How does praying to saints work exactly?

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
I don't want to get this wrong, but I have a vague sense that the person will ask the saint, who specializes in whatever area and thus can sympathize with the person, for something, and the saint will intercede the message to God in that person's time of need. Is there a saint for every type of event? Do saints work like the gods and goddesses of the ancient world, each saint serving as a medium of a particular area of interest? How does the community's patron saint get involved in this? Should a tribe or community pray to the patron saint or any type of saint?
 

citymouse

fantasy dweller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,316
Reaction score
140
First, you should define your terms. Since in one phrase you suggest that saints may equate with gods and goddesses. In the Christian sense this is definitely not the case.
In the Christian system saints are defined as those of God's creatures who, through special grace, behold the God-head face to face. This is a very big deal. Some are departed souls and others are angels. The departed souls have the restored preternatural gifts that Adam and Eve had before the fall. It is in this light of understanding that some Christians pray for a saint to intercede with God for them. This is an ancient tradition. You use the word medium. This is not applicable because the word hints at non-Christian philosophies, fortunetelling. Of course I'm speaking from a RCC tradition.
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
First, you should define your terms. Since in one phrase you suggest that saints may equate with gods and goddesses. In the Christian sense this is definitely not the case.
In the Christian system saints are defined as those of God's creatures who, through special grace, behold the God-head face to face. This is a very big deal. Some are departed souls and others are angels. The departed souls have the restored preternatural gifts that Adam and Eve had before the fall. It is in this light of understanding that some Christians pray for a saint to intercede with God for them. This is an ancient tradition. You use the word medium. This is not applicable because the word hints at non-Christian philosophies, fortunetelling. Of course I'm speaking from a RCC tradition.

OK. Thank you so much.

Now, can you explain the process in detail or attach references to your explanation?
 

citymouse

fantasy dweller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,316
Reaction score
140
OK. Thank you so much.

Now, can you explain the process in detail or attach references to your explanation?

The process is very straight forward. Let's say you or someone you know is diagnosed with a fatal illness. Saint Jude is the patron saint of lost causes. You would pray to Saint Jude for a cure. This may be in the form of personal prayer or a novena here is a link that may be helpful http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da522f4277e70110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&vgnextchannel=f9a0c268099f4110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&SearchUrl=search_results.jsp&QueryText=novena
Need a second chance? Saint Dismas is your go-to man. Saint Dismas who was crucified along side Jesus, is also known as the Good Thief. He is the patron saint of thieves. He's my favorite saint. He remained a thief to the end. From his felons cross, the stole the heart of Christ.
There's lots more. Just Google RCC saints, and be prepared for saintly overload!
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
The process is very straight forward. Let's say you or someone you know is diagnosed with a fatal illness. Saint Jude is the patron saint of lost causes. You would pray to Saint Jude for a cure. This may be in the form of personal prayer or a novena here is a link that may be helpful http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da522f4277e70110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&vgnextchannel=f9a0c268099f4110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&SearchUrl=search_results.jsp&QueryText=novena
Need a second chance? Saint Dismas is your go-to man. Saint Dismas who was crucified along side Jesus, is also known as the Good Thief. He is the patron saint of thieves. He's my favorite saint. He remained a thief to the end. From his felons cross, the stole the heart of Christ.
There's lots more. Just Google RCC saints, and be prepared for saintly overload!

So... does a community's patron saint play a role in it at all? How does the patron saint of a community/village/town/district fit in this? Under what circumstances might a person pray to a patron saint? If a person moves from one community to another, then would that person have to change patron saints too?

How would a Roman Catholic person interact with an Eastern Orthodox person, especially when they pray to different saints? Would one be expected to conform to the religion of another when that person moves to a new location?
 
Last edited:

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,617
Reaction score
7,298
Location
Wash., D.C. area
Citymouse described it pretty much how I understand it. In the simplest sense, there is no difference between asking a departed person to pray for you and asking your very much living brother or friend to pray for you. People don't pray to saints, they ask the saints to pray for them. You don't need to ask a specific saint for one thing and another for others, but many people believe certain saints have "specialties," for lack of a better word. The person being prayed to (other than God) has no special powers, but is believed to be able to intercede in a way that might (or might not) result in the prayer being answered in the way the prayer wishes.

There is also no shortage of recognized saints. There are also likely saints that we don't know about because we don't know enough about their lives to know about them.
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,617
Reaction score
7,298
Location
Wash., D.C. area
So... does a community's patron saint play a role in it at all? How does the patron saint of a community/village/town/district fit in this? Under what circumstances might a person pray to a patron saint? If a person moves from one community to another, then would that person have to change patron saints too?

How would a Roman Catholic person interact with an Eastern Orthodox person, especially when they pray to different saints? Would one be expected to conform to the religion of another when that person moves to a new location?

As to your first part, people in a community might ask that the saint to pray that God guides the community in its decisions, harvests, safety, etc. The patron saint of a village isn't the patron saint of everyone in that village, so the issue of moving and changing saints is moot. I don't know enough about Eastern Orthodoxy to say how they would view a Roman rite's prayers, but I suspect there wouldn't be much conflict about that.

As far as personal patron saints, when I was confirmed I choose St. Christopher as my saint name, since that's also my real name. However, I now look to St. Albert the Great for inspiration since he was a scientist who didn't see any conflict between faith and science, and whose pupil (Thomas Aquinas) surpassed him, just as any teacher should hope. In other issues I look to the lives of other saints who've overcome certain obstacles that I might be facing. Having a personal patron saint is really a pretty informal thing, and I don't think many people choose one and one only.
 

citymouse

fantasy dweller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,316
Reaction score
140
So... does a community's patron saint play a role in it at all? How does the patron saint of a community/village/town/district fit in this? Under what circumstances might a person pray to a patron saint? If a person moves from one community to another, then would that person have to change patron saints too?

How would a Roman Catholic person interact with an Eastern Orthodox person, especially when they pray to different saints? Would one be expected to conform to the religion of another when that person moves to a new location?

I already described two reasons for asking for saintly intercession.
Saints are not specific to individuals. There are communities devoted to certain saints, however the rigidity you suggest (having to change saints) does not exist.
Be clear. I'm speaking from a RCC view.
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
Great! Thanks, people!

Now, I want to know how would Catholic godparents play a role in the upbringing or development of a child. What do they do?

By the way, the reason why I am asking these questions is that I want to find more about the Catholic culture in which certain fairy tales were based, and I want to write a believable, moralistic, and childishly playful fairy tale too.
 

citymouse

fantasy dweller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,316
Reaction score
140
Great! Thanks, people!

Now, I want to know how would Catholic godparents play a role in the upbringing or development of a child. What do they do?

By the way, the reason why I am asking these questions is that I want to find more about the Catholic culture in which certain fairy tales were based, and I want to write a believable, moralistic, and childishly playful fairy tale too.

Alas the original role of godparents has become mostly ceremonial. You can look up the role of godparents on this site. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0233.html

You got me on the fairy tale angle. Of course there are people who feel the whole of the Catholic anthropology is a fairy tale. Some of it is quite amazing.
Since we're discussing prayer, you may find this from Saint Teresa of Avila helpful. 'More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones.'
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
Alas the original role of godparents has become mostly ceremonial. You can look up the role of godparents on this site. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0233.html

You got me on the fairy tale angle. Of course there are people who feel the whole of the Catholic anthropology is a fairy tale. Some of it is quite amazing.
Since we're discussing prayer, you may find this from Saint Teresa of Avila helpful. 'More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones.'

What do you mean by "people who feel the whole of the Catholic anthropology is a fairy tale"? What's so amazing about it?
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,618
Reaction score
4,031
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
I'm curious which fairy tales you're talking about. With the *possible* exception of The Little Mermaid, most fairy tales were floating around their continents of origin before the Catholic church spread out. (That's one reason the heroes or villains in certain stories are witches or fairies instead of angels or something similar.)
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
I'm curious which fairy tales you're talking about. With the *possible* exception of The Little Mermaid, most fairy tales were floating around their continents of origin before the Catholic church spread out. (That's one reason the heroes or villains in certain stories are witches or fairies instead of angels or something similar.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Perrault
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,618
Reaction score
4,031
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
At least one of the stories he's credited with predates his life by centuries, and isn't even European - Cinderella began as a Chinese (or Persian, depending on the version) folktale.
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,617
Reaction score
7,298
Location
Wash., D.C. area
Which fairy tales/fables/parables originated with the bible and which did not is beside the point, I think. Shoot, Christ-type virgin-birth stories go waaaay back. However, how Christianity has adopted existing stories and practices for its own use (especially in non-biblical but even in biblical accounts) seems more what the OP is after, and is an incredibly interesting topic that I am ill equipped to discuss myself.

As for godparents, in modern times they don't do very much. It was just kind of understood that they would adopt me if something happened to my parents.
 
Last edited:

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
At least one of the stories he's credited with predates his life by centuries, and isn't even European - Cinderella began as a Chinese (or Persian, depending on the version) folktale.

Of course fairy tales are ancient cultural tales. They are essentially folk tales, committed to belong to the various ethnic communities. They are part of the wider range of traditional means of storytelling. I just want my fairy tale to blend in seamlessly with the fairy tale motifs found in Western culture, as that may connect more with Western readers. I think some people brush away religion as if they are not important in beliefs and attitudes of a particular culture, when understanding the religion of Western culture can elucidate the values and meaning of the traditional stories. One of my favorite fairy tales was by Hans Christian Andersen: The Red Shoes. It was translated in my parents' native language, which was not influenced by Christianity, so the cultural significance of red might be lost. When I read the English version by myself, I found that it was loaded with Christian references, and that inspired me to follow the same pattern: writing fairy tales with deep Christian morals.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 42

If you read medieval saint's lives, you'll see strong similarities between them and folklore/fairytales.

Later versions (c. 10th century) of medieval Irish tales have St. Patrick performing things that earlier versions (c. 6th to 8th century, based on the language) have druids doing.

And then you have what are essentially miracle duals between St. Patrick and the druids . . . and St. Brigid/Bree's earlier role as a Celtic deity . . .
 

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
7,632
Reaction score
1,204
Location
London, UK
Website
torgoblog.blogspot.com
If you read medieval saint's lives, you'll see strong similarities between them and folklore/fairytales.

Later versions (c. 10th century) of medieval Irish tales have St. Patrick performing things that earlier versions (c. 6th to 8th century, based on the language) have druids doing.

And then you have what are essentially miracle duals between St. Patrick and the druids . . . and St. Brigid/Bree's earlier role as a Celtic deity . . .

There are some great Italian folk tales in Calvino about Jesus and the disciples wandering around Italy (Peter is usually the butt of the jokes); and I think the Apocrypha has a bunch of Infant Jesus stories that look just like folk tales.
 

King Neptune

Banned
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,253
Reaction score
372
Location
The Oceans
How would a Roman Catholic person interact with an Eastern Orthodox person, especially when they pray to different saints? Would one be expected to conform to the religion of another when that person moves to a new location?

A great many Roman and Eastern saints are the same, because the two sects only separated less than a thousand years ago. The basic prayers are identical in the two sects, and the ceremonies have a great deal of similarity. Eastern masses and other ceremonies are regarded as valid in the Roman Church, but I don't know whether the reverse is true.
 

King Neptune

Banned
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,253
Reaction score
372
Location
The Oceans
Great! Thanks, people!

Now, I want to know how would Catholic godparents play a role in the upbringing or development of a child. What do they do?

By the way, the reason why I am asking these questions is that I want to find more about the Catholic culture in which certain fairy tales were based, and I want to write a believable, moralistic, and childishly playful fairy tale too.

It's more like the other way around. The Jesus myth closely parallels the stories of Mithra, the son of the chief God in the ancient Persian religion, which now survives as Parseeism. As you should know, Mithraism was the most popular religion in the Roman world around the timje when Jesus was around, and the Christians absorbed what they could from that.
 

WriteRex

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
175
Reaction score
3
It's more like the other way around. The Jesus myth closely parallels the stories of Mithra, the son of the chief God in the ancient Persian religion, which now survives as Parseeism. As you should know, Mithraism was the most popular religion in the Roman world around the timje when Jesus was around, and the Christians absorbed what they could from that.

I'm not talking about the origin of fairy tales, if that is what you seem to have in mind.
 

Ken

Banned
Kind Benefactor
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
11,478
Reaction score
6,198
Location
AW. A very nice place!
... one needn't pray. An icon of one's patron saint is sufficient, strung on a wall w. or w/o a votive. Icons afford protection as well as luck with one's harvest and whatnot. A very old and respected custom.
 
Last edited: