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Pushingfordream
12-17-2013, 03:01 AM
A few days ago I stumbled upon a quote about how the best artist are always living there art. The quote in essence explained how the ultimate goal of each artist is to fully immerse him or herself into there work. I have been thinking about it a lot because my ultimate goal in writing my memoir is to do exactly that. I want to live a life shaped by my art. (or at least when it's published) What are other peoples thoughts?

KateJJ
12-17-2013, 03:10 AM
I like that idea, I shall start wearing swords at all times because my characters do, and resolve my differences the honorable way - duels to the death.

Actually I'm not sure what "live your art" means. Could you explain a bit more?

Pushingfordream
12-17-2013, 03:15 AM
I like that idea, I shall start wearing swords at all times because my characters do, and resolve my differences the honorable way - duels to the death.

Actually I'm not sure what "live your art" means. Could you explain a bit more?

:) very funny! :)

Like how authors travel with there writing and it becomes part of there immediate life on a daily basis. Maybe like how someone making a documentary about there life would be filming.

buz
12-17-2013, 03:16 AM
A few days ago I stumbled upon a quote about how the best artist are always living there art.

What does that mean?


The quote in essence explained how the ultimate goal of each artist is to fully immerse him or herself into there work.Why should I? What does full immersion mean? Does it mean I have to sit here and write in a mad explosion of creative genius (hahaha like I have those) while my dog is being adorable and asking me to play? Cuz no, I'mma go play with the dog :) But I don't really understand the meaning of "fully immersing yourself in your work."


I have been thinking about it a lot because my ultimate goal in writing my memoir is to do exactly that. I want to live a life shaped by my art. (or at least when it's published) What are other peoples thoughts?I don't know what a life shaped by my writing would mean. I'd love to be able to live on writing + a part time or intermittent job. I'd love to be able to work from anywhere. I'd love to get really good at it. This means I suppose I aim to spend a lot of time on it.

But I'd prefer to be shaped by what I do and who I am and all manner of things. Not just writing. I'm shaped by my responsibility to my dog and my family and my burning mind-melting hatred of boredom and my self-consciousness and my introvertedness and my dweebiness and my short attention span and my fear of mortality and my laziness and my always-congested sinuses and so on and so forth. (I wouldn't LIKE to be shaped by my sinuses and laziness, though...so. :p My point is that being "shaped" is quite a complex and multifaceted thing.)

So I guess I'm asking for clarification of the topic. :)

ETA: Just saw this, but I'm afraid I still don't get it. (Also I just have to correct the "there" as it's driving me nuts :p )


Like how authors travel with their writing and it becomes part of their immediate life on a daily basis.Travel with it? Yeah, it's easy. Writing's pretty portable. Or do you mean that if I write a book about Kazakhstan I would actually go to Kazakhstan? I'd only do that if I had the money and time to blow on it, and then it'd be more for the fun of traveling than writing. And really, I'd probably say to hell with it, if I'm going to spend all this money, I'm going to Bhutan instead.

Part of my immediate life? Yeah, I spend some of my time walking the dogs/driving/other less-than-mentally-demanding activities thinking about plot or character. I try to make myself work on it at least a little every day or at least most days. But that's just work, isn't it? Or did you have a more immediate idea than that?


Maybe like how someone making a documentary about their life would be filming. I don't understand this statement :(

MookyMcD
12-17-2013, 03:36 AM
I don't really know memoir, but I would assume the interesting life comes before the telling starts. I hate to think of the havoc I would sew if I were trying to live out a killer memoir as I wrote it.

ETA -- maybe I misread your post. Are you saying you want your memoir to lead to an awesome life that you will enjoy living?

I'm tired. Confusion is coming easily today.

Putputt
12-17-2013, 03:37 AM
A few days ago I stumbled upon a quote about how the best artist are always living there art. The quote in essence explained how the ultimate goal of each artist is to fully immerse him or herself into there work. I have been thinking about it a lot because my ultimate goal in writing my memoir is to do exactly that. I want to live a life shaped by my art. (or at least when it's published) What are other peoples thoughts?

No. :D How do you fully immerse yourself in it? All I can think of is the stereotypical drunk, depressed writer who lives inside his own head and produces work of genius but sucks at all other aspects of life. I would hate to be with someone who thinks their art is the be all end all of their life. Writing is part of my life, not the other way around.

Little Ming
12-17-2013, 03:45 AM
A few days ago I stumbled upon a quote about how the best artist are always living there art. The quote in essence explained how the ultimate goal of each artist is to fully immerse him or herself into there work. I have been thinking about it a lot because my ultimate goal in writing my memoir is to do exactly that. I want to live a life shaped by my art. (or at least when it's published) What are other peoples thoughts?

If it works for you, then go for it.

Personally, I get some of my best ideas when I'm away from my "art." If I constantly had to be "immersed" or "living" my art... I might as well jump out the window now.

Pushingfordream
12-17-2013, 03:49 AM
Well it sounds like the idea of living my art, made more sense in my head. (that flopped as a post)

Rina Evans
12-17-2013, 03:50 AM
That kind of think romanticizes and glamorizes a lot of jobs, and especially writing. 'Being a Writer' becomes this image more important that actually 'writing'. Then you get all those stereotypes of what a writer should be and should do and should love.

The closest comparison to what I think the article meant is those method actors who live their roles all day.

Ken
12-17-2013, 03:52 AM
the best artists

... will be honest with you. The best artists, writers, musicians, etc, are in a class by themselves IMO. What they do is entirely different from what most all of us do. They're GREAT simply put as are their creations.

So it's really sorta hard to compare oneself to them or the things they do to the things we do: writing this way; writing that way. So though it may be necessary for them to immerse themselves in their art or whatnot, for instance, for us it may well not be.

Can't really take guidance from the greats. Or you can, but with the remembrance that they're a different species than us. What they do might not be applicable. It may even be ruinous.

I admire our Tolkeins and Oateses and Joyces. I even worship them to a degree. But again, I do not take lessons from them. I've got my AW (((peers))) for that who are on my level. Or reasonable number of levels up, instead of umpteen million !

G'luck with your memoir. Just be honest and be yourself. That's all that's really required.

ap123
12-17-2013, 04:07 AM
I'm still a little unclear. Do you have a link to the original article/quote? :)

My current MC is an alcoholic, dedicated to drinking herself to death. I'm a lousy drinker. 1 drink is enough, 2 and I'm zonked. So there's a definite limit to direct experiences. So if you're talking about a literal "living your art," that isn't going to happen.

Part of me is interpreting the quote a little differently. I'm thinking about how once you identify yourself as a writer (artist, musician, etc), there's a part of your brain that is always in that mode. I don't know if it's true for everyone, but it's true for me, and I know others who experience it similarly. Whatever I'm out and about doing, experiencing, feeling, there's that little, umm, I don't know, file? that opens up in my head and puts it away for safekeeping and future story telling.

Not saying I write exactly what happened, but maybe just a strange mannerism of that quirky guy on the train I saw in my peripheral vision, or the feeling in my gut when I stood at my mother's grave, or the peaceful oh yeah of a perfect day on the beach. At another time, often years later, I'll be working on a story, writing a scene, and that little file pops open with that feeling/experience/core of truth I can use--even if the first glance scenario is different.

(Hope this makes sense)

Siri Kirpal
12-17-2013, 04:22 AM
Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Excessive arty-ness does not for happy living make. But...

Yes, identifying yourself as an artist is good, if that's the way you view writing.

Me, I've been a fine artist, a singer, a writer. I've got my artwork on the walls of our house and CDs of the music I was trained to sing (plus one tape I made decades ago). You could call that living your art, I suppose...if it weren't that I'm spending most of the day doing laundry and cooking, because my day job is homemaker.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Pushingfordream
12-17-2013, 04:57 AM
I will find the quote. Everything seems better in my mind i guess.

Once!
12-17-2013, 01:39 PM
I think I can see a part of what you are saying. The absolute top of any profession are normally the ones who commit themselves to that profession. They give it every waking hour, all of their energy, they eat, sleep and dream about it.

Sure, you could live like that. If you really wanted to be the best of the best of the best SUH!, or whatever it is they say in macho war films.

But ... that's a pretty big ask. What about family, friends, job, commitments? And what happens if you do all of that and it still does not work? This is a risky profession.

Then there's the bit I don't understand. You want to live your dream and your dream is to write a memoir. I have to ask - a memoir of what? If all your life is about writing and all your writing is about your life, why should anyone want to read it? I like to read memoirs of people who have done something interesting.

Reading a memoir of someone who hasn't done anything except write a memoir? Maybe if you are Samuel Pepys, but it's a pretty tough market for anyone else.

NeuroFizz
12-17-2013, 04:08 PM
Writing is not something I am, it is something I do. And it comes from my imagination. That turf is not particularly hospitable for a feet-on-the-real-ground existence. I can dive in there any time I want, but my real life has to keep that sucker contained if I want to pay the bills, have my family like to be around me, and keep my friends and colleagues on good terms.

And, if you are writing a memoir, haven't you already lived your writing?

gothicangel
12-17-2013, 04:48 PM
God, no. I work in the summer in sales for English Heritage, I love it. The properties, the people, being a custodian of an amazing medieval castle. Even if I was offered a million-pound book deal tomorrow, I wouldn't think for a moment of quitting to write (would by myself a bigger house, and a newer car though :D.) I work seasonally, and currently unemployed (season begins in Feb) for six weeks and its driving me nutty having nothing to do but write and read.

Money isn't a problem. I miss the people and my castle. :e2cry:

Jamesaritchie
12-17-2013, 09:07 PM
I think it's romantic nonsense. I think the word "art" is nonsense about 98% of the time. It's no more than a way to justify crapping your life away.

It can't be absolutely horrible because it's art, and all "art" s worthwhile.

The only proper way to live your "art" is by living a good, worthwhile life that has nothing to do with art. You get up, you g outside, you travel, you meet people, you do real things lie a job, like climbing a mountain, like skydiving, like eating at a new restaurant, like getting involved in politics an you local community.

Then, when you have lived a real life, you write about it, or you paint it, etc.

Writing is no damned different than crocheting, building birdhouses, or sewing. It's just something we do because we enjoy it. When it gets to be more than this "Art" has nothing to do with it. Now you're talking about the writer, not the writing, and ho he justifies what he's doing. Most often about how he isn't failing because the only failure is quitting, and it is, after all, art.

Alessandra Kelley
12-17-2013, 09:25 PM
I think it's romantic nonsense. I think the word "art" is nonsense about 98% of the time. It's no more than a way to justify crapping your life away.

It can't be absolutely horrible because it's art, and all "art" s worthwhile.

The only proper way to live your "art" is by living a good, worthwhile life that has nothing to do with art. You get up, you g outside, you travel, you meet people, you do real things lie a job, like climbing a mountain, like skydiving, like eating at a new restaurant, like getting involved in politics an you local community.

Then, when you have lived a real life, you write about it, or you paint it, etc.

Writing is no damned different than crocheting, building birdhouses, or sewing. It's just something we do because we enjoy it. When it gets to be more than this "Art" has nothing to do with it. Now you're talking about the writer, not the writing, and ho he justifies what he's doing. Most often about how he isn't failing because the only failure is quitting, and it is, after all, art.

This assumes that art is nothing more than fluff about one's own life, a mere tool for self-examination.

The most interesting art I have seen or read is not about the artist but about the world. The artists and authors of those works are trying to say or show something of use to other people.

One can gather experience of the world by living an attentive and thoughtful life, but the purpose of that is to increase the artist's understanding in order to better communicate through art, not to become fascinating enough to justify writing about oneself.

MookyMcD
12-17-2013, 09:29 PM
I think I may be more aligned with James on this one. Putting real experiences into our writing strikes me as more substantive than going out to collect experiences because we want to have things to add.

ap123
12-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Isn't that what makes something art, the ability of the piece to express something for others, connect with others?

FluffBunny
12-17-2013, 09:44 PM
Never having created something I would call "art", I can't really live it. I like writing, but most of my ideas hit when I'm doing other things--petting the house-rabbit, say, or that most exciting of all duties: folding the laundry. *has to have a bit of a lie-down after saying, "folding the laundry"*

I will admit to carrying a small notebook with me so that if an idea does happen to strike, I can write it down before it escapes. Mike and I went to a particularly wonderful coffeehouse once. It was a remodeled house and all hidden nooks and bookshelves and things done by local artists. That made it into my notebook as a possible setting for a book idea I had. It's not so much "living (my) art" as it is, "living and having something vaguely arty pop up and slap you on the head."

WeaselFire
12-17-2013, 10:09 PM
What are other peoples thoughts?
That most artists are whackos. Feel free to live your art, I won't hold it against you. But I need a paycheck, don't hold that against me.

Jeff

Ken
12-18-2013, 03:35 AM
That most artists are whackos.

... really? I know several artists who paint and sculpt and while they are totally committed to their craft and in a way do sort of live their art, despite having families and outside interests and professions and whatnot, they are not "whackos."

You "write for money and don't want people to hold that against you." Fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm more or less in it for that too. I certainly don't have anything to offer artistically. Even so I appreciate and respect those with different aims and ways of going about things. They're just as valid and worthwhile and certainly do not reflect upon the artists and writers negatively.

butterfly
12-18-2013, 06:50 AM
A few days ago I stumbled upon a quote about how the best artist are always living there art. The quote in essence explained how the ultimate goal of each artist is to fully immerse him or herself into there work. I have been thinking about it a lot because my ultimate goal in writing my memoir is to do exactly that. I want to live a life shaped by my art. (or at least when it's published) What are other peoples thoughts?

First, you have to define your "art". Is it writing? Painting? Cycling? Gardening? What has been a constant in your life? What is the thing you must do? Second, fully immersing yourself must mean to practice the discipline necessary to achieve your goal, no matter how small or mundane it may seem to someone else. Your life belongs to you. Third, living the life shaped by your art means that whatever principles you subscribe to, whatever commitment you make to your 'art', you must make that same commitment / investment to any other person or thing you make part of your life, including yourself.

You don't have to travel the continents, jump out of planes, set world records, hunt the white buffalo, you just have to give the best of yourself to whatever you do and who ever you let into your world. You define it. Don't let anyone take it away.

ishtar'sgate
12-18-2013, 07:16 AM
:) very funny! :)

Like how authors travel with there writing and it becomes part of there immediate life on a daily basis.

To a degree that happens to me. When I wrote my medieval novel I began to feel as if I lived in the 14th century. I'd constantly compare what I was doing in the here-and-now to what I was 'doing' in the novel. I was so familiar with the day-to-day life of the period that it felt like it was my own life. I haven't reached that point with my current WIP but I expect it will happen eventually and I'll enter the world of ancient Babylon as if it were the present.

veinglory
12-18-2013, 08:06 AM
My art is part of my life, not the other way around.

Helix
12-18-2013, 08:19 AM
I dunno. Sometimes I think my life is a work of art. By Dali, possibly, or Bosch.

RedWombat
12-18-2013, 08:52 AM
I picked up a bar of organic goat's milk soap once with a label that said "Make everything you do art! Be a LIFE ARTIST!"

I put it down quickly. Soap doesn't get to tell me how to live.

StephanieZie
12-18-2013, 02:54 PM
I picked up a bar of organic goat's milk soap once with a label that said "Make everything you do art! Be a LIFE ARTIST!"

I put it down quickly. Soap doesn't get to tell me how to live.

:ROFL:


I don't really know how to interpret OP's question, but I like to think that my art imitates all the things I wish my life could be. If I could live one hundred lives, I'd probably never have any need to write. I only get one, though, so I write to live vicariously through my stories.

DeadCities
12-26-2013, 11:32 PM
I think it's romantic nonsense. I think the word "art" is nonsense about 98% of the time. It's no more than a way to justify crapping your life away.

It can't be absolutely horrible because it's art, and all "art" s worthwhile.

The only proper way to live your "art" is by living a good, worthwhile life that has nothing to do with art. You get up, you g outside, you travel, you meet people, you do real things lie a job, like climbing a mountain, like skydiving, like eating at a new restaurant, like getting involved in politics an you local community.

Then, when you have lived a real life, you write about it, or you paint it, etc.

Writing is no damned different than crocheting, building birdhouses, or sewing. It's just something we do because we enjoy it. When it gets to be more than this "Art" has nothing to do with it. Now you're talking about the writer, not the writing, and ho he justifies what he's doing. Most often about how he isn't failing because the only failure is quitting, and it is, after all, art.


I think the word "art" is nonsense about 98% of the time.

To you maybe. art is subjective.


The only proper way to live your "art" is by living a good, worthwhile life that has nothing to do with art.

You're assuming everyone has the same Idea of "a worthwhile life" as you do. I doubt if you asked someone playing guitar, busking, on the street if they were pissing their life away they'd say yes. Their doing what they love, they usually travel all across the country, and yes, some of them make good money. Living your art, pursuing your dreams, is a worthwhile life for an artist.


Writing is no damned different than crocheting, building birdhouses, or sewing.

This feels so wrong. To me, sewing is what you do when you've lost a button or there's a tear in your shirt or something. Writing is expressing the human condition, it's bringing your imagination onto the page in the hopes of entertaining. There is something deeply spiritual about storytelling among us humans. Stories were incredibly important, for history (before written records), for morals, to give us a sense of why the hell were here.


most often about how he isn't failing because the only failure is quitting, and it is, after all, art.

Exactly. :D

buz
12-26-2013, 11:34 PM
I dunno. Sometimes I think my life is a work of art. By Dali, possibly, or Bosch.

Mine's a Where's Waldo? book. But Waldo is my soul.

Filigree
12-27-2013, 12:43 AM
This feels so wrong. To me, sewing is what you do when you've lost a button or there's a tear in your shirt or something. Writing is expressing the human condition, it's bringing your imagination onto the page in the hopes of entertaining. There is something deeply spiritual about storytelling among us humans. Stories were incredibly important, for history (before written records), for morals, to give us a sense of why the hell were here.

Hmm. Each to their own definitions, I guess. For me, I feel like I can achieve the exact same things with my art, whether it's beadwork, embroidery, jewelry design, or bookbinding. Even with the more-utilitarian crafts I do, in everyday repairs and such. I don't think of my writing as any different from my art - or on a higher creative level. It all comes from the same electrochemical reactions firing between my brain, my eyes, and my hands.

My writing can be earthy or transcendent, but it certainly isn't sacred.

ishtar'sgate
12-27-2013, 02:14 AM
I think it's romantic nonsense. I think the word "art" is nonsense about 98% of the time. It's no more than a way to justify crapping your life away.

Then, when you have lived a real life, you write about it, or you paint it, etc.

Writing is no damned different than crocheting, building birdhouses, or sewing. It's just something we do because we enjoy it. When it gets to be more than this "Art" has nothing to do with it.

I swear, James, you just like to throw it at the fan to see what flies back at you. :D

You're probably correct when you say writing is no different than crocheting or building bird houses or sewing. But I consider those things artistic too - in the right hands. And yes, art is something we do because we enjoy it. It satisfies us on a deep level.

maggi90w1
12-27-2013, 02:53 AM
I'm not an artist, thank god.

Putputt
12-27-2013, 03:08 AM
This feels so wrong. To me, sewing is what you do when you've lost a button or there's a tear in your shirt or something. Writing is expressing the human condition, it's bringing your imagination onto the page in the hopes of entertaining. There is something deeply spiritual about storytelling among us humans. Stories were incredibly important, for history (before written records), for morals, to give us a sense of why the hell were here.



Ehh, I disagree with you. :) I don't like it when anyone in any profession thinks their profession is somehow more special, more superior, more artistic, or requires most passion or whatever speshul ingredient. I don't sew, but I've seen people do wonders with cloth that make my maw drop open. I've seen the most delicate fabrics being sewn to make amazing works of art. The same goes for many, many professions.

Mr. Putt is a physicist. I never expected to be able to find so much passion in physics, but when he talks about the theories behind his work, I'm always amazed by the creativity that goes on behind the scenes. Sometimes, the way he explains quantum physics makes me feel like I could almost touch the secret of the universe...like it's juuust a little bit out of reach. Physics can be really beautiful and can express the human condition too.

So I say blargh to this concept that just because we write, we're somehow more special than those who choose a different path. To someone, sewing may be just a matter of fixing holes in your socks. To a seamster/seamstress, writing could be just a matter of jotting down a shopping list. :D

...Um, yea, sorry for the total derail. It's just...something...I have such feels about.

*steps off soapbox into mud*

MookyMcD
12-27-2013, 03:12 AM
By that definition, when I cook, it is art. When I write, it is art. When I flyfish, it may well be art.

When I sew, it's because something is torn and I'm not ready to throw it away. When I paint, it's because something needs to be a different color.

It's not that I don't think sewing or painting can be art, they just aren't when I do them.

Mr Flibble
12-27-2013, 03:53 AM
Sometimes I don't get dressed until 5 minutes before the kids get home from school

I'm really getting the hang of this living my art :D


By that definition, when I cook, it is art. When I write, it is art. When I flyfish, it may well be art.

When I sew, it's because something is torn and I'm not ready to throw it away. When I paint, it's because something needs to be a different color.

I think the difference here is doing something because it needs to be done, and doing it because you love it. (Almost) Anything you do just because you love it can become a form of art (even if it's not Art with a capital Ar). Bunging something together on the stove because the kids are hungry isn't art, but spending time perfecting a recipe, experimenting with texture and flavour to try for perfection, just because, can be. Repairing a torn pair of trousers, prolly not art. Making a lifesize representation of your dog in crochet/embroidery/tapestry/pottery? Yup.

It may not hang in a museum, but putting passion, craft, love into something can make it art. Art is the expression of what you are passionate about.

ZachJPayne
12-27-2013, 04:00 AM
This thread reminds me of this song :)

http://youtu.be/MZQ88pdY64M

Loving the discussion here!

Putputt
12-27-2013, 04:30 AM
Fair enough about the sewing, but that wasn't my point. What I was saying is writing shouldn't be looked on as more than just another hobby, like collecting decorative salt shakers or something (though I bet someone has an example of how amazing salt shakers can be lol). If it didn't have an intrinsic value of itself then Shakespeare would have been just as well off being a tradesman like his father. Not all writing is Shakespeare but it is definitely all creative expression, and it should be respected.


Nothing, when being pursued as more than a hobby, should be looked at as "just another hobby". If I wanted to be a serious painter, painting would not be just a hobby. Same goes for writing, engineering, and so on. I don't believe that there is an intrinsic value in writing. Just about anyone can write. I don't see why writing in itself deserves more respect than any other forms of self expression. I think Mr Flibble said it much more eloquently than I could, so I'm just going to quote her:




I think the difference here is doing something because it needs to be done, and doing it because you love it. (Almost) Anything you do just because you love it can become a form of art (even if it's not Art with a capital Ar). Bunging something together on the stove because the kids are hungry isn't art, but spending time perfecting a recipe, experimenting with texture and flavour to try for perfection, just because, can be. Repairing a torn pair of trousers, prolly not art. Making a lifesize representation of your dog in crochet/embroidery/tapestry/pottery? Yup.

It may not hang in a museum, but putting passion, craft, love into something can make it art. Art is the expression of what you are passionate about.

DeadCities
12-27-2013, 04:40 AM
I agree, Mr. Flibble also said what I meant better, which is why I opted out. :tongue

MookyMcD
12-27-2013, 10:26 AM
Agree. Plus I'm a sucker for people who spell flavor with a "u." :)

bearilou
12-27-2013, 10:07 PM
Agree. Plus I'm a sucker for people who spell flavor with a "u." :)

It IS particularly sexy.

eyeblink
12-27-2013, 11:07 PM
Ooh, Mr Flibble, I think you've scored...

Mr Flibble
12-27-2013, 11:12 PM
It looks that way, but hey, you can really handle a "u" yourself and I can share so....

:D

thothguard51
12-28-2013, 12:00 AM
I spent 40 years in construction. Everything from a laborer to a project superintendent. I have built decks, barns, houses, tool sheds, and everything else all the way up to skyscrapers and 300,000 sq feet warehouses. I saw a lot of artistry during those year from guys doing nothing more than their jobs.

Art is and has always been in the eyes of the beholder...