World Building...no fresh ideas

My advice would be: stop world-building for a bit and try story-telling.

I am always somewhat wary of world-building when it's undertaken as a kind of preliminary activity to writing a story; creating maps and histories and societies and even languages. At worst it's not just displacement activity; it actually constrains your imagination, because now you're trying to find stories to fit in a world, rather than building a world around a story.

Tolkien, famously, appears to have built the world first - building upwards from pastiches of myth cycles and languages. But it's worth remembering that Tolkien wrote very odd books in a very odd way. I wouldn't expect it to be a method that would be easy to emulate.

I think often the really striking bits of world-building will sneak up on you in the middle of a paragraph of storytelling. Your characters are in the middle of some long journey, and need somewhere to rest. Where would be an interesting place to rest in the context of the story - do you need a quiet spot, or a lively spot, in terms of the rhythm of the telling? Should it advance plot, or character, or both, and how? It strikes me that the wrong way to do that is to consult the map you drew up in advance and calculate where they would have got to. Let the world follow the story, not the other way round.

Torgo said:

My advice would be: stop world-building for a bit and try story-telling.

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Yes. This is what I thought when I read the OP.

While it's good to have an idea of the type of world you are going to be writing about, I think it becomes pointless as you delve further into it, unless you have some idea of story, and story comes from your character and premise, not from a world that you are building and trying to create something different about it -- tells me that you're ready to start populating your world.

SevasTra82 said:

I can't seem to think of any unique characteristic for my world that would make it stand out. Its the biggest hurdle I have right now in completed my world.

Anyone else ever have this issue?

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I love worldbuilding, and no, never had this issue. I always seem to have more worlds than I have time to tell stories about.

Some things I do, which may or may not work for you:

1. Fantasy art books. The weirder the better. Rather than reading the text (if any), I just look at the pictures and imagine what kind of place might have those particular geographical features or animals.

2. Read books that are heavy on worldbuilding. Jack Vance is my favorite. Each time I pick up a Planet of Adventure novel there seems to be some new detail that sets my own imagination working.

3. Read articles on worldbuilding/look at maps. Some time ago I read Holly Lisle's story of how she came up with Matrin's unique feature - the rings of mountains. I think she just drew a map, got a compass and made circles, then thought of what those circles might be and why they were there.

Hope that helps!

Maybe don't sweat the structure so much?

Sure, people remember the world. But they buy the story. The world is just a support tool for the story.

Once you've created enough world to support a consistent story, you're ready.

Torgo said:

I think often the really striking bits of world-building will sneak up on you in the middle of a paragraph of storytelling. Your characters are in the middle of some long journey, and need somewhere to rest. Where would be an interesting place to rest in the context of the story - do you need a quiet spot, or a lively spot, in terms of the rhythm of the telling? Should it advance plot, or character, or both, and how? It strikes me that the wrong way to do that is to consult the map you drew up in advance and calculate where they would have got to. Let the world follow the story, not the other way round.

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This, this, this. I build a world, its cultures, and I draw a map of my cities so I don't forget where everything is. But...do you know Age of Empires? IIRC, in the old versions I used to play, there was a setting where you could see the shape of the map, but no details. You had to go out and explore if you wanted them. That's how I approach it. Yeah, I tend to know a lot about my worlds (compulsive outliner). But my world is shaped by my plot, my characters, and how they see things. And I feel that is what ultimately makes your world stand out.

Yeah. I think you're possibly worrying about the wrong thing. A unique world is all well and good, but what's really important is good story-telling and real people inhabiting it.

Think about all the wonderful, magical stories told in the very world we inhabit? Nothing fresh and original about boring old earth, hey? But people still told amazing stories set here and those sold.

People don't buy books for the worldbuilding. It's a nice decorative detail on the icing, but the story is the cake.

And if it's still really concerning you, some of my most unique 'world-building' moments have come from writing the story, because in doing so I discover something new and wonderful about my world.

In the world of advertising (which is my day job), I often used 180º thinking. In other words, I try to come up with the worst idea to sell a product, to say the opposite of what I'd ideally want to say. This gets me out of the corral where I've been concepting and into whole new worlds of possibilities.

So try coming up with some bad ideas for your world. I don't mean lame or clichéd or common. I mean BAD. Planets are hollow boxes. The air is tapioca pudding. Fire is an edible treat, perfect for snacks when the young warriors come home from a long day of sitting on toilets, pooping out baby stars.

BrentPope said:

In the world of advertising (which is my day job), I often used 180º thinking. In other words, I try to come up with the worst idea to sell a product, to say the opposite of what I'd ideally want to say. This gets me out of the corral where I've been concepting and into whole new worlds of possibilities.

So try coming up with some bad ideas for your world. I don't mean lame or clichéd or common. I mean BAD. Planets are hollow boxes. The air is tapioca pudding. Fire is an edible treat, perfect for snacks when the young warriors come home from a long day of sitting on toilets, pooping out baby stars.

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Ha! Like it.

What Torgo (and others) said...

I am crap at worldbuilding. My current WIP is the first time I've had an entirely second-world fantasy and had to make stuff up from scratch. I had no idea what any of it looked like when I started, but I had a basic idea of the story. So I started telling the story. As my characters interacted with the environment, I needed to answer questions about it (Level of tech? Medical knowledge? Light sources? Philosophy? Beasts of burden? Carnivorous forest creatures? Do people wear pants? Do the slaves? What kind of musical instruments?). I needed to address certain aspects of culture and government in order to flesh out the plot (religious? social classes? monarchy? democracy? neither?). In other words, I was forced to build a world piece by piece in order to tell the story.

So...I started with a blank slate, but now, about 75k into the first draft, I have an idea of what the world looks like and how it functions, because I HAD to. Some of the stuff is just placeholder material ("he sliced his head off with [A SHARP OBJECT THAT IS LESS BORING THAN A SWORD]," for example); some of it is stuff I intend to keep. Most if it is just whatever popped into my head at the time. Some of it needs to be fleshed out more, and I intend to add more detail in the second draft, when I'm not constantly trying to work out the story. I can't say it's going to end up being totally unique, but it interests me so far...

SevasTra82 said:

So I've been trying to build my world for quite some time now, but I feel like my world needs some sort of "oomph"...something to make it stand out from the rest. Something to make it unique and original.

For example, look at GRRM'S A Song of Ice and Fire....Westeros has a random weather pattern that makes his world unique. Or Brandon Sandersons "Way of Kings" uses massive sandstorms. That is what I'm missing in my world. Something that makes the landscape stand out.

Every idea I come up with seems to be overdone. I've seen countless books that use the weather. I've seen plenty of example of book that use the whole "it's always dark/light"....

I can't seem to think of any unique characteristic for my world that would make it stand out. Its the biggest hurdle I have right now in completed my world.

Anyone else ever have this issue?

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Characters are the characteristic.

Although I occasionally write myself into a corner with it, I do almost no initial world-building at all - I start with the characters and their interactions and go from there.

Also, I've twice tried to write a 'vampire' novel and ended up with stories with no vampires at all and then tried to write a zombie novel and ended up with a sci-fi suspense. That's the risk you take, I suppose but at the end of the say there's nothing new world-wise (in terms of geography, technology, weather, etc.) but each individual person is unique in some way, as is each civilization.

I haven't read those books, but is it really the weather that makes it unique, or the way people have adapted to it?

I personally always start with the basics - think about the dynamics of your world. How large is it? How many people are in it? Is it considered a safe or hostile environment? Then start by expanding on whatever basics you thought of, connecting them together. Let's say you have a large amount of people on a small amount of land and its considered hostile - that puts strain on the environment, the people, the buildings. There could be too many crops for too little water, creating landscapes full of wilting food and dried lakes and ponds. Maybe they cut down too many trees and didn't replant enough - what are there houses built out of if there isn't enough woods? Smaller, made of stone - but that takes a lot of stone from the countryside. Abandoned mines, fields of tree stumps and weak saplings - you've got a descriptive, memorable landscape right there, and you can build on it easily - how are the people? Starved, angry? Are the rich doing well? How's the government handling it - how are your characters handling it.

If you just pick traits and put them wherever, your world will become flat - maybe your readers won't know all the background details, but they'll certainly be aware of the realism you've put in it.

Torgo said:

My advice would be: stop world-building for a bit and try story-telling.

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This, perfectly expressed. Reiterated for emphasis.

caw

just start with a general idea, as you write the story more and more will come to you and you will start to fill in the gap without having to try. That's how I do it anyway.

I don't do dedicated worldbuilding at all; nonetheless I've got a complex universe with a long history. How? Every time my characters do something that doesn't make sense to me (but obviously does to them!) I have to work out WHY, and why it's coherent within their world. These explanations are the worldbuilding.

Another vote for storytelling first - and this is from someone who has been worldbuilding in the same universe for thirty years. I still don't know everything in that universe; it constantly startles me, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Even so, I am starting an unrelated project. It's a standalone sf romance, set in a world that has a major meteor shower every hundred years. It's going to be fun building this new world.

Filigree said:

Another vote for storytelling first - and this is from someone who has been worldbuilding in the same universe for thirty years. I still don't know everything in that universe; it constantly startles me, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

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Yep... mine goes back to about 1993, and, well... a beta's complaints just this week led to a consolidation of How This Part Of Our History Works. I had the gist before but had never put it into words. This is why I love readers' complaints.

Read vintage speculative fiction from 1900 to 1970. Everything has been covered in one way or another, and forgotten, many times over.
Martin is not the first to use the generational weather changes. Even Aldiss, who did it with Helliconia twenty years before, was not the first.
Find the super awesome bit invented by some long-dead dude that fits your story, revive it, embellish it, conquer the world.

World-building is the job of the explorer whom never stops and takes too much interest in any one place or person but keeps moving to see what is just beyond the cavern filled with emetalds. Just barely brush the surface, and don't stop moving. Take note of a small detail on particular subject and move on. Trying to develop any one idea too much with multiple details polarizes you to that subject in which the story becomes about.

Stick a few more moons up in the sky and get on with your story. A compelling narrative will often trump a compelling world (ideally, one will feed from the other anyhow i.e. a compelling story creates a compelling world to go along with it).

Pick up a history book and read about a region or country you've never thought of. Learn about its geography, politics, and culture and build a world around them.

I've mined tons of idea from Cold War-era Latin America, let me tell you.

What gives a novel's world ooomph and makes it stand out is the individuals that populate it and how they react to each other and to whatever is happening.

Without inhabitants/characters, all you are worrying about is a text book.

SevasTra82 said:

So I've been trying to build my world for quite some time now, but I feel like my world needs some sort of "oomph"...something to make it stand out from the rest. Something to make it unique and original.

For example, look at GRRM'S A Song of Ice and Fire....Westeros has a random weather pattern that makes his world unique. Or Brandon Sandersons "Way of Kings" uses massive sandstorms. That is what I'm missing in my world. Something that makes the landscape stand out.

Every idea I come up with seems to be overdone. I've seen countless books that use the weather. I've seen plenty of example of book that use the whole "it's always dark/light"....

I can't seem to think of any unique characteristic for my world that would make it stand out. Its the biggest hurdle I have right now in completed my world.

Anyone else ever have this issue?

Click to expand...

Well, you've gotten a lot of people advising you to take a "story first" approach. And that may very well work better for you. But I find that a "world first" approach can work.

You may be trying too hard to give your world some single distinctive feature. Worlds like that can all too easily come across as gimmicky. ("The sun never sets! Isn't that neat?") To me, what makes a world interesting is the combination and interplay of details. No single detail has to be absolutely original.

Personally, I always like to give my worlds unusual physical features and then ask how human society would adapt to those features. Of course, different societies in the same world might adapt in different ways, and that in turn might cause conflict between them. So maybe it will help if you think along those lines.

Kevin Nelson said:

Well, you've gotten a lot of people advising you to take a "story first" approach. And that may very well work better for you. But I find that a "world first" approach can work.

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I came up with the world of Eden long before I started writing stories set in it. I always need an idea of the setting before I start thinking about the people who live there - otherwise, for me, the people are living in a big white space.

Plus, I find that the worldbuilding shapes my initial ideas of the characters - if I know that a land bordering the sea is fighting pirates in an archipelago nearby, I can tell the characters will be seafarers, perhaps the captain of a warship. From there, the characterization part takes over.