What have you done to me?!

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

Before I discovered this site, I was just a prolific reader. I'm not terribly fussy about genre, and go through phases of reading one genre then another. Some books I love, and I buy copies for my friends, some I think are drivel, and most are somewhere in between.

Then I started reading this forum. And now the things which annoy me in books have names. Instead of cruising past them, I notice them. They annoy me, because I know they have a name and therefore are known to be bad practice. This makes me wonder how they got in there, and why no-one noticed.

Books aren't quite as fun as they used to be, because I find myself analysing what worked and why, and what annoyed me and why.

Please tell me this will pass! Or am I doomed forever to want to throw the book across the room but have to refrain from doing so because I do all my reading on a Kindle?

Anninyn · Sep 23, 2013

Good and bad news for you:

It will not pass, but you will learn to ignore it. If you want to ignore it, that is. And now, when you don't like a book or don't think something works you can be accurate and precise about why.

This awareness will make you a much better writer, too.

slhuang · Sep 23, 2013

It won't pass. :Hug2:

The happy thing, though, is that when you read books that are really, really well-written, you'll enjoy and appreciate them even more than you would have otherwise. Your palate is becoming gourmet, in other words.

5thBananaSplit · Sep 23, 2013

Some people learn to become deeply offended by such things, as if each one were a grievous personal insult.

You can spot them readily. They often become enraged while reading, they collect typographic errors as if they were trophies, and they are quick to note how profoundly ill-informed the rest of us are.

In the business, we call them editors.

If you encounter one in the field, and you begin to feel as though you may be in danger, I'm told that you can temporarily stun them with a steak through the heart.

P.S. I know this because I was one once. I'm okay now. I got help.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

slhuang said:
It won't pass.

The happy thing, though, is that when you read books that are really, really well-written, you'll enjoy and appreciate them even more than you would have otherwise. Your palate is becoming gourmet, in other words.

But they are so few and far between.

On the plus side, whilst I may generally eat healthily and exercise every day, I do still like junk food an unreasonable amount, so I am hopeful I will continue to enjoy less gourmet books

I think I used to just skim over the slightly awkward bits of books, now it's like they leap up and beat me round the head. It's most disconcerting.

buz · Sep 23, 2013

It depends on you yourself and how you think and whatnot...

I find that if a book pulls me in, it also pulls me out of amateur-editor mode for the most part, and I just read like I used to.

If, however, the book struggles to draw me in, I'm going to start analyzing and putting a name to That Which Is Not Working For Me.

Since it's really hard to find the time to read actual published novels in between reading all the unpublished ones, I can get very selective, so I end up not reading that many books that don't pull me in. (This is why I have never read GRRM. I keep feeling like I should because everyone else has, but I can't get past the first page.

Oh well. Moving on...) Therefore, I'm not often in amateur-editor mode when reading for pleasure.

This only becomes a problem when I'm supposed to be critiquing something and the book pulls me in and I have to keep remind myself to PAY ATTENTION and whine more...

But all this is just my personal experience. It may be different for you.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

5thBananaSplit said:
Some people learn to become deeply offended by such things, as if each one were a grievous personal insult.

You can spot them readily. They often become enraged while reading, they collect typographic errors as if they were trophies, and they are quick to note how profoundly ill-informed the rest of us are.

In the business, we call them editors.

If you encounter one in the field, and you begin to feel as though you may be in danger, I'm told that you can temporarily stun them with a steak through the heart.

P.S. I know this because I was one once. I'm okay now. I got help.

*whispers* I've been paid as a sub-editor before now. I correct people on social media sites. I even sent a snarky email to a client once because a third party had described my report as 'floored'. I'm not proud.

I am curious as to how you put a steak through someone's heart though? Do you have to cook it until it's really, really tough?

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

buzhidao said:
It depends on you yourself and how you think and whatnot...

I find that if a book pulls me in, it also pulls me out of amateur-editor mode for the most part, and I just read like I used to.

If, however, the book struggles to draw me in, I'm going to start analyzing and putting a name to That Which Is Not Working For Me.

Since it's really hard to find the time to read actual published novels in between reading all the unpublished ones, I can get very selective, so I end up not reading that many books that don't pull me in. (This is why I have never read GRRM. I keep feeling like I should because everyone else has, but I can't get past the first page. Oh well. Moving on...) Therefore, I'm not often in amateur-editor mode when reading for pleasure.

This only becomes a problem when I'm supposed to be critiquing something and the book pulls me in and I have to keep remind myself to PAY ATTENTION and whine more...

But all this is just my personal experience. It may be different for you.

I read GRRM. It just didn't grip me. There, I said it. I read them because I succumbed to peer pressure, and as I should have known, that didn't result in a good experience. My mother was right. I don't see myself reading any more unless someone brings out a neat synopsis of what has happened to date.

I read lots, probably about a book a week. I know when something hasn't gripped me because it takes me more than a week to finish it. The Long Earth was one of those books - perfectly well written, but I just didn't really get the point of it. I finished it the other day, and if I'm honest, I still don't get the point.

You have given me hope Buz - I can switch off!

Phaeal · Sep 23, 2013

Yeah, as buzhidao said, if the book's good on the whole, you'll forgive it its trespasses and enjoy. When the trespasses become serious -- or when they're your pet trespasses, which might be someone else's pet delights -- you might have to stop and consider whether the book's for you.

If it's not, don't read on unless you're getting paid to, or unless you're the sort of person who likes to write snarky reviews, come hell or authorial indignation.

NeuroFizz · Sep 23, 2013

I guess I have a bit of the opposite problem. If I find a good story, I have no trouble reading it as a reader rather than a writer. If I find a particular scene or chapter that is satisfying, I have to go back later to analyze it to see why it struck me so. I guess the answer is to re-learn to read as a reader.

If the book has problems that pull me from the story, the writer in me re-surfaces right away. But most times I can take note of why it pulled me away and at least make a good effort to get back into the story.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

Phaeal said:
Yeah, as buzhidao said, if the book's good on the whole, you'll forgive it its trespasses and enjoy. When the trespasses become serious -- or when they're your pet trespasses, which might be someone else's pet delights -- you might have to stop and consider whether the book's for you.

If it's not, don't read on unless you're getting paid to, or unless you're the sort of person who likes to write snarky reviews, come hell or authorial indignation.

Until I started reading this site, it didn't even occur to me to review books. I know, I know! Well, that's not quite true - our house is the universal lending library for all our friends, who regularly come to browse and disappear with my books. My husband tries to bribe them to not return them, but I am wise to his ways and write my name in them

So I review them to friends and on my facebook page.

I am hopeful that I will continue to find books which immerse me in the story - the hit rate recently has been poor

Kylabelle · Sep 23, 2013

Oh, what's even worse is when a really wonderful writer whom you trust not to do those things which so grate on your finely attuned sensibilities, does.

That really hurtz.

And, by the way, I believe the application of a steak to the heart is best accomplished accompanied by judicious amounts of excellent wine.

5thBananaSplit · Sep 23, 2013

usuallycountingbats said:
I am curious as to how you put a steak through someone's heart though? Do you have to cook it until it's really, really tough?

You see, it works because it's appears to be a typo. Editors really hate those.

LOTLOF · Sep 23, 2013

usuallycountingbats said:
Please tell me this will pass!

Sorry, you're doomed.

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 23, 2013

It happens. You just have to learn to appreciate books again from a new angle. It's totally doable.

Mr Flibble · Sep 23, 2013

It won't pass but it will settle down a bit. You'll find that if you're enjoying a book enough you may notice little quibbles, but they won't make you want to hurl the book across the room. Sometimes if you're enjoying a book enough the flaws won't matter. Sometimes you will see that they have used 'that bad thing' but used it very well, so it's no longer a flaw. Sometimes you'll be able to see that a book is perfectly well written, just not really for you.

And then you'll think, 'Now I know why agents don't take on very many clients' because they too are this picky.

And sometimes, if you are a very very good little boy/girl, you will find a book that seems to you to have few to no flaws, and you will cry and call yourself a talentless hack, because you will know just how good it is, and why, and exactly how much talent it required....and when you love a book you will LOVE IT SO VERY HARD and you will try to force it onto anyone who will listen and if they do not like it you will cease to be friends, like, ever again! (OK not really, but you want everyone to love this book like you do, and you'll feel like an agent who just picked up a great book out of the slush pile)

And that -- finding a book you love that hard and knowing too just why you love it -- makes it worth it.

slhuang · Sep 23, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
And sometimes, if you are a very very good little boy/girl, you will find a book that seems to you to have few to no flaws, and you will cry and call yourself a talentless hack, because you will know just how good it is, and why, and exactly how much talent it required....and when you love a book you will LOVE IT SO VERY HARD and you will try to force it onto anyone who will listen and if they do not like it you will cease to be friends, like, ever again! (OK not really, but you want everyone to love this book like you do, and you'll feel like an agent who just picked up a great book out of the slush pile)

Yup.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
And sometimes, if you are a very very good little boy/girl, you will find a book that seems to you to have few to no flaws, and you will cry and call yourself a talentless hack, because you will know just how good it is, and why, and exactly how much talent it required....and when you love a book you will LOVE IT SO VERY HARD and you will try to force it onto anyone who will listen and if they do not like it you will cease to be friends, like, ever again! (OK not really, but you want everyone to love this book like you do, and you'll feel like an agent who just picked up a great book out of the slush pile)

And that -- finding a book you love that hard and knowing too just why you love it -- makes it worth it.

I do this already. I am a book nuisance. I actually think this is probably why I never bothered to write anything non-fiction before - because I knew it wouldn't be that good, so what was the point.

Then 2 years ago I took up a new sport from scratch and recently made the A team for it, and in doing so realised that a) more mediocre people have a role to fill and entertain people anyway and b) practicing loads and learning your weak spots makes you get better really fast!

Or something.

Mr Flibble · Sep 23, 2013

Ah but now when you do it, it'll be because you know why it's so very good.

And everything comes with practice (up to a point. I mean I think my skills at rugby would top off at a certain, fairly low point even if I trained lots, but perhaps higher at hockey, you know?)

Thing is, whatever you train in, be it the whack of ball on willow, or writing a good story, you will always come to notice the flaws in other people's technique because that is how you start to see the flaws in your own. It's part of how we learn. I can't imagine a professional musician can watch a sub par performance without wincing....

usuallycountingbats · Sep 23, 2013

Yep. It's the very reason I was looking for a site where people did useful critiques, because without that kind of guidance, how can you ever improve?

Putputt · Sep 23, 2013

slhuang said:
It won't pass.

The happy thing, though, is that when you read books that are really, really well-written, you'll enjoy and appreciate them even more than you would have otherwise. Your palate is becoming gourmet, in other words.

Pretty much this. Which is why, when I come across a book that fails to annoy me in any way, I just want to dry-hump the author.

DreamWeaver · Sep 23, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
It won't pass but it will settle down a bit. You'll find that if you're enjoying a book enough you may notice little quibbles, but they won't make you want to hurl the book across the room. Sometimes if you're enjoying a book enough the flaws won't matter. Sometimes you will see that they have used 'that bad thing' but used it very well, so it's no longer a flaw. Sometimes you'll be able to see that a book is perfectly well written, just not really for you.

And then you'll think, 'Now I know why agents don't take on very many clients' because they too are this picky.

And sometimes, if you are a very very good little boy/girl, you will find a book that seems to you to have few to no flaws, and you will cry and call yourself a talentless hack, because you will know just how good it is, and why, and exactly how much talent it required....and when you love a book you will LOVE IT SO VERY HARD and you will try to force it onto anyone who will listen and if they do not like it you will cease to be friends, like, ever again! (OK not really, but you want everyone to love this book like you do, and you'll feel like an agent who just picked up a great book out of the slush pile)

And that -- finding a book you love that hard and knowing too just why you love it -- makes it worth it.

I was going to write a reply, but this one was so perfect I just co-opted it. Thanks, Mr Flibble :hi:

.

kaitie · Sep 23, 2013

Something that helps me with this is to remind myself that no one is perfect. A writer might be awesome at ten billion things, then awful about repeating a certain phrase, but even if it drives me nuts, I can't expect perfection from everyone (or even most). I try to focus on the whole rather than individual elements. Some books that's easier to do than others. :tongue

DeleyanLee · Sep 23, 2013

For me, yes, it did pass. I can read just as a reader, just like I "used to". However, now, if something strikes me as brilliant or irks me, I have the ability to analyze it to discover why (and to see how to do it myself, especially if it's brilliant.

).

However, if I find myself stopping too often because the story is irking me, I stop reading--just like I did before I actively started writing. I just know what bothered me more than I did before. *shrug*

sophiab · Sep 23, 2013

I feel the same way. God forbid when I read those books that haven't been edited properly. I too have to refrain from throwing my kindle across the room. But, when I find that one great book, I'll reread it and enjoy it.

What have you done to me?!

Procrastinating on the net.

Stealing your twiglets.

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Procrastinating on the net.

edits all posts at least four times

Procrastinating on the net.

Procrastinating on the net.

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

The grad students did it

Procrastinating on the net.

unaccounted for

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Procrastinating on the net.

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Procrastinating on the net.

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg

Shakespearean Fool

With great power comes

Writing Anarchist