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Zoombie
12-09-2013, 08:27 AM
See this movie.

That's...pretty much all I can put into this review without spoilers, but basically, ignore the commercials and the Oleg focused ad campaign, and just SEE THIS MOVIE.

Easily the best Disney movie since Mulan, and easily one of my favorite films of the year.

Also, avoid spoilers.

katiemac
12-09-2013, 09:48 AM
In the exact opposite spirit of Zoombie's "avoid spoilers," here you go. This is not the end of the film nor exactly spoilery but an entire scene/song here:

Let It Go by Idina Menzel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk)

Zoombie
12-09-2013, 09:52 AM
Well...to be fair, it is an amazingly awesome song.

CrastersBabies
12-09-2013, 09:53 AM
It was one of the few good songs, imho. Some of the musical numbers were just . . . too much. Like, "Oh, this is a perfect platform tooooo....

BREAK OUT INTO SONG!"

I could have used one, possibly two less songs--or shorter versions of.

But overall, it was a solid movie. :) I did like Olaf, though. The snowman. Thought he rocked.

ZachJPayne
12-09-2013, 09:56 AM
I do have a deep, abiding love for Idina Menzel. This is going on my to-see list (right behind Catching Fire), despite the fact I usually avoid cartoons.

Glad to hear that it's a keeper :)

katiemac
12-09-2013, 09:59 AM
It was one of the few good songs, imho. Some of the musical numbers were just . . . too much. Like, "Oh, this is a perfect platform tooooo....

BREAK OUT INTO SONG!"Something bothered me about the songs while I was watching it, I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Then I walked out realizing what: The songs are arranged for musical theater, not what you'd expect in a musical film. Having reconciled that idea I liked it much better.

But I really enjoyed how they subverted what's become the Disney norm--a couple of great twists, considering.

Zoombie
12-09-2013, 10:11 AM
My favorite thing is...

Well, the film has something suspiciously convenient. And it turns out I WAS RIGHT TO BE SUSPICIOUS.

Cyia
12-14-2013, 08:55 PM
Excellent movie. Really, really, really well done.

At the end, I would have liked to see:

Another scene with the stone trolls, just so they weren't completely dropped from the story.

but, overall it was one of the best Disney movies ever made.

Maramoser
12-15-2013, 01:54 AM
I saw it yesterday and I loved it! I don't know if it was hormones or the fact that I have a sister (or the fact that I love Disney movies) or what, but I had a strong emotional reaction to it. I liked it better than Tangled, its psuedo-predecessor. And everything Idina Menzel does is golden. That song is great!

seun
12-18-2013, 01:41 PM
Damn it. I thought this was going to be a thread about that film that came out a couple of years ago where the people get stuck on the ski lift.

Bufty
01-09-2015, 05:17 PM
I know this is resurrecting an old thread but I saw a Documentary on Frozen over the Christmas period and as a result bought the Movie.

A few smiles at Olaf, and some freezing effects but as a complete film I can't see what all the super-hype is about. Nothing I'm going to wake up humming or remembering for any length of time.

It's just another movie and - to me at least- Disney has made some wonderful movies over the years that are far more detailed and memorable than Frozen. Snow White, Bambi, Pinnochio, Cinderella... to name a few and that's just the pre-1950 stuff.

onesecondglance
01-09-2015, 05:51 PM
I saw it over Christmas for the first time, too.

It's a nice little story; nothing really to write home about in terms of plot or staging.

But it stays with me. I keep thinking about it. And I think that's because of how it plays with Disney tropes more than anything else.

Disney's films run to a certain set of rules, and Frozen kinda craps all over them in a lot of subtle (and not so subtle) ways. So while it's not the most staggeringly original fairytale, it's actually the most relevant thing I think Disney have done in ages.

So, yeah. Plus I may have slightly fallen in love with Elsa when she gets her flash new outfit. Sparkly heels ooooh

DeleyanLee
01-09-2015, 06:34 PM
I know this is resurrecting an old thread but I saw a Documentary on Frozen over the Christmas period and as a result bought the Movie.

A few smiles at Olaf, and some freezing effects but as a complete film I can't see what all the super-hype is about. Nothing I'm going to wake up humming or remembering for any length of time.

It's just another movie and - to me at least- Disney has made some wonderful movies over the years that are far more detailed and memorable than Frozen. Snow White, Bambi, Pinnochio, Cinderella... to name a few and that's just the pre-1950 stuff.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who wasn't swept away by it. I did a blog post (https://deleyanlee.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/story-for-boys-vs-story-for-girls/) about why it was actually a bad movie for young girls some time ago. Though Idina Menzel's singing is always spectacular. I was disappointed and unsurprised that they're working on Frozen 2.

Cyia
01-09-2015, 07:29 PM
Something about Frozen and the girl/bad for girls conundrum that I've seen mentioned elsewhere (something I didn't pick up on myself in the theater) is that while there may be some "empowering" moments for the female characters, their physical representations are problematic.

The male characters are cartoonish, but still normal-looking for the most part. Elsa and Anna look like 3-D dolls, with their faces not having actual human proportions.

LittlePinto
01-09-2015, 07:37 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one who wasn't swept away by it. I did a blog post (https://deleyanlee.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/story-for-boys-vs-story-for-girls/) about why it was actually a bad movie for young girls some time ago. Though Idina Menzel's singing is always spectacular. I was disappointed and unsurprised that they're working on Frozen 2.

That was a great post. I was also disappointed that Frozen really defined its female characters in terms of their relationships while simultaneously making them quite passive. I think what happened is the filmmakers confused "busy" with "active." Anna, for instance, does a lot of stuff but little of it actually makes a difference to the arc of the story.

I was fine with the themes of "Let It Go," however. Given how well we condition girls and women to ignore their own feelings and desires so as to not burden other people, I think it can be a real revelation for a film to say "it's OK not to do that."

Nevertheless, I agree that it was maybe a little misplaced in this film and reinforced the idea that Elsa was selfish and irresponsible. I think it would have been a stronger message had the film shown her being at the extreme end of selflessness, reaching a point where she can't give any more of herself, bouncing to the extreme end of selfishness, and then learning that you need to balance the two. It would have been a stronger character arc too.

Cyia
01-09-2015, 08:32 PM
Part of the issues with Elsa's personality likely stem from her starting off as a straight-up villain. She wasn't even minutely good in the original versions, and was tweaked into the version we've seen on screen, but they may have left too much of the self-centered snow-monster in her.

Toothpaste
01-09-2015, 09:26 PM
I have to preface this by saying I really enjoyed FROZEN (though not the songs). But I always felt it was far less subversive than everyone was saying. I felt it was mocking things that people mock in Disney movies except that those things don't actually really exist in Disney movies. So when this MASSIVELY long article came along I was all, "Yes! Thank you!"

https://medium.com/@directordanic/the-problem-with-false-feminism-7c0bbc7252ef

It takes a while to read, so here are a few choice quotes if you don't have the time:


here’s a particular pattern that I’ve noticed in Disney animated features. Disney princesses state what they want, usually very early in the film, and they tend to get it. Belle wants to escape her provincial life, and that’s exactly what she does. Rapunzel wants to figure out what the glowing lights mean, and again: that’s exactly what she does, discovering her whole hidden history in the process. Mulan wants to bring honour to her family, and she ends up bringing honour to the whole of China. Even Ariel, who of all the recent Disney princesses is the most criticised for a lack of ambition outside of love, wants to experience life as a human long before she meets Eric. Tiana wants a restaurant, Pocahontas wants to choose her own path, Jasmine wants to escape the confines of patriarchal law; the list goes on. And the men in these stories? They’re the bonus prizes.

. . .

If it sounds simplistic, it’s because it is. No matter how much Disney animated films may appeal to adults, their target demographic is still children — and usually children under the age of twelve. For stories that are essentially morality tales, simplicity is a benefit. So the heroine states her goal within the first fifteen minutes of the movie, usually in the Menken-styled “I want” song, and that means that everyone in the audience knows precisely when to cheer at the end of the movie. Ariel wants to be human, so we cheer when Triton gives her her legs; Mulan wants to bring honour to her family, so we cheer when she returns home with the Emperor’s gifts; Belle wants “adventure in the great, wide somewhere”, and oh boy, does she get what she asked for. Pocahontas chooses her own path, Merida changes her fate, Tiana gets her restaurant, and so on.

Just like every other Disney princess, Anna states what she wants very early on. She wants to find “the one”. And, just like every other Disney princess, she gets exactly what she wants. Her renewed relationship with Elsa; the castle gates being opened for good: these are the bonus prizes. Anna’s real goal is true love. We know this for certain because, just like every Disney heroine before her, she helpfully tells us so in her first scene as an adult. Her “I want” song is all about finding a man and falling in love; she doesn’t even mention her sister. As far as I can tell, she can’t get away from Elsa and everything she represents fast enough.


It’s a lambasting of the Disney princess tradition, and theoretically a fairly incisive one. You shouldn’t marry a man you just met. It’s unquestionably stupid, and poking fun at the fact that Disney has been not-so-subtly encouraging that approach for decades is a smart move. I mean, come on: how many Disney princesses or leading ladies have fallen in love at first sight with a man they barely know?

Four. That’s how many. Rather than boring you with more tables, I’ll just name them: Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora and Ariel. Disney ladies actually tend towards quite extended courtships, and the men are more likely to fall in love at first sight than the women are. Each of the four love-at-first-sight princesses have love interests who fall just as quickly as they do — Ariel’s Prince Eric falls in love with a girl he just heard — and you can add Aladdin, Quasimodo, Hercules and Tarzan to the list of men who let their eyes do the thinking for them (more if you count the animal characters).



Quick trivia question: in how many Disney princess movies is the day saved by True Love’s Kiss™?

Two. Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. Disney has been cleverly subverting the True Love’s Kiss trope for over fifty years. Ariel misses her True Love’s Kiss and has to earn her right to be a human instead; Belle doesn’t kiss the Beast until after he transforms (thankfully, or think of the hairballs), and Pocahontas’ True Love’s Kiss kiss literally gets people killed. In The Princess and the Frog, the trope is subverted far more cleverly than in Frozen, when the kiss that will transform Naveen back is revealed to be a matter of semantics, not love. Naveen could have saved himself by kissing any old princess, whether he loved her or not: it is not until he and Tiana have married for the right reasons that their kiss has any meaning, literally or figuratively.

J.S.F.
01-12-2015, 06:57 PM
Oh mah god, after Toothpaste's critical detailing of Frozen I'm shocked into speechlessness which is a rare thing for me.

:D

On a serious note, I bought the film for my wife and children to enjoy, and yes, IDINA MENZEL DESERVES TO BE PRESIDENT!

There, I said it. Come at me.

Having said all that, what I liked about the film was the usual quality animation--and we can quibble all we like about Elsa's eyes and head being too big and the rest of the people being ordinary, but that's how they drew her, okay?--moments of humor and heartbreak, and, of course, IDINA MENZEL!

There, I said it again, so come at me again.

Now, the story itself is really nothing special. Mutated girl doesn't want to be bad, ends up being sorta bad, is redeemed by her love for her sister and of course there's the obligatory comic relief by a snowman and the dorky boyfriend. This is nothing new for Disney.

As for the hidden meanings read by some, read all you like. I found nothing 'subversive' in it that shouldn't have been there in the first place. It's a friggin' Disney flick, and that means if they put ANYTHING in there that hinted at what some were saying...it wouldn't wash. So to me, it was a very nice movie with a massive ad campaign behind it, has made gazillions of dollars, I bought the DVD, and, naturally, Idina Menzel rocks.

/rant

:)

Cyia
01-12-2015, 07:23 PM
I'm going to go on the record as saying in Frozen 2, Anna will have fire powers. There's a definite rift in the numbers between who likes Elsa and who likes Anna. Anna's basically the doll you get your kid because all of the Elsas are gone, and it's still technically Frozen.

Myrealana
01-12-2015, 07:31 PM
I love Frozen. I've watched it at least a dozen times. The songs leapt to my "Top 50 Most Frequently Played" playlist on iTunes. I absolutely adore it.

My younger son enjoys it, and sings along with me.

I don't particularly care about in-depth analysis of whether Anna or Elsa qualify as "strong women" characters. I think they both acted and reacted in turn, like people. I connected with them both in their emotional journey.

It's a good movie.

onesecondglance
01-12-2015, 08:17 PM
I'm going to go on the record as saying in Frozen 2, Anna will have fire powers. There's a definite rift in the numbers between who likes Elsa and who likes Anna. Anna's basically the doll you get your kid because all of the Elsas are gone, and it's still technically Frozen.

Anna is a supporting character to the movie's arc, which is built around Elsa.

*slinks away*

Cyia
01-12-2015, 10:04 PM
Anna is a supporting character to the movie's arc, which is built around Elsa.

*slinks away*

I don't think she's a supporting character at all. Elsa's character is reactive; Anna's is proactive. She's the protagonist, or at least co-protagonist.

Lena Hillbrand
01-12-2015, 10:41 PM
Anna's basically the doll you get your kid because all of the Elsas are gone, and it's still technically Frozen.

That's funny b/c I was at Target buying these reusable shopping bags with Frozen scenes to use as gift bags for Christmas, and I kept wondering why Elsa was all over them and I could hardly find one with Anna.

Maybe just my own reaction to the story and identifying with her b/c of my relationship to my sister, but in my mind, Anna was the protagonist. Seems like she got more screen-time anyway.

Toothpaste
01-13-2015, 12:09 AM
Lol, well it wasn't my article, I was quoting it.

I guess for me since I find the music mediocre at best (and just plain cheesy at worst), I have the story and animation to cling to. I thought the story was fine, really enjoyed Olaf, and thought the animation was beautiful. But I was stunned by how revolutionary people were considering the story to be. And quite frankly I found the attitude was inadvertently insulting the Disney films that came before, as if every other Disney film was just a cliche and did nothing interesting or subversive. And since I prefer many of the Disney films that came before, it started to make me feel a little defensive. I honestly think there are higher quality Disney films than FROZEN, I think there are better written films, better songs in other films, and since all anyone wants to talk about is how revolutionary and amazing and how much money FROZEN made and how it is the best one ever, well, I thought maybe another perspective might be interesting.

Doesn't mean after all this I didn't enjoy the film. I just thought others might want to see a slightly different perspective than just the raging hype machine. (btw as a fan of things that have had raging hype, HARRY POTTER, LOTR I'm not dissing it at all, love me some raging hype definitely :) )

Cyia
01-13-2015, 04:54 AM
LI found the attitude was inadvertently insulting the Disney films that came before, as if every other Disney film was just a cliche and did nothing interesting or subversive.


I can't remember where I read it, but one comment about the "subversive" bit was that they tried so hard to deviate from the "true love's kiss" moment, that they inadvertently messed up a potentially satisfying ending.

The Earl of Wesselton was already a good "big bad." He was greedy, willing to kill, and willing to have the queen labelled as a sorceress because he was afraid of her.

Hans and Anna didn't need the "if only someone loved you moment." If they'd been paired off, they could have both been happy. He was higher up the power chain, and she would have had her "prince."

Likewise, Kristoph, lover of all things icy, was a better fit for Elsa. (I'll admit, at the end, I expected to see that Elsa had made him his own ice palace for an emporium, given his new title.)

They got so caught up in the twists that they inadvertently filled the story with a whole lot of "could have beens."

BenPanced
01-13-2015, 05:33 AM
Director Jennifer Lee apologizes for Let It Go: (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/frozen-director-apologizes-parents-let-756614)


"A year ago, I'd meet people who, when they found out who I was, they'd say, 'Oh, we love the songs! We sing them all the time.' Now they're like, 'Yep, we're still listening to those songs,' " laughs Lee. "I've gone from, 'Thank you,' to, 'Sorry!' "

Toothpaste
01-13-2015, 05:47 AM
I can't remember where I read it, but one comment about the "subversive" bit was that they tried so hard to deviate from the "true love's kiss" moment, that they inadvertently messed up a potentially satisfying ending.


Though of course if you read that article I posted there are only 2 instances of true love's kiss saving the day and Disney has been subverting that trope for forever (including in THE PRINCESS AND THE FROG, which was a total crazy subversion).

And yeah, though I don't find any of those could have beens all that interesting either. I actually don't mind the plot and I like that a female character winds up unattached at the end. I just don't see it as groundbreaking and awe inspiring as some. And it is certainly not the best Disney animated feature in my opinion by a long shot.