Pop Culture References in Urban Fantasy

Riftrunner

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Let me start out by saying that nearly every class I've taken and many fellow writers I've spoken to have advised me to avoid dropping pop culture references in my writing since it can date the work. Personally I tend to ignore that little nugget of friendly advice when it comes to urban fantasy as pop culture and a tale that is set in the here and now go hand in hand. We all make mention of shows, movies, or music in day to day life so I see it as normal should a character choose to do the same.

Granted like all things moderation is important, but I admit to having a snarky MC complain over the fact that the Winchesters never would have dislocated their shoulders trying to force a locked door in. Another may or may not have called the patrons of a bar uglier than the creatures in the cantina scene from Star Wars.

So what say you? Are pop culture references a huge no-no or do you enjoy it when a character acknowledges things a real person may have seen?
 
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Wilde_at_heart

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You might get away with a 'Star Wars' reference because it's now considered more of a 'classic' now and has (so far) stood the test of time.

As for the Winchesters, I've no idea what you are referring to, just googled 'the Winchesters' and still don't know. When I think 'Winchester' I think of a type of rifle...
 

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I'd say the more well-known the reference, the better, but even then, there will be people who won't get it. It risks pulling the reader out of the story when they go, "Wait, I don't get it. Were the Winchesters mentioned earlier in the book? Did I miss something?" It may not be a book-closer, but it could for some people. Really all depends on the reader. They might put down the book, or it may get them interested in a new tv show or movie. If it's not necessary or could be said without the reference, then drop it. If your character "knows what they're doing because saw this on Supernatural" or is a huge pop culture fan and would make references, something like that would probably be all right.

Wilde at heart, Supernatural is the show the Winchesters are in.
 

Riftrunner

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Well the Winchester remark has more context in the actual story as the character who is new to the concept of monsters being real only has knowledge of their pop culture counterparts and laments on it never being as easy as on T.V. but its a very specific one time occurrence unique to this particular character, but point taken. For the most part I stick to classic well known subjects if at all.
 

johnhallow

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I don't mind it, as long as the writer doesn't keep throwing them out.

"He looked a bit like Danny McGee from Morning Bread with the same goofy glasses, only he wasn't wearing the scarf" -- who?

It's fine if this happens once or twice (I sort of just assume that it's me living under a rock) but after three+ times it becomes very irritating. It begins to feel like the author hasn't taken his or her readers into consideration, and is just assuming everyone has had their exact same experiences or is into the things they like :p

Anyway I think the Winchesters are pretty okay seeing as many UF readers will at least have a general idea of what the show's about, due to its popularity with fans of the genre. But if you do include it I'd suggest you stay away from using more references that you aren't sure will be recognised, so that the references don't get jarring for those out of the loop.

It can also be annoying if there are simply too many references full stop... I remember one Dresden Files book where Harry Dresden kept making pop ref quips. It got old. It didn't make much of a difference in the end (I still thoroughly enjoyed the book), but it stood out as annoying for me... I don't know why it threw me off so much. Some of my friends agreed, though.
 
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CHehr

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I think the more universal the reference, the better. What I mean by that is, the more enduring or popular the thing is that you're referencing, the less likely it is to date your work or confuse someone as being an "inside" joke.

For example: If you reference Clint Eastwood, Nirvana, The Godfather, or Star Trek, these are references nearly all readers will get. If you reference, say, a grunge band from the 90s Seattle scene that never made it big (Mudhoney, for instance), then it's going to be lost on a lot of people.

So I'd say if you want to make pop culture references, reference things or people that are enduring and extremely well-known. That way the references are more likely to hit their mark with the readers.
 

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I've used comparisons frequently by inserting a fake name with the comparison. Like a pop star wanting to hire my character as a bodyguard and her friend saying, "O. M. G! Are you kidding me? He's been in the Billboard #1 slot longer than Michael Jackson!"
 

MormonMobster

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I feel like it works if the pop culture reference is dated, but well-known enough that many readers know it. Like when Harry Dresden makes a Star Wars or Lord of the Rings joke, it works because people know Star Wars well enough that the reference doesn't pull you out of the setting.

I actually liked Dresden's off-hand reference that Bram Stoker's Dracula wiped out most of the Black Court of vampires, it made a real-life book fit in with the setting very well.
 

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Depends on the Urban Fantasy setting in most cases. If you take a person plunged into the middle of our time then they are as unaware of your references as you are of theirs. It could be used and explained away like heavy in Back to the Future, 'Doc Brown, "Is there something wrong with Earth's gravity in your time?"' in response to Marty saying heavy all the time.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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Ready Player One is nothing BUT pop culture references, but it still works. Just know that it can date the work depending on what you're referencing, and make sure you market to an audience that'll know what you're talking about.
 

Maggie Maxwell

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Ready Player One is nothing BUT pop culture references, but it still works. Just know that it can date the work depending on what you're referencing, and make sure you market to an audience that'll know what you're talking about.

Oh god yes, so many references, and one of my favorite books because of it. It's well done, making it work due to the background of the setting without making it feel like "this book is old because of the references".
 

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Well the Winchester remark has more context in the actual story as the character who is new to the concept of monsters being real only has knowledge of their pop culture counterparts and laments on it never being as easy as on T.V. but its a very specific one time occurrence unique to this particular character, but point taken. For the most part I stick to classic well known subjects if at all.

The only Winchester I know of is the rifle. Oh and I think it's a cigarette too.

I think I watched Supernatural all of 3 times and had zero idea what the characters' last names are. Heck, I don't even know what their first names are. So a reference like this would confuse the heck out of me as a reader.

10 years from now Supernatural will probably have been long cancelled. At that point a good portion of your readers will have as little idea who the Winchesters are as I do now. Those who do remember it will probably say, "Sheesh, when was this written? That hasn't been on for ages."

In my book I had a few occasions where the little kids were watching movies - I gave them as Finding Nemo, James and the Giant Peach, and Peter Pan. All three are classics, and either way, would probably be in any decent library of movies kept for "kid-distraction purposes." I also had the kids watching "the latest Disney princess movie," since I figured Disney will be cranking those out for the next century or so.

In some ways, we can't help but date our stories. If my book had been written twenty years ago, there would have been a payphone on every corner for my character to call home. I gave her a cell phone (but conveniently she was out of range and then took a swim in a river with it). Ten years from now there might be no such thing as being out of range of a cell tower. Or maybe we won't be using cell phones any more. Who knows?

I also referenced Homeland Security very briefly, but I figure those buggers are unfortunately here to stay.
 

baileycakes14

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Like most people, I think it depends on the nature of the pop-culture references. A reference to Star Wars or Jurassic Park or something will probably still be relevant and recognizable in 10, 15, or 20 years. Mentioning Supernatural (as much as I LOVE that show) might not be recognizable at all. Mentioning one of the dozens of one-hit-wonders of 2013 is probably a poor choice, while mentioning the Rolling Stones is probably safe. So again, I think it depends.

There is also a way to add them in and have them be just a little *nudge-nudge-wink-wink* at the people who get it. For instance, one of my characters says "frak" only once in my novel. It sounds funny and obviously stands in for F---, so people who don't get it will still understand what's going on and maybe roll their eyes or laugh at the funny word. However, for the fans of Battlestar Galactica it's a friendly little wave of acknowledgement.
 

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I think the best pop culture references are those where you can glean the meaning even if you were unfamiliar with the source. For example. Even if you had never heard of Star Wars, the title alone makes it obvious it is set in either outer space or different planets. So a reader could glean a cantina or dive bar reference as one being full of weird looking aliens.

With the Winchesters, yeah, I thought rifles too. I figured it was a TV reference but that was the limit of it except that many they are quite large.
 
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TheGreySentinel

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I think you can get away with the occasional obscure reference. Dresden Files references Firefly a few times, for example. As long as the majority of your references are mainstream ones it shouldn't be a big deal. Most people would recognize: "You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means." And those who don't will understand what is being said anyway.
 

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I like the nerdy pop culture references (I loved Ready Player One), but I rarely get the mainstream ones. If you mention a sports star, I probably won't know who you're talking about, so you'd better give me some context in the story. And I've read Urban Fantasy and general Contemporary Fiction stories that constantly list which name brand the characters' clothes, shoes, etc. are. I have no idea what they mean and it gets old fast. (Am I supposed to be impressed that they can buy such expensive stuff? Is one character wearing "alternative" brands that's supposed to indicate that they're "setting their own style" or whatever?)

I think with context it can work. Just add enough other details that even people who won't recognize the reference will understand what it's supposed to mean.
 

elinor

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With great power comes great responsibility.

See what I did there?

A good pop cultural reference I think doesn't require a person to know what is going on. It stands on its own. But it's a double hit with the readers who "are in the know". By responsibility I mean that with pop cultural references one must be careful about their use. They are fine and dandy, but they must be used wisely.
 

Laer Carroll

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I think with context it can work. Just add enough other details that even people who won't recognize the reference will understand what it's supposed to mean.

I think you have put your finger exactly on the point.

All my books so far take place in an alternate universe similar to ours. So my few pop culture references have to explain themselves with little or no context.

For instance, in a few cases I refer to the product PhotoFix, obvious to those who know the reference as an analog of Photoshop. But the term and the context makes it clear what is meant to those who don’t know about Photoshop.

At another point my MC says to herself, “I’ve really been watching too much Star Voyagers.” The SV title almost explains itself. The context completes the task. Ditto another reference, to the Star Battles movies.
 

Smeasking

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This has been an informative thread. I've read lots of books with pop culture tidbits. For anything that I didn't "get" but cared enough to figure out what the author meant, I just Googled it. Anything else, I just disregarded if there wasn't a clear reason why it was mentioned.

In my own story I mention Gears of War, Star Wars and Twilight. I made sure to include the tags: video game, sibling relationship subplot, and movie, just for the reader to get the gist of where the dialogue/thoughts were referencing from. According to beta readers, it seems to have worked fine. Male betas understood the Gears of War description of a character, everyone understood the Star Wars reference to a book the MC was reading, and females all thought my Twilight references were hilarious in dialogue between two of my main characters.

Like anything else, I guess it just depends how it's written into the story. :)
 

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If you live in the 'advanced' nations, you're in a world of pop-culture, brands etc. To deliberately avoid them feels way to Blue Peter-ish (Sticky-back plastic? What's that?) - and ignoring the fact that people use them all the time. If I'm thinking of mentioning a particular pop-culture thing, I try to work out whether it's still going to be remembered a decade from now: my MC in my WIP is reading Terry Pratchett's Mort, for example.
 

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I must admit I wouldn't get a "Gears of War" reference - I'm not even sure what that is, but I'm guessing a video game?

My MMC is a fan of old movies and does drop the odd reference into his dialogue but they tend to be things like Dirty Harry which have already stood the test of time, but then said MC is in his 40s. If your characters are a lot younger, then something like a video game or Twilight reference makes perfect sense.
 

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Harry Dresden uses pop culture references all the time. Occasionally, when I remember that he sends electronics into fits whenever he's near, I wonder exactly when and where he saw all these movies and TV shows, but it doesn't hurt the moment.

He talks like my friends, so I like him.

In my urban fantasy books, I have a point where the telepathic MC is trying to get away and she waves her hand at another character and says "You never saw me here." It doesn't work and he asks "Did you just try to Jedi mind-trick me?"
 
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Shadow_Ferret

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With entertainment becoming more and more splintered as far as viewership, its getting harder and harder to insert pop culture references into your story that everyone will understand. Back before cable when everyone watched OTA tv, you had a better chance that if you said the Robinsons, most would understand it was from Lost in Space. Or if you said, the Cartrights, or Marshall Dillon, or the Bunkers. Now, not everyone knows who Amy Pond is, and many of us even here didn't understand the Winchesters remark. But most everyone has heard of Star Wars. Or Captain Kirk. I have a few pop culture references, such as Batman and Robin.

You don't want to confuse the reader. For the Winchesters remark, it might be better to say, "the brothers from 'Suoernatural.'" Something a little more direct.
 

Dave.C.Robinson

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With entertainment becoming more and more splintered as far as viewership, its getting harder and harder to insert pop culture references into your story that everyone will understand. Back before cable when everyone watched OTA tv, you had a better chance that if you said the Robinsons, most would understand it was from Lost in Space. Or if you said, the Cartrights, or Marshall Dillon, or the Bunkers. Now, not everyone knows who Amy Pond is, and many of us even here didn't understand the Winchesters remark. But most everyone has heard of Star Wars. Or Captain Kirk. I have a few pop culture references, such as Batman and Robin.

You don't want to confuse the reader. For the Winchesters remark, it might be better to say, "the brothers from 'Suoernatural.'" Something a little more direct.

Thank you, I'd read the entire thread wondering what "Winchesters" meant in this context.