PDA

View Full Version : Q about publishing after posting poetry in the forum



ProsperitySue
02-21-2006, 11:58 PM
I've read the sticky about posting in the poetry forum. I understand that some publishers consider it published when it's posted and that we might not be able to sell first rights. One tip given was to delete the thread.

And yet, I see great poems that are still posted. Is it that you aren't concerned about a conflict and just leave it?

If I post and then edit the poem and change even a few words, does that mean it is original and unpublished? if not, at what point is it a new poem?

If I submit a poem should I say it was posted in a forum?

I see some of the threads where only the userid is left and thought those might be threads that were deleted so that the poet could submit their poem.

If I post a poem in the "poetry critique" workshop is that considered published since it has a password? I see many excellent poets who are not using the critique workshop, but posting openly in the forum. I'm confused about the difference as far as submitting poetry for publishing.

Thanks for your opinions!

William Haskins
02-22-2006, 12:02 AM
there are some poets who frequent this forum who do send poems out for publication and occasionally will ask that their work be deleted from the main forum.

the critique forum is there to add an additional buffer as it is not public by default.

others might can add their personal experiences and views here to enlighten you on the ins and outs of any potential conflict.

i generally leave my poems, though i did remove some a while back for a different reason. i don't personally seek publication, so it doesn't present any problems for me.

anyone else?

Cassie88
02-22-2006, 12:12 AM
I've been concerned about this issue as I just don't understand it. It seems insane to me that a poem posted in a writing forum be considered published, but what do I know. Some times I may post a poem in the reg. forum, but just in case a poem may end up being something that has the possible potential of being published or one that I may decide might be a worthy contender in a contest, I usually post in the critique forum. What bothers me or maybe I'm imagining it... is it doesn't seem like all the writers frequent the critique forum as often as the regular.

aspier
02-22-2006, 12:42 AM
I've read the sticky about posting in the poetry forum. I understand that some publishers consider it published when it's posted and that we might not be able to sell first rights. One tip given was to delete the thread.

And yet, I see great poems that are still posted. Is it that you aren't concerned about a conflict and just leave it?

If I post and then edit the poem and change even a few words, does that mean it is original and unpublished? if not, at what point is it a new poem?

If I submit a poem should I say it was posted in a forum?

I see some of the threads where only the userid is left and thought those might be threads that were deleted so that the poet could submit their poem.

If I post a poem in the "poetry critique" workshop is that considered published since it has a password? I see many excellent poets who are not using the critique workshop, but posting openly in the forum. I'm confused about the difference as far as submitting poetry for publishing.

Thanks for your opinions!


Oh my Darling! Don't worry about this! The most important thing there is, is to get your work 'out'. Consider it a big honour if people copy or steal your work! And let no scare of a so-called publisher keeps you from sharing your work. Here come steal mine and honour me!

Complete works of Aspier never been published = http://users.skynet.be/spier/oeuvredownload.htm Why shall I hide it in a closet because of the whims of publishers? The biggest writer of the 20th Century, James Joyce, died in poverty ... he just wrote and wrote. Etc.

Cassie88
02-22-2006, 12:53 AM
Yes, I understand Aspier, but still.... I thought I might submit my poem, Adultery, in the Writer's Digest annual contest, but the rules say... Cannot be published or produced ... What does "Produced" mean? This issue gets on my last nerve.

William Haskins
02-22-2006, 02:11 AM
okay. if we want to debate the virtues of seeking publication vs. not doing so, let's please do it in another thread.

edit: and so it was (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27829)

i'd like for this one to serve as a clearinghouse for information and opinions on how posting on writers' boards affect first rights.

ProsperitySue
02-22-2006, 04:03 AM
Thanks for your opinions. It seems to me that it's not a clear cut topic. I wasn't concerned about someone stealing it. I just wanted to know if I could legally submit a poem as original and unpublished that had been in the open forum.

My thoughts are that deleting the thread would be a good way to manage it if a poet wanted to submit a poem. We show poems to friends and in writing groups, so would just having it posted for a week be considered the same thing?

And, William, I consider this related: how much editing constitutes a new poem? If we post a poem, get the helpful critiques and then change it, that seems like it would be an original poem. Is that reasonable? I think I should go deeper into research at the library or online, but I very much appreciate hearing your opinions and experiences.

William Haskins
02-22-2006, 04:18 AM
my hunch is that it would depend on the editor. i just don't know that there are any hard and fast rules on this.

ProsperitySue
02-22-2006, 04:30 AM
my hunch is that it would depend on the editor. i just don't know that there are any hard and fast rules on this.

I'm getting the feeling this whole topic is fairly undefined. I'm assuming a market like Writer's Digest that cassie88 was talking about would be firm. They state their rules and expect us to follow them. Other sources might not be concerned.

So, what's helpful here is just to have opinions and experiences. At least that way, we can make an informed choice.

I do want to make sure I am clear on this though: if we post a poem in the Writer's Critique Workshop, which has a password, that is not considered publishing. I'm guessing there isn't any "publishing" rule that states this, but in practical terms it's a good faith action and as close as we can get to not publishing while still interacting in the forum.

William Haskins
02-22-2006, 04:34 AM
that is correct.

i'm sorry i can't be of more help to you. i turned my back on poetry publishing more than 10 years ago and never looked back.

hopefully, we can get some input from folks that know the dance.

veinglory
02-22-2006, 06:35 AM
Markets go both ways on this and there are two approaches to take.

1) ask if posting to a workshopping forum is considered 'publishing' by them

2) Try and delete any evidence of this workshopping long enough before submitting that they will never know it ever happened (i.e. time for google caches to clear, about 6 months).

I admit to leaning towards option #2. If this issue is worrying you can use password protected, members-only areas online which almost no-one consideres to be 'publishing'.

ProsperitySue
02-22-2006, 06:03 PM
2) Try and delete any evidence of this workshopping long enough before submitting that they will never know it ever happened (i.e. time for google caches to clear, about 6 months).

I admit to leaning towards option #2. If this issue is worrying you can use password protected, members-only areas online which almost no-one considers to be 'publishing'.

In a post above Cassie88 found herself in a spot regarding her recent AW winning Valentine contest poem:


I thought I might submit my poem, Adultery, in the Writer's Digest annual contest, but the rules say... Cannot be published or produced ... What does "Produced" mean? This issue gets on my last nerve.

It's more that I find it inhibiting to post if I thought that I couldn't submit something that I posted -- I do intend to submit. Well, and I love good poetry and I want to write me some. :)

I'm so dang shy about showing my poetry. I've written poetry since I can remember and I know it's not good, but I would like it to be. I've learned so much from some of the critiques and think I could learn a lot here.

I want to write poems, have critiques, edit them, and send them out. I want to get used to submitting -- and to be published, of course.

I want to have fun writing and I have been blocked. I just think the whole process of posting, receiving critiques, and submitting will release this inhibition. It's much more fun to just let the words flow whether it's published or submitted or not.

Your answer was excellent advice, veinglory. I appreciate it. It sounds easier to just put it in the critique workshop in the first place and let it go at that.

words like tiny blossoms
seek the sunlight --
hum of honey bees

Pat~
02-22-2006, 07:18 PM
Suzanne, just to share my limited experience with this, whether or not forum posting is considered publication does seem to vary from publisher to publisher, as several above have noted. I have had some of my poems published, and intend to continue submitting poetry for publication, so I post in the password-protected forum if it's a fairly polished poem that I plan on submitting. If the poem is really in need of a lot of help, and is not anywhere near its finished state, I may post it in the general poetry forum, because it does seem to get more traffic. By the time I'm finished with that particular poem, it will be different enough that I don't think it could be considered 'previously published.'

Not sure if that helps, but that's how I handle the dilemma. (BTW, I also only post already published works on my website, for the same reasons.)

William Haskins
02-22-2006, 07:21 PM
thank you for your insights, veinglory and pat.

Paint
02-22-2006, 08:08 PM
Hi everybody! I put my poems in the critique forum because I feel very positive about them and feel each poem has the potential to be good. I always hope to publish, so I put them in 'password protected.' Poetry is not something I do for money. (disclaimer: at this point in my life)

I have had publishers come to me as a direct result of posting my poetry here and I think that is very exciting.
I guess what I am saying is I feel like Aspier in that I just want to get it out somewhere and let the fates fall where they may.
Sometimes you can over-analyze until it all falls apart. It feels right to me to get it out of my head and shared with someone else. After that I'll take it as it comes.
Besides Jenna feels it's alright and I trust Jenna or I would not be here.

Happy Writing!
Paint

ProsperitySue
02-23-2006, 03:40 AM
Pat and Paint, I really appreciate the information you shared. You've found the ways that work for you and I'm glad to know there won't be a conflict. I want submitting to be a part of my experience of writing and didn't want to get into some kind of snafu unknowingly.

I appreciate knowing a rough draft can be put in the public part of the poetry forum, and if changed, can be submitted as original.

Thanks to all of you! Your posts have been very helpful. I know. I know. Get writing!!! :)