Illegal fights

Mariana said:

Hi to everyone!

One of my characters is a woman who works as a bodyguard for VIPs. I'm trying to make her story and I imagine her like a famous professional fighter at Mixed Martial Arts (something like Holly Holm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXB9-L2kwtU ) who then became more famous through illegal cagefighting.

I am wondering how realistic could be if I write that in these illegal fights she also fights against men and she wins them. I don't know much about martial arts or fighting, I do know that there are categories (I mean men against men, women against women, weight classes etc) but through Google search I can't find much about illegal fights where in fact "there are no rules". Is it realist if I write that she was so skilful and so strong that the person who arranged these fights was putting her also against men and with winning them she became more famous?? It's not really important for the story so if it doesn't make sense I will just write about women against women fights.

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Is the question just if a woman could beat a man in a fight? Uhm, sure.

Mariana said:

Something like that but... between a man and a woman who are both professional fighters... I don't know
Is it realistic or the strength of a man is undoubtedly much higher than the strength of a woman??

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There are different styles of martial arts that can capitalize on the differences between men and women, but the real importance is for one combatant to be able to control the tempo of the fight. A soft, yielding style could easily result in a female fighter positioning a male for a hard take down.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_(martial_arts)

Mariana said:

Something like that but... between a man and a woman who are both professional fighters... I don't know
Is it realistic or the strength of a man is undoubtedly much higher than the strength of a woman??

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No, of course that's not undoubtedly true. That's not even close to true.

Is Manny Pacquiao stronger than than Kate Moss? Sure. Is he stronger than Holly Mangold? Nope.

Is he a more skilled boxer than Mangold? Of course. If you put the two of them in a ring with no rules, he's a very skilled fighter and she's not at all, afaik, so he'd probably win handily. However, she's solid as hell, weighs more than twice what he does. could literally pick him up and toss him a good distance with no effort whatsoever and see above, is flat-out stronger, at least by one measure. If he couldn't stun her or dance around her fast enough to get some good punches in (which, again, I presume he could - he's fast, good and professional), I dunno - if she could get a hold of him so she pinned his arms?

Two people are two people. In a very broad, general sense, males of the species tend toward more muscular upper bodies. Any two people are any two people. Two people who can fight are two people who can fight.

Frankly, in a no-holds-barred fight, with two unknown people of not-completely disparate size or strength, both experienced fighters, I'd probably put the odds on the woman. She's got some areas of vulnerability that're easy to go after that a guy does not, and there's a decent percentage of guys (though certainly not all) who would likely at least hesitate before being quite as dirty back, and by then, he's on the ground getting the shit kicked out of him.

Boxer and self proclaimed fight fan here-

It depends. In the old days of boxing, some men who were much lighter defeated much heavier boxers. I doubt that would happen today because the way to box is now known, with a much more level field of nutrition and techniques. Basically, the weight advantage is really big, and to take on much heavier boxers is extremely difficult, almost impossible.

Yes, the difference between the man and woman's strength is really big. And, the man will likely be able to take a shot much better than the woman due to bone structure. That said, there is a way.

The woman might be faster than the man. If so, she must avoid grappling to win. She must be a 'striker.' My coach, a former boxer, actually sparred a prime Cung Le when he was in his 40's, and won using only boxing (he got taken down eventually, because he said his legs weren't young, but he avoided takedowns for a long time. Got kicked out of the gym cuz they thought he was a spy...long story, lol) and he told me that the key was to keep moving, never staying in the same spot. Your character would have to have good stamina to keep moving. To win, she would have to use power punches to avoid an opponent walking through her attacks. Also, hit and move simultaneously. She probably won't win by a finish, only decision. Unless she uses dirty tactics, or if she tires the other guy out. Or, landing a kick when the opponent is tired, because kicks are more powerful than punches.

Mariana said:

Hi to everyone!

I am wondering how realistic could be if I write that in these illegal fights she also fights against men and she wins them. I don't know much about martial arts or fighting, I do know that there are categories (I mean men against men, women against women, weight classes etc) but through Google search I can't find much about illegal fights where in fact "there are no rules". Is it realist if I write that she was so skilful and so strong that the person who arranged these fights was putting her also against men and with winning them she became more famous?? It's not really important for the story so if it doesn't make sense I will just write about women against women fights.

Click to expand...

I don't know much about how people set up such bouts, but the intention is that they will be entertaining. It is more entertaining to have evenly matched opponents, so if she is so skilled that she can win against a man who out weighs her, than sure that would be entertaining, so it might be done.

Chyna

Bigger biceps than Tyson...

Most men I know would not want to mess with her

Then again

This lady won against men in an international invitational

I know a lady the local Angels do NOT mess with. She looks like..just some lady. But they do not fuck with her.


Set her up right, you are good to go.

Fan of combat sports and MMA here:

If she's a freak athlete with muy thai skills and the wind of Cris Cyborg, I would imagine she could beat a man of similar weight, possibly 25 lbs heavier. Cris Cyborg trains with men, and she destroys women. All women. Look what she did to Gina Carano, who was being billed as the face of women's MMA at the time:

Cyborg v. Carano

In case it's not immediately apparent by the carnage, Cyborg is the tatted one in the sports bra with the cold, dead shark eyes. The TKO and those vicious punches to the head at the end...dear God.

Even if someone offered me a large sum of money to stay in a cage with her for three minutes, I'd decline. Then again, I'm not a trained fighter, and she'd probably literally kill me.

So, yes. If your MC is anything like a Cris Cyborg, I'd say she could handle men in her weight class quite handily; Gina Carano is no slouch, and you can see how well that worked out for her.

BUT...you would have to consider that in an unregulated and illegal cage match situation, steroids would almost certainly NOT be grounds for dismissal, and you better believe there'd be dudes on the juice. A woman's odds against 'roided up gents may not be so high, muay thai or no.

AgentCooper said:

Even if someone offered me a large sum of money to stay in a cage with her for three minutes, I'd decline. Then again, I'm not a trained fighter, and she'd probably literally kill me.

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I'm a retired martial arts instructor, and I certainly wouldn't want to fight Cris Cyborg. That woman is terrifying.

That said, the scenario being outlined here... it's a tough sell. Compare male and female fighters in the exact same weight class, and the key differences lie in higher bone-density and muscle-to-fat ratio in the men. Higher bone-density means a stronger 'internal structure'; higher muscle-to-fat ratio means more armour for that structure, and more force to exert in strikes or submissions - in essence, bigger guns. (See what I did there... )

I can certainly believe a woman winning an underground fight where she outclasses her male opponent with preternatural reflexes and technique. In MMA terms, a female Anderson Silva. (Although, note that Anderson's career ended due to his shin-bone being not quite as dense as it needed to be... [shudder].)

Or, I can believe it if she has a strategy that opponents don't know enough about to counter. In MMA terms, a female Royce Gracie. (Gracie won the original UFC matches while beating much bigger men, because nobody at the time knew what the hell Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu was or how to counter it.)

Or, I can believe it if she outweighs her male opponent by a margin equivalent to the difference in muscle-to-fat ratio between the two (and has similar fighting skills).

Those are the scenarios I can believe. Otherwise, we're back to bone-density and muscle-to-fat ratio, which all other things being equal is going to favour men virtually every time.

AgentCooper said:

If she's a freak athlete with muy thai skills and the wind of Cris Cyborg, I would imagine she could beat a man of similar weight, possibly 25 lbs heavier.

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Forgot to add, Cyborg might conceivably go toe-to-toe with a male fighter, but she is a juicer. The 'roids have increased her muscle-to-fat ratio beyond what is normal (or safe) for women. She may well have the best technique in women's MMA, but that extra muscle-mass on her frame is the reason she hits so hard.

Martial artist (albeit more as a hobby) here -

Yes. I think what's more important, though, is making sure that it's believable. Are some techniques/styles more useful in some situations? Yes. Does intelligence matter in a fight? Yes. As long as you write your character (convincingly) using their skills against another persons, I don't think you'll break suspension of belief.

I think that the best styles would be:

1. Judo- one uses balance, angles, throws, locks, and pins. This doesn't require brute strength; it is more technical and ideal for less physically gifted people.

2. Aikido- A lot of people think this is not practical, so you might not want to use it. Basically, using the opponent's weight and movement against them. Hard to use in real life applications.

3. Boxing- If the user has good stamina and movement, it is possible to hit and not be hit. Floyd Mayweather, although I don't like him, is an absolute master at this, you can look up his defense highlights. He waits for the other guy to come forward, then hits, or else dodges, blocks, parries, and hits back. If you want to see unorthodox defensive boxers, there is a 1960's Muhammad Ali who often dodged punches by milimeters, and countered. It looked like he got hit, but no, his depth perception was unreal. Pernell whitaker is just strange, no one has that style. Roy jones, naseem hamed, wilfred benitez, and willie pep are also good at dodging.