potter fandom, why can't I quit you? Every time I think I'm out...

rwm4768
02-03-2014, 06:49 AM
Funny thing I also read one time. You notice how, when people ask "Who is your favorite character in Harry Potter?" hardly anyone ever says "Harry Potter"?

I think Harry was meant to be the character you relate to and feel for, but that doesn't necessarily make him a favorite character. I personally loved Luna. Neville was pretty awesome too, especially toward the end. And Hermione.

Harry and Ron...I liked them, but they weren't my favorites.

Snape probably wins for most interesting, but I can't consider him a favorite character. I have to actually like a character for them to be a favorite character.

Now, most hated character is easy. Umbridge.

Cyia
02-03-2014, 07:22 AM
I still don't understand why she didn't leave the epilogue off and leave it open ended. :/

Because it was the first scene she wrote. THAT was the image she held to for all those years.


You notice how, when people ask "Who is your favorite character in Harry Potter?" hardly anyone ever says "Harry Potter"?

Luna and Tonks. :D

Kweei
02-03-2014, 07:37 AM
Well, I liked Ron/Hermoine and I'm glad she went that direction. The foundation for it was there early on and I appreciated the follow through.

But it's okay for writer's to have regrets. I don't feel like that invalidates what she wrote. What's done is done.

kuwisdelu
02-03-2014, 07:41 AM
I still don't understand why she didn't leave the epilogue off and leave it open ended. :/

That's why I hate epilogues.


I think Harry was meant to be the character you relate to and feel for

Hermione seems to be the most relatable character to me.

Seems harder for me to relate to full-bloods.


Because it was the first scene she wrote. THAT was the image she held to for all those years.

That was a darling that should have been murdered. IMO.

Roxxsmom
02-03-2014, 08:21 AM
That makes some sense.

I was just thinking Hermione strikes me as a girl who'd fit well with an older guy.

She was pretty smart, and Ron was a dork.

Actually, she strikes me as the sort who would spend a lot of years in school pr apprenticing, or whatever the equivalent of grad school is in the wizarding world, travel widely helping the house elves, and not settle down to start a family until she was a lot older, and then maybe hook up with a hot younger wizard ;)




As an aside, I've always kind of liked the Hermione/Krum pairing. They're both accomplished, though in different aspects of the wizarding world, so Krum could handle being married to the future minister of magic (or whatever she chose to accomplish) w/o feeling insecure about it.

Or this. Marry a famous athlete, and use his popularity to launch her own political career. Even with her heroism, and the Death Eaters out of the way, her muggle birth would be something that would be hard for some to swallow.

RichardGarfinkle
02-03-2014, 12:58 PM
Ship ahoy.
I was okay with Hermione and Ron and with Harry and Ginny.

But Harry and Ron are both slacker jocks. Hermione was a serious scholar. The only one who would really fit her combination of brains and bravery was Neville.

And Harry and Luna had a real empathy for each other. They touched on their alienated sides.

I know people love to ship Snape, but love for Lily was his primary motivation. There shouldn't be anyone else. Of course, following the logic that characters who hate each other at first sight end up in love, he could be shipped with Harry's aunt...

Netz
02-03-2014, 12:59 PM
I still don't understand why she didn't leave the epilogue off and leave it open ended. :/

Perhaps part of it was to draw a line under Harry's story so she wouldn't get asked constantly to write more adventures for him and the rest of his friends.

kuwisdelu
02-03-2014, 01:16 PM
I know people love to ship Snape, but love for Lily was his primary motivation. There shouldn't be anyone else. Of course, following the logic that characters who hate each other at first sight end up in love, he could be shipped with Harry's aunt...

And weird as it is, I actually think the most realistic ship for Snape is with Harry.

Dammit those darn fujoshi have converted me. Help.

Dreity
02-03-2014, 09:08 PM
Ship ahoy.
I was okay with Hermione and Ron and with Harry and Ginny.

But Harry and Ron are both slacker jocks. Hermione was a serious scholar. The only one who would really fit her combination of brains and bravery was Neville.

And Harry and Luna had a real empathy for each other. They touched on their alienated sides.

I know people love to ship Snape, but love for Lily was his primary motivation. There shouldn't be anyone else. Of course, following the logic that characters who hate each other at first sight end up in love, he could be shipped with Harry's aunt...

I would have loved to see Hermione and Neville end up together. I think they would have found a lot of comfort in each other considering what happened to both of their parents.

bearilou
02-03-2014, 10:01 PM
Perhaps part of it was to draw a line under Harry's story so she wouldn't get asked constantly to write more adventures for him and the rest of his friends.

And now here she is saying 'welp, I wish I hadn't...'

I got no dog in this hunt. But this does seem to be a great way to keep Harry Potter in the news!

MookyMcD
02-03-2014, 10:22 PM
And now here she is saying 'welp, I wish I hadn't...'

I got no dog in this hunt. But this does seem to be a great way to keep Harry Potter in the news!

That's exactly what I've been thinking through this whole thread.

Gilroy Cullen
02-03-2014, 10:42 PM
Personally, I'm glad she decided to put Ron and Hermione together. Not because it made sense, but because she could offer a message that men and women can be close friends without having to be in "a relationship."

Yes, there will be others who say the whole "When Harry Met Sally" motif has to come to fruition, but I disagree. If two people care about the other, their final decision tends toward each other's happiness. That doesn't always equal together. Nothing says the brightest wizards in their day can't be good friends, who can share anything with each other. Heck, I see Harry venting to Hermione about things Ginny does and Hermione venting about Ron's latest annoying issue. They're close friends. Nothing says anything has to go to the next step...

Phaeal
02-03-2014, 11:06 PM
Duh, everyone knows that in RL Harry and Hermione would have fought it out for Snape's scrawny godliness.

In my reading, Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron were givens from early in the series. That neither made for a compelling pair speaks not so much to intrinsic affinities as to Rowlings' awkwardness around romance -- her writing strengths definitely lie elsewhere. But at least the above pairs weren't the absolute I-need-a-godson-for-Harry train wreck of Remus/Tonks....

Pterofan
02-04-2014, 01:37 AM
Besides, for all we know, Ron's a god in the sack.

gothicangel
02-04-2014, 02:04 AM
The fallout ;):

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/03/harry-potter-fans-jk-rowling-plot-regrets (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/03/harry-potter-fans-jk-rowling-plot-regrets)

AshleyEpidemic
02-04-2014, 02:27 AM
I'm glad that she put Hermione with Ron. However, as she herself suggested, I never suspected that would be something easy for them. They have very different personalities and not in a complementary way. I always imagined them very much as the couple that did the dance and then once they got together it was bliss. Only for the honeymoon phase to fade and blow up in their faces. I just didn't see them lasting long term. They were essentially the couple that was destined to be together, but never could and for good reason.

Just because Ron and Hermione shouldn't have been together, doesn't necessarily mean Hermione must be with Harry. Harry and Hermione had a great friendship. There were moments of tension will they/won't they, but what male/female relationship doesn't have that moment. I'm talking about even between two parties who both see themselves as only friends. Harry and Hermione were a supporting relationship.

Honestly, a lot of the pairings that popped up in the epilogue didn't make sense to me. While some of them may have been set up in the novels, where you could see it coming, many of the pairings didn't have that chemistry that makes couples thrive.

Harry and Ginny never felt right, despite the set up. Ginny looked in from the outside. She showed her hand at being petty. She just wasn't a character to like once she was given a personality other than fangirl. Even worse, when Harry was with Ginny, there was no chemistry. They just kind of did their thing.

I thought despite, my own affinity, that Harry was going to end up with Luna. The two had this strange vibe and understanding of each other. I thought from the moment Luna was introduced that she'd be with Harry.

I won't get into who I think Ron, Hermione, and Harry should have been with because people might start looking at me crazy.

Sage
02-04-2014, 02:59 AM
I don't know, I think Ron made a big effort to grow during book 7, and I could see him continuing to grow into adulthood. In the books, Ron started listening more to Hermoine and caring about what she cares about. He made mistakes, but he also came back to right them. He got to be the hero during one episode with the Horcruxes, so that gives him a little bit to get beyond the sidekick phase he'd been stuck in his entire adolescence. He's never going to be clever like Hermoine, and he'll probably always be in idolized Harry's shadow, but of main three, he has the most ability to grow beyond his teenage self, and JKR put the beginnings of that maturing in book 7.

OctoberLee
02-04-2014, 04:56 AM
I'm rooting for George. Poor guy had to be pretty lonely after his brother died, and I'd guess the loss would have matured him some. And Rowling mentioned in something or other I read that she had warmed to the notion that maybe Neville and Luna ended up together after all.


Good god... Fred died? Clearly I blocked this from my memory...

The last few books are very vague for me. Probably because they're the only ones I haven't re-read. Waiting for books to come out takes a toll on my rabid interest.

CheG
02-04-2014, 10:11 AM
This is what I wanted to happen:

Harry/Luna
Hermione/Draco OR Hernione/Krumb
And Ron dies.

gothicangel
02-04-2014, 11:57 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/jk-rowling-harry-and-hermione-harry-potters-neverending-story-9105401.html

Interestingly, there seems to be a tension developing over once a book is published, who owns the story (obviously JK owns the copyright.) It's a good question: should she have just let go, and kept this to herself?

Kitty Crocodile
02-04-2014, 01:55 PM
As an aside, I've always kind of liked the Hermione/Krum pairing. They're both accomplished, though in different aspects of the wizarding world, so Krum could handle being married to the future minister of magic (or whatever she chose to accomplish) w/o feeling insecure about it.


Or this. Marry a famous athlete, and use his popularity to launch her own political career. Even with her heroism, and the Death Eaters out of the way, her muggle birth would be something that would be hard for some to swallow.

Yes! Hermione/Krum! I completely agree.

I would have liked to see Harry with Luna: a slightly unexpected pairing of two outsiders. JKR could have taken a careful look at the other characters she'd created over the years and considered their relationship potential (as one does).

Rina Evans
02-04-2014, 02:27 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/jk-rowling-harry-and-hermione-harry-potters-neverending-story-9105401.html

Interestingly, there seems to be a tension developing over once a book is published, who owns the story (obviously JK owns the copyright.) It's a good question: should she have just let go, and kept this to herself?

The author has a right to say what they would have changed. Now, maybe it's smarter not to, due to causing uproars, but this stuff about her not 'owning' the story anymore has my eyes rolling.

bearilou
02-04-2014, 02:42 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/jk-rowling-harry-and-hermione-harry-potters-neverending-story-9105401.html
Interestingly, there seems to be a tension developing over once a book is published, who owns the story (obviously JK owns the copyright.) It's a good question: should she have just let go, and kept this to herself?

I guess until this interview comes out (at least that's what I gather from the two latest links, I'm not a fan so I have no idea), where is it stated that she's trying to 'change' anything? She's just expressed regret that she forced something when writing, instead of going where it was leading.

Is she now trying to 'tweak her work'?


Rowling is not the first adored bestseller to seek to tweak her published work.

I thought she was just expressing regret.

Although I guess this holds the truest.


Hence, perhaps, some disgruntled fansí belief that her backtracking opinions have the power to sway their private fantasies.

um....okay.


However, only the obedient will really care.

Pretty much!

jeffo20
02-04-2014, 03:33 PM
Is she now trying to 'tweak her work'?
To me, 'tweaking' is George Lucas inserting new titles into Raiders of the Lost Ark, or popping new CGI characters/scenery, etc. into his movies. Tweaking would be some new printing of the HP series that is ALMOST exactly like the originals--but with bits and pieces changed. Rowling saying what she's said is not tweaking, in my mind. She's free to say what she wants, the fans are free to think and believe what THEY want.

Maybe she needs another epilogue, set five years after the first, with Ron an alcoholic wreck, Ginny gallivanting around the world with some new love, and Harry and Hermione about to share their first kiss.

Or not.

Stacia Kane
02-04-2014, 03:51 PM
I don't know, I think Ron made a big effort to grow during book 7, and I could see him continuing to grow into adulthood. In the books, Ron started listening more to Hermoine and caring about what she cares about. He made mistakes, but he also came back to right them. He got to be the hero during one episode with the Horcruxes, so that gives him a little bit to get beyond the sidekick phase he'd been stuck in his entire adolescence. He's never going to be clever like Hermoine, and he'll probably always be in idolized Harry's shadow, but of main three, he has the most ability to grow beyond his teenage self, and JKR put the beginnings of that maturing in book 7.


Agreed. Ron showed that he genuinely cared about the things Hermione cared about; not to impress her, but because he paid attention to what she said and thought about it.

I guess I tend to think of Ron as kind of an everyman. Ron is a pretty typical guy, IMO; why is he considered unworthy somehow of having an attractive, clever, special woman love him? What's wrong with Ron? Just because he's not the hero of the story doesn't mean he can't be the hero for Hermione.

kuwisdelu
02-04-2014, 03:51 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/jk-rowling-harry-and-hermione-harry-potters-neverending-story-9105401.html

Interestingly, there seems to be a tension developing over once a book is published, who owns the story (obviously JK owns the copyright.) It's a good question: should she have just let go, and kept this to herself?


The author has a right to say what they would have changed. Now, maybe it's smarter not to, due to causing uproars, but this stuff about her not 'owning' the story anymore has my eyes rolling.

Depends what one means by "the story."

Certainly, I think the author should have rights over the text itself and what is done with it. If she wants to publish an edited "director's cut" version with her desired changes sometime in the future, she certainly has that right.

That said, I don't believe the author is "the word of god" in their story once they have sent it into the world.

And I would say that even publishing a "tweaked" version results in two distinct versions, rather than a "correct" and incorrect one, possibly with distinct canons depending on the extent of the changes.

An author is certainly free to state their own interpretations, what they planned and intended, what they might have done differently, and also of course to edit and re-publish their text however they wish.

But I don't believe the author's interpretations are any more valid than anyone else's. Like any interpretation, it's what the text itself supports that's what matters. Not what the author says. And yes, I do believe an author can be wrong about what their own work says.

So, is "the story" the text itself, or is it the interpretation of the text?

I think the author has rights over the former, but no more rights over the latter than anyone else.

Kolta
02-04-2014, 04:37 PM
Like any interpretation, it's what the text itself supports that's what matters. Not what the author says. And yes, I do believe an author can be wrong about what their own work says.

Wrong as in...? To me that looks like dismissing their own interpretation of their work even though the rest of the post does acknowledge that they're free to have those interpretations -- it's just not more valid than anyone else's.

Unless we're talking about those writers who expect there to be only one way to view it, until they find they were completely wrong on that assumption.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing how what they believe their own work to say is necessarily "wrong", even if more and different interpretations than they intended resulted from what they wrote. At least not if we're saying that authors have just as much right to their own take on it as anyone else.

kuwisdelu
02-04-2014, 05:23 PM
Wrong as in...? To me that looks like dismissing their own interpretation of their work even though the rest of the post does acknowledge that they're free to have those interpretations -- it's just not more valid than anyone else's.

Well, interpretations can be wrong if they're not supported or are contradicted by evidence in the text.


Unless we're talking about those writers who expect there to be only one way to view it, until they find they were completely wrong on that assumption.

But mostly that. I think that was what I meant when I wrote that. (I haven't slept and it's morning now.)

RichardGarfinkle
02-04-2014, 07:59 PM
I have seen some authors of series try to replace parts of their early books in the series by writing later books meant to overwrite the previous canon with new canon.

Two examples from SF series:
Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover novel Sharra's Chain overwrites some of the earlier Sword of Aldones.
Christopher Stasheff's Warlock novel King Kobold Revived was meant to utterly replace the earlier King Kobold.

Siri Kirpal
02-04-2014, 09:08 PM
Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I hope she leaves what she wrote alone.

I was hoping for Harry/Luna. (And I wanted the ending to include those two opening the door in the ministry that's always kept shut as a way of wiping out Voldemort and crew.)

Hermione/Ron was a given.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

MookyMcD
02-05-2014, 12:18 AM
Fandoms are weird.

Lord of Chaos
02-06-2014, 05:11 AM
I'll be completely honest Ron and Hermione as a couple absolutely drove me crazy (mainly because while I felt Hermione's character grew as the stories progessed while 17 year old Ron was no different than 12 year old Ron).

That being said, I wouldn't have had nearly the problem if not for the damn Epilogue. Pretty much the only time I've read deus ex machina and thought it worked brilliantly with a shockingly happy ending considering how depressing Harry's life was until that point . . . only to have that come in immediately afterward and faceplant my entire experience.

Parametric
02-06-2014, 05:16 AM
Maybe she needs another epilogue, set five years after the first, with Ron an alcoholic wreck, Ginny gallivanting around the world with some new love, and Harry and Hermione about to share their first kiss.

I think I read that fanfic. :D

LOTLOF
02-06-2014, 06:04 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/jk-rowling-harry-and-hermione-harry-potters-neverending-story-9105401.html

Interestingly, there seems to be a tension developing over once a book is published, who owns the story (obviously JK owns the copyright.) It's a good question: should she have just let go, and kept this to herself?

Keep this to herself? Seriously? This is what we've come to? The AUTHOR is supposed to not express her opinion about her own work because, heaven forbid, some of the fans might not like it?

The story belongs to its creator, always and forever, even if they sell the copyright, eg George Lucas and the Star Wars franchise. Romeo and Juliet belongs to Shakespeare, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings belong to Tolkien, Harry Potter belongs to J K Rowling. Regardless of what some fans may think. I don't recall who, but an author put it succinctly when he said, ' a fan who buys a book is entitled to the book and nothing else.'

I know very well that there are some rabid fans out there who believe that if they invest either their money or time, or both, that the author should somehow feel beholden to them. That is not the case and will never be the case. If the author owes them anything at all, beyond the product they buy, it's to make the story as good as possible. The author does NOT owe the fandom a specific pairing, plot point, or ending. And I say this as someone who has written a whole lot of fanfiction.

When the fans start feeling upset with the author simply for expressing her opinion on her own work, they have developed way too big a sense of entitlement.

StephanieZie
02-06-2014, 07:05 AM
This gives me some peace on the issue. I wasn't at all thrilled with the epilogue and the vibe of "All the adventure is done, now all that's left is to pair everyone up for the happily ever after."

I didn't like Ron that much. I'm sorry, I just didn't. His few redeeming qualities were mostly overshadowed by how petty and bitter he could be. I never got the sense that Ron would have let Hermione continue to grow and accomplish anything without using her achievements to fuel his own feelings of inadequacy. And of course Hermione, being Hermione, would have done what she wanted anyway. And Ron, being Ron, would have pouted and resented her for it. I can't see that being a happy marriage.

Sage
02-06-2014, 07:37 AM
I was thinking about this today, and I wonder if the wish fulfillment wasn't for her three mains to end up all in one family. If Harry and Hermoine ended up together, as she wishes they did now, neither would belong to the Weasley family. By pairing them up as she did, both Harry and Hermoine become part of that beloved family.

shahrazad
02-06-2014, 11:04 AM
Nice job, Rowling, as if the Harmoniums aren't insane enough.

Frankly I liked Ron/Hermione; I thought they were cute together. Me, I was pulling for Harry/Luna. Anyone else on this board into that ship?

This is me. I thought Ron/Hermione were great in the sexy angry opposites attract way (but my numero uno was always Hermione/Krum).

I wanted to like Ginny/Harry, but the execution was so poor, I wish JKR was coming out about regretting that one. Harry/Luna were so great, with so much potential, it's a shame that didn't happen.

OJCade
02-06-2014, 02:25 PM
I never really minded Ginny/Harry. For me, Ginny was enough of a non-entity that I couldn't object to much of anything about her.

Ron/Hermione, though. Ugh. I agree it was totally telegraphed right from the beginning, but even so seven books weren't enough to make me like it.

There's a lot I love about the Harry Potter series, but I can't help but wonder if JKR is the George Lucas of the book world. Great, enduring series but not too hot at portraying romantic relationships. (And Dobby is possible the only fictional creation that ever approaches the same level of annoying as Jar Jar Binks.)

WendyN
02-06-2014, 04:41 PM
I was thinking about this today, and I wonder if the wish fulfillment wasn't for her three mains to end up all in one family. If Harry and Hermoine ended up together, as she wishes they did now, neither would belong to the Weasley family. By pairing them up as she did, both Harry and Hermoine become part of that beloved family.

I could see that. When you look at the first time he went to Platform 9-3/4, he's essentially alone in the world. It is somewhat fitting, then, that decades later, he's there again and is so completely surrounded by *family*

UndergoingMitosis
02-06-2014, 05:28 PM
I was thinking about this today, and I wonder if the wish fulfillment wasn't for her three mains to end up all in one family. If Harry and Hermoine ended up together, as she wishes they did now, neither would belong to the Weasley family. By pairing them up as she did, both Harry and Hermoine become part of that beloved family.

I've always thought that the reason Harry ended up with Ginny was because she wanted him to be a Weasley--and I always felt like their marriage would suck most, what with all the old times talk between the big three. It would be different if she was a true outsider, but she wasn't--she was right there, being actively excluded even though she wanted in. There's got to be some seriously bitter feelings there.

As for Hermione and Ron...I always liked the two of them together, but then, I'm always a sucker for the serious chick ending up with the goofball dude. Or maybe I am a sucker for this because I was a Harry Potter kid and Ron and Hermione happened, not the other way around. HP was a big enough thing in my life to worry about chickens and eggs here.

But yeah, I'm going to concur with the folks who think that JKR just isn't that good at romance. It's cool. That wasn't really the point anyway.

Christine N.
02-07-2014, 02:06 AM
Ginny worked because she ALWAYS loved him, from the minute she saw him on Platform 9 3/4 when she was 10 years old. She loved him for HIM and never once tried to change him or make him bigger or smaller than he was. She grounded him.

Hermione was more like his sister.

OJCade
02-07-2014, 03:05 AM
See, I have to disagree there. She loved the idea of him - at 10, she didn't know him. It wasn't about Harry-the-person at all; it was about what he represented to her, the stories she'd been raised on, the glamour of the boy who lived. She didn't actually get to know the Harry-the-person for quite some time, so any love she had before that was profoundly superficial, to my mind.

That might have (and probably did) change as she got to know him as a person rather than an icon, but it wasn't something that was given a great deal of page space. I didn't find it unrealistic, myself, but I didn't find it particularly convincing either.

MookyMcD
02-07-2014, 03:24 AM
***continues shaking head in admiration and awe of author who can make adults argue about what a fictional ten-year-old witch was thinking while waiting for a magical train ten years later***

Sneaky Devil
02-07-2014, 04:20 AM
I would have preferred if she would've done more with Ginny & Harry, and less with him and Cho. I never really cared for their relationship. To me, that one had zero chemistry. I also agree with others that have said romance just isn't JKR's forte. :)

bearilou
02-07-2014, 03:36 PM
I'm in agreement with the Mookster. This is a fantastic testament to an author's skill that she can have writers on a writing board discussing fictional 'ships seriously.

I hope to capture this with my writing.

RevanWright
02-07-2014, 09:39 PM
This...what...I...Hermione and...I just...

Everything I know is a lie.

sassandgroove
02-07-2014, 11:31 PM
wow this thread is already 5 pages.

1) I think Rowling is just trying to keep her name/Harry Potter in the news/public eye. I think she needs to let it rest.

2) Hermione is like Molly, how is it that people don't think she and Ron would work? Think about it. They are both bossy and have tempers and are the ones in charge. BUt they are also loyal and caring.

3) I like Ginny and Harry together.

4) it's just a story.

Christine N.
02-08-2014, 01:11 AM
Okay, I will amend the previous statement. Come to think of it, and with a quick look back, it was never made clear that Ginny knew who Harry was that first time on the train platform.

However, she heard about her brother's best friend, and THEN found out who he was, and had a crush on him beginning in the beginning of Book Two. She crushed on him and got to know him. Unlike most of the other girls in his life (Book Six?? What's her face with the laced candies?)

Sneaky Devil
02-08-2014, 01:23 AM
Okay, I will amend the previous statement. Come to think of it, and with a quick look back, it was never made clear that Ginny knew who Harry was that first time on the train platform.

However, she heard about her brother's best friend, and THEN found out who he was, and had a crush on him beginning in the beginning of Book Two. She crushed on him and got to know him. Unlike most of the other girls in his life (Book Six?? What's her face with the laced candies?)

Romilda Vane

And I thought Ginny said something on the platform, while Harry was already on the train, about wanting to see him when the twins said who he was?? I don't know. Maybe I'm not remembering right.

maggi90w1
02-08-2014, 01:26 AM
I'm not a fan of Ron/Hermione but I don't like her with Harry either. I would have preferred a strictly platonic trio.

Personally I ship Fred/Hermione and Harry/Cho, but that's just me.

Parametric
02-08-2014, 01:40 AM
1) I think Rowling is just trying to keep her name/Harry Potter in the news/public eye. I think she needs to let it rest.

I think JK Rowling is probably past the stage of needing to say controversial stuff in interviews to get attention. ;)

fredXgeorge
02-08-2014, 05:09 AM
Don't know if anyone has seen this, but here (http://www.hypable.com/2014/02/07/jk-rowling-ron-hermione-interview/) is the full interview. It's much more rounded than any of the out-of-context quotes we've seen everywhere and J.K. says Ron and Hermione probably would have been okay.


wow this thread is already 5 pages.

1) I think Rowling is just trying to keep her name/Harry Potter in the news/public eye. I think she needs to let it rest.
J.K. is a private person who rarely does interviews and even published under a pseudonym to get away from being just 'the author of Harry Potter'. Why must expressing her feelings and thoughts on her own books mean she wants to stay keep her name in the news?


4) it's just a story.Thousands, if not millions, of people around the world disagree, myself included.

redfalcon
02-08-2014, 06:14 AM
I thought Harry and Ron were both slackers, mediocre grades, letting their friend do most of the thinking. Harry is a one trick pony, how many Dark Lords are out there.

I think Ron and Hermione would be perfect for each other, she mothered them and would continue with Ron.

Harry got lucky with Ginny, she was smart, talented, and a redhead.

Viridian
02-08-2014, 06:48 AM
*ducks in*

...

...

*glances around furtively*

I don't like Ron or Harry. I think Ginny and Hermione would have been perfect for each other.

*ducks out again*

bearilou
02-08-2014, 07:17 AM
Thousands, if not millions, of people around the world disagree, myself included.

So it's...what? A religion?

:D

Roxxsmom
02-08-2014, 07:47 AM
Romilda Vane

And I thought Ginny said something on the platform, while Harry was already on the train, about wanting to see him when the twins said who he was?? I don't know. Maybe I'm not remembering right.

I remember Mrs. Weasley remonstrating with them about it, actually. Something about how the poor boy didn't need people staring at him like he was in a zoo or something. So yeah, I think Ginny knew who he was on the train platform in book 1.

fredXgeorge
02-08-2014, 10:50 AM
So it's...what? A religion?

:D
Lol pretty much.

Roxxsmom
02-08-2014, 12:27 PM
I think JK Rowling is probably past the stage of needing to say controversial stuff in interviews to get attention. ;)

True. And the story ended the way it did. Maybe Hermione and Ron needed counseling later, maybe not. They certainly aren't the first fictitious HEA couple that had potential issues brewing down the road.

I do think that Rowling should write some more MG or YA fantasy, though. Maybe set in her first wizarding world, but in another time, or maybe even another fantasy world entirely. She's good at it, and it's and what her legions of fans want. She can have more realistic HEAs in her next novel, if that's what she wants.

UndergoingMitosis
02-08-2014, 12:34 PM
So it's...what? A religion?

:D

Well, to be fair, it's 7 core books, 8 movies, 11 video games, 3 secondary books, an interactive website, a studio tour in the UK, and a freakin' theme park in Orlando.

Soon it will also be a spin-off movie, a stage play, and ANOTHER FREAKIN' THEME PARK (this time in California).

And that's not to mention all the fan created stuff, including (but certainly not limited to): several hundred crap-tons of fan fiction, musical groups, parody stage plays, youtube videos involving puppets and songs, and youtube videos involving neither puppets nor songs.

So yes. I think the puppets push it into religious territory.

LOTLOF
02-08-2014, 03:27 PM
So it's...what? A religion?

:D

No, that would be football.

Or Star Wars or Star Trek.

They're only a cult at the moment, but give them another twenty years or so.

fredXgeorge
02-08-2014, 04:07 PM
Well, to be fair, it's 7 core books, 8 movies, 11 video games, 3 secondary books, an interactive website, a studio tour in the UK, and a freakin' theme park in Orlando.

Soon it will also be a spin-off movie, a stage play, and ANOTHER FREAKIN' THEME PARK (this time in California).


There's one opening in Japan too

Kylabelle
02-08-2014, 05:38 PM
To me the interesting question is, why? Why do the Harry Potter books approach being a religion for so many? What is the cultural need and the human need being triggered here, if not fulfilled?

I read (IIRC) only the first four books. I have the impression most of the more interesting parts of the story happened in the later books that I never got around to reading. (Money, accessibility, life pressures were why, not because I got totally bored with them or the like. You know, your basic muggles issues. :D)

I also think it would be healthy for JK Rowling to write something different now. Healthy for her, healthy for her fans. Presumptuous of me, isn't that? :D It's really not my business, and who knows? Maybe she is writing something else.

Viridian
02-08-2014, 07:27 PM
Soon it will also be a spin-off movie, a stage play, and ANOTHER FREAKIN' THEME PARK (this time in California).

Ha! You're never seen A Very Potter Musical, have you? It even has a sequel.

UndergoingMitosis
02-08-2014, 11:14 PM
Ha! You're never seen A Very Potter Musical, have you? It even has a sequel.

Haha, I sat through BOTH. Those were the parody stage plays I mentioned with the rest of the fan things. :D

Nope, this new stage play will be super duper official. Thanks you Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter#Stage_production)

Cyia
02-08-2014, 11:54 PM
I also think it would be healthy for JK Rowling to write something different now. Healthy for her, healthy for her fans. Presumptuous of me, isn't that? :D It's really not my business, and who knows? Maybe she is writing something else.


Well, there was The Cuckoo's Calling.

Sage
02-09-2014, 12:04 AM
and ANOTHER FREAKIN' THEME PARK (this time in California).Oh, god, I can only hope.

Hanson
02-09-2014, 12:05 AM
Well, there was The Cuckoo's Calling.
You been reading my posts?

Poor aul JK. She did the em, inspired, 'Arry series, and now....


Still, pillows full cash, are just as soft as pillows full of feathers.

Hanson
02-09-2014, 12:20 AM
Just remembered the Great One's comments 'bout JayKay.

'I could wish she’d been a little more generous about admitting influences, but so what. A lot of borrowing always goes on in an active, vital art form, not plagiarism, just learning from each other. No harm in saying so.'

Read more: An Interview with Ursula K. Le Guin | TIME.com (http://techland.time.com/2009/05/11/an-interview-with-ursula-k-le-guin/#ixzz2slPnqvuf) http://techland.time.com/2009/05/11/an-interview-with-ursula-k-le-guin/#ixzz2slPnqvuf


Personally I couldn't get through the first installment, so not really a reliable source.

Main thing is, The Ginger got the Posh girl.


always a good thing.


:rofl:

Papaya
02-11-2014, 06:16 AM
That was a darling that should have been murdered. IMO.
I agree, the epilogue should have been ditched. I didnít know it was the first thing she wrote. Itís too bad she couldnít let it go by the time she finished writing the series, but Iím glad sheís saying something about it now because itís a good lesson on what can happen if you get too attached to an idea.

Laer Carroll
02-11-2014, 07:36 AM
I don’t know why that particular pairing is such a bad thing to include in a book. In real life LOTS of couples need counseling. Why should we expect the HP characters to Live Happily Ever After?