For the Self-Publishing Is Dark and Full of Terrors

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LOTLOF

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[FONT=&quot]Finally decided to go ahead and post one of these. Back when I was just lurking I spent a lot of time in the Self-Publishing and POD forum. Reading about the experiences of others gave me a lot of information about self-publishing and helped me make my own decision to go that route. While my path has been, shall we say, unique? It might provide others with some insights. Or at the very least a few laughs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am a fan of science fiction and fantasy. With my greatest love being reserved for epic fantasy. My favorite authors include Tolkien, George R R Martin, Colleen McCullough, Harry Turtledove, Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson, Tracy Hickman, Margaret Weis, Robert Asprin, Douglas Adams, and Stephen King. I am a discovery writer who thrives on chaos and takes great pride in surprising my readers. I believe in characterization above plot, have a terribly sarcastic sense of humor, and have been known to kill characters just for snoring.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have been writing since High School. I won’t tell you when that was, but I will tell you Bon Jovi’s ‘Never Say Goodbye’ was the graduation song. For a very long time I wrote my stories into notebooks that almost no one was ever allowed to read. I would submit short stories to various magazines, only to see them all rejected. Writing was my passion and being published and seeing my novel on a bookstore shelf was my dream. And while I spent years writing I don’t think I improved all that much. I wanted to be a published author and have millions of people read my books, but at the same time I was afraid to let anyone read my work who might actually criticize it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yeah, I know, makes a lot of sense. What can I say? My writing was, and is, incredibly personal to me. I treasured my dream of being an author and didn’t want to have someone come along and pour reality onto it. I hoped I had talent and thought my stories were pretty good. But as anyone who has ever watched American Idol knows people are capable of a hell of a lot of self-delusion.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What changed was my discovery of fanfiction. I suddenly had a forum where I could write and get feedback, while remaining comfortably anonymous. I was also encouraged by the poor quality of many of the stories there. Seeing the bar set so low I figured I could at least do better than that.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While my experiences on fanfiction.net were not all pleasant, I give writing fanfiction credit for helping me improve and teaching me many valuable lessons.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I’ll go into that and more in my next post.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 

EMaree

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Your title caught my attention! Nice reference, and interesting post, I'm also hoping to hear more soon.

I just finished reading Rainbow Rowell's "Fangirl". Highly recommended for writers with fanfic connections who want a good read and a creativity boost. :) It brought back some good memories.
 

LOTLOF

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[FONT=&quot]I realize this thread is a bit different from others in this section. Trust me, this will not be the first time I have done things in my own delightful way. The whole point in my posting this is to try and help others in much the same way I have been helped. That said I want to cover the experiences that helped shape me as a writer and the lessons that I learned from them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Writing fanfiction is how I learned to be an author. (Frightening as those words may be to some of you.) I think of myself as an advocate for fanfiction and fanfiction writers. I know it has a rather poor reputation, and honestly, perhaps ninety percent of the stories are deserving of it. But it’s the other ten percent that makes it worthwhile. There are a handful of real treasures to be found as well, that are every bit as entertaining as anything you will find from a trade publisher.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]George R R Martin has stated his opinion multiple times that he loathes fanfiction and does not consider it real writing. As he usually puts it; ‘creating your own characters is a part of the writing process.’ I agree with him as far as that goes. The biggest single difference between fanfiction and original writing is the need to create your own characters and setting. Yet that doesn’t make the effort worthless. You can still learn about plot, pacing, dialogue, keeping characters consistent, foreshadowing, building tension, subplots, and everything else that is part of real writing. I think of it as riding a bike with training wheels. Yes, eventually those suckers have to come off, but it teaches you the basics and is a worthwhile part of learning.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I know that many writers here are always looking for feedback on their efforts. Well one of the easiest and surest ways to get that is to write something set in a world that is already well known and popular. If you make a serious effort you WILL get reviews and people WILL tell you what they think. Just understand that the readers can be very… expressive in their opinions. I have gotten everything from being told I was a genius to being told I should go die.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Some of the lessons were harsh but all of them were necessary, and ultimately beneficial.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It turns out I really can write. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For a very long time I thought I could write. I filled up notebooks with various stories. I poured all my creative energy and passion into those stories and can remember always thinking they were great.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yet I didn’t dare show any of them to my friends of family for fear of having someone tell me they were all crap. That was more than my fragile ego could stand. So my notebooks stayed hidden and I cherished my secret hope that I could actually write, while dreading the possibility that I was just fooling myself.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Fanfiction gave me the opportunity to let people read my stories while still protecting my fragile ego.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]While I have gotten more than my share of hate and flames, I have had people tell me they loved my stories and were waiting for an update. My words have made people laugh, cry, and get angry. Complete strangers have felt due to the words I’ve written. Even now that amazes me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For someone who was always filled with self-doubt it is hard to explain what it meant when I posted a chapter to one of my stories and had fifty to a hundred reviews within a few hours. The first time one of my stories got a thousand reviews, two thousand reviews, a hundred thousand hits, five hundred thousand hits, a million I would feel just a little more confident and think, ‘yeah, maybe I really do have a little talent for this.’[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]More than anything else, that self-confidence was the most valuable part of writing fanfiction. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Writing is a skill like any other, you only improve through practice. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I wrote fanfiction for seven years and have over seventy seven stories posted, totaling over two point eight millionwords. Rereading my older stories I can see how I have improved over time. I have learned to battle my mortal enemy, the comma. I have developed characterization and learned how to pace myself and use foreshadowing. I have fought the tendency to use, ‘said’ with every single line of dialogue. I have tried to resist my urges to overpower my characters and my tendency to Gary Stu my main protagonist. Still working on that one.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Writing so many stories gave me the chance to see what worked and didn’t. It taught me some basic lessons about storytelling and let me slowly improve. I know there is still lots of room for improvement, but just writing as much as I did let me develop my own individual voice and style.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Constructive criticism and other points of view can actually be good things. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When I first began posting my stories online any review that even hinted there was something wrong seemed like a personal attack. Eventually I figured out that just because someone didn’t like my story didn’t mean that they were the devil incarnate. That is reserved for people who spam.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As an author you have complete understanding of the story and the characters. When they say or do something you know the exact meaning of it as well as the motivation behind it. By contrast the readers only know what you write, and what seems obvious to you may not be so to them. Reading negative reviews that actually explain what the person didn’t like can actually be a great tool in fixing problems you didn’t even realize were there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Also, the reader may have a completely different perspective on something that you, as the author, haven’t even considered. You are not required to follow anyone’s suggestions or agree with them, but if you keep an open mind you might actually find a new and better path to take.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Not everyone loves you, deal with it. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This may have been the hardest lesson and the one that took the longest to learn. Nothing is universally loved. The things one group will love are loathed by another. EVERYTHING that is worth reading is guaranteed to offend someone. You need to realize that just because someone or some group hates something you have written does not mean it’s bad. You can’t try to ‘fix’ every scene so that no one is upset by it. When you do that all you are doing is stripping your story of everything unique in it. What you will have left is a bland, shapeless mess that neither offends nor excites.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Understand from the beginning that you cannot please everyone and shouldn’t even try. Even if some people think you are wrong it doesn’t mean that you are.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Write for yourself and not for others. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When I sit down at my keyboard and start tapping something out I never ask myself, ‘will people like this’? I ask myself, ‘what will make the story better’? I write stories that I enjoy. I never wonder about what the reaction will be and I certainly would never let that change the plot.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On fanfiction.net I am infamous for my cliffhangers, plot twists, and character deaths. I take a perverse pride in knowing that my readers never know how it will end or if their favorite character will make it through. People have given me tons of grief for deliberately ending a chapter on a cliff hanger. They will often be surprised when I send the plot careening in a completely unexpected direction. And many of them can’t believe the body count among the main characters.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yet for me that was always the fun of writing fanfiction. Taking familiar characters and settings and then having brand new adventures with them! I loved the fact that when people read my stories they honestly didn’t know what was coming next. I love originality and just letting my imagination run wild. I gave the characters freedom of choice and let them do as they pleased. I also made them pay the consequences for it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The way I write is by trying to bring the characters to life within my mind and letting them behave as if they were real people in a real world. I then try to make their actions as realistic as possible. I believe strongly that actions have consequences, and that ultimately you will reap what you sow. People can make mistakes and bad choices, when they do they should not be shielded from the results. The kind of story I hate most is a ‘Deus Ex Machina’. Where no matter how badly the characters have screwed up they will get a happy ending even if it takes divine intervention. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Some readers hate my style of writing. That’s fine. I’m not writing for them. I write for myself and for those who also enjoy my stories. You can’t worry about what others will like. All you can do is write something that you yourself find interesting and hope some folk will want to come along for the ride.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Steal as much as you can. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now by this I obviously do not mean go out and plagiarize. What I mean is if you read a great line of dialogue or a wonderful scene or a memorable character feel free to use it. In my stories I have written lines taken from history, the Bible, movies, TV, and other books. I have scenes and plot twists from elsewhere and have written my own version of favorite characters. Raistlin, Lestat, Druscilla, Gandalf, and many others have been the inspiration for characters in my stories.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Anything you see or read that you enjoyed and will make your story better is fair game. Never think the need to be original trumps the need to be entertaining.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I once wrote a scene in one of my fanfiction stories that involved a judo match. It was a short scene in a long story and not particularly important. I researched judo online for all of ten minutes, wrote the scene, and moved on. Next day I got a review from someone who actually competed in judo. He went into tedious detail about how I got pretty much everything wrong and explained EXACTLY how I needed to rewrite the scene to get it accurate.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I didn’t bother.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If I were writing a text book or technical manual then getting the facts right would be paramount. When you are writing a fictional story what counts is whether or not it is entertaining. The judo match did what I wanted it to within the framework of my story, regardless of how inaccurate it might have been, so I let it be.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I know some writers want to get things as accurate as possible and will do tons of research. If that is their style then more power to them. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When the readers care you win. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]To me the difference between a successful story and an unsuccessful one is simply this; do the readers care about the characters? It doesn’t matter whether they hate them or love them so long as they care and want to see what becomes of them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I once received a two thousand word review about how much a reader loathed one of my villains. Someone actually took the time to write over two thousand words JUST to tell me how much they hated that character and how they wanted him to suffer.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Reading that made me very happy. Obviously I had succeeded in bringing that character to life for that reader. Ultimately I think that is what writing really is; bringing characters to life for the reader. You must make your characters real to yourself so they can become real to the reader.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]XXX[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Okay, I think that about covers what I learned from fanfiction. Next post I will actually get into my experiences self-publishing. [/FONT]
 
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Marian Perera

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[FONT=&quot]George R R Martin has stated his opinion multiple times that he loathes fanfiction and does not consider it real writing. As he usually puts it; ‘creating your own characters is a part of the writing process.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And there are ways to do that even if you're writing fanfiction. Two things I do are: make some very, very minor character the protagonist of the story (the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead approach) or create a new character to interact with the canon characters while still giving them the lion's share of the spotlight.

Derail over. Sorry, Lotlof![/FONT]
 

Old Hack

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LOTLOF, if this is intended to be a self publishing diary thread I'd appreciate it if you'd talk about your self publishing journey, and stop telling us all how to write.

If your two posts so far are typical of the sorts of posts you'd intended to make in this thread then you'd be far better off starting a blog and posting your thoughts there: AW isn't the place for such lectures.
 

buz

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[FONT=&quot]Steal as much as you can. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now by this I obviously do not mean go out and plagiarize. What I mean is if you read a great line of dialogue or a wonderful scene or a memorable character feel free to use it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Stealing people's lines and whole scenes is plagiarizing. ? Unless it's the sort of line that's used over and over again, in which case it's probably cliche and boring...

I don't think authors (who are not writing fanfic, obvi) should willingly steal characters, though using them for inspiration is totally fine...
[/FONT]using anything for inspiration is fine, as long as it's only inspiration.

Maybe, uh, rephrase the above, so it doesn't sound like you're advocating plagiarism.

[FONT="]Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story. [/FONT][/B][FONT="]I once wrote a scene in one of my fanfiction stories that involved a judo match. It was a short scene in a long story and not particularly important. I researched judo online for all of ten minutes, wrote the scene, and moved on. Next day I got a review from someone who actually competed in judo. He went into tedious detail about how I got pretty much everything wrong and explained EXACTLY how I needed to rewrite the scene to get it accurate.[/FONT]

[FONT="]I didn’t bother.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but knowingly being factually inaccurate out of laziness is only going to hurt you. Readers who pick up on inaccuracies will eventually lose faith in you as an author to present a story they can believe in. Of course, the point at which this happens is different for everyone. I can overlook a few inaccuracies, particularly if they're practically tropes in themselves (head injuries come to mind), but do it often enough and I'll stop believing the story, at which point I stop reading. Many readers are not as patient as I am...:D

Of course, inaccuracies are going to slip through, but if you know they're there, why wouldn't you fix them?
[/FONT]
 
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writingnewbie

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Next post I will actually get into my experiences self-publishing.

Looking forward to reading your self-publishing journey.

It looks like your seven years as a fanfiction writer has paid off.

Your book is great and it is selling well.
 

Old Hack

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Telling us how to write is one thing: feeding us bad advice is another.

buzhidao, thanks for highlighting those two points.

Plagiarism is not acceptable, and sloppy research is going to kill off your readership before you've even developed it.

At this point, I suggest that people ignore your posts and look to successful writers for writing advice.
 

James D. Macdonald

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[FONT=&quot]I didn’t bother.[/FONT]

Next time, bother.

Bother before you publish.

Have you ever paused to wonder why self-published works have a poor reputation among many readers?

You know the name of one person who won't read any of your subsequent stories. You don't know the names of the ones who won't be reading your subsequent works but didn't take the time to write to you. And you don't know the names of their friends who they told "Don't bother" when asked if they should read something by you.

If a scene is important enough to put in your story it's important enough to get right.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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I wrote over 200 fanfiction stories in a variety of genres and shows and never plagiarized or "let the facts get in the way". And yes, they're all up on ff.net. Including one of the first ones, I believe.

Of course, this was back in the day of Usenet. 1993.

Just fyi.
 

Amadan

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Steal scenes and lines you like, screw research? This looks like a recipe for becoming the next fandom_wank star when you get published and fans start going through your book and finding all the bits you stole from other authors.
 

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[FONT=&quot]I wound up spending two years writing my novel. Though I love epic fantasy I discovered I don’t have the chops to write it. My novel was a fantasy parody with an incompetent dark mage being forced on a hero’s journey. As I wrote it I had a trusted Beta go over each chapter and tell me what she thought. I also edited each chapter as it was completed and edited the story as a whole twice. It turned out my efforts were not as thorough as I expected, but I was not going to pay for a freelance editor and felt I had done the best I could on my own.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now a very important point I would like to make is the expectations I had at the time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While I had built up a very strong following in fanfiction I had never actually published anything. All my submissions to various magazines had been rejected with form letters. I was not expecting my fanfiction readers to actually buy my book. Many of them had encouraged me to try and get published and promised they would immediately snap up my novel. Somehow I didn’t put a lot of stock in those promises; when all is said and done a lot more is said than done.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I was not expecting any sort of immediate success. My original goal was just to sell ten books. My secondary goal was to sell a hundred. What I wanted was to try and repeat my experience with fanfiction. When I began I was just an unknown author among thousands of others. I just kept plugging away posting story after story and began to build up a fan base. I saw the first novel in terms of gaining experience and as a beginning. My hope was that some people would enjoy it and spread the word and that with each following novel there would be more.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Self-publishing was the obvious choice. I didn’t want to spend months trying to find a trade publisher who would be interested. I wanted to begin writing original material and to see progress, even if it was slow. I figured that by self-publishing my stories would at least be out there and people would have access to them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I took a look at Outskirt Press and similar companies, but since I wasn’t expecting to make any money the costs for their packages didn’t seem justified. I wound up uploading my novel onto Amazon using Createspace. I used their cover generator and wound up with an awful cover, but it was free so I decided to just live with it. I went with the Amazon Select program on the theory that the free downloads would help spread the novel around to more readers. The decision to just use Amazon was also largely based on what I’d read here on this forum.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As for marketing I announced my novel being published on my website and through fanfiction. I deliberately updated my three most popular fanfiction stories and included the news in Author Notes on each.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That was that. My ebook became available for sale on Amazon on April 5th.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My ebook sales thus far:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]April - 495[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]May – 1,095[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]June - 738 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]July - 804[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]August - 744[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]September - 520[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Total – 4,396[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It took two days to get my tenth sale and nine to get my one hundredth. Everything after that was simply gravy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I should have had more faith in my fanfiction readers as they gave me a strong initial boost, not only in sales but in reviews on Amazon. My first thirteen reviews were all 5 star and I am sure that helped getting the initial momentum going. After about two weeks I was listed in the top ten of Amazon’s Humor > Parody subgenre list. That gave me another boost as it made my novel more visible to readers interested in that category.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The only negative was that a number of my reviews complained about grammatical mistakes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Since coming out I had one of my fanfiction readers volunteer to make me a new cover. It was a MAJOR improvement and I noticed an immediate spike in sales as soon as it was posted. Apparently a lot of people do judge a book by its cover. She has already agreed to provide the cover on the next book for which I’ll be paying her this time. I will also bite the bullet and pay for an editor to help me on the next one.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From the reviews and sales it’s clear a whole lot of people enjoyed the first book. I am doing my best to make the second one even better. My goal is to keep improving with each novel and to continue building the fanbase. I would like to make a living at this and still hope to see a book with my name on it on a bookstore shelf.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now please excuse me as I slowly tear my hair out staring at an empty computer screen.[/FONT]
 

writingnewbie

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Next time, bother.

Bother before you publish.

Have you ever paused to wonder why self-published works have a poor reputation among many readers?

You know the name of one person who won't read any of your subsequent stories. You don't know the names of the ones who won't be reading your subsequent works but didn't take the time to write to you. And you don't know the names of their friends who they told "Don't bother" when asked if they should read something by you.

If a scene is important enough to put in your story it's important enough to get right.

LOTLOF stated that it's a short scene in a long fanfiction and the judo match is not particularly important to the story.

How much research is necessary?






Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story. I once wrote a scene in one of my fanfiction stories that involved a judo match. It was a short scene in a long story and not particularly important. I researched judo online for all of ten minutes, wrote the scene, and moved on. Next day I got a review from someone who actually competed in judo. He went into tedious detail about how I got pretty much everything wrong and explained EXACTLY how I needed to rewrite the scene to get it accurate.

I didn’t bother.

If I were writing a text book or technical manual then getting the facts right would be paramount. When you are writing a fictional story what counts is whether or not it is entertaining. The judo match did what I wanted it to within the framework of my story, regardless of how inaccurate it might have been, so I let it be.

I know some writers want to get things as accurate as possible and will do tons of research. If that is their style then more power to them.






You know the name of one person who won't read any of your subsequent stories. You don't know the names of the ones who won't be reading your subsequent works but didn't take the time to write to you. And you don't know the names of their friends who they told "Don't bother" when asked if they should read something by you.

I doubt it is that extreme.

If you are a huge fan of rugby and you're reading a Harry Potter fanfiction in which there is a scene where a rugby match is described inaccurately, would you stop reading even though you have enjoy the fanfiction so far? Would you tell your friends to stop reading it because the rugby description is totally wrong?


LOTLOF stated what worked for him. He stated that it isn't for everyone:

I know some writers want to get things as accurate as possible and will do tons of research. If that is their style then more power to them.
 
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writingnewbie

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My ebook sales thus far:

April - 495
May – 1,095
June - 738
July - 804
August - 744
September - 520

Total – 4,396

Congratulations on your sales. The monthly breakdown is useful. You wrote this on another thread:

I have one novel on the KDP Select program. I've sold over 4,000 ebooks and made north of $8,000 in royalties.

Have you considered increasing your book price to $3.99 from the current $2.99 price? Royalties wise:

($2.99 - $0.10 delivery fee) x 70% = $2.02 per book

($3.99 - $0.10 delivery fee) x 70% = $2.72 per book

1000 books sold at $2.99 = 743 books sold at $3.99

Though changing the price might be a good decision it could also turn out to be a bad one if your sales decrease so much that the higher royalties can't compensate.

I mention it because 495 pages epic fantasy for $2.99 might be a tad low in my opinion.
 

buz

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LOTLOF stated that it's a short scene in a long fanfiction and the judo match is not particularly important to the story.

So? If it's not important, it takes very little effort to change it, doesn't it?

How much research is necessary?
As much as you can think of to do. There's some stuff you're going to miss, and stuff you'll screw up, because it's impossible for everyone be an expert on everything. But if you *know* it's wrong, why wouldn't you change it?

I had a scene in which a pregnant woman is standing around. I had a line that said something about how she felt physically, and I had the good fortune of having a beta reader who'd actually been pregnant who told me that she wouldn't have felt whatever I was describing so early in the pregnancy.

The line wasn't important. It cost me nothing to change it. The only reasons I'd have for not changing it would be a) laziness or b) forgetting to change it (the latter is always really likely for me, but that's my own personal battle :p ).

The cost of leaving it in would be a small erosion in the reader's faith in me to construct a believable story, which is not a necessary cost at all.

If the reader doesn't believe the story, then they don't care about the story, and you're dead in the water.

A small hiccup here and there may not bother most readers, but if you develop an overall attitude of "who cares about facts?" as the post seems to be advocating, you're likely to cause more than one or two small hiccups.

When you leave inaccuracies in the story, you push the reader out of the story for that moment that their knowledge clashes against what you've just told them. Yeah, it happens accidentally. But again, if youknow it's there, and particularly if it's not an important scene, why wouldn't you change it to make your story the best it can be and give your readers the greatest value?

If you are a huge fan of rugby and you're reading a Harry Potter fanfiction in which there is a scene where a rugby match is described inaccurately, would you stop reading even though you have enjoy the fanfiction so far?
Some people might. My father was the sort of guy who would walk out of a movie theater if whatever he was watching was historically inaccurate.

But as I said, it's not so much leaving in the one mistake as advocating the overall principle. Being inaccurate will yank some readers out of the story in a bad way and turn them off. If you do it on purpose, I'd argue you're advocating a certain level of disrespect to the readers.

LOTLOF stated what worked for him. He stated that it isn't for everyone:

I know some writers want to get things as accurate as possible and will do tons of research. If that is their style then more power to them.
As I said, everyone's entitled to their opinions, but that means I'm also entitled to my own opinions and to disagree. My worry is that it's presented as general writing advice, and to me it doesn't seem to be very good advice, so I thought I'd throw out my own opinion. :)
 
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Marian Perera

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If you are a huge fan of rugby and you're reading a Harry Potter fanfiction in which there is a scene where a rugby match is described inaccurately, would you stop reading even though you have enjoy the fanfiction so far?

Even if I didn't stop reading, my enjoyment of the fic would be compromised.

if the author doesn't care about that, that's the author's call. But if I get the impression that the author really couldn't give a toss about accuracy, that's when I'd stop reading and maybe post about it on the ffrants community.
 

eqb

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If I generally enjoyed the book but I noticed one scene with minor inaccuracies, I would probably keep reading. After several, I'd probably stop, unless the book was otherwise outstanding.

However, if I came across this thread with the author's comments about stealing from other authors, and how research didn't matter, I'd put the author on my never-buy list and tell all my friends not to bother.

But that's just me.
 

Marian Perera

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However, if I came across this thread with the author's comments about stealing from other authors, and how research didn't matter, I'd put the author on my never-buy list and tell all my friends not to bother.

Agreed.

Under those circumstances, I also hope the author in question never reads anything I've ever written and never will, because I don't like to think of my hard work being stolen whenever the author pleases - with other writers being encouraged to do the same thing.
 

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Just to add... as a self-published author I haven't got a legal team behind me so I'm really careful about any kind of plagiarism, especially well known lines from TV. Scarlett Johannson had a pretty big problem with an author using her name in a book, so I don't even put famous people in my books now. I'm even wary about harmlessly mentioned a popular song or band. I just make my own up to stay out of trouble.
 

LBlankenship

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If you are a huge fan of rugby and you're reading a Harry Potter fanfiction in which there is a scene where a rugby match is described inaccurately, would you stop reading even though you have enjoy the fanfiction so far? Would you tell your friends to stop reading it because the rugby description is totally wrong?

I'm not a huge fan of rugby, and writing that's so sloppy that even I know the match was described incorrectly is part of why I don't read fanfic.

You are the only person holding yourself responsible for the quality of your writing, when you're a self-publisher. If you can't be bothered to find a way to make an accurate rugby match entertaining... shrugs.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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You are the only person holding yourself responsible for the quality of your writing, when you're a self-publisher. If you can't be bothered to find a way to make an accurate rugby match entertaining... shrugs.

This.

When I wrote fanfiction I sweated over scenes for hours. I wanted to deliver the best product I could to my readers.

The same is true now. I didn't think of delivering crap to my fanfic readers because I could get away with it/they weren't paying for it so who were *they* to make demands.

If you're going to self-publishing OR go the trade route you owe your readers the best you can deliver.

I have a space opera book coming out in May 2014 from Carina. Imagine Firefly/Best Little Whorehouse murder mystery. I asked my hubby, an engineer, to go over it to make sure the science was correct.

Could I have gotten away with less? Maybe. I don't know.

I *do* know I would feel bad if I delivered nothing but my best. And if getting an engineer to make sure my spaceship and my zero-g sections were honest makes my book better... why wouldn't I?
 
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