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sheadakota
01-26-2014, 05:35 AM
okay for a 9mm Beretta, which term ( if either) is correct;

He pulled back the slide putting a live one in the chamber.

He pulled back the slide and put a live one in the chamber.

doesn't the action of pulling the slide PUT a round in the chamber? So number one would be correct?

GHO57
01-26-2014, 05:51 AM
Are you trying to say the person pulled the slide back and manually inserted just a single round into the now open chamber?.. perhaps after clearing a jam/misfire? (only reason I'd call the round live... it's sort of their default status)

slhuang
01-26-2014, 05:51 AM
Neither sounds right to me (I'm not really talking factually, but contextually).

The reason is, there's really no case when you'd have a non-live round in the chamber. When you load a semiautomatic, it goes from nothing in the chamber to having a round in the chamber. It feels odd to specify "live." I'd say, "He pulled back the slide, chambering the Beretta" or "He pulled back the slide, popping a round into the chamber" or something like that. (It sounds like you have the correct understanding of how the weapon functions; you just wouldn't say it that way. :))

The only reason I can think of that you'd specify "live" is if for some reason you had a blank or a dummy stacked above your live ammo so had a blank or dummy in the chamber and you racked the slide to pop it out and chamber a live round. But there aren't a whole lot of circumstances under which you'd have a mag loaded with both blanks or dummies and live ammo; it would have to be due to some story contrivance.

eta: Oh yeah, GHO57 mentions if there was a jam/misfire -- then you might call a round live. But not when you're first loading the weapon. :)

sheadakota
01-26-2014, 06:01 AM
well, I put it that way on the advise of several military personal. according to my source- an army Ranger, that is the terminology they use to describe a round that is ready to shoot. They aren't writers so they aren't concerned with exactness i guess.

Quote from my source ( who is not available to ask this question to right now in case your wondering):

"If you are going in armed, make sure you have a live round in the chamber."

But without making to fine a point of it my question was really - does pulling back the slide place a round in the chamber- or do you need to pull back the slide and then - do something else to put a round in the chamber?

slhuang
01-26-2014, 06:07 AM
"If you are going in armed, make sure you have a live round in the chamber."

Well, see, that sounds just fine to me. :) It's all the slight nuances of context, I guess!



But without making to fine a point of it my question was really - does pulling back the slide place a round in the chamber- or do you need to pull back the slide and then - do something else to put a round in the chamber?

Yes. Pulling back the slide (and releasing it so it slides forward again) puts a round in the chamber if the chamber is empty and there is a loaded magazine in the gun. The procedure for loading a semiautomatic is: put a loaded magazine in the firearm, and then rack the slide to put a round in the chamber. Then the pistol is ready to fire.

What a lot of movies get wrong that you DON'T want to do is racking the slide when there's already a round in the chamber. That would pop out a perfectly good round to load a second one, and there's no earthly reason to do it if you haven't had a jam or a misfire.

sheadakota
01-26-2014, 06:11 AM
Thank you so very much!! That helps a lot! And yeah context is everything- I may need to re-word that sentence to make it read better

NeuroGlide
01-26-2014, 06:12 AM
"If you are going in armed, make sure you have a live round in the chamber."

But without making to fine a pint of it my question was really - does pulling back the slide place a round in the chamber- or do you need to pull back the slide and then - do something else to put a round in the chamber?

Working the slide chambers the round. And what your friend was referring to was that when you carry a weapon normally, you don't have a round chambered. A chambered round can fire if the weapon is dropped.

sheadakota
01-26-2014, 06:26 AM
ahh, well that makes perfect sense! Thank you! (people who don't shoot guns probably shouldn't write about them,huh?)

GHO57
01-26-2014, 06:27 AM
Yes, you have to release the slide too... either from the slide release button, or by just racking it (pulling it beyond the rear stop position and letting go).

As for the ranger... it's possibly a valid term. I wouldn't know the terminology the US army uses, I was FDF. We'd call the entire weapon live... because; "if it's not live, you're dead."

---ETA---

I've always wondered about Hollywood shootouts; If the hero actually has to rack the slide before the shootout (based on the lack of unexpended rounds flying about)... doesn't that mean he's been chasing the bad guy through the smoke and fire factory with an unloaded weapon? An unloaded pistol is basically a really expensive precision machined hammer... what exactly was his plan; catch the bad guy, dodge his bullets and pistol-whip him?

Squids
01-26-2014, 09:08 PM
well, I put it that way on the advise of several military personal. according to my source- an army Ranger, that is the terminology they use to describe a round that is ready to shoot. They aren't writers so they aren't concerned with exactness i guess.

Quote from my source ( who is not available to ask this question to right now in case your wondering):

"If you are going in armed, make sure you have a live round in the chamber."

But without making to fine a point of it my question was really - does pulling back the slide place a round in the chamber- or do you need to pull back the slide and then - do something else to put a round in the chamber?

No idea where they got that from. There is absolutely no need to specify that the round is "live." That's a meaningless term, because there are many kinds of rounds that are "live." The only rounds that wouldn't be live would be inert or dummy rounds, which are what you'd specify (like using dummy rounds for training on loading, etc).

For a 9mm Beretta, there are 3 weapons conditions:

Condition 1: Magazine inserted, round chambered, slide forward, safety on

Condition 3: Magazine inserted, no round chambered, slide forward, safety on

Condition 4: No magazine inserted, no round chambered, slide forward, safety on

When you have an unloaded weapon, it is in condition 4. You can then make the weapon condition 3 by inserting a magazine. In order to chamber a round, you will then have to rack the slide back and release it. The action of racking the slide back (pulling it all the way to the rear) and then releasing it will feed a round into the chamber. If you look into the ejection port, you can actually see the round ready to feed. Also, once you have released the slide you can ensure a round is chambered by checking the round chambered indicator on the right side of the slide (it's a thin metal strip that will be pushed out when a round is chambered).

If you lock the slide to the rear first, when you release the slide, the weapon will automatically be in condition 1 because the sliding moving forward will chamber a round.

In case you didn't feel like reading all that, if you have a magazine in the chamber, all you have to do is rack the slide back and let it go (do NOT ride it forward like they do in the movies, because you greatly increase your chances of double feeding or jamming the gun).

However, whenever we do weapons turnovers, the person arming up is given a clear and safe weapon with the slide locked to the rear, in which case they just insert a magazine and release the slide, automatically placing a round in the chamber (they do this at the armory under the supervision of the armorer). All they have to do at that point is draw, flick off the safety, and pull the trigger.

WeaselFire
01-27-2014, 01:28 AM
He racked the slide, chambering a round.

Jeff

sheadakota
01-27-2014, 01:46 AM
Wow, thank you all so much- I'm taking notes!

NeuroGlide
01-27-2014, 08:45 AM
As for the ranger... it's possibly a valid term. I wouldn't know the terminology the US army uses, I was FDF. We'd call the entire weapon live... because; "if it's not live, you're dead."

It's kind of a odd holdover. The gun range where I worked, some the instructors (can't say all) wouldn't give their students loaded weapons until they had finished basic gun handling routines. When they did they emphasised the students were handling live ammo.

drummerdad
01-27-2014, 02:05 PM
Several, other have already stated this, but pulling the slide back does not chamber a round. It will eject a spent cartridge, if there is one, but the action of pulling it back won't chamber a round. You must release the slide to do this. It is spring loaded, and will slide forward, thereby chambering the round.