Will A Masters In Creative Writing Get You A Book Deal? (Guardian Article)

Yes, if you've written a good book. No, if you haven't.

gothicangel said:

Interesting article by Prajwel Parajuly, who took a Creative Writing degree at Oxford, and graduated with a two book deal.

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but....

I signed with my literary agent three days before I started the two-year master of studies in creative writing at Oxford, and I signed a two-book contract with Quercus three days before the second year of the course began. Some people, however, assume that my book deal was wholly the result of the course.

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James D. Macdonald said:

Yes, if you've written a good book. No, if you haven't.

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Also, if sales of the first two tank, good luck selling a third, no matter what degrees you have or how wonderful your books may be.

(That's the time to change your agent, change your name, and join the DAW Witness Protection Program.)

It would have to be a pretty considerable book deal to make up the cost of the masters degree. I'm about to write a terrifying cheque to a bank to pay off my postgraduate loan, which was approximately twice the size of the average advance.

James D. Macdonald said:

Yes, if you've written a good book. No, if you haven't.

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QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

I feel sick to my stomach every time something like this rears its head. I have nothing against education. I'm just afraid that the powers that be (Big Brother???) are going to insist one day that I hang up my writing hat. I am a high school drop out. /-:

gothicangel said:

As an English graduate (and I don't intend to upset anyone here), my opinion of Creative Writing degrees is that they are one huge cash cow for financially challenged universities. The same goes for X-factor style courses in Music departments.

If that makes me a snob, then there it is.

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I absolutely agree. My university's Creative Writing department is highly ranked--and not terribly useful, IMO. There are plenty of people who will never take a writing class and go on to publish great books. And there are many people majoring in CW who will never sell a word. Honing your skills is great, but someone who's dedicated will find a way to do that regardless. Honestly, I'd rather spend my time here (for free) then plunge myself even deeper into debt for the fancy piece of paper.

KTC said:

I'm just afraid that the powers that be (Big Brother???) are going to insist one day that I hang up my writing hat. I am a high school drop out. /-:

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The ultimate Powers That Be are the good folks who are willing to open their wallets to buy your book and then recommend it to others. There are no Literary Police that will come around to check your Author License or your list of degrees.

DB

The only problem with the article is a single word in the title -- "Will..."

The answer really is that it can, not that it will. And apparently, from the number of other graduates with book deals, it only rarely can.

Plus the guy brags about himself too much.

Jeff

He had the book deals before he entered the program and before he graduated. So I'd say no.

Little Anonymous Me said:

I absolutely agree. My university's Creative Writing department is highly ranked--and not terribly useful, IMO. There are plenty of people who will never take a writing class and go on to publish great books. And there are many people majoring in CW who will never sell a word. Honing your skills is great, but someone who's dedicated will find a way to do that regardless. Honestly, I'd rather spend my time here (for free) then plunge myself even deeper into debt for the fancy piece of paper.

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This is my take on it as well. I think taking a few classes might be good (I really hated my college writing classes, though), but I think studying something else is more beneficial. Writing skills come from practice and crits and that sort of thing. Taking the classes alone won't make you good enough to publish. It might give you a leg up, but even that depends on the kind of classes you're in. If you're a genre writer in a program that's highly literary and looks down on genre, for instance (as mine did), you might not find it particularly helpful at all.

I also think gaining experiences unrelated to writing are helpful for building writing skills, and then there's the whole what are you going to do as your day job issue. Some people are just so darn good (and lucky) that they'll be able to write full-time from the time they graduate for the rest of their lives. But the vast majority, even among published writers, have a day job of some sort. Writing just isn't a good guaranteed way to pay the bills.

I think people are better served by learning something else and then picking up some classes or workshops on the side if they feel the need for structured class activities.

My degree doesn't write the book. My degree doesn't write the query, or edit my work, or proofread, or spend hours every day typing . . . with bleeding eyes.

I do that. Me.

But I got a lot of knowledge from the degree. That's my personal experience. I'm the last person who is going to say, "Well, my way is the only way and if you NEVER take a class, you are wasting your time." Why? Because you're not me. You're you. Work your method to the best of your ability. Maybe that means you get a degree, maybe it doesn't. Either way, you're writing.

I suspect that the author of the article didn't write the headline.

He does say that he was put in the position of being the 'undeserved poster boy for creative writing courses', which pretty much sets the tone for the rest of the piece. He acknowledges that he had a publishing deal in place before he enrolled (hence the use of 'undeserved') and that the course helped in some ways, but not in others.

His conclusion? My emphasis.

I found two people on the course with whom I shall probably exchange work all my life, I published my first poem, and I have in my possession a puerile screenplay of which I am equally proud and ashamed. All wonderful things, yes, but not worth £30,000 of debt. (Fortunately, I didn't have to worry about interest rates, job placements and how to pay off my loans – a combination of savings and investments helped fund my education, as did the wonderful club that is the Oxford University Poker Society.)

I usually advise people to enrol in creative writing courses if they have the cash and the time. But to take out a loan to finance your studies? Considering the current publishing landscape – where a mid five-figure advance is considered a big deal – should give you an idea of where you might, if you're lucky, find yourself as a graduate. That is, of course, if things work out. If they don't, you could always teach.

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I'm not sure how saying, "I spent £30,000 to get my degree and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" is supposed to be meaningful. Many students get their degrees, try a field and realize it's not working then move into another field.

It's also about being smart. If you're paying £30,000 for a degree w/o having funding, then the purported mistake is on you. You can get through college in most fields w/o having a lot of debt. Especially if you're a graduate student.

Many law students cannot work and actually have to sign contract stating that they won't take a job during their studies. I don't see people saying that a law degree is useless when you want to practice law. (And yes, I'm aware that a degree in creative writing is not "necessary" in the same sense, but if we're going to nitpick every aspect of a degree program and what it MIGHT cost and use that as an important point in some half-thought-out editorial, then it's relevant.)

A book is a product created by a writer and sold by a publisher. If the workmanship on the book is good, then it will sell, if not then it wont. The only advantage of a CW class is that it can help you get a rough edge on your skills, but if you assume that is enough and don't keep polishing you wont sell.

Just like I don't need a degree to tell that the guy in the knife store a block over knows what he's talking about and the guy in the knife store in the mall doesn't (didn't recognize the term lizard tail tang.) A publisher doesn't need to see a degree to tell the same.

CrastersBabies said:

I'm not sure how saying, "I spent £30,000 to get my degree and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" is supposed to be meaningful. Many students get their degrees, try a field and realize it's not working then move into another field.

It's also about being smart. If you're paying £30,000 for a degree w/o having funding, then the purported mistake is on you. You can get through college in most fields w/o having a lot of debt. Especially if you're a graduate student.

Many law students cannot work and actually have to sign contract stating that they won't take a job during their studies. I don't see people saying that a law degree is useless when you want to practice law. (And yes, I'm aware that a degree in creative writing is not "necessary" in the same sense, but if we're going to nitpick every aspect of a degree program and what it MIGHT cost and use that as an important point in some half-thought-out editorial, then it's relevant.)

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I think having a Masters Degree in Creative Writing could possibly help a person break in in a very narrow and local sense, with local agents or publishers around the area of the University, as the professors probably invite influential people from the local area to work with and speak to students. However no one really needs that these days as you can submit to agents and publishers online internationally.
I have a Masters Degree in English Literature which means I would be eligible to apply for the one year post graduate diploma we have here, where I could meet all kinds of famous New Zealand authors and work with them if I was accepted into the course (you have to submit some writing too) however they refuse to offer a part time option so it is wholly impractical for mothers even if it wasn't for the debt thing. I mean i am a published author already, but of course the look of the diploma is exciting and fascinating to me. *sigh*.

KTC said:

I am a high school drop out. /-:

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So am I. So is my very favorite Big 5 Major Award Winning Editor.

On a strictly practical level, any degree you pursue without needing that degree to land the job* is a luxury. Whether the luxury is frivolous or well-spent is, IMO, a matter of the community you create through the program. If your teachers are sympatico and a core group of your fellow students are a potential writing family for life, you may gain a great deal.


* The "job" we're considering here is a book contract, not a teaching gig, which having the degree will likely facilitate. So will being well-published, which the degree may or may not help -- the community being a crucial factor, probably.