• Read this stickie before posting.

    • In order to reduce the number of new members requesting a Beta reader before they're really ready for one, we've instituted a 50 post requirement before you can start a thread seeking a Beta reader.
    • You can still volunteer to Beta for someone else; just please don't request someone to Beta for you until you're more familiar with the community and our members.

Seeking Beta for Urban Fantasy

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evee123zy

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Genre: Urban fantasy (novel)

Feedback: Be honest about the book's flaws, but try to be nice about it. No need to look for one specific thing-- just point to whatever aspects bother you.

Credentials: Must be able to utilize Amazon Kindle (kindle/phone app/amazon kindle cloud.)

Please PM me if interested.

Details: I will be loaning the book to you via Amazon. If I haven't already found someone, I will ask you for your amazon e-mail account to loan you the book.

You will have 7 days to accept the book loan, otherwise it will be returned. You will have 14 days to read it. You do not have to read the whole book. Read as far as you feel comfortable reading.

Your critique will not be publicized in any fashion. I am simply looking for a second opinion about a book, at the author's request. I will be forwarding your critique to her, so please be gentle!
 

EMaree

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Your critique will not be publicized in any fashion. I am simply looking for a second opinion about a book, at the author's request. I will be forwarding your critique to her, so please be gentle!

Hi Evee123zy, welcome to AbsoluteWrite. I don't think this forum permits you to request critiques of another person's work even if you have their permission. The author would need to create her own account here to ask for betas.

I've flagged this to the room mods to double-check this.
 
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gingerwoman

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I'm afraid I'm pretty sure that there is also a rule here that you aren't allowed to ask for betas or critiques until you've made 50 thoughtful posts in other areas of the board. And if someone wants a free beta reader they have to give back by reading the other person's book and helping them.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I'm afraid I'm pretty sure that there is also a rule here that you aren't allowed to ask for betas or critiques until you've made 50 thoughtful posts in other areas of the board. And if someone wants a free beta reader they have to give back by reading the other person's book and helping them.

I didn't think there was a rule against asking for betas when you're under 50 posts like there is in SYW, but maybe I'm confused? But either way I think it's highly unlikely you'll land any betas if your one and only post is a request like this.

As an aside, asking for free feedback and then taking the digital file back after 14 days? Is the fear that people will rip the author off by agreeing to beta and then not buy the e-book later on, because they have the manuscript already? That's making a lot of assumptions, not the least of which that the beta will be so enthralled with the book that they want to keep it and yet so cheap and shallow as to not support an author they enjoyed.
 
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Violeta

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[...]a rule here that you aren't allowed to ask for betas[...] until you've made 50 thoughtful posts in other areas of the board.
Yes, you are. Lots of people do. Another thing is that you get them. The rule, I believe, only applies for critiques in the forum boards. :)

And if someone wants a free beta reader they have to give back by reading the other person's book and helping them.
Not really. But again, if you want to find betas, it's easier this way; by offering to swap MS and help each other out. But you don't need to offer anything but a thank you if you don't want to.

I've beta-read for people who never beta-read mine in return. I didn't have anything to swap at the time, so we didn't swap. But it's true that most of the time, almost all of them had the kindness to at least offer the swap. :tongue Voluntarily. Not because it was mandatory in order to get a beta.
 
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evee123zy

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Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. Sorry for coming off as needy.

I am personally doing a favor for this author; I have already given her a beta reading. However, she wanted a second opinion and I felt that was fair.

As for "taking the book back," well now you just make me sound like a jerk =) Amazon's loan feature will automatically take the book back in 14 days. Unfortunately, I have no control over that. It has nothing to do with mistrust. ^^;

I would love to have made 50 thoughtful posts had I found this forum anytime before my needy request. Again, so sorry to ruffle feathers.

Because I would really like to see this writer grow, I will offer a beta reading to someone who will be a beta for her (if that is, in fact, OK to ask for.)

I did not extend the offer originally because I have quite a few writerly things to finish before NaNoWriMo, including editing my work and finishing other beta readings that I do for free, without getting one in return =)

With that said, without knowing any of you, or how many posts you've made on this lovely forum, feel free to ask me for a beta reading. I don't ask for anything in return, I'm simply here to help. You can contact me here:

http://fetchingfigment.wordpress.com/about-the-author/beta-reading/

Note: I will try to get to as many of your beta requests as I possibly can, but there may be a lull come November. That does not mean I will not beta your work. I just may send you a status-update email asking for more time.
 
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Kayley

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Hi Yvone,

It's nice of you to offer to beta for people - I'm with the group that thinks it's not necessary to swap when seeking beta readers, but is a nice thing to do. However, in regards to the purpose of this thread, I'm wondering: Why can't the author come here herself and request beta readers? I'm not sure if it's actually a rule, but it is a bit unusual for someone to request beta reads on behalf of another person. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable offering a beta read if they were interacting with the author directly.

Also, I'm a bit confused about the book being lent via Amazon - has it already been published? Typically, beta reading is done before the book has been published. The feedback is used to ensure that the book is the best shape possible before it's actually published. If your friend's book is not actually in that condition, they might want to wait before they make it available on Amazon.

I believe you're being genuine in your request, but I think people will be skeptical about offering their feedback based on these issues.
 

evee123zy

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Hi Yvone,

It's nice of you to offer to beta for people - I'm with the group that thinks it's not necessary to swap when seeking beta readers, but is a nice thing to do. However, in regards to the purpose of this thread, I'm wondering: Why can't the author come here herself and request beta readers? I'm not sure if it's actually a rule, but it is a bit unusual for someone to request beta reads on behalf of another person. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable offering a beta read if they were interacting with the author directly.

Also, I'm a bit confused about the book being lent via Amazon - has it already been published? Typically, beta reading is done before the book has been published. The feedback is used to ensure that the book is the best shape possible before it's actually published. If your friend's book is not actually in that condition, they might want to wait before they make it available on Amazon.

I believe you're being genuine in your request, but I think people will be skeptical about offering their feedback based on these issues.

Thank you. As someone who voluntarily beta reads for others, I find it a bit stunning that some betas have a very shark-like approach. I beta read because I like to read, not because I want something. If that is the modus here, I will adhere to that.

The situation:

Unfortunately, there are too many writers that will write a book, maybe self-edit it, and then self-publish it. I have encountered one of these writers, and I would like to help her because I'm just a helpful person. I don't know, maybe years of working customer service has ruined me.

I originally intended to write a review for her, but after reading about 7 chapters, it occurred to me that she was of the write-to-self-publish breed. In any case, I told her my issues with the book, but (to keep things vague) she implied that she would like a second opinion. I told her I would see if I could find another beta reader to take a look at it; I am apparently the only person she does not know *personally* to have read this book.

Why can't she come here and request herself?

1) I told her I would take care of it for her
2) I am a woman of my word.

Had I realized this would be so difficult, I would not have made that promise, but I try to stay true to my word.

Can I connect anyone, genuinely interested in helping, to the author?

Absolutely. If that is the issue, I will work to patch you through to her. However, the author implied that sending *me* the book for review was a blow to her budget, so I figured it would be easier if I just loaned the book to the interested beta. I don't think it will take more than a few chapters (way less than the 14 days Amazon permits) to get a feel for what's going on with the book.

TL;DR - It's a hot mess-- I know. If you've ever looked back on the past and wished someone would have been kind enough to tell you the truth, you will understand this scenario.
 
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Wilde_at_heart

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...
I originally intended to write a review for her, but after reading about 7 chapters, it occurred to me that she was of the write-to-self-publish breed. In any case, I told her my issues with the book, but (to keep things vague) she implied that she would like a second opinion. I told her I would see if I could find another beta reader to take a look at it; I am apparently the only person she does not know *personally* to have read this book.

TL;DR - It's a hot mess-- I know. If you've ever looked back on the past and wished someone would have been kind enough to tell you the truth, you will understand this scenario.

Oh, dear... This might wind up as one of those 'I tried, but...' scenarios, but good luck. Posting a brief synopsis *might* help.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you spotted either a major flaw, plot hole or significant weakness overall that she thinks is fine 'as is'. Meanwhile, you're cringing at the idea of her hitting 'publish', sensing that nearly anyone who reads this will see the exact same problem(s) and that her expectations are way out of whack vs probable outcome. It's a lovely sentiment to want to help someone, but sometimes people need to fall flat on their own to learn anything and the best way to help - though painful - is to let them.
 

Violeta

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Posting a brief synopsis *might* help.
Yes, some basic info about the book would be nice in case anyone would like to take a look at it. ;)

It's a lovely sentiment to want to help someone, but sometimes people need to fall flat on their own to learn anything and the best way to help - though painful - is to let them.
I also agree with this. I'm not saying you should just let her do it, but sometimes, the hard way is the best way. Remember that we learn from our mistakes. Anyway, I admire you for wanting to help her, and, you know, if you post the blurb or something we might be able to help her too. Who knows.:Shrug:

P.S.
the author implied that sending *me* the book for review was a blow to her budget
This worries me. A little. :foilhat:
 
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evee123zy

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Oh, dear... This might wind up as one of those 'I tried, but...' scenarios, but good luck. Posting a brief synopsis *might* help.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you spotted either a major flaw, plot hole or significant weakness overall that she thinks is fine 'as is'. Meanwhile, you're cringing at the idea of her hitting 'publish', sensing that nearly anyone who reads this will see the exact same problem(s) and that her expectations are way out of whack vs probable outcome. It's a lovely sentiment to want to help someone, but sometimes people need to fall flat on their own to learn anything and the best way to help - though painful - is to let them.

Thanks for the tip. To keep her privacy intact, here is my take on the book's premise:

There are moments when we consider tempting fate, even when we're at our happiest. Remember that time you stood on a cliff, and you found yourself leaning toward the edge? Remember that brief moment you dared to wonder, even though you already know, what would happen if you just... jumped? There is something going on in the metaphysical world, things that are pulling and pushing us-- we just don't know about it.

OK, I realize it's not a thrilling synopsis, but I suck balls (excuse my french) at writing hooks, and again, I don't want to mention protagonists or conflicts at the risk of defaming her.

Point is, I think she has a story. I only read 7 chapters, but there is a firm, concrete plot; for me, the problem is the narrative.

All she has right now is my opinion, and I could be wrong-- Maybe the narrative *does* work. I think it's worth getting a second opinion, and if I didn't think she would consider it, I would not be doing this.

So to anyone who is willing to read just a few chapters and share their thoughts, I am still looking for you.

P.S. I see you guys looking at the beta reading form <_< So I hope my lack of e-mail is due to the fact that you are either 1) Not finished with your work and have bookmarked it for later, or 2) Sending your e-mail now =)
 

EMaree

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I'm afraid I'd be no use as a beta reader here (I suspect my usual beta reading wouldn't be gentle enough for this author) but I wanted to stop by again and say that what you're doing is really kind, evee123zy.

A lot of good advice can be given on the first chapter alone so I think the author would learn a lot by hanging around here for over 50 posts and then posting her first chapter at Share Your Work (p/w: vista). The Self-Publishing forum also has some really informative self-publishing diaries. But she'd really need to lurk SYW a bit first to get comfortable with the level of critique given there or else it might be too much for her.
 
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Violeta

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Do you think we would see the same problems you did just by looking at the
first chapter? Or would we need to see some other "things" on the following chapters?
 
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quicklime

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Thank you. As someone who voluntarily beta reads for others, I find it a bit stunning that some betas have a very shark-like approach. I beta read because I like to read, not because I want something. so....i think it might be a good idea, for you AND your author, if we start to back things up here. People beta for a great many reasons, most of them at least in part because they "like to read". That said, expecting the other person to reciprocate is hardly bad...for one thing, most of us here, you know, are here because we have stuff of our own. for another, it suggests the other person has a bit of skin in the game, instead of just wanting to strip-mine talent and run off with it. You'll get much farther if you can broaden your own possible views, suggesting anyone expecting more than nothing in return is "shark-like" is both myopic and insulting.
If that is the modus here, I will adhere to that.

The situation:

Unfortunately, there are too many writers that will write a book, maybe self-edit it, and then self-publish it. I have encountered one of these writers, and I would like to help her because I'm just a helpful person. I don't know, maybe years of working customer service has ruined me. I work customer service. Tech support, so maybe slightly different, but....I'm not sure any of that matters anyway. I agree, many self-pub as a shortcut. That said, if she has, that book is out there....what is the intent and end-game? To convince her to re-write the same book, better? I'm not sure of the wisdom or utility in that. After all, to what end? Why not spend the time on a follow-up? Is she gonna refund the folks who bought V1.0? Apologize to them?

I originally intended to write a review for her, but after reading about 7 chapters, it occurred to me that she was of the write-to-self-publish breed. In any case, I told her my issues with the book, but (to keep things vague) she implied that she would like a second opinion. this isn't uncommon...nobody likes to hear bad news, which it sounds like you dropped on her (unsolicited?). That said, I find it deeply troubling that she's "wanting" to fix something but not, you know, bad enough to ask around herself. Like the suspicious side of me is wondering if this even passes the smell test to begin with, but even the rest of me is thinking "how much help is she gonna really use if she can't come looking herself? And for a published book? And when one stranger from the net collected another stranger from the net to do it for her?"

I told her I would see if I could find another beta reader to take a look at it; I am apparently the only person she does not know *personally* to have read this book.

Why can't she come here and request herself?

1) I told her I would take care of it for her
2) I am a woman of my word.

Had I realized this would be so difficult, I would not have made that promise, but I try to stay true to my word. again, the little passive-aggressive lines like this may make you feel better about being in the right, but probably aren't doing you favors. You may not know it, but you came in here with a pretty unusual request....and people were generally pretty soft about trying to get more info. You sort of came back with a "No idea what YOUR problem is, but let me explain this so you'll stop being unreasonable" tone, and nobody here is asking anything all that outlandish. Maybe there's some miscommunication, but since you are a fellow writer, you might consider your words. We're a bit confused, not on a mission from God to thwart your beta attempt.

Can I connect anyone, genuinely interested in helping, to the author?

Absolutely. If that is the issue, I will work to patch you through to her. However, the author implied that sending *me* the book for review was a blow to her budget, this troubles me as well....her budget? Of what, $3.99? She's selling it on Amazon; even if she went entirely on the up-and-up and paid for a download for someone else to beta, this isn't much of a budget....that sounds more like "nooo, you will BUY MAH BOOK!" That's fine, she IS selling a book, but she may have to make a decision.....and as for devoting time to a beta read, this and the points above sort of suggest to me that both she and you are coming at this with a certain level of naivete. Naivete isn't a sin, but again, it IS part of why folks have questions....ALSO as betas, in addition to most folks expecting reciprocity, they like to have some idea of the return on investment.....which includes the story they're getting, the reciprocity, but also a general idea how hard they're likely to have to work/how wasted or well-received their efforts may be. "This'll blow my budget, beta for free, in a couple weeks, and no, i can't read yours" collectively raises enough questions that, honestly, people are asking them. That's all that's going on here. so I figured it would be easier if I just loaned the book to the interested beta. I don't think it will take more than a few chapters (way less than the 14 days Amazon permits) to get a feel for what's going on with the book.

TL;DR - It's a hot mess-- I know. If you've ever looked back on the past and wished someone would have been kind enough to tell you the truth, you will understand this scenario.

I totally understand the scenario....although I also understand you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink.

Did this person even want your review, or a beta here, in the first place? Do they now? If so, great, but when folks ask you questions, please take a breath and a moment to consider: your request sounds sketchy as shit. I'm more than willing to entertain the possibility it isn't, but THAT'S why folks are asking. They aren't trying to crush you, or the writer....they're just trying to get a better idea what's going on.

The more you can help with that, the more bites you're likely to get.

Good luck,
Quick
 

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+1 to everything quicklime said.

Also, OP, I'm not knocking your reasons for beta-ing, but for me personally -- I beta for people because I like the people, not because I like to read. I love to read, but beta-ing is a shit-ton of work. Even on excellent novels, I usually make hundreds and hundreds of comments (usually closer to a thousand for a 100K novel) and write out an essay's worth of reactions and suggestions.

I like doing that for people I like. But more than that, I want to make sure I'm doing it for someone who wants it. Who will appreciate it. My main issue with this scenario is that (1) it's not the author asking, and (2) it doesn't sound, from what you said, like the author is all that eager to get this critique.

The people I've beta'ed for have all been very appreciative of the work I put in and very graceful about taking any criticism. The thought of a beta experience in which this wasn't the case makes me wince. I've heard stories of people who have poured work into beta-ing only to never hear back, or to have the author throw a temper tantrum at the criticism. Putting in all that work for someone who doesn't actually want the help? No, thank you.

I think it's great that you want to help this author. But from the situation, I'm not convinced she truly wants another critique.
 

evee123zy

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Do you think we would see the same problems you did just by looking at the
first chapter? Or would we need to see some other "things" on the following chapters?

Yes, I think you would get a pretty good idea of what's going on from the first chapter.
 

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As for "taking the book back," well now you just make me sound like a jerk =) Amazon's loan feature will automatically take the book back in 14 days. Unfortunately, I have no control over that. It has nothing to do with mistrust. ^^;

Eek, I'm so sorry I made it sound like that. I've seen so many meltdowns of authors thinking betas and/or reviewers were out to nab a free copy of their books that I jumped to conclusions. It was wrong of me, and I sincerely apologize. (I didn't even realize Amazon had that built into their system.)
 

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+1 to everything quicklime said.
I think it's great that you want to help this author. But from the situation, I'm not convinced she truly wants another critique.

I'm not either. Even some people who do post here find out (the hard way) that they didn't really want a critique so much as a pat on their head, or told they're the next Hemingway or James Joyce.

If her work is that bad, she'll either be met with a handful of sales or the bad reviews will tell her then what she should have clued into before - if she did need cluing in.

I had a friend making a student film once and when she was still drafting the script, another friend and I both warned her over a couple of lines of dialogue that didn't sound at all right. Convinced she was right and we were wrong, she went ahead with it as is.
I can't tell you how much film (actual film, not digital) got wasted because the actress couldn't say the lines properly after repeated takes - they were that awkward. She learned...
 

evee123zy

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I totally understand the scenario....although I also understand you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink.

Did this person even want your review, or a beta here, in the first place? Do they now? If so, great, but when folks ask you questions, please take a breath and a moment to consider: your request sounds sketchy as shit. I'm more than willing to entertain the possibility it isn't, but THAT'S why folks are asking. They aren't trying to crush you, or the writer....they're just trying to get a better idea what's going on.

The more you can help with that, the more bites you're likely to get.

Good luck,
Quick

I don't believe in doing things for other people, expecting something in return. Would it be nice if they did something for you? Of course. Does that always happen? No. I don't think reciprocation should be a *requirement* for lending a hand. What happened to paying it forward? And isn't that what got Viserys into trouble with the Dothraki? (lol Not a threat to pour gold on anyone's head, just making a point here.)

Furthermore, I have already extended the offer to beta read for *anyone* on this forum (to the point of harassing you all into accepting my offer--) not just to whoever decides to help with this issue. So I think it's pretty clear that no one is here to just "strip mine" talent and run off with it...

Back to the Original Purpose of this Thread:
If anyone would like to do the "beta," let me know.

In the meantime, I have directed the author to this forum and she will be setting things up to request a read for herself.

Thanks to everyone for your tips and suggestions.

On another note, I did find your comment overall enjoyable. It's always interesting to see how writers interpret things; we spend a huge chunk of our time reading between lines and coming up with a story to fill in the blanks. I don't know why I didn't expect that to occur here, but it's funny nonetheless. It's like picking out shapes in clouds. Sorry to have given a cloud to begin with =)

In the meantime, if anyone still needs a beta reading, the offer still stands. Whenever I can get a chance to get *off* this post, and deeper into the forum, I can post the offer in a more visible area.
 

evee123zy

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Eek, I'm so sorry I made it sound like that. I've seen so many meltdowns of authors thinking betas and/or reviewers were out to nab a free copy of their books that I jumped to conclusions. It was wrong of me, and I sincerely apologize. (I didn't even realize Amazon had that built into their system.)

Honey, I didn't know it existed either. I was like "oh hay... well, let's give it a shot." I am shy to pry into the financial situation of others, so I may not understand what she meant at all; in any case, I figured I would try to alleviate what I understood as the problem by using that loan function.

Honestly, though, I agree with you. I do think you are entitled to getting a copy of the book if you are going to beta or review it, so I am NOT mad at you by any means! No need to apologize, we're all writers here ;)

However, she might have a copy to give out for another beta. I don't know-- I don't handle her money, I'm just her beta. You know what they say though... Those who don't ask, don't receive. Give it a shot when she gets here!
 
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Putputt

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Why can't she come here and request herself?

1) I told her I would take care of it for her
2) I am a woman of my word.

Had I realized this would be so difficult, I would not have made that promise, but I try to stay true to my word.

It sounds to me like you made a promise and then later found out how tricky it is to find not just a good beta, but a beta who is a good fit for the author.

I think you're being really nice by trying to help this writer, but here's why I don't think this will work: Like slhuang, I now beta only for people I know and like. I have had bad experiences in the past and betaing takes so much time and effort that I just don't see the point in doing it for complete strangers when I can spend my time betaing for people I respect and like. I'm pretty sure many experienced betas feel the same way.

With this in mind, if I were in your shoes, I would contact the writer and tell her something along the lines of: "I apologize because originally I had thought that finding a good beta would be pretty straightforward, but I've learnt a lot in the past few days and I've realized it's vital for you to do this yourself so that you get a beta who's a good fit for YOU, not for me. Here's a great website that I found really helpful. There's a forum specifically for beta readers, as well as dozens of forums on writing and (whatever genre her book is). I truly believe your book. I hope you find this helpful!"

And that's it. It's not your job to persuade anyone to edit their book.

ETA: Whoops, did not see that you've sent the writer to AW. Nvm!

As for this:
I don't believe in doing things for other people, expecting something in return. Would it be nice if they did something for you? Of course. Does that always happen? No. I don't think reciprocation should be a *requirement* for lending a hand. What happened to paying it forward? And isn't that what got Viserys into trouble with the Dothraki? (lol Not a threat to pour gold on anyone's head, just making a point here.)

1. When you have spent hours betaing for people you don't know that well and then been replied with, "You read it wrong" or silence for weeks, followed by, "Cool, I will send you the second chapter once it's written." (Not even a thanks. Yea, don't bother sending it, asshole.) it's less easy to be all, "Yay, I am lending a hand out of the goodness of my heart and not expecting anything in return!" But, like quicklime, I am a bitter, empty husk of a person. :D

2. If I remember right, what got Viserys into trouble was him being a total dickwad to his sister, no?
 
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evee123zy

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I'm not either. Even some people who do post here find out (the hard way) that they didn't really want a critique so much as a pat on their head, or told they're the next Hemingway or James Joyce.

If her work is that bad, she'll either be met with a handful of sales or the bad reviews will tell her then what she should have clued into before - if she did need cluing in.

I had a friend making a student film once and when she was still drafting the script, another friend and I both warned her over a couple of lines of dialogue that didn't sound at all right. Convinced she was right and we were wrong, she went ahead with it as is.
I can't tell you how much film (actual film, not digital) got wasted because the actress couldn't say the lines properly after repeated takes - they were that awkward. She learned...

lol I don't think it's *that* bad. I just think I have some opinions about how things should be written, but at the end of the day, they are just my opinion.

As for your experience in the situation, I do get it. I've been there before as well (and trust me, I am quick to drop a thick skull on their head.) I don't think this is the case here, and I do hope she's able to get the help she's seeking.

And don't worry-- she's got thick skin. The force is strong with this one...
 

evee123zy

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It sounds to me like you made a promise and then later found out how tricky it is to find not just a good beta, but a beta who is a good fit for the author.

I think you're being really nice by trying to help this writer, but here's why I don't think this will work: Like slhuang, I now beta only for people I know and like. I have had bad experiences in the past and betaing takes so much time and effort that I just don't see the point in doing it for complete strangers when I can spend my time betaing for people I respect and like. I'm pretty sure many experienced betas feel the same way.

With this in mind, if I were in your shoes, I would contact the writer and tell her something along the lines of: "I apologize because originally I had thought that finding a good beta would be pretty straightforward, but I've learnt a lot in the past few days and I've realized it's vital for you to do this yourself so that you get a beta who's a good fit for YOU, not for me. Here's a great website that I found really helpful. There's a forum specifically for beta readers, as well as dozens of forums on writing and (whatever genre her book is). I truly believe your book. I hope you find this helpful!"

And that's it. It's not your job to persuade anyone to edit their book.

I realize there are a lot of posts to read, but I would like to just point out my previous post explaining that I have already directed the author to personally come to this forum for her second opinion.

It's been handled, thanks.
 
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