Do teens in H.S. know about Pavlov's dog?

mellymel · Dec 19, 2013

Is this something that is ever discussed in H.S.? Do teens ever learn about (or are they ever exposed to) the theories of classical conditioning and Pavlov's dog? I know I didn't learn it until college when I took psych courses and wonder if it would be an inappropriate reference in a YA book. Like, I want to make sure I'm not sticking something in there that says, I'm an adult and studied this theory and now I'm going to pretend my teen mc knows this stuff, you know? Every once in a while, I will find a line or reference in a book that makes it sort of obvious the author has stuck some of their own personal/non-teen knowledge into the story and it drives me crazy. Not saying all teens don't know these things, but it's something that is obviously a reference from an older person. If that makes sense.

Thanks!

mccardey · Dec 19, 2013

mellymel said:
Is this something that is ever discussed in H.S.? Do teens ever learn about (or are they ever exposed to) the theories of classical conditioning and Pavlov's dog? I know I didn't learn it until college when I took psych courses and wonder if it would be an inappropriate reference in a YA book. Like, I want to make sure I'm not sticking something in there that says, I'm an adult and studied this theory and now I'm going to pretend my teen mc knows this stuff, you know?

Thanks!

In Australia, yes: I think in about Year 9. (Probably not all that deeply)

Dreity · Dec 19, 2013

I took an intro to psych class my senior year, and that's when I first learned about Pavlov. So it's definitely conceivable.

ZachJPayne · Dec 19, 2013

Yes! It was mentioned in my high school class. Biology, I believe. I'd believe most high school kids (that aren't complete idiots) would understand it.

StormChord · Dec 19, 2013

Yes, yes we do.

Little Anonymous Me · Dec 19, 2013

Yes. Biology and psychology classes covered it.

And that one irate teacher who started screaming about classical conditioning.

thothguard51 · Dec 19, 2013

And if they don't, they can always google just like adult readers do...

mellymel · Dec 19, 2013

Thanks so much guys!!

Thothguard, I'm not concerned about whether everyone who reads it will get the reference (and most teens google things "just like adult readers do" all the time). My concern was whether or not it's realistic/legit that two teens in H.S. would make a reference to it in a conversation in a YA novel. I don't remember ever learning about that in H.S. bio and I didn't have psych, but learned it in college as a psych major. Just doin' my homework/research.

LJD · Dec 19, 2013

I remember learning about it in grade 12 biology (Canada).
Though I'm pretty sure I knew about it beforehand. I don't know if that was from school, or because I was so cool that I spent my summers reading the children's encyclopedia when I was in grade school.

Lil · Dec 19, 2013

Responding from the depths of despair, I have encountered college graduates who do not know that Japan and the United States were not allies in World War II, who do not know that every state has two senators, who do not know an endless list of things that I always considered common knowledge and to which they may have been introduced in high school (but to which they paid no attention).
Can you assume that high school students might know about Pavlov's dogs?
No.
Can you assume that high school students who are voluntarily reading a book might know about Pavlov's dogs?
Now that's an entirely different question, and I certainly hope that the answer is yes.

mccardey · Dec 19, 2013

Lil said:
Responding from the depths of despair, I have encountered college graduates who do not know that Japan and the United States were not allies in World War II, who do not know that every state has two senators, who do not know an endless list of things that I always considered common knowledge and to which they may have been introduced in high school (but to which they paid no attention).
Can you assume that high school students might know about Pavlov's dogs?
No.
Can you assume that high school students who are voluntarily reading a book might know about Pavlov's dogs?
Now that's an entirely different question, and I certainly hope that the answer is yes.

Does Pavlov's dog know about high school students?

benbradley · Dec 19, 2013

I don't recall when I learned about it, but I think it's realistic. Maybe it's not covered in a lot of high schools, but it sure should be.

Beachgirl · Dec 19, 2013

My son is in 9th grade (private school) and he studied it this year.

slhuang · Dec 19, 2013

I'm jealous of the people who studied it! I never learned about it in high school, but I'm pretty sure I knew what it was just from reading and references and stuff. I was very much a Nerd, though.

If I were a reader, I might raise an eyebrow depending on the character making the reference and how they make it. If you've got a smart, well-read character doing it or using the word "Pavlovian," I wouldn't even blink. If you've got a kid who says something like, "Yeah, like that dog we learned about in bio. You know, the one who slobbered every time he heard the bell" then I wouldn't blink either. But if you've got a kid who's not particularly well-read and hates school and science and s/he uses the word "Pavlovian" or something in passing, it might give me pause.

blacbird · Dec 19, 2013

In the U.S.? Almost certainly not, at least as the majority of that population. I teach introductory level geology and English composition at the local university, and the vacancies in things I used to consider simple basic knowledge never fail to astound me. In the geology class, I always have to cover what a chemical element is, what a proton, neutron and electron are. Pavlov's dog? Wasn't that the poodle who won the Westminster Show?

caw

Orianna2000 · Dec 20, 2013

I was home schooled for high school and took a basic psych course that probably taught Pavlovian theory, but I'm pretty sure I already knew about it. But then, I paid attention in school and tended to have really good teachers. If the school was overcrowded, had bad teachers, or if the student didn't pay attention in class, then I could definitely see how he might be ignorant.

Trebor1415 · Dec 20, 2013

What note was taped to Pavlov's door?

cornflake · Dec 20, 2013

I know more than one kid who indeed, in the U.S., went over Pavlov in basic bio in like 9th grade. One just last year; the class covered classical and operant conditioning, Pavlov and Skinner, among other things.

Putputt · Dec 20, 2013

mccardey said:
Does Pavlov's dog know about high school students?

wendymarlowe · Dec 20, 2013

We covered it in 7th grade social studies, in the overview unit on psychology, and again in both bio and psych classes in high school. Even if your students haven't studied it specifically, I think the concept of "Pavlov's dog" is a pretty common societal one, and it would make sense for any reasonably aware student to know it.

Trebor1415 · Dec 20, 2013

Trebor1415 said:
What note was taped to Pavlov's door?

Nobody?

Ok, here it is:

"Please Knock

DO NOT USE BELL"

DancingMaenid · Dec 20, 2013

Even if the character hasn't learned about it in school, there's still a decent chance that they could have heard about it outside of school. I don't think I encountered Pavlovian theory in an educational setting until I took an intro to psychology class in college, but I'd read about psychology and heard references to Pavlov's dogs prior to that. And Pavlov's dogs are sort of a pop culture thing now, too, so I could buy a character being familiar with the concept even if they don't really understand it or know exactly what it refers to.

If your character is at all intellectually-minded, then I could totally buy it.

mellymel · Dec 20, 2013

Trebor1415 said:
Nobody?

Ok, here it is:

"Please Knock

DO NOT USE BELL"

hahahahahhahaa!!!! :ROFL:

Thanks again, everyone. And yes, the two characters in the scene are good students who pay attention in school.

LA*78 · Dec 20, 2013

mccardey said:
In Australia, yes: I think in about Year 9. (Probably not all that deeply)

This for me too. Though possibly yr 8 as I never studied Biology as a subject so it would have been in general science.

blacbird · Dec 20, 2013

Tell you what. I'm in a position to make an objective test of this concept, in about three weeks, when my spring semester geology class starts. I usually start with an ungraded quiz on what I consider to be basic scientific/geographic concepts, just to get a handle on the level of common knowledge i have to work with. I'll ask about Pavlov's dog, and get back here with the results.

caw

Do teens in H.S. know about Pavlov's dog?

mellymel

mccardey

Dreity

ZachJPayne

Beware: #amQuerying

StormChord

Allegedly Gullible

Little Anonymous Me

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

mellymel

LJD

Lil

mccardey

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

Beachgirl

Not easily managed

slhuang

Inappropriately math-oriented.

blacbird

Orianna2000

Freelance Writer

Trebor1415

practical experience, FTW

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Putputt

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg

wendymarlowe

writer, mother, geek

Trebor1415

practical experience, FTW

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!

mellymel

LA*78

blacbird