Gunshot wound question

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Okay, I'm going to try this the way I have seen it recommended on other threads about gunshot wounds.

I need a character (teenage girl) to be shot and significantly injured, to the extent that a very good surgeon who is present isn't immediately sure she'll survive, but she does need to survive. The doctor has a military-style field medic kit and can use it within about two or three minutes to treat the injury. The character needs to survive and preferably be at least partly conscious for the first ten minutes and then on and off for the next few hours. They don't reach a real medical facility for several hours. The injured character needs to be recovering for several months but survive.

I was thinking a wound in the shoulder. She can have broken bones and a lot of loss of blood, if necessary. She should be able to sort of say or whisper a few words. Any ideas? How should i have my character shot?

And what would the medic character do first, second, third? He has another somewhat traumatized person on hand who is useful only for applying pressure to stop bleeding and not much else.

It would be best if she could talk within a few days. What would the initial recovery be like and when could the character sort of hobble about?

Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited:

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
1,282
Reaction score
212
Location
Southern USA
Look in this same research area. there was a question or two about gunshot wounds within the last two months. I remember much discussion about the different wounds and what would happen.

Again, look back under story research and there are some threads on this type of question that will help you till someone answers your specific questions. I do remember that shoulder wounds are very debilitating.
 

Nimyth

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
199
Reaction score
8
Location
SE coast of the USA
Head Shot

Okay, I'm going to try this the way I have seen it recommended on other threads about gunshot wounds.

I need a character (teenage girl) to be shot and significantly injured, to the extent that a very good surgeon who is present isn't immediately sure she'll survive, but she does need to survive. The doctor has a military-style field medic kit and can use it within about two or three minutes to treat the injury. The character needs to survive and preferably be at least partly conscious for the first ten minutes and then on and off for the next few hours. They don't reach a real medical facility for several hours. The injured character needs to be recovering for several months but survive.

I was thinking a wound in the shoulder. She can have broken bones and a lot of loss of blood, if necessary. She should be able to sort of say or whisper a few words. Any ideas? How should i have my character shot?

And what would the medic character do first, second, third? He has another somewhat traumatized person on hand who is useful only for applying pressure to stop bleeding and not much else.

It would be best if she could talk within a few days. What would the initial recovery be like and when could the character sort of hobble about?

Thanks for any help.
Head Shot trauma could fit, head wounds bleed like crazy. The risk of death from loss of blood especially if they can not get to a BB quickly is going to at the forefront of any medics thoughts in a head shot trauma. (Not a straight through shot talking about a significant impact with a low caliber)
 

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
429
Location
Floral City, FL
Plausible scenario:

Handgun, 9mm to .45, your choice, shot to right or left pelvic region. Clips the femoral artery but does not sever it (bleeds like hell but doesn't retract into the abdomen and medic can clamp it) and breaks the pelvis.

Medic will stop the bleeding with a clamp on the artery, clotting agents and packing the wound. Stabilizing the hip/pelvis with straps, she'll need to be transported on a stretcher, makeshift is okay. Loss of blood can make her drift in and out, especially if the medic can start an IV and push fluids to keep her blood pressure up.

Once at a facility, doctors will repair the artery, treat any infections, accessory wounds and work to heal the pelvis. Could be surgery and implants, could be splicing the bones or sutures, could be just positioning the break so it heals. With healing and therapy she can be walking in a month, back to almost normal in 3-6 months.

Write the circumstances as needed for your plot or timeline.

Jeff
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Nimyth, I need the character at least marginally conscious immediately so head trauma is out.

Jeff, thanks. Definite possibility. You think this is better than shoulder? Stretcher isn't really a possibility from the get go. Someone (not medically experienced) has got to pick her up (she's fairly light) and run about 150 yards to a truck in a combat situation, put her in the back (cargo space) of the truck. The medic then jumps in. The truck drives a bit wildly but the medic is then free to do fair amount of stuff. IV could theoretically happen within a few minutes but blood transfusion is an issue due to some other stuff and probably not going to happen for at least an hour or so. Stretcher is the main issue. There is too much combat going on for that. The character carrying her does have time to pick her up in a lying down position but not get a stretcher.

Otherwise, that seems to fit the needs. I'd rather have the character able to sort of sit up in a couple of days. I've had a wrecked shoulder before, not from a gunshot wound but pretty bad, so I have some idea how that feels and goes, which is why I was thinking along those lines, but this sounds good, as long as not having a stretcher isn't going to kill the character at this point. Many thanks in any event!
 

Nimyth

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
199
Reaction score
8
Location
SE coast of the USA
Nimyth, I need the character at least marginally conscious immediately so head trauma is out.
Head trauma victims are called the 'walking wounded' by the medics, they quite often are conscious and even somewhat ambulatory. They will fluctuate from consciousness, to semi- consciousness, as the fluid builds up in the brain, if the fluid is not drained they will become comatose and rarely fully recover.
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Yeah, I need her clear headed within a day or two and yet unable to run around, but thanks anyway. It is good to consider everything.

Jeff, one last follow up. I can't really picture how one positions a pelvic fracture to heal. The place they take her isn't really a hospital. Picture the infirmary of an small but fairly wealthy group. A real hospital is out of the question. What sort of special equipment would they need? Do I need to mention anything in terms of equipment to make it plausible? At that point, the POV is from the injured character who doesn't know much about medicine, so she's just commenting stuff like "and there was this thing keeping me from moving...." Thanks again.
 

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
Low blood volume can damage the liver and kidneys. The liver has excellent regenerative abilities and the kidneys can be bypassed temporarily with a dialysis machine. Either can keep her, if not bed ridden, hospitalized in a private clinic for quite a while, either waiting for a transplant, or slowly recovering.

If the TV show House is to be believed, treatment for a injured liver involves an indirect transfusion (no blood volume is exchanged, but blood from both subjects passes through a dialysis-like machine) with a pig.
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Okay, what would the doctor do about low blood volume if a blood transfusion isn't really a possibility? How long is it going to be a big problem? Any other major problems other than kidney and liver damage?
 

CoolBlue

I'm not a child! Give back my toy!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
82
Reaction score
8
Location
Canada
I need a character (teenage girl) to be shot and significantly injured, to the extent that a very good surgeon who is present isn't immediately sure she'll survive, but she does need to survive. The doctor has a military-style field medic kit and can use it within about two or three minutes to treat the injury. The character needs to survive and preferably be at least partly conscious for the first ten minutes and then on and off for the next few hours. They don't reach a real medical facility for several hours. The injured character needs to be recovering for several months but survive.
...
She should be able to sort of say or whisper a few words.
...
And what would the medic character do first, second, third?
...
It would be best if she could talk within a few days. What would the initial recovery be like and when could the character sort of hobble about?

Thanks for any help.

Hi Afarnam

You say you are dealing with a very good surgeon who thinks the character will not survive.

No such surgeon will think death imminent from the injuries you are contemplating, and then be able to rapidly reverse things after a 150m sprint.

The first thing we check is A irway, then B reathing, the Circulation, then D isability.

What would be plausible is perhaps something causing an A or B problem right off the bat, and then a different injury causing other concerns.

For example, what if the character had something in her mouth when she was shot, and choked on it? She might be blue and close to unconscious. Most surgeons would not be very comfortable with airway issues, and relieved to have found an easy fix that is nevertheless immediately life threatening.

Then he attends to the gunshot wound(s).

I would suggest a bullet to the mid thigh that shatters the femur. If it were to hit the femoral artery, she would likely die, or lose her leg if he can stop the bleeding in time. She would likely bleed to death if it takes 3 minutes before help is forthcoming under those circumstances.

On the other hand, she could have significant blood loss and tissue damage without lacerating the femoral artery, there are many other large arteries available.

Regarding previous comments, I very much doubt a low-velocity round such as a 9mm or .45 has sufficient energy to break a pelvis in a way that will require any sort of stabilization AND a wound in the groin area. High energy rounds could, but when they do, the energy released creates havoc with the pelvic contents. (The abdominal cavity becomes the pelvic cavity around the pelvis.) There is a very high likelihood of very unpleasant longterm sequelae.

There is no such thing as the femoral artery retracting into the abdomen (sorry Jeff). Perhaps you are referring to an artery retracting into a wound??

It sounds as though you do not have any medical background. If that is the case, may I suggest that you try to keep things simple, and then ask for feedback of your writing during the process of writing, to avoid glaring errors in concept or execution.

Good luck!

HTH
CB
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Hi CoolBlue,

Nope, I don't have much medical background other than a life spent mostly dealing with health issues without the help of doctors. That makes this hard and I've got several medical questions in this story. I am doing just as you say, asking in the process of writing.

From what you say, it sounds like you don't think there is a type of injury that fits my scenario. Okay, let me modify a little. The doctor in question is good in that he is smart and quick but he isn't very experienced, only a couple of years out fo medical school. I'm thinking in terms of he isn't sure if he can stop major bleeding enough in the dicey conditions (jumping into the back of a semi-truck that immediately starts driving fast around corners, while he's trying to clamp an artery with a headlamp as his only light source, that sort of thing). That is why he would think she might not survive. I'm hoping I can find a plausible scenario here. If it isn't realistic to survive damage to a major artery under these conditions, then what is realistic in terms of dangerous loss of blood?

Again, I can go back to a shoulder wound, which could involve a lung and/or major blood vessels. I've had a messed up shoulder that included a cracked rib that supposedly damaged my lung somehow and caused a very small collapse in part of my lung (resulting in one of my few experiences with a hospital). I was told I had the most mild possible form of something very serious. So, I have a tiny bit of experience in describing things in that area and would be happy to go back to shoulder wounds, if you could give me a plausible scenario.

Thanks a bundle in any event. I'm still working on this and will take all advice into consideration.

P.S. Anyone, if you are already suffering from dangerous loss of blood, how would alcohol affect you differently than normal?
 

CoolBlue

I'm not a child! Give back my toy!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
82
Reaction score
8
Location
Canada
Hi CoolBlue,

then what is realistic in terms of dangerous loss of blood?

From my post:

"I would suggest a bullet to the mid thigh that shatters the femur. If it were to hit the femoral artery, she would likely die, or lose her leg if he can stop the bleeding in time. She would likely bleed to death if it takes 3 minutes before help is forthcoming under those circumstances.

On the other hand, she could have significant blood loss and tissue damage without lacerating the femoral artery, there are many other large arteries available."

A pneumothorax, while dramatic, is relatively easy to recover from, although broken ribs are painful, and take a while to heal.

Alcohol impairs the ability to compensate for shock.

HTH
CB
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Okay, but, because I'm a dunce, why can't I have the shot break her pelvis instead of her femur? You said the caliber mentioned wouldn't be enough to break it enough to need stabilization. A. I don't actually have to mention the caliber because the POV character doesn't know guns. Would be nice to figure out just for background but doesn't have to be mentioned that I know of yet. B. I don't really want it to need major stabilization, just to take a long time to heal. A good crack would do it. That should take at least a few months before she can go running off and doing physically demanding things. Would that work theoretically?

Again, I don't need the doctor to think she will surely die and then suddenly reverse his opinion. He simply has to be very worried, given the conditions.

How long does it take to recover from the huge loss of blood part? Would she feel tired, short of breath, foggy, what?

Many thanks.
 

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
429
Location
Floral City, FL
Any fracture can be stabilized in place and heal, though it may heal slightly off. It's hard to splint a pelvis, so packing blankets around the patient and strapping in place would work.

Shoulder injuries are problematic because, in addition to serious bone fractures, there are a ton of vital nerves and arteries in the shoulder area, making recovery without disability extremely difficult. Even in a hospital.

A shattered femur works, with a shorter recovery time and would not appear life threatening. If antibiotics are available, a gut wound, stomach, intestines, etc. (Not vital organs or blood vessels) with septicemia after the fact can provide results similar to what you describe. An advantage is she would be able to walk, with assistance, to your truck.

Recovery from a large blood loss would be an infusion, if blood is available (can be from fellow combatants donating) or simply pushing fluids and nutrients. She would be tired, lethargic and unable to do much for a week or so, then gradually get better as her body replenishes her blood. Severe blood loss would worry a doctor.

Jeff
 
Last edited:

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
Okay, what would the doctor do about low blood volume if a blood transfusion isn't really a possibility? How long is it going to be a big problem? Any other major problems other than kidney and liver damage?

A simple IV and pressure bandage would be the best field treatment. If she's awake, she would be thirsty (her body is pulling water out of her cells to boost blood volume) and she would want to drink. This is common with gunshot wounds, military commanders always ration extra water for the wounded. It's hard to say how long liver and/or kidney damage would be an issue as they would primarily be complications to other medical problems. With an injury to liver or kidneys, the body's ability to filter fatigue poisons is reduced, complicating and slowing recovery from other injuries.

Coolblue's suggestion of a pneumothorax is a good one. It's where you get air in the chest cavity which causes difficulty breathing, usually causes by a punctured lung. It puncture needs surgery to repair, but you can field treat by cutting into the chest and venting the air. They prefer the patient be out for this, but that's not always possible.

It sounds to me like you need an injury that is potentially fatal, but slow and easily treatable with proper medical attention (which is not available due to situation which caused said injury). Once she is clear of the initial situation, she can receive life saving treatment and concern can shift to secondary effects of the injury and complications caused by the delay in onset of treatment. Am I correct?
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Pneumothorax is good for the immediate thing and I even know how to describe it but it isn't long-term enough.

I'm still thinking the cracked pelvis is a good idea. I get the feeling that even a crack that is mostly held together would be problematic enough for quite awhile. I can't believe it is impossible to have a cracked pelvis without complete shattering and major internal damage and we don't need a common scenario, just a possible scenario. Any one with medical experience that I've talked to says uncommon things happen all the time.

Right now I'm most concerned with the problem that if I say the femoral artery is damaged and can't be repaired entirely for a couple of hours, people with medical background will say she would have to lose her leg. Should I just say major arteries or a major vein or something, rather than the femoral artery, or is there a way to have that damaged but not severed and work in this scenario. I like the drama of having a major artery damaged given the plot considerations but if it doesn't work I don't want to be too screwy. :)

Thanks for the recovery stuff. That's precisely what I needed on that.

P.S. She is light enough to be fully carried by the person carrying her to the truck. I should probably clarify that she's technically a teen girl but significantly smaller than average in build.
 
Last edited:

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
CoolBlue, on the pneumothorax idea, what happens if a person has a punctured lung due to broken ribs in a serious way (this not being gun related)?

Can they not breathe at all unaided? Would they need a respirator or would that not help? How long can they survive without getting surgery if they have say an oxygen mask like I've seen some people use even on the move?

Would they then have air in their chest that has to be let out you say but that doesn't fix the fact that they have a punctured lung, does it? Does it then have to be done periodically?

What would happen if they had also been forced to inhale water beforehand? I know you don't generally inhale water from regular drowning. This is different.

Both of these conditions need to be somewhere on the continuum of severity to fit the plot. It is a different scenario. The injury happens in place where a medic can do something brief pretty much immediately but then has to leave with the injured person quickly before doing any major surgery and has to then drive for a few hours before they can reach a safe place where any major steps can be taken. What would they need in terms of mobile equipment to keep the person alive on the road?

I would prefer that this scenario ends up with the injured character temporarily unable to talk but able to write, if only a little, such as I have read about having one of those respirator tubes in their throat. Anyone?
 

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
The pneumothorax can easily lead to complications if combined with blood loss as both lead to reduced blood oxygen content. Treating both in the field would make a very ill character rally, but it would be temporary.

If you really need the character immobile for a while, you can have a bullet lodged near her spine and swelling from the injury put pressure on her spinal cord. Paralysis below the injury site would definitely keep her bedridden. As long as the bullet hadn't entered the cord itself, surgery should be easy (well, for a surgery). Delayed onset of paralysis (an few hours or so) is plausible if it's clear the swelling is due to infection. If you make her shocky from the infection (the bullet is sterile from firing, but anything pushed into the wound could cause an infection), they would want to wait on the surgery until she's more stable. Her small size complicates this even more. Bullet needs to enter from side to avoid cardiac area.
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
Sorry to complicate things. The pneumothorax is a different scenario, different time-period, technically a different book but same series (incidentally the same doctor). I was only asking because it came up. I'm not really talking about combining the two and in fact that is one reason I don't want to do a lung-related thing on this one, to keep it from being too similar to different incident in the same series. I knew I should have posted that as a separate thread but I got too tempted, so I mentioned it.

I actually do want the character who gets shot to be able to talk a little. No writing utensils would really be handy when the other characters need some very short information out of her.
 

CoolBlue

I'm not a child! Give back my toy!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
82
Reaction score
8
Location
Canada
Okay, but, because I'm a dunce, why can't I have the shot break her pelvis instead of her femur? You said the caliber mentioned wouldn't be enough to break it enough to need stabilization. A. I don't actually have to mention the caliber because the POV character doesn't know guns. Would be nice to figure out just for background but doesn't have to be mentioned that I know of yet. B. I don't really want it to need major stabilization, just to take a long time to heal. A good crack would do it. That should take at least a few months before she can go running off and doing physically demanding things. Would that work theoretically?

OKaaaaaay, LECTURE MODE: ON

(If we are trying to do something that is plausible to a medical eye)

Many folks, doctors included, forget basic physics when speaking about gunshot wounds.

The issue is ENERGY, and the basic premise that it cannot be destroyed, only transferred. See Energy Equivalence.

The way a bullet causes damage to a structure is by transferring it's energy to the object being damaged, in this case, the character. The force that is applied to the object is given by Newton's Third Law: F=ma

How the energy is transferred is just as important as how much. First, the object transferring the energy (the bullet):

Think of a 20kg axe hitting a log versus a 20kg hammer hitting the same log. The axe splits the wood, in part, because all the energy is being directed to one spot. Not all the energy is even transferred, but goes into the support the log is on. The hammer applies the same force, but cannot transfer all the energy to that one spot, so the log is crushed.

In our case, the analogy might be a tipped round versus a hollow point. The idea behind a hollow point is to do more damage. How? By transferring more energy. The hollow tip expands/explodes when it hits, thereby transferring more energy, rather than just passing through. This is, of course, an oversimplification to the point of absurdity, read more online. For example, a small round directly to the heart, brain, or large vessel may also cause death.

Now, on to the victim:

In your question, you ask why the femur, not the pelvis?

Think of the pelvis as a bony funnel, and the femur as a bony pipe. The pelvis surround many important structures. The femur is in the centre of a mass of muscle with structures that "only" supply the more distal leg.

Not only is the pelvis made out of sheets of bone, they are also attached to each other by fibrous ligaments. This means that the pelvis has a measure of "give", of resilience, built into it.

Unless we are speaking of grandma, with osteoporosis, it takes an enormous amount of energy to break a pelvis. You sometimes can have an extremely unlucky low-impact fall that will break it, but that is unusual. We are trying to create medically plausible, remember?

Don't oversimplify pelvis fractures. For example, a simple stable pelvic fracture does not usually imply much blood loss, while an unstable one is a horse of a totally different colour. Pelvic fracture - short article. The reason why these unstable fractures cause trouble is because of bleeding from non-bony structures, mainly pelvic blood vessels.

So, if you create a scenario where a bullet wound not only fractures a pelvis, but also causes the doctor (early on)to think the victim is going to die , and to also lose a lot of blood and cause the person to have an extended recovery and be able to speak, you make things difficult and unlikely. And why, IMHO, "a good crack" would not do it! :)

You definitely need a high impact round that will transfer much of it's energy and likely cause immense damage to other things than the pelvis: venous plexuses, arteries, ureters, bladder, small bowel, large bowel. Does this make sense?

So, any round could not only fracture the femur, but also cause immense blood loss, without causing death. It would absolutely appear life threatening under these circumstances. The recovery time would be about 6-8 weeks for initial recovery, and then another month or two for complete reconditioning.

Again, I don't need the doctor to think she will surely die and then suddenly reverse his opinion. He simply has to be very worried, given the conditions.

Any bullet wound to a complex structure will cause a doctor worth his salt to worry. A lot.

How long does it take to recover from the huge loss of blood part? Would she feel tired, short of breath, foggy, what?
Many thanks.

Depends. On: How much, how fast, how she is treated, what other injuries she has.

What you need to steer away from is the simple: All she needs is an IV, and she will recover.

Simple IVs can actually make things worse, if not given with understanding, and if given to excess. Recently, our management of the shock caused by blood loss has changed. Significantly. Again. :) We now understand that giving too much crystalloid (salty water) without accompanying it with blood products can actually make things worse. Much worse.

In recent times, we have also come to understand that other drugs, such as tranexamic acid, if given early, can significantly improve outcomes.

Depending of the era of your novel, your doctor may or may not be aware of this.

LECTURE MODE: OFF

I hope this is not too confusing. You are sketching a scenario that could give rise to many perceived inaccuracies, so keeping things simple, yet effective, is the way to go, once again, IMHO.

HTH
CB
 

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
Sorry to complicate things. The pneumothorax is a different scenario, different time-period, technically a different book but same series (incidentally the same doctor). I was only asking because it came up. I'm not really talking about combining the two and in fact that is one reason I don't want to do a lung-related thing on this one, to keep it from being too similar to different incident in the same series. I knew I should have posted that as a separate thread but I got too tempted, so I mentioned it.

I actually do want the character who gets shot to be able to talk a little. No writing utensils would really be handy when the other characters need some very short information out of her.

In that case, gut shot. Your intestines are full of bacteria that helpful inside of them and deadly outside of them. The delay before surgery would give plenty of time for infection to set in and their are strains that can resist all known antibiotics. If she has one of those, all medical science can do is support her body with nutrients while she fights it off. She would have good days and bad days and long days and nights that people think might be her last days. She could need repeated surgeries as portions if her GI track die from the infection. While in there they would probably do an abdominal lavage. She might also develop bacterial cysts. These could be removed surgically, but if ruptured would flood her with a new infection. The biggest problem would be that it's multiple infections at once. You take out one threat to find out it was suppressing another and that other doesn't respond to the drugs you used on the first.

This will probably be hard on your surgeon character emotionally given her youth and small size. When it's just the drugs versus the infection, he'll be completely helpless. I've read first person accounts of people working with Make-A-Wish children catching themselves wanting someone to attack the children, just so they could protect them.

Complications: High fever. Temps over 108F/42C can cause death. Flesh eating strains can consume the layer of fat under the skin.
 

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
ball
In our case, the analogy might be a tipped round versus a hollow point. The idea behind a hollow point is to do more damage. How? By transferring more energy. The hollow tip expands/explodes when it hits, thereby transferring more energy, rather than just passing through. This is, of course, an oversimplification to the point of absurdity, read more online. For example, a small round directly to the heart, brain, or large vessel may also cause death.

CB isn't kidding about the oversimplification. Both bullets and bodies are non-linear systems (changes in reactions can be disproportional to the size of the change), and when you combine the two the permutations can become downright rude. Since you're in Czech, I've been assuming 9mm Parabellem ball ammo. Unless it's a graze, it will tend to dump it's energy in a long, narrow wound cavity without overpenetration. Temporary wound cavity will be roughly twice of the primary, depending on water content of flesh struck. Unless it strikes a bone, the round should neither tumble nor wander. Change to hollow point of the same grain (weight) and the wound cavity is much shallower and wider with a much larger temp cavity You'll get heavier bleeding and greater reaction trauma. Use a ball with a hot load (more gunpowder) or a gun with a longer barrel and you'll perversely do less damage as the round blows through, failing to dump all it's energy. Just reduce the number of twists in the barrel and you've got a round that's more likely to tumble (which increases energy dump) and wander (decreases penetration).

This does not even get into differences between guns, calibers, bullet weight, ballistics and the most important, people. We will try to help you to the best of our ability but you need to trust us.
 

NeuroGlide

Out of my mind, leave a message
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
223
Reaction score
32
Simple IVs can actually make things worse, if not given with understanding, and if given to excess. Recently, our management of the shock caused by blood loss has changed. Significantly. Again. :) We now understand that giving too much crystalloid (salty water) without accompanying it with blood products can actually make things worse. Much worse.

CB

You know CB, this always struck me as obvious. After all it's the RED part that carries the oxygen. You would have thought they would have brought that up in med school. ;)

Seriously though, my knowledge of gun shot wounds come from the ballistics side of the street, yours looks like it's medical. I would say we have this subject fairly well surrounded.
 

afarnam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
197
Reaction score
10
Location
Mnichovice, Czech Republic
Website
www.ariefarnam.com
The caliber of gun has nothing to do with the location, which actually isn't in Czech. The combatants involved are a mixed bag, very international. The people shooting could be private security guards or an ex-military type. I don't know enough about guns to decide what sort of weapons they have and it hasn't become important enough to the narrative to specify as of yet. They have plenty of money so that is one consideration. They can theoreticaly have whatever guns they want.

It sounds like an abdominal wound might work better after all. I've shied away from that because I figured that was too complicated to deal with in the less than ideal conditions but from what you say it could work. Any tips on location (near what organs) for descriptive purposes? Would that still involve major blood loss in the beginning or is the main danger more from infection with an abdominal wound?

Thanks again. You all are awesome!