Does anyone else suck at critiquing others' work?

It's probably not you, Christy - it's probably just that you and the book aren't a good fit. In which case I think consensus is that it's perfectly fine to send a quick note saying you just don't think you're the person for that book.

Different if you hated it. If you hate it, you'll usually be able to identify why, and phrased nicely, that can be very helpful.

Everyone critiques differently; just because you give more generalized comments doesn't mean your criticism is worse than others. I tend to be the same way I think ... When people ask me for feedback I usually don't get too nitpicky, especially with longer books. But when I'm on the receiving end sometimes I prefer more general comments; getting back a book with comments all over it is a bit overwhelming, but knowing upfront just what works and what doesn't is very helpful in my opinion.

I agree with mccardey that sometimes you and the book aren't a good fit. It can be frustrating to be in a critique group and having to critique pieces that aren't your taste, but that's the way it goes.

I also find that if the book or piece is mediocre, I don't have much to say about it. If it doesn't grab me or bore me, and instead just sits there, I'll be all "meh" about it. Not that its bad, it is just not good either, and it falls in between. It just has little or no effect on me.

Christyp said:

This sounds strange but I love to go through the SYW board and see people's edits. I don't know why, but those red and blue marks just tickle me. Hell, I don't even mind when the red marks are on mine; just means someone REALLY knows their stuff!

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Christy, a lot of it is simple experience. My first run through QLH, I got my ass handed to me.

And then some.

It was fucking brutal.

But I picked myself up and decided to learn to crit. My crits now look NOTHING like those from two months post-assripping. You learn as you go. And....I am still lop-sided. I think I do well at issues of voice and mock rewrites and picking out stuff like echoes......but I am deeply uncomfortable (*said in his most manly, assured voice) with suggesting broad-stroke changes, like "add a scene where she kills a baby" or "drop in a romance scene here."

You wanna learn, it takes time. And it never stops. But as long as you work at it, it happens.

Christy,

I'd like to recommend a book we read for a writing class I took. The book is called 'Writing Without Teachers' by Peter Elbow. Chapter 4 is about giving (and receiving) feedback. I found it very enlightening and helpful.

I can't critique either. I don't really think I know anything about writing. I learn a lot reading SYW but I don't use it myself, because I don't think it's fair to ask other people to critique my work when I don't know how to return the favour.

My gran thinks everything I write is brilliant and I'm sure she wouldn't lie.

Sometimes it depends on the book. If it's really good, I can have a hard time remembering to slice its guts out...

A lot of it is just practice. Prodding your own reactions over and over and forcing yourself to express them in detail and looking for the sources of those reactions. I've spent the last...two years now?...critting short pieces, evaluating manuscripts, beta-ing, getting critiques myself, etc., to the point where I'm now almost always reading but very rarely am I reading published books* (i.e., solely for pleasure, although some of the books I've critted were really good). And while there's still a severe difference in what I notice in others' work and what I notice in mine (hint: I'm blind to my own shit), and while I'm still not the bestest evars, there is a very marked change in what things I can pick up on from when I first started. It's a process that happens over time.

Getting critiques can also really help, as people will point out stuff that I may never have considered paying attention to, and then I learn to look out for that in my own work...and it translates to others' stuff.

*Note: I am totally not saying this is a good thing. It is bad. I am a bad lit-dweeb. I don't even know if I can call myself that anymore...

Critiquing isn't a Big Sekrit Skill that some people have and some don't.

All you have to do is say what you liked about the work, and then point out the bits that you didn't like so much.

So long as you do so without being unkind or rude, you're good.

If you still find it difficult, imagine you're in a bookshop. You pick up a book: why do you carry on reading it? why do you put it down when you do?

Like others have said, practice, practice, practice is the way to go. I still cringe when I think about the first few crits I gave on QLH. Even now there are times where I see crits from smart peeples like Buz and I dwindle into a puddle of self-doubt and go, "Buhbuhbuh, why didn't I think of that I should jump off a cliff right noawwww."

Then I see quicklime's crits and I remember that no matter how crappy my crits are, there's always quick's...

*ducks*

I agree with Old Hack - critiques are not rocket science. Some of the most helpful comments I've gotten were from people who "didn't know how" - they were just honest.

Old Hack said:

So long as you do so without being unkind or rude, you're good.

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I've done a lot of blue pencil cafe sessions at writers conferences, where you get fifteen minutes to read a few pages then offer what help you can. I early on adopted the (possibly apocryphal) rule from the Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm.

Putputt said:

Like others have said, practice, practice, practice is the way to go.

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Yeap! I really had to practice to become a decent critiquer -- at the start I wasn't any good at highlighting the positive (learning the "sandwich method" helped a lot) and I brought too much of my opinion to the stage. I'm still not the best at concrit, but I'm miles better than I was.

Christyp said:

So what do you do when you agree to crit someone's work and you can't stand their voice? I've learned to agree to just take one chapter and see if I like where the story goes, but I have a friend (a writer who I became friends with on FB) who is a great writer, I'm just not into her kind of stories. I always feel bad when she asks me for an opinion because while the writing is good, how do I tell her I just don't like her style of books?

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Just say you don't think it's a good fit. She should be able to understand--no one likes everything.

Did any of that make sense? Seems like when I get on here lately is after I've spent all day working my booty off so I'm exhausted by the time you get me!

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Haaaaa...I'm often really stupid from sleep deprivation when pooting around the forums...wheeeeee

Buz got in there before me, and is on the button.

Tell your friend that you don't mesh with the sort of writing she does, and that makes you the wrong person to critique it. Easy!

Old Hack said:

Critiquing isn't a Big Sekrit Skill that some people have and some don't.

All you have to do is say what you liked about the work, and then point out the bits that you didn't like so much.

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I would not consider that a critique I would consider that just beta reading.

Christyp said:

So what do you do when you agree to crit someone's work and you can't stand their voice?

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Please don't tell them you don't like their work. I think you should just tell them that you simply don't have room in your life to critique anyone's work.

Matthew Hughes said:

I've done a lot of blue pencil cafe sessions at writers conferences, where you get fifteen minutes to read a few pages then offer what help you can. I early on adopted the (possibly apocryphal) rule from the Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm.

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Yes exactly.

My typical participation in SYW goes like this:

Post 1: Member XZY posts excerpt.
Post 2: ABC provides crit.
Post 3: DEF provides crit.
Post 4: Chris P provides crit.
Post 5: ABC: "@Chris P: You see, that part worked for me."
Post 6: DEF: "@Chris P: Yeah, what ABC said. I'm not sure why you thought that needed to be changed."
Post 7: GHI: "@Chris P: What writing planet are you from? Would you even know good writing if it danced on your nose?"


Humor aside, in all things be honest. I try not to provide my input as "this is how it is," but "what I thought when I read it." I ask myself what advice, and how delivered, is going to be of the most use to the writer. I don't think I do him or her any favors when I ignore stuff that really doesn't work for me, nor when I deliver my opinions with a sledgehammer.

gingerwoman said:

I would not consider that a critique I would consider that just beta reading.

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"Just" beta reading sounds a bit dismissive of beta-readers, don't you think?

The part I missed out of my post was that you could also say why things did or didn't work for you: I assumed it was obvious that you'd include such reasoning. Would that make it more of a critique in your view, Ginger?

gingerwoman said:

Please don't tell them you don't like their work. I think you should just tell them that you simply don't have room in your life to critique anyone's work.

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But then they hear you are working with another writer, and before you know it they're offended and upset.

Better, perhaps, to be open about it and say it's not a genre you read so you don't feel able to offer your opinion (if that's true, of course), or to tell them their style isn't to your taste. Be honest. Don't wriggle out of it with excuses.

That's a good thing.

Assiduous critiquing is an ability better reserved for editors anyway, not a writer.