FOREIGN PUBLISHER: why are royalties so SMALL??

nancyadams · Nov 8, 2013

Hi. I've been contacted by a publisher in Sweden who wants to publish my non-fiction book, and the royalty is SO small: 6% and only paying me once a year, plus an upfront amount less than $2000. Is that 6% normal? I have nothing to compare to.

Nancy

Old Hack · Nov 8, 2013

This isn't a self-publishing question, so I'll move it to General Publishing Discussions.

Yes, 6% does sound like a small royalty percentage to me too, even for print rights (I assume they're only asking for print rights? If they want digital too, then this is definitely a problem) but as I know so little about your book don't rely on me on this. I assume they're open to negotiation: can you not ask them why they're offering such a small amount?

Ask how many copies they expect to sell of this book, to see if the advance equates to their expectations; and check whether they're asking for translation rights too.

Payment once a year sounds odd too: I'm more used to payments arriving twice-yearly, but if that's how their accounts are set up you might find that one more difficult to negotiate on.

nancyadams · Nov 9, 2013

Old Hack said:
This isn't a self-publishing question, so I'll move it to General Publishing Discussions.

Yes, 6% does sound like a small royalty percentage to me too, even for print rights (I assume they're only asking for print rights? If they want digital too, then this is definitely a problem) but as I know so little about your book don't rely on me on this. I assume they're open to negotiation: can you not ask them why they're offering such a small amount?

Ask how many copies they expect to sell of this book, to see if the advance equates to their expectations; and check whether they're asking for translation rights too.

Payment once a year sounds odd too: I'm more used to payments arriving twice-yearly, but if that's how their accounts are set up you might find that one more difficult to negotiate on.

My book is actually a self-published book and I own the publishing company. Yes, this is for print rights.

I did express my concern about how low it was, not because I've had a lot of experience with foreign publishers, but simply because it seemed paltry compared to the royalties I get from Amazon and Barnes & Noble...and paltry considering all the work I put into this book.

Her reply was that it was actually generous, and she did move the advance payment up to $2600. So all I knew to do is head over here and find out if anyone else has dealt with foreign publishers and what royalty percent did they get. I'm shocked.

thothguard51 · Nov 9, 2013

Smaller market?

Old Hack · Nov 9, 2013

nancyadams said:
My book is actually a self-published book and I own the publishing company. Yes, this is for print rights.

I did express my concern about how low it was, not because I've had a lot of experience with foreign publishers, but simply because it seemed paltry compared to the royalties I get from Amazon and Barnes & Noble...and paltry considering all the work I put into this book.

Her reply was that it was actually generous, and she did move the advance payment up to $2600. So all I knew to do is head over here and find out if anyone else has dealt with foreign publishers and what royalty percent did they get. I'm shocked.

You're going to get a much bigger share of the retail price if you're the publisher, because you have to cover the cost of publishing in addition to paying royalties to your authors. That's true whether you're a self publisher or a trade publisher.

You're likely to sell more copies through a trade publisher than if you self publish, though, and you don't have to spend money or time on the publishing side, so it's swings and roundabouts.

Consider how many copies you're likely to sell in this territory without the publisher, and how many you're likely to sell with them. Also, if this publisher likes it then others might also be keen, so you could shop around for a better deal. But even so, don't expect the royalties per copy sold to go much above 10-15%.

Maxinquaye · Nov 9, 2013

Hi, I'm Swedish so maybe I can answer your questions, but I'd like to know more. For instance, who is the Publisher?

Here in this country there are a number of things that are different than in the US/UK. There are some things that are the same. Instead of 'the big six', here you have the 'big three'. Those are trade publishers with extensive distribution and a number of separate imprints.

Beyond those three, you're basically moving into small presses, and those don't have the economic stamina to be anything than hobby things, really.

There is no agency system here. In fact, literary agents would be viewed with considerable scepticism here.

The language is different, so I'm not sure if you're saying that your book would be translated into Swedish first, and then published. If you're talking about a small press, then you'll likely facing one) that the fee for translation has to come out of your royalties and two) that you're looking at printing a few hundred copies at most. If it's one of the Big Three, then yes, it is a paltry royalty because they can print a far larger print run.

Old Hack · Nov 10, 2013

Maxinquaye said:
The language is different, so I'm not sure if you're saying that your book would be translated into Swedish first, and then published. If you're talking about a small press, then you'll likely facing one) that the fee for translation has to come out of your royalties and two) that you're looking at printing a few hundred copies at most. If it's one of the Big Three, then yes, it is a paltry royalty because they can print a far larger print run.

Translation costs should be covered by the publisher. They do not come out of the writer's royalties, ever, and if they do then that's a big red flag, in my opinion.

nancyadams · Nov 10, 2013

Maxinquaye said:
Hi, I'm Swedish so maybe I can answer your questions, but I'd like to know more. For instance, who is the Publisher?

Here in this country there are a number of things that are different than in the US/UK. There are some things that are the same. Instead of 'the big six', here you have the 'big three'. Those are trade publishers with extensive distribution and a number of separate imprints.

Beyond those three, you're basically moving into small presses, and those don't have the economic stamina to be anything than hobby things, really.

There is no agency system here. In fact, literary agents would be viewed with considerable scepticism here.

The language is different, so I'm not sure if you're saying that your book would be translated into Swedish first, and then published. If you're talking about a small press, then you'll likely facing one) that the fee for translation has to come out of your royalties and two) that you're looking at printing a few hundred copies at most. If it's one of the Big Three, then yes, it is a paltry royalty because they can print a far larger print run.

Hi. Thanks for responding. That is interesting information.

Yes, it would be translated. I'll have to go back and look, but there is a pretty impressive website that I checked out. So for that alone, it seems paltry. And I'm not sure that fees should be taken out of my royalty!! I wish this string would also attract someone who has dealt with a foreign publishing company so I could compare.

nancyadams · Nov 10, 2013

Old Hack said:
Translation costs should be covered by the publisher. They do not come out of the writer's royalties, ever, and if they do then that's a big red flag, in my opinion.

Thank you for that information. I would have to ask him if it is or not. Either way, 6% seems paltry to me and I needed to see from all of you if it sounded that way, too.

aruna · Nov 10, 2013

I have had several contracts with foreign publishers. I don't have any of the contracts to hand so I can't check, and it was quite a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure they were more than 6%, and probably the same as my British rates. The advances were mixed; in one case (Germany) very high, otherwise in the region of €5000 Euros. These were major publishers in France, Spain and Denmark.

A major Polish publisher also bought foreign rights and their advance was pretty paltry, less than what you have been offered.

In all cases, payment is once a year.

As Old Hack says, I did not pay for translation. All translation costs were covered by the publishers.
I had to pay a larger commission to my agent (20% vs 15%) but that was the only difference.

mccardey · Nov 10, 2013

nancyadams said:
My book is actually a self-published book and I own the publishing company. Yes, this is for print rights. .

Just a guess - but is it possible that this is because first rights have been used already? Because you self-pubbed already (if this is the same book)?

aruna · Nov 10, 2013

OK, I checked my Polish contract which I do have to hand.
The royalty rate is 8% for print and 25% for e-rights.
The advance was $1500.
Payment is once a year in December.
Hope this helps.

Old Hack · Nov 10, 2013

mccardey said:
Just a guess - but is it possible that this is because first rights have been used already? Because you self-pubbed already (if this is the same book)?

That wouldn't be an issue here. Or at least, it shouldn't.

Most translation rights are sold after the book has already been published in its original language.

nancyadams · Nov 14, 2013

aruna said:
I have had several contracts with foreign publishers. I don't have any of the contracts to hand so I can't check, and it was quite a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure they were more than 6%, and probably the same as my British rates. The advances were mixed; in one case (Germany) very high, otherwise in the region of €5000 Euros. These were major publishers in France, Spain and Denmark.

A major Polish publisher also bought foreign rights and their advance was pretty paltry, less than what you have been offered.

In all cases, payment is once a year.

As Old Hack says, I did not pay for translation. All translation costs were covered by the publishers.
I had to pay a larger commission to my agent (20% vs 15%) but that was the only difference.

Thank you. That confirms to me that his offer of royalties was paltry. Now I have to figure out how much to counter with in the risk that he'll say NO WAY.

nancyadams · Nov 14, 2013

mccardey said:
Just a guess - but is it possible that this is because first rights have been used already? Because you self-pubbed already (if this is the same book)?

Help me understand what you mean. Yes, I self-pubbed first.

nancyadams · Nov 17, 2013

mccardey (or anyone), can you explain what you mean about first rights being used up first? I need to understand.

nancyadams · Nov 17, 2013

Old Hack said:
Yes, 6% does sound like a small royalty percentage to me too, even for print rights (I assume they're only asking for print rights? If they want digital too, then this is definitely a problem) but as I know so little about your book don't rely on me on this. I assume they're open to negotiation: can you not ask them why they're offering such a small amount?

Ask how many copies they expect to sell of this book, to see if the advance equates to their expectations; and check whether they're asking for translation rights too.

Payment once a year sounds odd too: I'm more used to payments arriving twice-yearly, but if that's how their accounts are set up you might find that one more difficult to negotiate on.

Old Hack, do you know of any info on the web I can read about this issue with foreign rights for my self-published book?? Because when I expressed concern a week ago about what was being offered, royalty-wise, he expressed surprise, saying it was a good offer, plus once a year was normal. I don't get that!!

Old Hack · Nov 17, 2013

nancyadams said:
mccardey (or anyone), can you explain what you mean about first rights being used up first? I need to understand.

First rights are the rights to publish a work first. Some publishers only want first rights, although this is primarily an issue with periodicals publishers and not book publishers.

nancyadams said:
Old Hack, do you know of any info on the web I can read about this issue with foreign rights for my self-published book?? Because when I expressed concern a week ago about what was being offered, royalty-wise, he expressed surprise, saying it was a good offer, plus once a year was normal. I don't get that!!

The publisher might consider his offer a good one. If you do, then accept it. If you don't, you could look elsewhere.

In my view the royalty offered could be improved, however, by a few percentage points. Have you asked for this?

It could be that this publisher only pays once a year. This used to be common but twice-yearly payments are now more usual with print publishers. This probably isn't something you can change through negotiations, as the publisher's accounting systems are relatively fixed, and I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker.

nancyadams · Nov 18, 2013

Old Hack said:
The publisher might consider his offer a good one. If you do, then accept it. If you don't, you could look elsewhere.

In my view the royalty offered could be improved, however, by a few percentage points. Have you asked for this?

No. I'm pretty new at this. I simply expressed concern at how low it was, and his response was that it's a "high royalty". I was shocked and headed over here for opinion.

Old Hack · Nov 18, 2013

It's not a high royalty.

Are you a member of any writers' organisations? The UK's Society of Authors provides free advice on contracts to its members, and other similar societies do the same. It might be worth hunting one out and joining just to take advantage of their help.

oakbark · Nov 20, 2013

I'm also Swedish. Anything concerning money sucks in our country.
With that behind us there are a couple of things that may impact on your %

If you publish directly with one of our trades you would be getting between 20 - 25% of the first edition. Since you have already published, as other have mentioned that would not be on the table. Add to that book format - First edition hardcover is about 25% here, if you were discussing pocket then that would carry the lowest %.

re-publishing in numbers under 8000 toward the budget market allows a % to 60% of the first publishing %. In your case where you haven't published earlier editions here I'm sure they have a scale. Suppose a paperback (pocketbook) would normally have offered 14% .. 60% of that is 8.4%

now you are close

it is also highly probable that they would have deducted social cost fees and tax. Unless you have a private tax permit in Sweden (F-skatt) or have been able to prove tax exemption this would probably cut out more than a third of the pay

as such 6% sounds right, but that would be 6% straight in your pocket

yes you only get paid once a year here unless you are a top writer with leverage

Getting anything close to $2000 upfront in Sweden is huge.

I would take it without another thought

nancyadams · Nov 20, 2013

Old Hack said:
It's not a high royalty.

Are you a member of any writers' organisations? The UK's Society of Authors provides free advice on contracts to its members, and other similar societies do the same. It might be worth hunting one out and joining just to take advantage of their help.

Well guess what. I told this publisher what I wanted, and was countered at 8%, stating that the highest they normally go is 7%, and that I clearly don't know the market. So I'm going to accept 8% with only a half smile. It's a good learning experience.

FOREIGN PUBLISHER: why are royalties so SMALL??

nancyadams

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

nancyadams

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

nancyadams

nancyadams

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

mccardey

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

nancyadams

nancyadams

nancyadams

nancyadams

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

nancyadams

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

oakbark

nancyadams